IRC log of swd on 2007-07-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:55:55 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #swd
14:55:55 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/07/17-swd-irc
14:56:00 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #swd
14:56:03 [RalphS]
zakim, this is swd
14:56:03 [Zakim]
ok, RalphS; that matches SW_SWD()11:00AM
14:56:06 [RalphS]
zakim, who's on the call?
14:56:06 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P10, [LC]
14:56:14 [RalphS]
Meeting: SWD WG
14:56:19 [aliman]
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14:56:24 [RalphS]
rrsagent, please make record public
14:56:50 [RalphS]
-> http://www.w3.org/2007/07/10-swd-minutes.html previous 2007-07-10
14:57:10 [RalphS]
RalphS has changed the topic to: SWD WG 17 July agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jul/0104.html
14:57:13 [Zakim]
+??P7
14:58:00 [TomB]
Scribe: Clay
14:58:04 [TomB]
scribenick: Clay
14:58:34 [Zakim]
+[LC]
15:00:02 [Zakim]
+??P2
15:00:05 [dlrubin]
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15:00:19 [Elisa]
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15:00:26 [Zakim]
+Ralph
15:00:50 [RalphS]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jul/0104.html
15:01:08 [RalphS]
Chair: Tom
15:01:12 [Zakim]
+[LC]
15:01:32 [Simone]
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15:01:35 [RalphS]
zakim, lc is Justin
15:01:35 [Zakim]
+Justin; got it
15:01:55 [Antoine]
Antoine has joined #swd
15:02:05 [JonP]
JonP has joined #swd
15:02:08 [Zakim]
+Elisa_Kendall
15:02:09 [Zakim]
+CarlosI
15:02:23 [berrueta]
Zakim: CarlosI is me
15:02:23 [RalphS]
zakim, carlos is really Diego
15:02:24 [Zakim]
+Diego; got it
15:02:41 [vit]
vit has joined #swd
15:02:59 [Zakim]
+Antoine_Isaac
15:03:13 [Zakim]
+Jon_Phipps
15:03:35 [JonP]
zakim, Jon_Phipps is me
15:03:35 [Zakim]
+JonP; got it
15:03:43 [Clay]
Topic: Admin
15:03:53 [Zakim]
+??P27
15:04:01 [RalphS]
zakim, ??p27 is Vit
15:04:01 [Zakim]
+Vit; got it
15:04:14 [Clay]
Resolved accept minutes of July 10 telecon
15:04:30 [Clay]
http://www.w3.org/2007/07/10-swd-minutes.html
15:04:43 [Clay]
ACTION: Guus to propose dates in Oct for Amsterdam meeting on SKOS [recorded in [43]http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action01]
15:04:48 [Zakim]
+??P30
15:04:49 [Clay]
--continues
15:04:55 [Simone]
Zakim, ??P30 is me
15:04:55 [Zakim]
+Simone; got it
15:05:19 [Clay]
Topic: SKOS
15:05:28 [Clay]
ACTION: Antoine to raise issue of adding broader/narrower relations in skos [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action03]
15:06:24 [Antoine]
http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/56
15:06:31 [Clay]
--done
15:08:01 [Clay]
ACTION: Guus to move ISSUE-26 forward [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action04].
15:08:04 [Clay]
--continues
15:08:04 [aliman]
q+ to comment on ISSUE 26
15:08:12 [Clay]
ACTION: Guus to post user experience reports for ISSUE-26 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action05]
15:08:14 [Clay]
--continues
15:08:43 [RalphS]
Regrets: Sean
15:09:49 [Clay]
Alistair: re: simple extension proposal. There are two distinct "flavors". Guus assumed one, Antoine the other. A need exists to clearly distinguish those flavors.
15:11:51 [TomB]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jun/0060.html
15:12:56 [TomB]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jun/0078.html
15:13:23 [Clay]
... about interpretaion of skos label and RDF plain literals
15:14:58 [Clay]
... not ready to discuss the SimpleExtension issue, and awaiting Guus' user experience report re: different flavors
15:15:35 [Clay]
ACTION: Alistair to state the difference between the two labels
15:16:25 [aliman]
s/the two labels/the two flavours of the SimpleExtension proposal for issue 26/
15:16:33 [RalphS]
Alistair: in -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jun/0060.html my bijection message I mistakenly referred to issue 33 rather than issue 26
15:16:47 [Clay]
s/the two labels/the two flavours of the SimpleExtension proposal for issue 26/
15:19:32 [Clay]
Proceed with issue 33?
