IRC log of swd on 2007-07-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:52:05 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #swd
14:52:05 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/07/10-swd-irc
14:52:28 [TomB]
rrsagent, bookmark
14:52:28 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2007/07/10-swd-irc#T14-52-28
14:52:33 [TomB]
zakim, this will be swd
14:52:33 [Zakim]
ok, TomB, I see SW_SWD()11:00AM already started
14:52:48 [TomB]
zakim, ??p5 is TomB
14:52:48 [Zakim]
+TomB; got it
14:52:58 [TomB]
Meeting: SWD WG
14:53:00 [TomB]
Chair: Tom
14:53:44 [TomB]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jul/0043.html
14:54:22 [TomB]
Previous: http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html
14:54:46 [TomB]
Regrets: Guus, Daniel, Diego, Ralph, Jon, Simone, Sean, Elisa, Clay
14:55:13 [TomB]
rrsagent, please make record public
14:58:14 [edsu]
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14:58:45 [Antoine]
Antoine has joined #swd
15:00:24 [Bern]
Bern has joined #swd
15:00:49 [Zakim]
+??P16
15:00:59 [Zakim]
+ +0120682aaaa
15:01:10 [Bern]
zakim, aaaa is Bernard
15:01:10 [Zakim]
+Bernard; got it
15:01:10 [Antoine]
zakim, P16 is Antoine
15:01:11 [Zakim]
sorry, Antoine, I do not recognize a party named 'P16'
15:01:28 [vit]
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15:01:36 [seanb]
seanb has joined #swd
15:01:56 [Zakim]
+[LC]
15:02:26 [Zakim]
+[LC]
15:02:32 [TomB]
Scribe: Bernard
15:02:38 [TomB]
Scribenick: Bern
15:03:10 [Zakim]
+??P34
15:04:13 [Zakim]
+??P7
15:05:37 [Bern]
Topic: Admin
15:05:59 [Bern]
TomB proposes accept minutes of 3rd July 2007
15:06:06 [Bern]
No objections,
15:06:10 [seanb]
Alistair's regrets: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jul/0056.html
15:06:11 [Bern]
Resolved
15:06:21 [Bern]
Next telecon 17th July
15:06:29 [Bern]
ACTION: Guus to propose dates in Oct for Amsterdam meeting on SKOS [recorded in [43]http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action01]
15:06:36 [Bern]
--continues
15:06:40 [Bern]
Topic: SKOS
15:06:49 [Bern]
ACTION: Antoine to raise issue of adding broader/narrower relations in skos [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action03]
15:06:49 [Antoine]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jul/0012.html
15:07:10 [Bern]
--DONE
15:07:44 [Bern]
Antione: proposal is related to former SKOS extension document
15:08:05 [Bern]
...with broaderGeneric, broaderPartitive etc.
15:08:18 [Bern]
...eg. one is meant to represent part-whole relationships
15:08:30 [Bern]
...some users have spotted these ideas and would like to use them
15:08:44 [Bern]
...so should we represent these ideas as part of SKOS?
15:08:50 [Bern]
TomB: what is your opinion?
15:09:10 [Bern]
Antione: some correspond to commonly-accepted relationships in thesaurus domain
15:09:39 [Bern]
...but may be some problems because some relationships are handled by multiple SKOS properties, such as broaderPartitive and relatedPart
15:09:59 [Bern]
...but generally I thin it would be a good idea to recognise that these properties were proposed
15:10:20 [Bern]
...and some users want to use these properties as part of their models
15:10:36 [Bern]
TomB: anyone know how extensively these proeprties are already beeing used?
15:10:55 [Bern]
...it has a W3C URI and people are using it yet it's status seems ambiguous
15:11:07 [Bern]
...anyone checked to see amount of usage?
15:11:36 [Bern]
Antoine: usage now is not important, but as long as they remain public and they correspond to common thesaurus usage then some users
15:11:44 [Bern]
...may start using them.
15:11:51 [Bern]
Seanb: what is cost to us to include them?
15:12:22 [Bern]
Antoine: not expensive, but I'm not sure they cover all the established needs. Some papers describe these kinds of links, but there are more
15:12:43 [Bern]
...but if we want to be extensive, or do we want to limit to the current extensions?
15:13:02 [Bern]
TomB: has anyone raised any objections, other than partititive issue?
15:13:31 [Bern]
...what status they attained in original project and why they weren't moved into rest of spec?
15:14:08 [Bern]
Antoine: I think it was for the readabiity of the standard, and to be clear about what properties can be extended by users.
