18:02:55 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sml
18:02:55 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-sml-irc
18:02:57 <trackbot-ng> RRSAgent, make logs public
18:02:57 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sml
18:02:59 <trackbot-ng> Zakim, this will be SMLWG
18:02:59 <Zakim> ok, trackbot-ng, I see XML_SMLWG()2:00PM already started
18:03:01 <trackbot-ng> Meeting: Service Modeling Language Working Group Teleconference
18:03:03 <trackbot-ng> Date: 12 July 2007
18:03:07 <Zakim> +Plh
18:03:49 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
18:05:31 <Bassam> Bassam has joined #sml
18:05:57 <MSM> zakim, please call MSM-Office
18:05:57 <Zakim> ok, MSM; the call is being made
18:05:59 <Zakim> +MSM
18:06:05 <plh> zakim, mute ??p9
18:06:05 <Zakim> ??P9 should now be muted
18:06:22 <plh> zakim, unmute ??p9
18:06:22 <Zakim> ??P9 should no longer be muted
18:06:30 <plh> zakim, aaaa is Kirk
18:06:30 <Zakim> +Kirk; got it
18:06:30 <Kirk> zakim, aaaa is Kirk
18:06:31 <Zakim> sorry, Kirk, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
18:06:57 <johnarwe> scribe: kirk
18:06:58 <Kirk> scribe: Kirk
18:07:15 <Brian> Brian has joined #sml
18:07:27 <MSM> MSM has changed the topic to: SML WG call, agenda at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sml/2007Jul/0043.html
18:07:32 <Kirk> meeting: XMLSML_WG
18:08:24 <Kirk> regrets: Paul, Zulah
18:08:24 <plh> zakim, p9 is Brian
18:08:24 <Zakim> sorry, plh, I do not recognize a party named 'p9'
18:08:28 <plh> zakim, ??p9 is Brian
18:08:28 <Zakim> +Brian; got it
18:08:46 <johnarwe> on the phone: john, kirk, philippe, ginny, jim, msm, bassam, brian
18:09:31 <Kirk> absent: Marv, Milan
18:10:39 <Kirk> John introduces Kumar Pandit, who will assume Bassam's editors role.
18:10:55 <Kirk> TOPIC: Approval of Minutes
18:11:16 <Kirk> No updates to either set of minutes.
18:11:19 <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
18:11:38 <Kirk> ...Both set of minutes are approved
18:12:04 <Kirk> zakim, [Microsoft.a] is Kumar
18:12:04 <Zakim> +Kumar; got it
18:13:00 <Kirk> TOPIC: Review of Action Items
18:15:26 <Kirk> Action 88 - MSM communicate dates Oct 15, 16, 17; Registation Page set up
18:16:25 <Kirk> ...Action to be Closed 
18:17:17 <Kirk> Action 103 - John was unable to contact Milan.  Additional contacts needed at Intel to see what is going on.
18:17:32 <Kirk> Action 93 - Philippe, will be discussed today
18:17:52 <Kirk> Action 97 - Philippe, no action
18:18:05 <Kirk> MSM will work on his action this weekend
18:18:41 <Kirk> Action 63 - James has inititated action (email). Not a bugzilla
18:19:18 <Kirk> Bassam, should edit action items regarding dates on his action items.
18:20:20 <Kirk> Discussion of Marv's Action items.  This is an editor's action for all editors. 
18:20:40 <Kirk> ...Ginny: Editors will take care of this.
18:21:10 <Kirk> ...Ginny: Editors will come back to group on this.
18:21:31 <Kirk> ...Marv should close this Action item.
18:22:06 <Kirk> TOPIC: Bugs and Issues
18:22:45 <Kirk> Brian has sent out consolidated list
18:23:59 <Kirk> Bugs on which there are disagreement:
18:27:39 <Kirk> 4793: Constraints on ref type attribute (section 3.4): 
18:28:09 <Kumar> Kumar has joined #sml
18:29:04 <Kirk> ...Resolution: P1
18:29:29 <Kirk> Columns: B is John, C is Ginny, D is Kirk
18:31:01 <Kirk> 4795: Update 3.4.2.2 (regarding null references)
18:31:24 <Brian> quit
18:31:46 <Zakim> -Brian
18:33:07 <Zakim> +Sandy
18:36:04 <Kirk> ...Resolution: P1
18:37:37 <Kirk> 4801: Resolution: P1
18:38:03 <Kirk> 4802: John, syntax change that does not affect meaning
18:38:13 <Kirk> ...Resolution: P1
18:38:22 <plh> John, the csv table is at http://www.w3.org/2007/07/sml-issues.html
18:39:18 <Kirk> 4803: Need to refer to Schematron spec
18:40:08 <Kirk> ...Resolution: P1
18:41:07 <Kirk> 4807: Clarify section 5
18:41:33 <Kirk> ...Resolution: P1
18:42:35 <Kirk> 4818: Reword last sentence 3.2
18:43:07 <Kirk> ...Resolution: P1
18:43:33 <johnarwe> s/4818/4817/
18:44:10 <Kirk> 4818: Rewording of 3.2
18:45:47 <Kirk> ...Note: this is in SML-IF
18:46:09 <Kirk> ...Resolution: FPWD
18:48:47 <Kirk> 4819: Append 3.3.2.  "Floor/Ceiling" issue.  Phrase is contrary to the idea how schemes are defined
18:48:56 <Kirk> ...Resolution: P1
18:50:48 <Kirk> 4823: definition of unresolved reference.  Specification of issue seems to be incomplete.  No indication of what the replacement should use.
