IRC log of wai-wcag on 2007-07-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:03:48 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
20:03:48 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-wai-wcag-irc
20:03:55 [Ben_]
RRSAgent, do not start a new log
20:04:01 [Ben_]
RRSAgent, make log world
20:04:07 [Ben_]
zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
20:04:08 [Zakim]
ok, Ben_, I see WAI_WCAG()3:00PM already started
20:04:15 [Ben_]
Meeting: WCAG Weekly Telecon
20:04:27 [Ben_]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2007JulSep/0012.html
20:04:32 [Ben_]
Chair: Gregg_Vanderheiden, Loretta_Guarino_Reid
20:04:40 [Ben_]
ScribeOptions: -scribeOnly
20:05:08 [Zakim]
+Christophe_Strobbe
20:05:37 [Ben_]
Regrets: Andi_Snow-Weaver
20:05:48 [MichaelC]
scribe: Tim
20:06:00 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.584.aacc
20:06:03 [Ben_]
agenda+ Announcements, Questions, and Updates
20:06:13 [Ben_]
agenda+ Remaining Proposals for 28 June, 2007
20:06:23 [Ben_]
agenda+ July 2 Proposals for 05 July 2007
20:06:34 [Ben_]
agenda+ July 3 Proposals for 05 July 2007
20:06:40 [Ben_]
agenda+ July 4 Proposals for 05 July 2007
20:06:46 [Ben_]
agenda+ July 4 Proposals - SET #2 for 05 July 2007
20:06:55 [Tim]
Topic: Announcements, Questions, and Updates
20:07:08 [Ben_]
zakim, take up agendum 1
20:07:08 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Announcements, Questions, and Updates" taken up [from Ben_]
20:08:11 [awk]
awk has joined #wai-WCAG
20:11:19 [Ben_]
scribe: Tim
20:14:30 [Tim]
Resolution: type 1 editorial (typos, broken links, etc.) issues referred to Ben who will do them and close them without full committee review
20:15:00 [Tim]
Note: other editorial issues will be collected but run past the committee
20:17:20 [Tim]
Gregg: schedule for working meetings next week will be posted on wiki
20:22:21 [Zakim]
+Sofia_Celic
20:24:43 [Tim]
Topic: Remaining proposals for 28 June 2007 - Issue 2006
20:24:54 [Ben_]
zakim, close agendum 1
20:24:54 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Announcements, Questions, and Updates, closed
20:24:55 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
20:24:56 [Zakim]
2. Remaining Proposals for 28 June, 2007 [from Ben_]
20:24:59 [Ben_]
zakim, take up agendum 2
20:24:59 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Remaining Proposals for 28 June, 2007" taken up [from Ben_]
20:27:21 [Sofia]
Sofia has joined #wai-wcag
20:28:46 [Loretta]
q+
20:28:57 [Ben_]
q+
20:28:59 [Tim]
ack Loretta
20:29:08 [Gregg]
ack l
20:30:47 [Gregg]
ack b
20:30:47 [Tim]
ack Ben_
20:31:34 [Loretta]
q+
20:31:46 [Gregg]
ack l
20:33:10 [Tim]
Action: David and Loretta to rework issue 2006
20:33:39 [Tim]
Note: issue 2006 left open
20:34:46 [Tim]
Topic: Remaining proposals for 28 June 2007 - Issue 2007
20:35:42 [Tim]
Note: issue 2007 deferred to later in meeting (covered elsewhere?)
20:35:47 [Ben_]
zakim, close this item
20:35:47 [Zakim]
agendum 2 closed
20:35:48 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
20:35:49 [Zakim]
3. July 2 Proposals for 05 July 2007 [from Ben_]
20:35:52 [Ben_]
zakim, take up agendum 3
20:35:52 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "July 2 Proposals for 05 July 2007" taken up [from Ben_]
20:36:16 [Tim]
Topic: July 2 proposals for 5 July 2007
20:37:38 [aw1]
aw1 has joined #wai-WCAG
20:37:51 [Tim]
Resolution: approve responses 2295, 2297, 2296, 2303, 2304, 1983, 2091, 2163, 2167, 2214, 2017, 2122, 2202, 2309, 2208, 2149, 2243, 2089, 2201, 2083, 2131, 2206, 2076, 2095, 2204
20:37:52 [Tim]
<Tim> Topic: July 2 proposals for 5 July 2007
20:37:52 [Tim]
* aw1 has joined #wai-WCAGby unanimous
20:38:01 [aw1]
aw1 has left #wai-WCAG
20:38:21 [aw1]
aw1 has joined #wai-WCAG
20:38:45 [Zakim]
-Bruce
20:39:49 [Zakim]
+Bruce
20:40:31 [Loretta]
q+
20:40:33 [Tim]
Topic: change "success criterion" to "checkpoint"
20:42:02 [Gregg]
ack l
20:42:32 [Gregg]
ack b
20:44:07 [Gregg]
ack a
20:44:52 [Tim]
Note: deferred for further study
20:45:15 [Tim]
Topic: testability
20:53:03 [Tim]
Resolution: approve response as amended for issues 2055, 2033, 2065, 2067, 2075, 2092
20:53:40 [Tim]
Topic: Issue 1936: site intimidating
20:54:22 [Tim]
Resolution: approve response to issue 1936 as amended
20:54:50 [Tim]
Topic: issue 1977 - use of null alt
20:57:53 [Tim]
Resolution: approve response to issue 1977 as amended
21:00:11 [Tim]
Topic: issue 1996 - lack of attention to the deaf people needs
21:00:29 [Tim]
Resolution: approve response to issue 1996 as amended
21:01:08 [Tim]
Topic: issue 2035 - (LC-1022) alternative text
21:01:44 [Zakim]
+??P8
21:03:15 [Gregg]
ack a
21:04:13 [aw1]
couldn't find "8" either
21:04:37 [MichaelC]
http://www.w3.org/TR/wcag2-tech-req/#humantestable
21:06:58 [Ben_]
zakim, who is on the phone?
