14:52:13 RRSAgent has joined #forms 14:52:13 logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-forms-irc 14:52:18 rrsagent, make log public 14:52:22 Chair: John 14:52:42 Meeting: Weekly Forms WG Teleconference 14:53:35 Schnitz has joined #forms 14:53:40 hi 14:55:13 jturner has joined #forms 14:58:18 John_Boyer has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2007Jul/0041.html 14:58:27 HTML_Forms()11:00AM has now started 14:58:34 +John_Boyer 14:58:51 + +49.308.322.aaaa 14:59:00 Roger has joined #forms 14:59:25 zakim, code? 14:59:25 the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Schnitz 14:59:26 zakim, aaaa is me 14:59:27 +jturner; got it 14:59:46 +[IBM] 14:59:50 wellsk has joined #forms 15:00:15 zakim, [ is wellsk 15:00:15 +wellsk; got it 15:00:34 Rafael has joined #forms 15:01:12 +??P26 15:01:20 zakim, ??p26 is me 15:01:32 zakim, mute me 15:01:35 zakim, mute me 15:01:38 +Schnitz; got it 15:01:40 +[IBM] 15:01:56 Schnitz should now be muted 15:02:02 jturner should now be muted 15:02:22 + +091211aabb 15:02:35 zakim, aabb is Roger 15:02:51 Charlie has joined #forms 15:02:54 +Roger; got it 15:02:59 zakim, who is on? 15:03:05 Nick has joined #Forms 15:03:10 zakim, who is here? 15:03:15 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2007Jul/0041.html 15:03:16 zakim, Roger has Rafael 15:03:21 (Zakim is very slow today) 15:03:22 I don't understand your question, Charlie. 15:03:30 On the phone I see John_Boyer, jturner (muted), wellsk, Schnitz (muted), [IBM], Roger 15:03:36 zakim, [IBM] is Charlie 15:03:40 * thanks, steven 15:03:43 +Rafael; got it 15:04:00 On IRC I see Nick, Charlie, Rafael, wellsk, Roger, jturner, Schnitz, RRSAgent, Zakim, John_Boyer, markbirbeck, Steven 15:04:16 +Charlie; got it 15:04:35 joining in just a moment 15:05:02 zakim, dial steven-617 15:05:10 +Nick_van_den_Bleeken 15:05:17 q+ to ask who has implemented inputmode 15:05:30 ok, Steven; the call is being made 15:05:32 +Steven 15:06:39 Blake has joined #forms 15:06:40 lars has joined #forms 15:07:48 + +1.541.754.aacc 15:08:00 zakim, aacc is me 15:08:00 +Blake; got it 15:08:13 + +6aadd 15:08:27 zakim, I am +6aa 15:08:27 +lars; got it 15:08:36 +markbirbeck 15:08:38 zakim, mute me 15:08:38 lars should now be muted 15:08:44 zakim, mute me 15:08:46 Blake should now be muted 15:08:52 zakim, who is here? 15:08:52 On the phone I see John_Boyer, jturner (muted), wellsk, Schnitz (muted), Charlie, Roger, Nick_van_den_Bleeken (muted), Steven, Blake (muted), lars (muted), markbirbeck 15:08:54 zakim, unmute me 15:08:56 Roger has Rafael 15:08:57 On IRC I see lars, Blake, Nick, Charlie, Rafael, wellsk, Roger, jturner, Schnitz, RRSAgent, Zakim, John_Boyer, markbirbeck, Steven 15:08:59 +??P32 15:09:00 jturner should no longer be muted 15:09:21 rrsagent, make minutes 15:09:21 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-forms-minutes.html Steven 15:09:40 I hear a lot of noise on the line, anyone else having problems? 15:09:43 ebruchez has joined #forms 15:09:57 zakim, who is on the phone 15:09:57 I don't understand 'who is on the phone', ebruchez 15:10:11 zakim, unmute me 15:10:11 Schnitz should no longer be muted 15:10:13 Meeting: Forms WG Weekly Meeting 15:10:20 CHair: John 15:10:28 Scribe: jturner 15:10:32 s/CH/Ch/ 15:10:48 zakim, who's here 15:10:48 ebruchez, you need to end that query with '?' 