18:51:11 <Kirk> ...Editors need to make a proposal on this.
18:51:28 <Kirk> ...Resolution: P1
18:52:27 <Kirk> 4825: deref() against multiple references
18:53:31 <Kirk> ...Resolution: P1
18:54:18 <Kirk> 4826: Resolution: P1
18:54:57 <Kirk> 4827: Resolution: P1
18:55:51 <MSM> 4800 fp
18:55:54 <MSM> 4801 p1
18:56:26 <Kirk> Ginny will change issue off line
18:56:46 <MSM> 4811 - leave alone
18:56:52 <MSM> 4812 13 16 17 fpwd
18:56:55 <MSM> 4834 p1
18:57:21 <Kirk> TOPIC: IRIs
18:58:28 <johnarwe> 4632         nor       P2       Linu       cmsmcq@w3.org       NEW              Use of IRIs
18:58:38 <Kirk> Philippe reports: IRI support is not in Java 6.  Need to deal with non-ASCI characters
18:59:14 <Kirk> ...Issue: What happens when you pass IRI for URI?
19:02:22 <johnarwe> s/ASCI/ASCII/
19:03:16 <Kirk> ...Original issue: Switch from URI to IRI in specification?
19:03:26 <MSM> q+ to ask how big an implementation burden we are talking about ...
19:05:49 <MSM> q-
19:08:26 <Kirk> Discussion proceeds between Philippe and Bassam regarding size and cost of project to implement IRI.
19:08:34 <MSM> [For what it's worth, http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/java/net/URI.html describes the java.net.URI class as accepting arbitrary Unicode characters and doing the percent escaping properly in the path]
19:10:51 <MSM> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punycode
19:11:17 <MSM> Wikipedia make the punycode algorithm seem reassuringly simple to implement as a string-string transform
19:16:52 <Kirk> Bassam: Is this right time for us to do this?  Should it be requirement?  (Future implementations would have to anticipate future Java implementations.)
19:17:02 <plh> http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3987.txt
19:19:55 <Kirk> Bassam: Critical concern in SML is the comparison of URIs / IRIs.
19:23:51 <Kirk> Bassam is Checking current implementation of URI creation algorithm for handling non-ASCII escaped character
19:24:42 <Kirk> ACTION; Philippe to Check situation in Java when creating URI whith non-ASCII character.
19:25:08 <johnarwe> ACTION  Philippe to Check situation in Java when creating URI whith non-ASCII character.
19:25:23 <johnarwe> ACTION: Philippe to Check situation in Java when creating URI whith non-ASCII character.
19:25:24 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-105 - Check situation in Java when creating URI whith non-ASCII character. [on Philippe Le Hégaret - due 2007-07-19].
19:26:23 <Sandy> Sandy has joined #sml
19:26:24 <Bassam>         static void Main(string[] args)
19:26:24 <Bassam>         {
19:26:24 <Bassam>             Uri uriA = new Uri("http://www.??.com");
19:26:24 <Bassam>             Uri uriB = new Uri("http://www.??.com");
19:26:24 <Bassam>             bool doesCompare = uriA.Equals(uriB);
19:26:25 <Bassam>         }
19:26:49 <Bassam> ?? non-ASCII
19:26:58 <Kirk> Bassam: .NET does seem to compare correctly. 
19:27:50 <MSM> Here's an interesting example.
19:28:02 <MSM> If you use www.zürich.com
19:28:09 <MSM> and compare to IDN representation www.xn--zrich-kva.com
19:28:20 <MSM> or to punycode www.zrich.com-0ob
19:28:31 <MSM> or to utf-7 www.z+APw-rich.com
19:28:54 <Zakim> -Kumar
19:29:04 <Kirk> Bassam: If this is what is expected for support of IRI, then no addition is required. 
