14:01:12 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #xhtml
14:01:12 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/07/04-xhtml-irc
14:01:28 <Steven> rrsagent, make log public
14:01:32 <Steven> zakim, this is xhtml
14:01:32 <Zakim> ok, Steven; that matches IA_XHTML2()10:00AM
14:01:42 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
14:01:42 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:01:43 <Zakim> - +0138687aaaa
14:01:44 <Zakim> + +0138687aaaa
14:01:45 <Zakim> +Steven
14:01:46 <Steven> zakim, who is here?
14:01:46 <Zakim> On the phone I see +0138687aaaa, Steven (muted)
14:01:47 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, yamx, Roland_, Steven, Charl, krijnh
14:01:49 <Zakim> +??P2
14:02:15 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #xhtml
14:02:24 <Steven> zakim, ??p2 is Roland_
14:02:24 <Zakim> +Roland_; got it
14:02:36 <Steven> zakim, aaaa is Yamx
14:02:36 <Zakim> +Yamx; got it
14:02:49 <Steven> Meeting: Weekly XHTML2 WG Teleconference
14:03:02 <Steven> Chair: Roland, Steven
14:03:24 <Zakim> +ShaneM
14:03:25 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jul/0002
14:03:35 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jul/0002
14:05:24 <markbirbeck> markbirbeck has joined #xhtml
14:05:57 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:05:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/04-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
14:06:28 <markbirbeck> zakim, numbers
14:06:28 <Zakim> I don't understand 'numbers', markbirbeck
14:06:37 <Steven> zakim, code?
14:06:37 <Zakim> the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Steven
14:06:42 <markbirbeck> ah :)
14:06:53 <markbirbeck> Trying to find the UK one.
14:06:54 <markbirbeck> ta
14:07:24 <Steven> Regrets: Rich, Alessio
14:07:53 <Zakim> + +1.208.761.aabb
14:08:08 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am aa
14:08:09 <Zakim> sorry, markbirbeck, I do not see a party named 'aa'
14:08:25 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am aabb
14:08:25 <Zakim> +markbirbeck; got it
14:08:37 <Steven> Topic: Welcome Roland
14:09:12 <Steven> Scribe: Steven
14:09:24 <Steven> Roland: I work for IBM UK
14:09:30 <Steven> ... in the past worked on XForms
14:09:35 <Steven> ... and device independence
14:09:50 <Steven> ... now back to W3C to co-chair this group, and more interesting work
14:10:54 <Steven> Topic: New member
14:11:06 <Steven> Steven: A new company is joining
14:11:35 <Steven> ... a Japanese company
14:12:19 <Steven> (machine running slowly, sorry)
14:12:58 <Steven> ... Mitsue-links Co Ltd
14:13:23 <Steven> Topics: Announcements
14:13:39 <Steven> Steven: Tweo new questionnaires
14:13:45 <Steven> ... one for forthcoming calls
14:13:49 <Steven> ... one for FtF
14:14:26 <Steven> Topic: GRDDL
14:14:42 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jun/0027.html
14:15:32 <Steven> Shane: I thought it was due a week from today
14:15:45 <Steven> ... I will do it this week
14:15:53 <Lachy> Lachy has joined #xhtml
14:16:07 <Steven> Steven: I will send an apology that we are running late
14:16:36 <Steven> Topic: Wiki/blog
14:19:24 <Steven> Steven: There are a few possibilities. I've been talking to vcarious people round W3C
14:19:40 <Steven> ... b2evolution, moinmoin. Mediawiki may be installed sometime soon
14:19:57 <Steven> Roland: Moinmoin is OK
14:20:07 <Steven> Shane: We could restyle it, if we don't like the style
14:20:45 <Steven> Roland: There might be a danger in being the first to use a new system
14:21:29 <Steven> ACTION: Steven request a moinmoin instance
14:21:52 <Steven> Topic: Role and access
14:22:36 <Steven> Steven: Rich sent this message: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jul/0001.html
14:23:57 <Steven> Shane: The small issue is what we want to say about an access element that doesn't specify a key attribute
14:25:59 <Steven> Steven: The UA is allowed to override the key anyway, so binding a key when it is not specified should be fine
14:26:21 <Steven> Roland: Some UAs will bind to softkeys
14:26:54 <Steven> Steven: And UAs will likely bind well-knoiw roles to standard keys
14:27:18 <Steven> Steven: So I think we agree with Rich's comment
14:27:36 <Steven> Shane: There are two optional attributes as well, targetrole and targetid.
14:27:45 <Steven> ... If neither is specified, what does it mean?