15:19:48 [Clay]
Ed: will grouping constructs be documented somewhere?
15:21:34 [Clay]
Alistair: suggested procedure is to work on 2 wiki drafts: 1) skos primer with grouping constructs overview; 2) skos semantics with formal specifications discussing grouping constructs. Once first drafts exist, the WG considers as whole.
15:22:29 [Clay]
... the 2 drafts are linked
15:23:18 [Clay]
Tom: goal is to have W3C recommendation, one of the docs would be on semantics, as part of a larger package.
15:24:28 [Clay]
Antoine: supports getting consensus on semantics doc
15:24:42 [Clay]
s/getting consensus on semantics doc//
15:24:46 [Clay]
Ed: supports
15:27:05 [Clay]
Alistair: propose resolution for issue 33
15:27:18 [Zakim]
+Ben
15:27:48 [benadida]
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15:28:10 [Clay]
Post 166 is the technical resolution for issue 33
15:29:02 [RalphS]
PROPOSED: ISSUE 33 is resolved with the design in http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SKOS/Semantics/Grouping?action=recall&rev=4
15:31:09 [Clay]
Alistair: I expect us to revisit this issue.
15:31:17 [RalphS]
Alistair: I expect there to be issues with this grouping module but we can raise those as separate issues
15:31:47 [Clay]
Tom: we can resolve for now, but if at a later point we need to reopen this we can. For momentum we should resolve.
15:32:36 [Clay]
Alistair: more specific issues can be addressed separately as needed
15:33:42 [Clay]
RESOLVED: ISSUE 33 is resolved with the design in http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SKOS/Semantics/Grouping?action=recall&rev=4
15:34:57 [Clay]
Jon: how do we mark an issue as resolved? Can mark it manually and move state to "closed".
15:35:16 [RalphS]
rrsagent, pointer?
15:35:16 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2007/07/17-swd-irc#T15-35-16
15:36:22 [Clay]
Tom: Issue 31 Alistair proposed a way forward on BasicLexicalLabelSemantics
15:36:44 [RalphS]
-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/31 issue 31: BasicLexicalLabelSemantics
15:39:12 [Clay]
Alistair: idea of makring triples as optional was the only way at the time I could see that people will want to use SKOS with OWL DL
15:39:29 [Clay]
... also thinking about namespace
15:41:05 [Clay]
... re: skos semantics, OWL flavors, and inference engines
15:41:19 [Clay]
Dan: get DL people involved in discussion
15:44:15 [Clay]
Alistair: the triple is optional in case where you want to stay within DL.
15:44:15 [RalphS]
Alistair: I meant the notation "[DL-optional]" to mean that the triple is optional in the case that the application wants to be within OWL-DL
15:44:27 [Antoine]
Annotation properties must not be used in property axioms. Thus, in OWL DL one cannot define subproperties or domain/range constraints for annotation properties.
15:45:46 [Clay]
Alistair: some triples will take us out of DL into OWL Full. How to mark that? If you want to stay within DL, it's marked as optional?
15:48:38 [Clay]
Tom: AListair is trying to say that if you want to remain within OWL DL you don't use this triple.
15:49:19 [Clay]
Alistair: there could be a subset of SKOS that allows this, akin to OWL Full and OWL DL
15:49:42 [RalphS]
Ralph: we seem to be heading toward having SKOS-FULL and SKOS-DL. (ugh)
15:51:04 [Clay]
Antoine: if we accept the triple then we're in OWL Full
15:51:39 [RalphS]
Antoine: suggest the notation "[OWL-Full]" in place of "[DL-optional]"
15:51:39 [Clay]
Ed: are there use cases for inferencing using OWL Full as opposed to OWL DL
15:53:18 [RalphS]
zakim, who's on the phone?