15:10:53 zakim, who's here? 15:10:53 On the phone I see John_Boyer, jturner, wellsk, Schnitz, Charlie, Roger, Nick_van_den_Bleeken (muted), Steven, Blake (muted), lars (muted), markbirbeck, ??P32 15:10:56 Roger has Rafael 15:10:57 On IRC I see ebruchez, lars, Blake, Nick, Charlie, Rafael, wellsk, Roger, jturner, Schnitz, RRSAgent, Zakim, John_Boyer, markbirbeck, Steven 15:11:06 zakim, ??P32 is ebruchez 15:11:06 +ebruchez; got it 15:11:22 zakim, mute me 15:11:22 Schnitz should now be muted 15:11:40 Topic: inputmode implementation 15:12:08 Regrets: MarkS 15:12:33 we don't 15:12:45 Steven: we're adding inputmode to xhtml 1.1 but need implementer reports for it to stay 15:12:55 Mark: we don't have it but are looking into it 15:13:11 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2007Jul/0041.html 15:13:26 Topic: coming calls 15:13:33 John: Please check soon 15:13:50 -ebruchez 15:14:08 John: Steven will chair when I am unavail. If we have calls 15:14:18 John_Boyer has joined #forms 15:14:21 +[IPcaller] 15:14:37 zakim, [IPcaller is ebruchez 15:14:37 +ebruchez; got it 15:15:05 topic: Upcoming FtF 15:15:17 John: do we have a page for the FtF? 15:15:32 zakim, mute me 15:15:32 jturner should now be muted 15:15:35 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2007/09/ftf/ 15:16:29 unl has joined #forms 15:16:29 John_Boyer has joined #forms 15:16:34 Hi uli 15:16:39 zakim, mute me 15:16:39 markbirbeck should now be muted 15:17:04 Topic: XForms 1.0 3rd Ed. 15:17:10 zakim, unmute me 15:17:10 markbirbeck should no longer be muted 15:17:12 John: largely ready 15:17:23 John: need to change link to test suite 15:17:44 John: simple, will be done fast, second bit, www-forms-editor we have an email to request the version attribute 15:18:51 yep 15:18:57 scribe: schnitz 15:19:03 scribe: Schnitz 15:19:16 Resolution: add verison attribute to XHTML 1.0 Third Ed. 15:19:24 -lars 15:19:25 s/verison/version 15:19:44 bad zakim 15:19:47 s/XHTML/XForms 15:19:57 Steven: do we have an errata page for Third Ed.? 15:20:07 John: That is right, we need to create one 15:20:14 +Svante 15:20:23 Action: John to add version attribute to XForms 1.0 Third Edition 15:20:36 zakim, I am svante 15:20:36 ok, lars, I now associate you with Svante 15:20:39 Action: John to start an errata page for XForms 1.0 3rd Ed. 15:20:49 John: Moving on to XForms 1.1... 15:20:56 zakim, mute me 15:20:56 Svante should now be muted 15:21:01 Zakim, code? 15:21:01 the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Schnitz 15:21:47 John: There is one issue (103?105?... Steve Speicher)... there actually two issues... I would like to split them 15:22:12 John: I can't forward it, its deleted in my mailbox 15:22:25 + +49.336.293.aaee 15:22:55 John: Steven, if I go into the archive, can I reply and change the "to" line, will Shane's system understand? 15:23:25 Action: Steven to find that message and to sent it twice 15:23:34 s/sent/send 15:23:46 John: its under misc 15:23:54 (looking for message) 15:24:01 issue found 15:24:05 number 5? 15:24:33 ok number 5 to be trashed once splitted 15:24:45 Topic: XForms at the XML conference 15:25:18 John: The announcement went out, I will like to correct, do not simply reply, but reply-all, so everyone sees the comments 15:25:25 s/will/would 15:25:38 sure 15:26:08 John: get your act together and submit rather sooner than later :-) 15:26:16 Topic: XForms Transitional 15:26:21 John: Charter confusion 15:26:35 John: XForms 1.1., XForms-T, XHTML 2.0 as deliverables 15:26:54 John: We thought that XForms 1.2 was seperate from XForms-T 15:27:12 John: XForms 1.2 is still undefined in terms of milestones 15:27:35 John: Its not clear to me what we can do in an XForms 1.2 other than supporting XForms-T 15:27:55 John: And if we don't start on XForms 2, we miss these milestones 15:28:03 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/ 15:28:35 John: 1st Public WD end of this year, LC next year 15:28:49 John: 6 Months from 1st WD to LC is unrealistic 15:29:11 John: I am proposing that XForms-T *is* XForms 1.2 15:30:18 Markbirbeck: Lots of things I would like see in XForms-T, but, the naming isn't right, therefore I have a hard time putting time into it, and 2), the relationship with the HTML-WG is very draining 15:30:52 Markbirbeck: However, that simplification area is important, but the current context is too difficult, what do others think about? 