IRC log of er on 2007-07-11

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:49:00 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #er

13:49:00 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-er-irc

13:49:05 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #er

13:49:11 [shadi]

zakim, this will be ERT

13:49:11 [Zakim]

ok, shadi; I see WAI_ERTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 11 minutes

13:49:17 [shadi]

meeting: ERT WG

13:49:21 [shadi]

chair: Shadi

13:49:26 [shadi]

agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2007Jul/0015.html

13:49:47 [shadi]

agenda+ Test mode definitions

13:50:00 [shadi]

agenda+ Review the plan for publishing EARL 1.0 Guide

13:50:09 [shadi]

agemda+ Review the plan for publishing Pointer Methods in RDF

13:50:19 [shadi]

agenda+ Review the plan for publishing Pointer Methods in RDF

13:50:24 [shadi]

agenda+ Revised simplified approach for HTTP-in-RDF

13:54:27 [JR]

JR has joined #er

13:56:54 [drooks]

drooks has joined #er

13:58:28 [Zakim]

WAI_ERTWG()10:00AM has now started

13:58:38 [Zakim]

+Shadi

13:58:42 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

13:58:44 [Zakim]

+ +0175356aaaa

13:59:02 [JR]

zakim, [IPcaller] is really JR

13:59:02 [Zakim]

+JR; got it

13:59:16 [shadi]

zakim, aaaa is really David

13:59:16 [Zakim]

+David; got it

14:01:23 [CarlosV]

CarlosV has joined #er

14:01:56 [CarlosI]

CarlosI has joined #er

14:02:33 [Zakim]

+Klaus/Johannes/Thomas

14:02:52 [Zakim]

+Klaus/Johannes/Thomas.a

14:02:54 [JohannesK]

JohannesK has joined #er

14:03:04 [shadi]

zakim, klaus is really Johannes

14:03:04 [Zakim]

sorry, shadi, I do not recognize a party named 'klaus'

14:03:15 [shadi]

zakim, who is on the phone?

14:03:15 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Shadi, JR, David, Klaus/Johannes/Thomas, Klaus/Johannes/Thomas.a

14:03:25 [shadi]

zakim, klaus/johannes/thomas is really Johannes

14:03:25 [Zakim]

+Johannes; got it

14:03:34 [shadi]

zakim, klaus/johannes/thomas.a is really CarlosV

14:03:34 [Zakim]

+CarlosV; got it

14:04:21 [shadi]

agenda?

14:05:46 [shadi]

regrets: Reinhard

14:06:06 [Zakim]

+[CTIC]

14:06:17 [shadi]

zakim, ctic is really CarlosI

14:06:17 [Zakim]

+CarlosI; got it

14:06:37 [shadi]

scribe: CarlosI

14:06:40 [shadi]

scribenick: CarlosI

14:06:46 [shadi]

zakim, take up agendum 1

14:06:46 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Test mode definitions" taken up [from shadi]

14:06:54 [shadi]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/EARL10/issues#testmode

14:07:20 [shadi]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2007Jul/0000

14:07:31 [CarlosI]

SAZ: Issue #7 Test Mode

14:07:46 [shadi]

http://www.w3.org/2007/07/04-er-minutes#item05

14:08:08 [CarlosI]

SAZ: Discussion before but without conclusions so far

14:08:51 [CarlosI]

JR: could you summarize?

14:09:30 [shadi]

Where a software tool WAS ABLE TO IDENTIFY POTENTIAL PROBLEM INSTANCES,

14:09:30 [shadi]

BUT WHERE HUMAN judgment WAS STILL REQUIRED TO DECIDE OR HELP TO DECIDE

14:09:30 [shadi]

WHETHER AN ACTUAL PROBLEM EXISTS. This should be additionally noted

14:09:30 [shadi]

through the earl:compoundAssertor class of the Assertor.

14:10:48 [CarlosI]

SAZ: semiautomatic is more about the tool taking the decision but with a little human help

14:11:36 [Zakim]

-JR

14:12:05 [Zakim]

+Jan_Richards

14:13:34 [CarlosI]

JR: manual in ATAG means that tool provide info and so but the person makes the decision

14:14:53 [CarlosI]

JR: in automatic mode the tool makes decision without the need of any human interaction

14:16:46 [CarlosI]

JR: a tool ask to the person look at the image about description

14:17:07 [CarlosI]

JR: the person looks at the image and says it's not

14:17:44 [CarlosI]

JK: other scenario

14:18:02 [CarlosI]

JK: the tool ask the user: is this a layout table?