15:14:10 [aliman]
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15:14:43 [Bern]
...For example, a kind of link that can be thought of is e.g. a painter, and a painting process. This relationship is not currently expressed in the
15:15:14 [Bern]
...SKOS model, so some users may be confused about how to create their extensions? Should they be a sub property of broader or some more core property?
15:15:38 [Bern]
TomB: suggest we move on today, but discuss when Alistair is here to discover historical context
15:15:56 [Bern]
ACTION: Guus to move Action 26 forward [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action04]
15:16:01 [Bern]
--continues
15:16:10 [Bern]
ACTION: Guus to post user experience reports for ISSUE-26 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action05]
15:16:14 [Bern]
--continues
15:16:25 [Bern]
-- ISSUE-33: Grouping Construct (http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/33)
15:16:42 [Bern]
Tomb: Alistair has proposed a way forward
15:16:49 [Bern]
-- ISSUE-33: Grouping Construct (http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/33)
15:16:58 [Bern]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jun/0166.html
15:17:39 [Bern]
TomB: Does anyone disagree with this approach?
15:17:46 [Bern]
No response
15:18:08 [Bern]
Antoine: Sean raised some concerns about syntactic constraints
15:18:17 [Bern]
Seanb: haven't had time to consider this yet
15:18:50 [Bern]
Antoine: didn't know if there was redundancy between syntactic and possible future semantic constraints
15:19:02 [Bern]
...wondering if more experienced people could say something about this
15:19:19 [Bern]
tomB: related to issue 31
15:19:21 [Bern]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jun/0166.html
15:20:04 [Bern]
TomB: alistair has added comments about relationship to OWL, specifically OWL-DL
15:21:04 [Bern]
TomB: without alistair's presence we can't make any progress on this today
15:21:14 [Bern]
Topic: RDFa
15:21:44 [Bern]
TomB: last week Ralph suggested a discussion about the difference between class and role
15:21:55 [Bern]
...is there anyone on the telecon to discuss this?
15:22:03 [aliman]
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15:22:05 [Bern]
ACTION: Ralph to Discuss possibility of meeting for RDFa in Cambridge [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action02]
15:22:08 [Bern]
--continues
15:22:12 [Bern]
TOPIC: Recipes
15:22:20 [Bern]
ACTION: Ralph to Discuss possibility of meeting for RDFa in Cambridge [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action02]
15:22:25 [Bern]
--continues
15:22:33 [Bern]
Topic: Vocabulary Management
15:22:41 [Bern]
TomB: Lisa is not on call
15:22:57 [Bern]
...so let's continue to next meeting
15:23:11 [Bern]
...not enough people on the call
15:23:24 [Bern]
[adjourned]
15:23:27 [seanb]
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15:23:28 [Zakim]
-Vit
15:23:29 [Zakim]
-Justin
15:23:31 [Zakim]
-Edsu
15:23:32 [Zakim]
-Antoine
15:23:36 [Zakim]
-Seanb
15:23:41 [edsu]
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15:24:08 [TomB]
zakim, list attendees
15:24:08 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been TomB, +0120682aaaa, Bernard, Antoine, Edsu, Seanb, Justin, Vit
15:24:40 [TomB]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:24:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/10-swd-minutes.html TomB
15:25:06 [aliman]
hi tom, antoine, bernard, how's it going?
15:25:21 [aliman]
sorry i couldn't make it, stuck in a meeting.
15:25:22 [Zakim]
-Bernard
15:25:26 [TomB]
aliman, hi
15:25:44 [TomB]
we had a short meeting today - lots of regrets (including Guus and Ralph) - it's july...
15:26:01 [aliman]
i saw, a couple of people at the open forum
15:26:06 [Zakim]
-TomB
15:26:08 [Zakim]
SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended
15:26:09 [Zakim]
Attendees were TomB, +0120682aaaa, Bernard, Antoine, Edsu, Seanb, Justin, Vit
15:26:15 [TomB]
oops
15:26:23 [TomB]
aliman, are you still there?
15:26:28 [aliman]
yep, here
15:26:50 [TomB]
Jon, Elisa, Clay... anyone else?
15:27:18 [aliman]
think it's just you, me, antoine & bern on IRC
15:27:47 [TomB]
Jon, Elisa, and Clay are at the open forum I think
15:28:21 [aliman]
yep
15:29:46 [Antoine]
hey there were still things happening here :-)
15:30:06 [Antoine]
bye
15:30:16 [Antoine]
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15:30:42 [aliman]
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15:30:57 [TomB]
aliman, talk to you next week?
15:31:16 [aliman]
yep, talk to you then. sorry, dodgy wireless here. hope you're well.