21:06:58 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Roberto_Scano (muted), Bengt_Farre, Cooper, Gregg_Vanderheiden, David_MacDonald, Alex_Li, Tim_Boland, Sean_Hayes, Roberto_Ellero, Loretta_Guarino_Reid,
21:07:01 [Zakim]
... Christophe_Strobbe, Andrew_Kirkpatrick, Sofia_Celic, Bruce, Katie_Haritos-Shea
21:07:02 [Zakim]
Gregg_Vanderheiden has Ben_Caldwell
21:07:03 [David]
[Definition: Reliably Human Testable: The technique can be tested by human inspection and it is believed that at least 80% of knowledgeable human evaluators would agree on the conclusion. The use of probabilistic machine algorithms may facilitate the human testing process but this does not make it machine testable.]
21:07:53 [aw1]
zakim, aw1 is Andrew Kirkpatrick
21:07:53 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'aw1 is Andrew Kirkpatrick', aw1
21:08:22 [David]
q+
21:10:07 [Christophe]
q+ to say: clarify that 80% is not in the WCAG reqs but in the requirements for WCAG *techniques*"
21:10:31 [Gregg]
ack b
21:10:42 [Gregg]
ack ?
21:10:46 [Gregg]
ack d
21:10:48 [Gregg]
ack c
21:10:48 [Zakim]
Christophe, you wanted to say: clarify that 80% is not in the WCAG reqs but in the requirements for WCAG *techniques*"
21:12:16 [Tim]
Resolution: approve response to issue 2035 as amended
21:13:23 [Tim]
Topic: issue 2105 - SC level for 3.1.3
21:13:43 [Loretta]
q+
21:15:56 [Gregg]
ack l
21:17:03 [Tim]
Note: reopened and returned for discussion
21:18:01 [Tim]
Topic: issue 2156 - reading level changed to primary education level
21:19:05 [Loretta]
q+
21:19:28 [Gregg]
ack g
21:19:34 [Gregg]
q+
21:19:39 [David]
q+
21:19:58 [Zakim]
+Cynthia_Shelly
21:21:36 [Loretta]
ack l
21:21:41 [Gregg]
cynthia - we are in July 2 questionaire issue 2156
21:22:09 [Loretta]
ack g
21:23:01 [Loretta]
ack k
21:23:07 [Loretta]
q+ Sean
21:23:14 [Loretta]
ack d
21:23:22 [Ben_]
q+
21:23:33 [Loretta]
ack s
21:24:16 [Gregg]
q+
21:24:46 [Tim]
ack b
21:25:12 [Tim]
ack a
21:25:17 [Loretta]
q+
21:25:38 [Gregg]
ack g
21:26:16 [Zakim]
-Cynthia_Shelly
21:26:31 [Gregg]
ack l
21:26:34 [Loretta]
q+ sean
21:28:08 [Gregg]
ack s
21:29:11 [Gregg]
ack k
21:30:10 [bengt]
q+
21:30:12 [Loretta]
q+
21:30:40 [Loretta]
ack b
21:31:03 [Gregg]
ack l
21:31:09 [David]
http://www.inclusion-europe.org/main.php?lang=EN&level=2&news=ok
21:31:58 [Tim]
Action: Loretta and David to get examples to help us consider issue 2156
21:32:22 [rscano]
rscano has left #wai-wcag
21:33:09 [Zakim]
-Roberto_Scano
21:33:31 [Tim]
Topic: issue 2161 - replace example 4 of SC 3.1.5
21:35:19 [bengt]
yes of both sides ...