19:29:27 <plh> As an example,
19:29:27 <plh>    "http://r&#xE9;sum&#xE9;.example.org" may be considered equivalent to "http://xn--rsum-bpad.example.org".
19:31:28 <Bassam>         static void Main(string[] args)
19:31:28 <Bassam>         {
19:31:28 <Bassam>             Uri uriA = new Uri("www.zürich.com");
19:31:28 <Bassam>             Uri uriB = new Uri("www.xn--zrich-kva.com");
19:31:29 <Bassam>             bool doesCompare = uriA.Equals(uriB);
19:31:31 <Bassam>         }
19:31:33 <Bassam>         static void Main(string[] args)
19:31:35 <Bassam>         {
19:31:37 <Bassam>             Uri uriA = new Uri("www.zürich.com");
19:31:39 <Bassam>             Uri uriB = new Uri("www.xn--zrich-kva.com");
19:31:41 <Bassam>             bool doesCompare = uriA.Equals(uriB);
19:31:43 <Bassam>         }
19:31:57 <Bassam> uriA throws an "invalid URI format" exception
19:32:09 <johnarwe> Kirk loses connection to internet, will try and reconnect
19:32:43 <johnarwe> TOPIC: definitions, consumers, producers - related to email discussion
19:33:24 <Bassam> Bassam: .NETFX does NOT support IRI in the form of "www.zürich.com" and "www.xn--zrich-kva.com". 
19:33:50 <Jim> Part 1: What is considered an SML consumer?
19:33:51 <Bassam> Bassam: such IRI throw an "invalid URI format" exception
19:34:06 <johnarwe> how much to align with TAG Note http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/versioning 
19:34:54 <plh> Bassam, and if you add "http://" ?
19:35:11 <plh> you give a domain name to the Uri class, not a full addresss...
19:35:26 <ginny> I think John's definition of SML consumer as: an "SML consumer" ... is a consumer of 1/more SML documents that processes those document(s) using, in whole or part, semantics defined by SML. 
19:35:50 <Kirk> Kirk has joined #sml
19:35:53 <ginny> is a simple and adequate definition.
19:36:28 <Kirk> TOPIC: Definition of Consumer, Producer, Understand
19:39:30 <Kirk> Ginny: What is point of defining "SML Consumer"?
19:40:47 <Kirk> Issue - In SML-IF there are normative requirements placed on SML consumers and producers (section 3.1)
19:41:20 <Kirk> John: If this is in SML-IF, it does not put requirements on SML.
19:42:15 <Kirk> Jim: Issue is what does it mean to understand a model?
19:43:51 <Kirk> John: XSLT processor consumes SML, but does not treat it as an SML document.  It treats the document simply in terms of the XML that it "understands".
19:44:45 <Kirk> Ginny: Agrees with John's definition, but we can't further.
19:46:23 <Kirk> MSM: Also agrees.
19:51:51 <Kirk> General agreement (by silence) of leaving this discussion in SML-IF rather than moving it to SML spec.
19:51:53 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
19:52:29 <Kirk> Jim: Part two of the issue: Should we comment to the TAG regarding use of terminology?
19:54:31 <Kirk> John: Comment that the "simplified" diagram seems inconsistent; also, the acts of consumption and production don't imply anything about what is understood.
19:55:40 <Kirk> Jim:  Feeling is that unless someone feels strongly enough "to carry the torch", let it go.
19:56:15 <Kirk> ...John: WG does not feel strongly enough to carry this forward with the TAG.
19:56:47 <Kirk> Meeting Adjourns: 3:56 ET
19:57:12 <Kirk> rrsagent, draft minutes
19:57:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-sml-minutes.html Kirk
19:57:37 <ginny> ginny has left #sml
19:57:46 <Zakim> -Jim
19:57:47 <Zakim> -ginny
19:57:49 <Zakim> -Sandy
19:57:51 <Zakim> -Kirk
19:58:44 <Kirk> rssagent, generate minutes
20:07:16 <Zakim> -Plh
20:07:18 <Zakim> -john
20:07:27 <Zakim> -MSM
20:07:28 <Zakim> XML_SMLWG()2:00PM has ended
20:07:30 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.909.842.aaaa, john, ginny, Jim, Plh, [Microsoft], MSM, Kirk, Brian, Kumar, Sandy
20:07:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-sml-minutes.html plh
20:07:40 <plh> rrsagent, bye
20:07:40 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-sml-actions.rdf :
20:07:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Philippe to Check situation in Java when creating URI whith non-ASCII character. [1]
20:07:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-sml-irc#T19-25-23
20:07:43 <plh> zakim, bye
20:07:43 <Zakim> Zakim has left #sml