IRC log of tagmem on 2007-07-09

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:41:48 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #tagmem
15:41:48 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/07/09-tagmem-irc
15:42:02 [Stuart]: zakim, this will be tag
15:42:02 [Zakim]: ok, Stuart; I see TAG_Weekly()12:00PM scheduled to start in 18 minutes
15:52:23 [DanC]: DanC has joined #tagmem
15:56:53 [Rhys]: Rhys has joined #tagmem
15:57:58 [Zakim]: TAG_Weekly()12:00PM has now started
15:58:05 [Zakim]: + +0196288aaaa
15:58:27 [Zakim]: +??P2
15:58:34 [Stuart]: zakim, ??P2 is me
15:58:34 [Zakim]: +Stuart; got it
15:59:42 [DanC]: DanC has changed the topic to: TAG 9 July http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/tag-weekly scribe: Raman
15:59:48 [Zakim]: +DanC
16:00:25 [DanC]: Zakim, aaaa is Rhys
16:00:25 [Zakim]: +Rhys; got it
16:00:46 [DanC]: DanC has changed the topic to: TAG 9 July http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/tag-weekly scribe: DanC
16:01:03 [DanC]: agenda + Convene
16:01:12 [DanC]: agenda + Approve Minutes from 25th June 2007
16:01:19 [DanC]: agenda + (Post) Summer 'Recess'
16:01:26 [DanC]: agenda + Issue XMLVersioning-41
16:01:34 [DanC]: agenda + Issue httpRange-14
16:01:50 [DanC]: agenda 2 = Approve Minutes from previous meeting
16:02:07 [Zakim]: +Raman
16:02:21 [raman]: raman has joined #tagmem
16:02:29 [Stuart]: zakim, who is here
16:02:29 [Zakim]: Stuart, you need to end that query with '?'
16:02:32 [Stuart]: zakim, who is here?
16:02:32 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Rhys, Stuart, DanC, Raman
16:02:33 [Zakim]: On IRC I see raman, Rhys, DanC, RRSAgent, Zakim, Stuart, Norm, trackbot-ng, ht
16:03:23 [DanC]: Zakim, take up item 1
16:03:23 [Zakim]: agendum 1. "Convene" taken up [from DanC]
16:03:29 [DanC]: Regrets: Noah, TimBL
16:03:59 [DanC]: PROPOSED: to meet again 16 July, Raman to scribe
16:04:18 [DanC]: raman: OK
16:04:42 [DanC]: for next week: regrets: David, Rhys, Henry
16:05:00 [Stuart]: zakim, who is here?
16:05:00 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Rhys, Stuart, DanC, Raman
16:05:01 [Zakim]: On IRC I see raman, Rhys, DanC, RRSAgent, Zakim, Stuart, Norm, trackbot-ng, ht
16:05:02 [DanC]: SKW: I may cancel if we're thin on agenda
16:05:15 [ht]: zakim, please call ht-781
16:05:15 [Zakim]: ok, ht; the call is being made
16:05:17 [Zakim]: +Ht
16:05:44 [DanC]: PROPOSED: to accept http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2007/07/02-minutes as a true record
16:06:16 [DanC]: RESOLVED: to cancel 23rd, 30th July and 6th Aug
16:06:26 [DanC]: SKW: perhaps we did that last week, but just to be sure.
16:06:42 [DanC]: RESOLVED: to accept http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2007/07/02-minutes as a true record
16:06:44 [DanC]: Zakim, close item 2
16:06:44 [Zakim]: agendum 2, Approve Minutes from previous meeting, closed
16:06:45 [Zakim]: I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:06:46 [Zakim]: 1. Convene [from DanC]
16:06:57 [DanC]: Zakim, next item
16:06:57 [Zakim]: agendum 3. "(Post) Summer 'Recess'" taken up [from DanC]
16:07:41 [DanC]: SKW is at risk 13 Aug, i.e. not available to prepare agenda
16:08:13 [Zakim]: +DOrchard
16:08:24 [DanC]: SKW: volunteer to chair 13 Aug? [pause...] ok, we'll leave that to later
16:08:31 [DanC]: Zakim, next item
16:08:31 [Zakim]: agendum 4. "Issue XMLVersioning-41" taken up [from DanC]
16:08:49 [dorchard]: dorchard has joined #tagmem
16:09:25 [DanC]: SKW: withdraw 2 and continue 3 actions?
