13:49:00 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #er
13:49:00 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-er-irc
13:49:05 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #er
13:49:11 <shadi> zakim, this will be ERT
13:49:11 <Zakim> ok, shadi; I see WAI_ERTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
13:49:17 <shadi> meeting: ERT WG
13:49:21 <shadi> chair: Shadi
13:49:26 <shadi> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2007Jul/0015.html
13:49:47 <shadi> agenda+ Test mode definitions
13:50:00 <shadi> agenda+ Review the plan for publishing EARL 1.0 Guide
13:50:09 <shadi> agemda+ Review the plan for publishing Pointer Methods in RDF
13:50:19 <shadi> agenda+ Review the plan for publishing Pointer Methods in RDF
13:50:24 <shadi> agenda+ Revised simplified approach for HTTP-in-RDF
13:54:27 <JR> JR has joined #er
13:56:54 <drooks> drooks has joined #er
13:58:28 <Zakim> WAI_ERTWG()10:00AM has now started
13:58:38 <Zakim> +Shadi
13:58:42 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:58:44 <Zakim> + +0175356aaaa
13:59:02 <JR> zakim, [IPcaller] is really JR
13:59:02 <Zakim> +JR; got it
13:59:16 <shadi> zakim, aaaa is really David
13:59:16 <Zakim> +David; got it
14:01:23 <CarlosV> CarlosV has joined #er
14:01:56 <CarlosI> CarlosI has joined #er
14:02:33 <Zakim> +Klaus/Johannes/Thomas
14:02:52 <Zakim> +Klaus/Johannes/Thomas.a
14:02:54 <JohannesK> JohannesK has joined #er
14:03:04 <shadi> zakim, klaus is really Johannes
14:03:04 <Zakim> sorry, shadi, I do not recognize a party named 'klaus'
14:03:15 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:03:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see Shadi, JR, David, Klaus/Johannes/Thomas, Klaus/Johannes/Thomas.a
14:03:25 <shadi> zakim, klaus/johannes/thomas is really Johannes
14:03:25 <Zakim> +Johannes; got it
14:03:34 <shadi> zakim, klaus/johannes/thomas.a is really CarlosV
14:03:34 <Zakim> +CarlosV; got it
14:04:21 <shadi> agenda?
14:05:46 <shadi> regrets: Reinhard
14:06:06 <Zakim> +[CTIC]
14:06:17 <shadi> zakim, ctic is really CarlosI
14:06:17 <Zakim> +CarlosI; got it
14:06:37 <shadi> scribe: CarlosI
14:06:40 <shadi> scribenick: CarlosI
14:06:46 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 1
14:06:46 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Test mode definitions" taken up [from shadi]
14:06:54 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/EARL10/issues#testmode
14:07:20 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2007Jul/0000
14:07:31 <CarlosI> SAZ: Issue #7 Test Mode
14:07:46 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/2007/07/04-er-minutes#item05
14:08:08 <CarlosI> SAZ: Discussion before but without conclusions so far
14:08:51 <CarlosI> JR: could you summarize?
14:09:30 <shadi> Where a software tool WAS ABLE TO IDENTIFY POTENTIAL PROBLEM INSTANCES,
14:09:30 <shadi> BUT WHERE HUMAN judgment WAS STILL REQUIRED TO DECIDE OR HELP TO DECIDE
14:09:30 <shadi> WHETHER AN ACTUAL PROBLEM EXISTS. This should be additionally noted
14:09:30 <shadi> through the earl:compoundAssertor class of the Assertor.
14:10:48 <CarlosI> SAZ: semiautomatic is more about the tool taking the decision but with a little human help
14:11:36 <Zakim> -JR
14:12:05 <Zakim> +Jan_Richards
14:13:34 <CarlosI> JR: manual in ATAG means that tool provide info and so but the person makes the decision
14:14:53 <CarlosI> JR: in automatic mode the tool makes decision without the need of any human interaction
14:16:46 <CarlosI> JR: a tool ask to the person look at the image about description
14:17:07 <CarlosI> JR: the person looks at the image and says it's not
14:17:44 <CarlosI> JK: other scenario
14:18:02 <CarlosI> JK: the tool ask the user: is this a layout table?