21:35:20 [Loretta]
\me Bengt, what about Christophe's comment? Can you direct me to suitable examples from WWAAC?
21:35:30 [Tim]
Resolution: close issue 2161 as proposed subject to request for perimission
21:36:00 [Tim]
Action: Gregg to check permissions for issue 2161
21:36:47 [Tim]
Topic: issue 2257 - readability is broken
21:38:09 [Tim]
Note: 2257 is tied to 2156, which is being held open
21:38:44 [Tim]
Topic: July 3 proposals for July 5 2007
21:39:23 [Ben_]
zakim, close this item
21:39:23 [Zakim]
agendum 3 closed
21:39:24 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
21:39:25 [Zakim]
4. July 3 Proposals for 05 July 2007 [from Ben_]
21:39:28 [Ben_]
zakim, take up agendum 4
21:39:28 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "July 3 Proposals for 05 July 2007" taken up [from Ben_]
21:39:36 [Tim]
Topic: Issue 1925 - problem with H39 description
21:39:58 [Tim]
Resolution: approve response to issue 1925 as amended
21:40:43 [Tim]
Topic: issue 1928 - H74 and H75 - unclear why id attributes should be unique
21:41:38 [Loretta]
q+
21:42:03 [David]
q+
21:42:33 [Loretta]
ack l
21:43:25 [Gregg]
ack d
21:45:14 [Tim]
Action: Ben to review feedback and come up with new proposal
21:46:33 [Tim]
Topic: issue 1944 - add requirements for live audio-only or live video-only content
21:58:21 [Tim]
Resolution: approve response to issue 1944 as amended
22:00:06 [Tim]
Action: Sean to develop understanding document for the new SC in issue 1944
22:00:54 [Tim]
Topic: issue 1958 - is not "naming" a form control a failure?
22:01:19 [Tim]
Resolution: approve response to issue 1958 as amended
22:01:44 [Tim]
Topic: issue 1989 - validity
22:02:45 [Zakim]
+Cynthia_Shelly
22:04:50 [Zakim]
-Christophe_Strobbe
22:05:19 [aw1]
Q+
22:05:43 [Gregg]
ack a
22:08:50 [Zakim]
-Tim_Boland
22:08:53 [Tim]
Resolution: approve response to issue 1989 as amended
22:08:56 [Ben_]
scribe: Loretta
22:09:36 [Loretta]
topic: Issue 2003: Disabled elements should have a lower contrast ratio for the functional purpose of not drawing attention
22:10:50 [Loretta]
q+
22:12:00 [Zakim]
-Bengt_Farre
22:12:08 [bengt]
bengt has left #wai-wcag
22:12:17 [Ben]
Ben has joined #wai-wcag
22:15:02 [Gregg]
ack l
22:16:05 [Loretta]
Referred for further study
22:16:30 [Loretta]
Action item: Sean, Gregg, Ben, Andrew to rework 2003
22:16:51 [Loretta]
topic: Issue 2004, 2101: Support for Learning Disabilities
22:19:06 [aw1]
Sorry, I need to leave early. Talk to you tomorrow.
22:19:22 [aw1]
aw1 has left #wai-WCAG
22:19:23 [Zakim]
-Andrew_Kirkpatrick
22:23:14 [Loretta]
Action item: Loretta to assemble comments and email commenters to get feedback
22:23:51 [Loretta]
topic: Issue 2013: SC 3.3.2 is not testable
22:24:08 [Loretta]
Resolution: accepted as amended
22:24:21 [Loretta]
Topic: Issue 2015: SC 1.3.3 only identifies visual dependencies
22:29:37 [Loretta]
Resolution: accepted as amended
22:29:54 [Loretta]
Topic: Issue 2027: contextual alternative
22:30:43 [Loretta]
q+
22:30:47 [Loretta]
ack c
22:31:58 [Gregg]
ack l
22:38:41 [Loretta]
leave open, assign to Ben
22:39:24 [Loretta]
topic: Issue 2062: SC 4.1.1: Automatic testing
22:41:35 [Zakim]
-Katie_Haritos-Shea
22:42:01 [Loretta]
Resolutino: accept as amended
22:42:21 [Loretta]
s/Resolutino/Resolution
22:42:41 [Gregg]
ack a
22:44:33 [Loretta]
ack s
22:45:23 [Loretta]
ack c
22:46:33 [Loretta]
q+
22:46:37 [Loretta]
ack a
22:47:30 [David]
q+
22:47:32 [Gregg]
ack l
22:48:10 [Loretta]
ack d
22:50:18 [Zakim]
-Roberto_Ellero
22:51:29 [Gregg]
ack b
22:52:19 [Ben]
zakim, who is on the phone?