16:10:44 [DanC]: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2007Jul/0003.html DaveO RE: versioning definitions...
16:11:40 [DanC]: discussing ACTION: DC accepted on 8 Aug 2006 Review definitions of partial understanding, backward compatible, and forward compatible.
16:12:17 [DanC]: DanC made progress 21 May http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2007May/0040.html
16:12:53 [Stuart]: Indeed. All 3 reviewers have asked this key question. How about "I1 is
16:12:53 [Stuart]: compatible with I2 if all of the information in I1 does not replace or
16:12:53 [Stuart]: contradict any information in I2."
16:13:42 [DanC]: ACTION: DC Review definitions of partial understanding, backward compatible, and forward compatible. [CONTINUES]
16:13:42 [trackbot-ng]: Created ACTION-4 - Review definitions of partial understanding, backward compatible, and forward compatible. [CONTINUES] [on Dan Connolly - due 2007-07-16].
16:13:53 [DanC]: DanC: sounds like "consistent"
16:14:02 [DanC]: ... I'll have to think about it.
16:15:13 [DanC]: (the trackbot default of 1 week is not traditional in this group; I'm not sure when I'll get to that action)
16:15:59 [DanC]: DaveO: ... now text-set has a [different relationship] to syntax...
16:16:14 [DanC]: ... I changed the diagram.
16:16:26 [DanC]: q+ to ask about diagram source
16:17:50 [DanC]: DaveO reviews changes... faster than the scribe can summarize
16:19:18 [Stuart]: ack dan
16:19:19 [Zakim]: DanC, you wanted to ask about diagram source
16:19:20 [DanC]: DaveO: the reviewers seemed to catch many of the same things
16:19:26 [Zakim]: +Norm
16:19:46 [DanC]: DaveO: yes, I checked in .violet v6
16:20:16 [DanC]: ... note violet has been updated; it's an eclipse plug-in. quite convenient since I use eclipse for W3C spec editing
16:21:27 [DanC]: SKW: [something from a recent review message...]
16:22:09 [dorchard]: I just checked in the .violet v6..
16:22:51 [DanC]: ACTION SKW: complete review of terminology section of of 4 July versioning draft
16:23:49 [DanC]: ball seems to be with NDW on XML strategies
16:24:44 [DanC]: ACTION: SKW complete review of terminology section of of 4 July versioning draft
16:24:44 [trackbot-ng]: Sorry, couldn't find user - SKW
16:25:21 [DanC]: DaveO: I addressed a bunch of "add a link here" editorial comments on [which? strategies?]
16:26:14 [DanC]: (when DaveO says "2.2.2 is important...", that's http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/versioning-strategies-20070704.html#forwardsCompatible , yes?)
16:26:40 [dorchard]: yes
16:26:49 [DanC]: -> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/versioning-strategies-20070704.html#forwardsCompatible section 2.2.2 Forwards Compatible
16:27:34 [DanC]: DaveO: section 6, case studies, is now one table. (http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/versioning-strategies-20070704.html#iddiv194353056 )
16:28:37 [DanC]: DaveO: there's a new strategy 2.5 "some go in a new namespace, some go in an existing namespace"
16:28:55 [DanC]: ... to capture the pattern where [something about ##any and ##other]
16:29:48 [DanC]: DaveO: I also mentioned XSLT [i.e. its versioning policy?]
16:30:27 [DanC]: SKW: a process question... should we aim for last call on this material?
16:30:42 [dorchard]: XSLT documents versioning, not versioning XSLT itself from XSLT 2.0 to >2.0.
