IRC log of er on 2007-07-11

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:49:00 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #er
13:49:00 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-er-irc
13:49:05 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #er
13:49:11 [shadi]
zakim, this will be ERT
13:49:11 [Zakim]
ok, shadi; I see WAI_ERTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
13:49:17 [shadi]
meeting: ERT WG
13:49:21 [shadi]
chair: Shadi
13:49:26 [shadi]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2007Jul/0015.html
13:49:47 [shadi]
agenda+ Test mode definitions
13:50:00 [shadi]
agenda+ Review the plan for publishing EARL 1.0 Guide
13:50:09 [shadi]
agemda+ Review the plan for publishing Pointer Methods in RDF
13:50:19 [shadi]
agenda+ Review the plan for publishing Pointer Methods in RDF
13:50:24 [shadi]
agenda+ Revised simplified approach for HTTP-in-RDF
13:54:27 [JR]
JR has joined #er
13:56:54 [drooks]
drooks has joined #er
13:58:28 [Zakim]
WAI_ERTWG()10:00AM has now started
13:58:38 [Zakim]
+Shadi
13:58:42 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
13:58:44 [Zakim]
+ +0175356aaaa
13:59:02 [JR]
zakim, [IPcaller] is really JR
13:59:02 [Zakim]
+JR; got it
13:59:16 [shadi]
zakim, aaaa is really David
13:59:16 [Zakim]
+David; got it
14:01:23 [CarlosV]
CarlosV has joined #er
14:01:56 [CarlosI]
CarlosI has joined #er
14:02:33 [Zakim]
+Klaus/Johannes/Thomas
14:02:52 [Zakim]
+Klaus/Johannes/Thomas.a
14:02:54 [JohannesK]
JohannesK has joined #er
14:03:04 [shadi]
zakim, klaus is really Johannes
14:03:04 [Zakim]
sorry, shadi, I do not recognize a party named 'klaus'
14:03:15 [shadi]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:03:15 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Shadi, JR, David, Klaus/Johannes/Thomas, Klaus/Johannes/Thomas.a
14:03:25 [shadi]
zakim, klaus/johannes/thomas is really Johannes
14:03:25 [Zakim]
+Johannes; got it
14:03:34 [shadi]
zakim, klaus/johannes/thomas.a is really CarlosV
14:03:34 [Zakim]
+CarlosV; got it
14:04:21 [shadi]
agenda?
14:05:46 [shadi]
regrets: Reinhard
14:06:06 [Zakim]
+[CTIC]
14:06:17 [shadi]
zakim, ctic is really CarlosI
14:06:17 [Zakim]
+CarlosI; got it
14:06:37 [shadi]
scribe: CarlosI
14:06:40 [shadi]
scribenick: CarlosI
14:06:46 [shadi]
zakim, take up agendum 1
14:06:46 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Test mode definitions" taken up [from shadi]
14:06:54 [shadi]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/EARL10/issues#testmode
14:07:20 [shadi]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2007Jul/0000
14:07:31 [CarlosI]
SAZ: Issue #7 Test Mode
14:07:46 [shadi]
http://www.w3.org/2007/07/04-er-minutes#item05
14:08:08 [CarlosI]
SAZ: Discussion before but without conclusions so far
14:08:51 [CarlosI]
JR: could you summarize?
14:09:30 [shadi]
Where a software tool WAS ABLE TO IDENTIFY POTENTIAL PROBLEM INSTANCES,
14:09:30 [shadi]
BUT WHERE HUMAN judgment WAS STILL REQUIRED TO DECIDE OR HELP TO DECIDE
14:09:30 [shadi]
WHETHER AN ACTUAL PROBLEM EXISTS. This should be additionally noted
14:09:30 [shadi]
through the earl:compoundAssertor class of the Assertor.
14:10:48 [CarlosI]
SAZ: semiautomatic is more about the tool taking the decision but with a little human help
14:11:36 [Zakim]
-JR
14:12:05 [Zakim]
+Jan_Richards
14:13:34 [CarlosI]
JR: manual in ATAG means that tool provide info and so but the person makes the decision
14:14:53 [CarlosI]
JR: in automatic mode the tool makes decision without the need of any human interaction
14:16:46 [CarlosI]
JR: a tool ask to the person look at the image about description
14:17:07 [CarlosI]
JR: the person looks at the image and says it's not
14:17:44 [CarlosI]
JK: other scenario
14:18:02 [CarlosI]
JK: the tool ask the user: is this a layout table?