22:52:19 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Cooper, Gregg_Vanderheiden, David_MacDonald, Alex_Li, Sean_Hayes, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Sofia_Celic, Bruce, Cynthia_Shelly
22:52:21 [Zakim]
Gregg_Vanderheiden has Ben_Caldwell
22:53:20 [Loretta]
action item: alex and david to discuss issues on 2098
22:54:00 [Zakim]
-Cynthia_Shelly
22:54:01 [Loretta]
topic: Issue 2124: under ATAG?
22:54:30 [Zakim]
-Bruce
22:58:54 [Loretta]
Resolution: accept as amended
22:59:08 [Loretta]
topic: Issue 2134: Markup language
23:01:50 [David]
q+
23:02:09 [Loretta]
ack d
23:03:39 [Loretta]
leave open; michael, sean, david to work on this
23:04:44 [Loretta]
Action item: leave 2134 open; michael, sean, david to work on this
23:05:10 [Loretta]
topic: Issue 2146: autoadvance on focus
23:05:59 [Loretta]
Resolution: accept as amended
23:06:11 [Loretta]
topic: Issue 2165: Add video-clips to illustrate solutions
23:06:51 [Loretta]
Resolution: accept as amended
23:07:22 [Loretta]
topic: Issue 2218: Awkward and incomplete wording
23:07:48 [Loretta]
Action item: referred to team handling issue 2134
23:09:25 [Loretta]
topic: Issue 2215: reclassing 3.2.5 from AAA to A
23:09:45 [Loretta]
Resolution: accept as amended
23:11:23 [Ben]
zakim, close this item
23:11:23 [Zakim]
agendum 4 closed
23:11:24 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
23:11:25 [Zakim]
5. July 4 Proposals for 05 July 2007 [from Ben_]
23:11:26 [Ben]
Present: Roberto_Scano, Bengt_Farre, Cooper, Gregg_Vanderheiden, David_MacDonald, Alex_Li, Tim_Boland, Sean_Hayes, Roberto_Ellero, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Christophe_Strobbe, Andrew_Kirkpatrick, Sofia_Celic, Bruce, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Ben_Caldwell
23:11:33 [Ben]
RRSAgent, pointer?
23:11:33 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-wai-wcag-irc#T23-11-33
23:15:35 [Zakim]
-Alex_Li
23:15:48 [Zakim]
-Cooper
23:15:50 [Zakim]
-Loretta_Guarino_Reid
23:15:51 [Zakim]
-Gregg_Vanderheiden
23:15:51 [Zakim]
-Sean_Hayes
23:15:53 [Zakim]
-David_MacDonald
23:16:01 [Zakim]
-Sofia_Celic
23:16:02 [Zakim]
WAI_WCAG()3:00PM has ended
23:16:03 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.240.855.aaaa, Roberto_Scano, Cooper, Bengt_Farre, David_MacDonald, Alex_Li, Bruce, Tim_Boland, +7.971.aabb, Sean_Hayes, [IPcaller], Roberto_Ellero, Ben_Caldwell,
23:16:08 [Zakim]
... Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Christophe_Strobbe, +1.617.584.aacc, Andrew_Kirkpatrick, Sofia_Celic, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Cynthia_Shelly
23:27:16 [Ben]
Ben has joined #wai-wcag
23:34:47 [Ben]
Ben has joined #wai-wcag
23:34:53 [Ben]
zakim, bye
23:34:53 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #wai-wcag
23:34:57 [Ben]
RRSAgent, bye
23:34:57 [RRSAgent]
I see 10 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-wai-wcag-actions.rdf :
23:34:57 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: David and Loretta to rework issue 2006 [1]
23:34:57 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-wai-wcag-irc#T20-33-10
23:34:57 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Loretta and David to get examples to help us consider issue 2156 [2]
23:34:57 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-wai-wcag-irc#T21-31-58
23:34:57 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Gregg to check permissions for issue 2161 [3]
23:34:57 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-wai-wcag-irc#T21-36-00
23:34:57 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ben to review feedback and come up with new proposal [4]
23:34:57 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-wai-wcag-irc#T21-45-14
23:34:57 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Sean to develop understanding document for the new SC in issue 1944 [5]
23:34:57 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-wai-wcag-irc#T22-00-06
23:34:57 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: item to Sean, Gregg, Ben, Andrew to rework 2003 [6]
23:34:57 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-wai-wcag-irc#T22-16-30
23:34:57 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: item to Loretta to assemble comments and email commenters to get feedback [7]
23:34:57 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-wai-wcag-irc#T22-23-14
23:34:57 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: item to alex and david to discuss issues on 2098 [8]
23:34:57 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-wai-wcag-irc#T22-53-20
23:34:57 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: item to leave 2134 open; michael, sean, david to work on this [9]
23:34:57 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-wai-wcag-irc#T23-04-44
23:34:57 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: item to referred to team handling issue 2134 [10]
23:34:57 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/05-wai-wcag-irc#T23-07-48