15:30:57 zakim, unmute me 15:30:57 Schnitz should no longer be muted 15:31:45 unl has joined #forms 15:32:01 -Roger 15:32:13 Schnitz, +1 with Markbirbeck 15:32:22 zakim, mute me 15:32:22 Schnitz should now be muted 15:33:02 John: the task force is about mapping whatever we have into what is being done in the HTML WG, they might do that or not, we should make technical decisions based on that, though 15:33:47 John: Custom controls... 15:33:55 Markbirbeck: is that 2.0 or 1.2? 15:34:05 +??P7 15:34:16 zakim, ??p7 is Roger 15:34:16 +Roger; got it 15:34:23 John: IF custom controls can be combined with something that is simple to author, then its a 1.2 issue, IMO 15:34:29 zakim, Roger has Rafael 15:34:29 +Rafael; got it 15:35:05 Markbirbeck: I can offer time in the context that Schnitz and John proposed... 15:35:18 yep 15:35:48 If that is the course I can make some time free for that too 15:36:05 Action: Editorial Ownership of the Former XForms Transitional work goes to Mark Birbeck and Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer 15:36:19 Resolution: XForms Transitional will be merged with XForms 1.2 15:36:19 (if it is simplification, custom controls,..) 15:36:42 yes, please nick! 15:36:58 can do, with some help 15:37:05 great! 15:37:18 i would give a little help too if necessary 15:37:26 Resolution: Co-editors of XForms 1.2, former XForms Transitional, are Mark Birbeck, Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer and Nick Van Den Bleeken 15:37:57 jturner, ok, good to know... 15:38:41 John: anything with the Joint Task Force seemed to be things we would have to do to XForms, instead of the HTML side making changing 15:38:59 rrsagent, make minutes 15:38:59 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-forms-minutes.html Steven 15:39:15 Markbirbeck: The problem already is what we mean by architectural consistency... 15:39:49 Markbirbeck: For us, MVC is a core idea here, and they dispute that, but still think its architecturally consistent, which of course won't make sense 15:40:12 :-) 15:40:34 zakim appears to be emotional as well, dropped me again 15:40:39 John: would be possible for the editors for to be also the TF members? 15:40:45 Schnitz, +1 15:40:55 Markbirbeck: are there any meetings plans yet 15:40:57 -Svante 15:41:06 John: no, we need members, they will then define communication 15:41:14 +Svante 15:41:26 Markbirbeck, +1 15:41:28 zakim, Svante is lars 15:41:28 +lars; got it 15:41:36 Thank you all 15:41:45 Nick_van_den_Bleeken, +1 15:41:48 zakim, mute me 15:41:48 lars should now be muted 15:41:48 John: thank you 15:42:33 Resolution: The tree current co-editors of XForms 1.2, formerly XForms Transitional, will also be the three members of the Joint Forms TF from the Forms WG side 15:42:46 Topic: Progress on Action items 15:43:03 John: Everyone, please check with the action item list, and please make progress on it hits week 15:43:10 s/hits/this 15:43:16 zakim, mute me 15:43:16 Steven should now be muted 15:43:37 (John explains details in handling the Action item lists) 15:43:56 Tell me if you need an account 15:44:09 s/tree/three 15:44:37 Topic: LC issues 15:45:05 Topic: Issue 151, identical 106 15:45:19 John: get rid of 151? 