14:18:58 [CarlosI]
JK: if the user says yes and there are structural table elements in the layout table, then the tool takes the decission that this is wrong
14:21:48 [CarlosI]
SAZ: the difference seems to be that in same cases the tool just go through the document and list things and in other cases it also makes something more "elaborated", a sort of preprocessing
14:22:40 [Zakim]
-CarlosI
14:23:19 [Zakim]
+CarlosI
14:24:40 [CarlosI]
CV: try to distinguish who has the main role could add a lot of confussion
14:27:55 [CarlosI]
CI: The key question is who has the final word, if it's the machine it's automatic, if it's the person is manual
14:29:12 [CarlosI]
CI: dropping semi-automatic would be the most clear
14:32:44 [CarlosI]
SAZ: focus on who is doing the hard work instead of the decission
14:33:51 [CarlosI]
CI: if you need the human intervention it will be manual
14:34:41 [CarlosI]
JK: so, if there's no human intervention at all it's going to be automatic
14:35:59 [CarlosI]
SAZ: focus on semi-automatic which is the tricky case
14:39:08 [CarlosI]
JK: A test tool presents a document to the user with a tree view
14:39:42 [CarlosI]
JK: The user finds a layout table in the tree and comunicates this to the tool, using a checkbox for example
14:42:01 [CarlosI]
JR: you need at least have automatic instance location
14:43:21 [CarlosI]
SAZ: you can look also at "good things", not just problems
14:45:09 [CarlosI]
JR: will take the rewording to the ATAG WG
14:45:54 [CarlosI]
JR: are there repair modes in EARL?
14:46:06 [CarlosI]
SAZ: no, just evaluation
14:47:53 [CarlosI]
ACTION: SAZ to take the wording back to ATAG and have a final decision next week
14:48:10 [Zakim]
-Jan_Richards
14:48:46 [shadi]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2007Jul/0008
14:49:33 [CarlosI]
ACTION: everybody to response to the thread on the mailing list
14:49:44 [shadi]
zakim, take up next
14:49:44 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Review the plan for publishing EARL 1.0 Guide" taken up [from shadi]
14:50:03 [shadi]
http://www.w3.org/2007/07/04-er-minutes#item01
14:50:40 [CarlosI]
SAZ: CV, we expected something by yesterday
14:50:52 [CarlosI]
CV: will be for the next week
14:51:14 [shadi]
s/next week/tonight!
14:51:20 [shadi]
zakim, take up next
14:51:20 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Review the plan for publishing Pointer Methods in RDF" taken up [from shadi]
14:51:35 [shadi]
http://www.w3.org/2007/07/04-er-minutes#item02
14:51:43 [shadi]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2007Jul/0016.html
14:53:04 [shadi]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2007Jul/att-0016/PointersChangesDraft.htm
14:55:44 [CarlosI]
CI: it's a summarize of the current state of the art taking into consideration what we have discussed until now, specially at the last F2F
14:56:09 [CarlosI]
CI: there're some open issues to discuss about
14:56:32 [CarlosI]
CI: we need to decide what are we going to address before next draft
14:57:40 [CarlosI]
SAZ: would be good to have issues highlighted to help distinguish them
14:58:26 [CarlosI]
ACTION: CI to highlight issues in the document
15:00:15 [CarlosI]
SAZ: is there anything missing or can we freeze this requirements for the next draft?
15:01:00 [CarlosI]
ACTION: everybody to check the document and look for missing things
15:02:40 [shadi]
zakim, take up next
15:03:02 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Revised simplified approach for HTTP-in-RDF" taken up [from shadi]
15:03:07 [shadi]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2007Jul/0009
15:03:28 [CarlosI]
SAZ: updated with discuss so far
15:03:32 [Zakim]
-CarlosV
15:03:42 [CarlosV]
sorry I must go
15:04:34 [Zakim]
-CarlosI
15:04:38 [Zakim]
-Shadi
15:04:42 [Zakim]
-Johannes
15:06:04 [Zakim]
-David
15:06:06 [Zakim]
WAI_ERTWG()10:00AM has ended
15:06:08 [Zakim]
Attendees were Shadi, +0175356aaaa, JR, David, Johannes, CarlosV, CarlosI, Jan_Richards
15:07:00 [shadi]
zakim, bye
15:07:00 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #er
15:07:07 [shadi]
rrsagent, make logs world
15:07:12 [shadi]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:07:12 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-er-minutes.html shadi
15:07:14 [shadi]
rrsagent, make logs world
15:07:18 [shadi]
rrsagent, bye
15:07:18 [RRSAgent]
I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-er-actions.rdf :
15:07:18 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: SAZ to take the wording back to ATAG and have a final decision next week [1]
15:07:18 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-er-irc#T14-47-53
15:07:18 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: everybody to response to the thread on the mailing list [2]
15:07:18 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-er-irc#T14-49-33
15:07:18 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: CI to highlight issues in the document [3]
15:07:18 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-er-irc#T14-58-26
15:07:18 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: everybody to check the document and look for missing things [4]
15:07:18 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/11-er-irc#T15-01-00