15:53:18 [Zakim]
On the phone I see TomB, Clay, aliman, edsu, dlrubin, Ralph, Justin, Elisa_Kendall, Diego, Antoine_Isaac, JonP, Vit, Simone, Ben
15:54:06 [Clay]
TOPIC: RDFa
15:54:22 [Clay]
ACTION: Ralph to Discuss possibility of meeting for RDFa in Cambridge [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action02]
15:54:35 [Clay]
--done
15:55:13 [RalphS]
q+ to thank the WG for input on @class / @role / @instanceof
15:56:54 [Zakim]
aliman, you wanted to comment on ISSUE 26
15:56:58 [Zakim]
RalphS, you wanted to thank the WG for input on @class / @role / @instanceof
15:57:15 [Clay]
TOPIC: Recipes
15:57:29 [Clay]
ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to Recipe issue 1.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-swd-minutes.html#action09]
15:57:32 [Clay]
--continues
15:59:31 [Clay]
???: re: .htaccess 'accept header' and header which EXACTLY matches "application/rdf+xml"
16:01:13 [RalphS]
q+
16:03:35 [Clay]
ACTION: Diego to write test to confirm what's broken about recipes as stated re: ISSUE 58
16:03:46 [Zakim]
-dlrubin
16:03:53 [RalphS]
Ralph: issue 58 came up in the context of when the HTTP spec permits multiple Accept: headers
16:03:57 [Clay]
TOPIC: Vocabulary Management
16:04:29 [dlrubin]
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16:04:41 [RalphS]
Ralph: the question for issue 58 is really wether our current recipe permits a comma-separated list of acceptable content types
16:04:54 [Clay]
Elisa: I've thrown in some paragraphs in Wiki. I took Alistair's comment on re-titling section, and have added paragraph on 404 errors.
16:05:15 [Clay]
... possibility to add Vocab Mgmt. on agenda for 10 mins. next week?
16:05:35 [Clay]
... will try to have more substantial text for discussion
16:05:57 [Zakim]
-edsu
16:05:59 [Zakim]
-Justin
16:06:00 [Clay]
zakim, list attendees
16:06:01 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been TomB, Clay, aliman, edsu, Ralph, dlrubin, Justin, Elisa_Kendall, CarlosI, Diego, Antoine_Isaac, JonP, Vit, Simone, Ben
16:06:03 [Zakim]
-Antoine_Isaac
16:06:04 [Zakim]
-aliman
16:06:05 [Zakim]
-Elisa_Kendall
16:06:06 [Zakim]
-Vit
16:06:07 [Zakim]
-Ben
16:06:08 [Zakim]
-JonP
16:06:08 [Antoine]
Antoine has left #swd
16:06:11 [Zakim]
-Diego
16:06:13 [Zakim]
-Simone
16:06:24 [Clay]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
16:06:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/17-swd-minutes.html Clay
16:06:28 [Zakim]
-TomB
16:07:01 [Zakim]
-Ralph
16:07:03 [Zakim]
-Clay
16:07:03 [Zakim]
SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended
16:07:04 [Zakim]
Attendees were TomB, Clay, aliman, edsu, Ralph, dlrubin, Justin, Elisa_Kendall, CarlosI, Diego, Antoine_Isaac, JonP, Vit, Simone, Ben
16:09:54 [benadida]
benadida has left #swd
16:20:55 [RalphS]
zakim, bye
16:20:55 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #swd
16:20:59 [RalphS]
rrsagent, bye
16:20:59 [RRSAgent]
I see 8 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/17-swd-actions.rdf :
16:20:59 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Guus to propose dates in Oct for Amsterdam meeting on SKOS [recorded in [43]http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action01] [1]
16:20:59 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/17-swd-irc#T15-04-43
16:20:59 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Antoine to raise issue of adding broader/narrower relations in skos [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action03] [2]
16:20:59 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/17-swd-irc#T15-05-28
16:20:59 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Guus to move ISSUE-26 forward [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action04]. [3]
16:20:59 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/17-swd-irc#T15-08-01
16:20:59 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Guus to post user experience reports for ISSUE-26 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action05] [4]
16:20:59 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/17-swd-irc#T15-08-12
16:20:59 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Alistair to state the difference between the two labels [5]
16:20:59 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/17-swd-irc#T15-15-35
16:20:59 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ralph to Discuss possibility of meeting for RDFa in Cambridge [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action02] [6]
16:20:59 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/17-swd-irc#T15-54-22
16:20:59 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to Recipe issue 1.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-swd-minutes.html#action09] [7]
16:20:59 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/17-swd-irc#T15-57-29
16:20:59 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Diego to write test to confirm what's broken about recipes as stated re: ISSUE 58 [8]
16:20:59 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/17-swd-irc#T16-03-35