15:45:29 John: Steven, can you look at this? 15:45:52 ack me 15:45:54 Steven, you wanted to ask who has implemented inputmode 15:46:16 Action: Steven to look whether Issue 151 and Issue 106 are identical, and if so, get rid of Issue 151 15:46:44 Topic: Removing the notion of homogeneous collection 15:46:49 http://htmlwg.mn.aptest.com/cgi-bin/xforms-issues/UI?id=26;user=guest;statetype=1;upostype=-1;changetype=-1;restype=-1 15:47:28 John: we already agreed to rewriting text of getting rid of homogeneous collection 15:47:37 John: So we can just go ahead here 15:48:15 John: We need an action to get rid of homogeneous collection (checking)? 15:48:26 ... investigating 15:48:35 There is an old action item on Mark 15:48:42 John: thats defunct 15:48:48 John: we need a new action item 15:49:06 zakim unmute me 15:49:21 Action: Eliminate Wording on homogeneous collection on repeat, assigned to Ulrich Nicolas Lisse 15:49:31 zakim, mute me 15:49:31 lars was already muted, lars 15:49:33 John: moving on... 15:49:43 Topic: 3 editorial issues... 15:49:54 John: simple run-by 15:49:57 zakim, mute me 15:49:57 sorry, unl, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you 15:50:01 Issue 91? 15:50:11 (checking) 15:50:29 http://htmlwg.mn.aptest.com/cgi-bin/xforms-issues/Multi-issue?id=91;user=guest;selectid=91;statetype=-1;upostype=-1;changetype=-1;restype=-1 15:50:56 Topic: Issue 91, bunch of Typos, by Uli 15:51:05 John: Any objection me just going forward? 15:51:16 COnmfirmed that issue 151 was a reply to 106 15:51:20 I have merged them 15:51:22 Resolution: John to follow as proposed in Issue 91 15:51:29 Action: John to address Issue 91 15:51:33 http://htmlwg.mn.aptest.com/cgi-bin/xforms-issues/Model?id=127;user=guest;statetype=1;upostype=-1;changetype=-1;restype=-1 15:51:39 Topic: Issue 127 15:52:41 john, issue 91 is in Multi-issue, not in Controls 15:52:41 Containing *or compound* document profile to add foreign namespace decl. 15:52:47 John: ok 15:53:06 Resolution: Issue 127 accepted 15:53:22 Action: John to move forward with Issue 127 as proposed by Issue 127 15:53:44 http://htmlwg.mn.aptest.com/cgi-bin/xforms-issues/UI?id=23;user=guest;statetype=-1;upostype=-1;changetype=-1;restype=-1 15:53:49 Topic: Issue 23 15:54:00 John: issue for me 15:54:41 (John reading wording) 15:54:59 John: the wording is misleading 15:55:21 John: information is redundant 15:56:07 John: I propose to shoot that Paragraph 15:56:10 sounds good 15:56:28 John: any objection 15:56:33 No objection 15:56:45 Action: John to address Issue 23 15:57:26 http://htmlwg.mn.aptest.com/cgi-bin/xforms-issues/Submission?id=103;user=guest;statetype=4;upostype=-1;changetype=-1;restype=-1 15:57:50 Topic: Issue from S. Speicher 103, related to immediately following from S. Pemberton 15:58:12 John: Steve says he miss a normative ref to what the HTTP verb actually is 15:58:36 John: It turns out that HTTP verb is used quite a bit 15:58:51 John: But we don't say that in our spec 15:59:14 John: Steven, had similar problems to Steve 15:59:23 Topic: Is "HTTP verb 15:59:39 intuitive or misleading... 16:00:15 Steven: we need to define it properly 16:00:20 John: +1 16:01:31 John: I really think that a lot of problems will be cleared up when under submission options that table should probably say what the default submission verb is to be and show a default string 16:01:40 It would be clearer if the fourth column of the submission options table werernentitled "Default Submission Verb" and then the table entries were of the formrn"POST" (HTTP POST or equivalent). 16:02:07 John: I propose wording there... 16:02:18 John: Resolution? 16:02:23 Any objections? 