16:30:56 [DanC]: DanC: umm... sounds good... last call after review of peer groups such as HTML
16:31:03 [DanC]: DaveO: yeah, HTML, XML Schema, XML Core
16:31:14 [DanC]: raman: and CSS, and XHTML 2
16:32:38 [DanC]: DanC: yes, I'd like to think more about the CSS versioning strategy
16:33:56 [DanC]: NDW: yes, I'm working on reviewing "strategies" and the XML part
16:35:15 [DanC]: NW accepted on 12 Dec 2006. Produce some information about NVDL for the finding. [CONTINUES]
16:35:38 [DanC]: ACTION: Norm Produce some information about NVDL for the finding.
16:35:38 [trackbot-ng]: Sorry, couldn't find user - Norm
16:35:50 [DanC]: NDW: by 23 July
16:36:07 [DanC]: NDW: maybe some for the 16 July meeting
16:36:20 [DanC]: (trackbot groks due dates, but the scribe doesn't know how to get it to do it)
16:36:48 [DanC]: Zakim, next item
16:36:48 [Zakim]: agendum 5. "Issue httpRange-14" taken up [from DanC]
16:37:30 [DanC]: ACTION: Stuart to review "Cool URIs for the Semantic Web" [DONE]
16:37:30 [trackbot-ng]: Created ACTION-5 - Review \"Cool URIs for the Semantic Web\" [DONE] [on Stuart Williams - due 2007-07-16].
16:37:47 [DanC]: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2007Jun/0075 SKW on "Cool URIs for the Semantic Web"
16:38:19 [DanC]: ACTION: Norm to review "Cool URIs for the Semantic Web" [WITHDRAWN]
16:38:19 [trackbot-ng]: Sorry, couldn't find user - Norm
16:38:42 [DanC]: DanC: SKW, any impact from your review on our httpRange-14 finding?
16:39:12 [DanC]: SKW: not really; there's stuff they suggest [in "Cool URIs for the Semantic Web"] as best practice that goes beyond what the TAG decided.
16:40:13 [Stuart]: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/fdesc54/slides
16:43:30 [DanC]: Zakim, is dorchard here?
16:43:30 [Zakim]: probably, DanC; DOrchard arrived 35 minutes ago
16:46:01 [DanC]: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2007Jul/0021.html HT on terminology
16:51:24 [DanC]: (scribe is hardly even trying to capture the discussion as he leads it)
16:52:42 [DanC]: HT: in the case of the Oxaca weather report and [some common fairy tale I already forgot], the french and english have roughly the same relationship to the resource; not so for french and english versions of Moby Dick
16:53:27 [dorchard]: q+ to mention that translations sometimes don't hold is in GEB as well, the example being russian book (can't remember which author) translation should perhaps be Dickens.
16:53:30 [DanC]: DanC: is the question of whether the translation is authorized relevant?
16:53:33 [DanC]: HT: not really
16:53:54 [DanC]: SKW: ... generic resources finding relevant... ?
16:54:00 [DanC]: HT: only trivially. [?]
16:54:46 [DanC]: ... english version of [which?] has special status. e.g. conneg...
16:54:55 [Stuart]: ack dave
16:54:58 [Stuart]: ack dave
16:55:01 [Stuart]: ack d
16:55:01 [Zakim]: dorchard, you wanted to mention that translations sometimes don't hold is in GEB as well, the example being russian book (can't remember which author) translation should perhaps be
16:55:05 [Zakim]: ... Dickens.
16:55:27 [ht]: s/[which?]/The Wasteland, by T. S. Eliot/
16:55:35 [DanC]: DanC: this is _exactly_ the authorized translation question. In conneg, the publisher is making claims. if the publisher says, using conneg, "these are equivalent for my purposes", then they're equivalent for his/her purposes
16:56:15 [Stuart]: q?
16:56:26 [DanC]: DaveO: [scribe was totally behind and let himself get distracted]
16:57:14 [dorchard]: translations sometimes don't hold is in GEB as well, the example being russian book (can't remember which author) translation should perhaps be Dickens
16:59:02 [ht]: HST: The somewhat surprising tentative conclusion is that you can't be a responsible Webmaster until you've taken a position on the issue of "The nature of The Work of Art"
17:02:10 [Stuart]: DanC walks through Frag Identifier Diagram
17:05:53 [Stuart]: HST explains indexicals: "I'm right and you're wrong!"... a phase we can both locally agree because it means different things to both of us.