14:18:58 <CarlosI> JK: if the user says yes and there are structural table elements in the layout table, then the tool takes the decission that this is wrong
14:21:48 <CarlosI> SAZ: the difference seems to be that in same cases the tool just go through the document and list things and in other cases it also makes something more "elaborated", a sort of preprocessing
14:22:40 <Zakim> -CarlosI
14:23:19 <Zakim> +CarlosI
14:24:40 <CarlosI> CV: try to distinguish who has the main role could add a lot of confussion
14:27:55 <CarlosI> CI: The key question is who has the final word, if it's the machine it's automatic, if it's the person is manual
14:29:12 <CarlosI> CI: dropping semi-automatic would be the most clear
14:32:44 <CarlosI> SAZ: focus on who is doing the hard work instead of the decission
14:33:51 <CarlosI> CI: if you need the human intervention it will be manual
14:34:41 <CarlosI> JK: so, if there's no human intervention at all it's going to be automatic
14:35:59 <CarlosI> SAZ: focus on semi-automatic which is the tricky case
14:39:08 <CarlosI> JK: A test tool presents a document to the user with a tree view
14:39:42 <CarlosI> JK: The user finds a layout table in the tree and comunicates this to the tool, using a checkbox for example
14:42:01 <CarlosI> JR: you need at least have automatic instance location
14:43:21 <CarlosI> SAZ: you can look also at "good things", not just problems
14:45:09 <CarlosI> JR: will take the rewording to the ATAG WG
14:45:54 <CarlosI> JR: are there repair modes in EARL?
14:46:06 <CarlosI> SAZ: no, just evaluation
14:47:53 <CarlosI> ACTION: SAZ to take the wording back to ATAG and have a final decision next week
14:48:10 <Zakim> -Jan_Richards
14:48:46 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2007Jul/0008
14:49:33 <CarlosI> ACTION: everybody to response to the thread on the mailing list
14:49:44 <shadi> zakim, take up next
14:49:44 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Review the plan for publishing EARL 1.0 Guide" taken up [from shadi]
14:50:03 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/2007/07/04-er-minutes#item01
14:50:40 <CarlosI> SAZ: CV, we expected something by yesterday
14:50:52 <CarlosI> CV: will be for the next week
14:51:14 <shadi> s/next week/tonight!
14:51:20 <shadi> zakim, take up next
14:51:20 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Review the plan for publishing Pointer Methods in RDF" taken up [from shadi]
14:51:35 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/2007/07/04-er-minutes#item02
14:51:43 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2007Jul/0016.html
14:53:04 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2007Jul/att-0016/PointersChangesDraft.htm
14:55:44 <CarlosI> CI: it's a summarize of the current state of the art taking into consideration what we have discussed until now, specially at the last F2F
14:56:09 <CarlosI> CI: there're some open issues to discuss about
14:56:32 <CarlosI> CI: we need to decide what are we going to address before next draft
14:57:40 <CarlosI> SAZ: would be good to have issues highlighted to help distinguish them
14:58:26 <CarlosI> ACTION: CI to highlight issues in the document
15:00:15 <CarlosI> SAZ: is there anything missing or can we freeze this requirements for the next draft?
15:01:00 <CarlosI> ACTION: everybody to check the document and look for missing things
15:02:40 <shadi> zakim, take up next
15:03:02 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Revised simplified approach for HTTP-in-RDF" taken up [from shadi]
15:03:07 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2007Jul/0009
15:03:28 <CarlosI> SAZ: updated with discuss so far
15:03:32 <Zakim> -CarlosV
15:03:42 <CarlosV> sorry I must go
15:04:34 <Zakim> -CarlosI
15:04:38 <Zakim> -Shadi
15:04:42 <Zakim> -Johannes
15:06:04 <Zakim> -David
15:06:06 <Zakim> WAI_ERTWG()10:00AM has ended
15:06:08 <Zakim> Attendees were Shadi, +0175356aaaa, JR, David, Johannes, CarlosV, CarlosI, Jan_Richards
15:07:00 <shadi> zakim, bye
15:07:00 <Zakim> Zakim has left #er
15:07:07 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
15:07:12 <shadi> rrsagent, make minutes
15:07:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-er-minutes.html shadi
15:07:14 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
15:07:18 <shadi> rrsagent, bye
15:07:18 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-er-actions.rdf :
15:07:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: SAZ to take the wording back to ATAG and have a final decision next week [1]
15:07:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-er-irc#T14-47-53
15:07:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: everybody to response to the thread on the mailing list [2]
15:07:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-er-irc#T14-49-33
15:07:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: CI to highlight issues in the document [3]
15:07:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-er-irc#T14-58-26
15:07:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: everybody to check the document and look for missing things [4]
15:07:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-er-irc#T15-01-00