16:02:38 No, fine 16:03:03 Steven: we should also add a sentence if free-floating text what we me mean by verb 16:03:09 John: Yes, 1+ 16:03:23 http 1.1 sect 5.1 request line / 5.1.1 method would be the reference 16:04:01 John: Yes, its about not resolving the final wording now, but that we resolve that we assign an action to come up with wording at those places for this 16:04:18 +1 16:04:30 Time is up 16:04:58 zakim, unmute me 16:04:58 lars should no longer be muted 16:05:05 John: We need text similar how SOAP and WSDL is connecting its abstract concept to HTTP 16:06:16 Markbirbeck: We could use method as the element name 16:06:23 Lars: I guess its ok 16:06:38 John: please continue on the mailing list... 16:06:44 zakim, unmute me 16:06:44 Schnitz should no longer be muted 16:06:50 Steven: please kick off... 16:06:55 -Charlie 16:06:55 bye 16:06:56 -lars 16:06:57 -Steven 16:06:59 -markbirbeck 16:07:00 -Blake 16:07:01 - +49.336.293.aaee 16:07:02 -John_Boyer 16:07:03 -wellsk 16:07:05 -ebruchez 16:07:06 -jturner 16:07:07 -Nick_van_den_Bleeken 16:07:18 Action: John to kick off on mailing list discussion on Issue 103 16:07:22 wellsk has left #forms 16:07:32 -Schnitz 16:07:59 quit 16:08:09 Blake has left #forms 16:08:15 zakim, +49.336.293.aaee was me 16:08:15 I don't understand '+49.336.293.aaee was me', unl 16:08:23 John_Boyer, thanks, I'll head off... r u and Steven fine with generating minutes of this? 16:08:41 -Roger 16:08:42 HTML_Forms()11:00AM has ended 16:08:43 yes 16:08:44 Attendees were John_Boyer, +49.308.322.aaaa, jturner, wellsk, Schnitz, +091211aabb, Rafael, Charlie, Nick_van_den_Bleeken, Steven, +1.541.754.aacc, Blake, +6aadd, lars, 16:08:46 ... markbirbeck, ebruchez, [IPcaller], +49.336.293.aaee 16:08:50 ok, bye 16:09:00 rrsagent, make minutes 16:09:00 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-forms-minutes.html John_Boyer 16:09:10 rrsagent, bye 16:09:10 I see 10 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-forms-actions.rdf : 16:09:10 ACTION: John to add version attribute to XForms 1.0 Third Edition [1] 16:09:10 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-forms-irc#T15-20-23 16:09:10 ACTION: John to start an errata page for XForms 1.0 3rd Ed. [2] 16:09:10 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-forms-irc#T15-20-39 16:09:10 ACTION: Steven to find that message and to sent it twice [3] 16:09:10 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-forms-irc#T15-23-25 16:09:10 ACTION: Editorial Ownership of the Former XForms Transitional work goes to Mark Birbeck and Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer [4] 16:09:10 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-forms-irc#T15-36-05 16:09:10 ACTION: Steven to look whether Issue 151 and Issue 106 are identical, and if so, get rid of Issue 151 [5] 16:09:10 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-forms-irc#T15-46-16 16:09:10 ACTION: Eliminate Wording on homogeneous collection on repeat, assigned to Ulrich Nicolas Lisse [6] 16:09:10 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-forms-irc#T15-49-21 16:09:10 ACTION: John to address Issue 91 [7] 16:09:10 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-forms-irc#T15-51-29 16:09:10 ACTION: John to move forward with Issue 127 as proposed by Issue 127 [8] 16:09:10 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-forms-irc#T15-53-22 16:09:10 ACTION: John to address Issue 23 [9] 16:09:10 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-forms-irc#T15-56-45 16:09:10 ACTION: John to kick off on mailing list discussion on Issue 103 [10] 16:09:10 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-forms-irc#T16-07-18