17:06:57 [Stuart]: q?
17:10:14 [DanC]: SKW: Dan, in your investigation, where does 303 come in?
17:10:40 [DanC]: DanC: it's sort of a noop, as far as knowledge exchange, in my thinking. Tim's idea that it constrains things is new to me; I'm still thinking about it
17:10:55 [DanC]: SKW: and Rhys, does this help with httpRange-14?
17:11:30 [DanC]: Rhys: I'm learning a lot about backgrounds that readers bring
17:12:11 [DanC]: SKW: is httpRange-14 a comfortable place for this discussion?
17:12:19 [DanC]: Raman: no, it's opaque
17:12:22 [DanC]: DanC: oops; you're right
17:13:05 [DanC]: Raman: webarch2?
17:13:10 [DanC]: SKW: terminology for webarch2?
17:13:34 [DanC]: DanC: that doesn't narrow it down; does that help? hmm... yes, let's noodle on this a bit
17:14:48 [DanC]: ACTION: RL to revise Dereferencing HTTP URIs finding in response to F2F discussion. [CONTINUES]
17:14:48 [trackbot-ng]: Created ACTION-6 - Revise Dereferencing HTTP URIs finding in response to F2F discussion. [CONTINUES] [on Rhys Lewis - due 2007-07-16].
17:15:00 [DanC]: Topic: Progress on reviewing Enabling Read Access for Web Resources
17:15:16 [DanC]: SKW: I did one half of my action, contacting the chairs
17:15:55 [DanC]: ... that's going well...
17:16:16 [Stuart]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2007Jul/0015.html
17:16:56 [DanC]: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2007Jul/0008.html SKW to POWDER/WAF chairs
17:20:48 [DanC]: DanC: tactically, separate messages for separate subjects
17:21:05 [DanC]: DanC: I dunno enough to endorse #6
17:21:06 [DanC]: DO: likewise
17:21:24 [DanC]: SKW: OK, I'll send the ones we discussed (1 and 2) as from the TAG and the others personally
17:22:00 [DanC]: Zakim, take up item 3
17:22:00 [Zakim]: agendum 3. "(Post) Summer 'Recess'" taken up [from DanC]
17:22:49 [DanC]: SKW: if we're to meet 13 Aug, I need help with agenda prep
17:24:09 [DanC]: NDW: OK, I'll prepare an agenda (or cancellation notice) for 13 Aug
17:24:25 [DanC]: ADJOURN.
17:24:27 [Zakim]: -DOrchard
17:24:33 [Zakim]: -Raman
17:24:34 [Zakim]: -Norm
17:24:34 [Zakim]: -Stuart
17:24:35 [Zakim]: -Rhys
17:24:48 [Zakim]: -Ht
17:24:58 [Zakim]: -DanC
17:24:59 [Zakim]: TAG_Weekly()12:00PM has ended
17:25:00 [Zakim]: Attendees were +0196288aaaa, Stuart, DanC, Rhys, Raman, Ht, DOrchard, Norm
17:29:58 [Stuart]: Stuart has joined #tagmem
17:32:21 [Stuart]: Danc... I haven't looked at them yet... but are the Linked Data questions worth an agenda item next week? Bearing in mind likely attendance: we are down Rhys, Henry and David.
17:32:54 [DanC]: hmm
17:33:34 [DanC]: I'd like you to monitor the discussion; e.g. if I don't chime in, you might remind me next week. but without Rhys, prolly not worth substantive telcon discussion
17:34:47 [Stuart]: Ok... just looking for worthy items... it's a thread I've put to one side on the, "find a bunch of time and a comfy chair to digest this one "in pile.
17:35:09 [Stuart]: GTG... meeting an old college friend this evening.
17:37:39 [DanC]: enjoy
17:38:26 [DanC]: RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:38:26 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/09-tagmem-minutes.html DanC
17:38:36 [DanC]: RRSAgent, make logs world-access