14:18:58 [CarlosI]

JK: if the user says yes and there are structural table elements in the layout table, then the tool takes the decission that this is wrong

14:21:48 [CarlosI]

SAZ: the difference seems to be that in same cases the tool just go through the document and list things and in other cases it also makes something more "elaborated", a sort of preprocessing

14:22:40 [Zakim]

-CarlosI

14:23:19 [Zakim]

+CarlosI

14:24:40 [CarlosI]

CV: try to distinguish who has the main role could add a lot of confussion

14:27:55 [CarlosI]

CI: The key question is who has the final word, if it's the machine it's automatic, if it's the person is manual

14:29:12 [CarlosI]

CI: dropping semi-automatic would be the most clear

14:32:44 [CarlosI]

SAZ: focus on who is doing the hard work instead of the decission

14:33:51 [CarlosI]

CI: if you need the human intervention it will be manual

14:34:41 [CarlosI]

JK: so, if there's no human intervention at all it's going to be automatic

14:35:59 [CarlosI]

SAZ: focus on semi-automatic which is the tricky case

14:39:08 [CarlosI]

JK: A test tool presents a document to the user with a tree view

14:39:42 [CarlosI]

JK: The user finds a layout table in the tree and comunicates this to the tool, using a checkbox for example

14:42:01 [CarlosI]

JR: you need at least have automatic instance location

14:43:21 [CarlosI]

SAZ: you can look also at "good things", not just problems

14:45:09 [CarlosI]

JR: will take the rewording to the ATAG WG

14:45:54 [CarlosI]

JR: are there repair modes in EARL?

14:46:06 [CarlosI]

SAZ: no, just evaluation

14:47:53 [CarlosI]

ACTION: SAZ to take the wording back to ATAG and have a final decision next week

14:48:10 [Zakim]

-Jan_Richards

14:48:46 [shadi]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2007Jul/0008

14:49:33 [CarlosI]

ACTION: everybody to response to the thread on the mailing list

14:49:44 [shadi]

zakim, take up next

14:49:44 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "Review the plan for publishing EARL 1.0 Guide" taken up [from shadi]

14:50:03 [shadi]

http://www.w3.org/2007/07/04-er-minutes#item01

14:50:40 [CarlosI]

SAZ: CV, we expected something by yesterday

14:50:52 [CarlosI]

CV: will be for the next week

14:51:14 [shadi]

s/next week/tonight!

14:51:20 [shadi]

zakim, take up next

14:51:20 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "Review the plan for publishing Pointer Methods in RDF" taken up [from shadi]

14:51:35 [shadi]

http://www.w3.org/2007/07/04-er-minutes#item02

14:51:43 [shadi]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2007Jul/0016.html

14:53:04 [shadi]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2007Jul/att-0016/PointersChangesDraft.htm

14:55:44 [CarlosI]

CI: it's a summarize of the current state of the art taking into consideration what we have discussed until now, specially at the last F2F

14:56:09 [CarlosI]

CI: there're some open issues to discuss about

14:56:32 [CarlosI]

CI: we need to decide what are we going to address before next draft

14:57:40 [CarlosI]

SAZ: would be good to have issues highlighted to help distinguish them

14:58:26 [CarlosI]

ACTION: CI to highlight issues in the document

15:00:15 [CarlosI]

SAZ: is there anything missing or can we freeze this requirements for the next draft?

15:01:00 [CarlosI]

ACTION: everybody to check the document and look for missing things

15:02:40 [shadi]

zakim, take up next

15:03:02 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "Revised simplified approach for HTTP-in-RDF" taken up [from shadi]

15:03:07 [shadi]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2007Jul/0009

15:03:28 [CarlosI]

SAZ: updated with discuss so far

15:03:32 [Zakim]

-CarlosV

15:03:42 [CarlosV]

sorry I must go

15:04:34 [Zakim]

-CarlosI

15:04:38 [Zakim]

-Shadi

15:04:42 [Zakim]

-Johannes

15:06:04 [Zakim]

-David

15:06:06 [Zakim]

WAI_ERTWG()10:00AM has ended

15:06:08 [Zakim]

Attendees were Shadi, +0175356aaaa, JR, David, Johannes, CarlosV, CarlosI, Jan_Richards

15:07:00 [shadi]

zakim, bye

15:07:00 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #er

15:07:07 [shadi]

rrsagent, make logs world

15:07:12 [shadi]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:07:12 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-er-minutes.html shadi

15:07:14 [shadi]

rrsagent, make logs world

15:07:18 [shadi]

rrsagent, bye

15:07:18 [RRSAgent]

I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-er-actions.rdf :

15:07:18 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: SAZ to take the wording back to ATAG and have a final decision next week [1]

15:07:18 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-er-irc#T14-47-53

15:07:18 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: everybody to response to the thread on the mailing list [2]

15:07:18 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-er-irc#T14-49-33

15:07:18 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: CI to highlight issues in the document [3]

15:07:18 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-er-irc#T14-58-26

15:07:18 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: everybody to check the document and look for missing things [4]

15:07:18 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-er-irc#T15-01-00