14:28:03 <Steven> ... It could mean that the current element is the place where the event is raised
14:28:14 <Steven> s/element/focus point/
14:28:29 <Steven> ... (no use case for that though)
14:28:46 <Steven> ... or say "undefined" or "nothing happens".
14:28:53 <Steven> ... Any opinions?
14:29:04 <Steven> Roland: I wouldn't like it to be undefined.
14:29:08 <Steven> Steven: Me neither
14:29:25 <Steven> Shane: Or we could require one to be specified
14:29:40 <Steven> ... but we couldn't validate that
14:29:48 <Steven> Roland: Relax NG could
14:29:57 <Steven> Shane: But not he W3C validator
14:30:03 <Steven> s/ he / the /
14:30:28 <Steven> Steven: True, but that shouldn't drive our design
14:30:48 <Steven> Shane: So what do we think?
14:32:58 <Steven> ... It could be useful to be able to raise an event without specifying target
14:33:31 <Steven> Steven: But it would be just as easy by saying what the target is
14:33:38 <Steven> Shane: Well, there is the focus issue
14:34:44 <Steven> ... does raising a DOMActivate also change the focus?
14:35:18 <Steven> Mark: I think it should get focus as well
14:35:21 <Steven> Shane: So do I
14:37:06 <Steven> Steven: Why do you care?
14:37:17 <Steven> Shane: Well, if the link goes to another window
14:42:09 <Steven> Mark: It depends on how you interpret DOMActivate
14:42:26 <Steven> ... I think DOM2 Events is too vague to be sure whether the control has focus already
14:42:42 <Steven> ... Is DOMACtivate a notification or an action?
14:43:59 <Steven> Steven: But you can cancel a DOMActivate
14:44:05 <Steven> ... which stops default processing
14:45:18 <Steven> Roland: DOMFocusIn is not cancellable on the other hand
14:45:29 <Steven> Roland: DOMFocusIn is not cancellable on the other hand
14:46:07 <Steven> ... which suggests that you can't use DOMFocusIn to set focus
14:46:16 <Steven> ... it is only notification that it has happenend
14:46:49 <Steven> Shane: I noticed that; the only alternative is 'focus', but that is only valid on a small subset of elements
14:47:25 <Steven> "This event is valid for the following elements: LABEL, INPUT, SELECT, TEXTAREA, and BUTTON"
14:49:34 <Steven> Mark: The only two use cases we know of are "Give focus" and "Give focus and activate"
14:49:38 <Tina> Tina has joined #xhtml
14:49:44 <Steven> Steven: So maybe "raise" is too general
14:49:53 <Steven> ... maybe we should just say those two things
14:50:27 <Steven> ... or say that focus is always given, and then 'raise' gives an additional optional event
14:51:29 <Steven> Mark: Or an attribute that is default giving focus, and allows you to specify activations
14:51:53 <Steven> ... the default behaviour for role and id is surely different
14:52:04 <Steven> ... for role it is always focus
14:52:13 <Steven> ... but for id it doesn't have to
14:52:29 <Steven> Shane: I don't want to special case it
14:52:47 <Steven> Shane: Shouldn't targetid be a list?
14:52:50 <Steven> Mark: Cute
14:54:26 <Steven> Shane: Would it be the next id in the list, or the next id in the list in document sequence?
14:55:04 <Steven> Mark: So tab gets you onto a route now (with next focus) and this way any key could put you on a route
14:55:52 <Steven> SHane: Shall I spec it up?
14:55:56 <Steven> s/SH/Sh/
14:56:14 <Steven> Steven: Send it to the list, I wouldn't want to add it to the spec before Rich has seen it
14:56:49 <Steven> Shane: I think we agreed that an unsepcified key will then be assigned by the UA, and you must either specify a targetid or a targetrole
14:56:53 <Steven> Steven: Yes
14:58:37 <Steven> Steven: Out of time. Let's talk longdes next week (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html/2007Jul/thread.html#msg0)
14:58:47 <Steven> s/longdes/longdesc/
14:58:55 <Steven> ... since we have a rather good solution already
15:00:11 <Steven> Roland: 3.1.1 says something about id attribute; does that include xml:id
15:00:54 <Zakim> -ShaneM
15:00:55 <Zakim> -Steven
15:00:56 <Roland_> Roland_ has left #xhtml
15:00:57 <Zakim> -markbirbeck
15:00:58 <Zakim> -Yamx
15:01:02 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()10:00AM has ended
15:01:04 <Zakim> Attendees were +0138687aaaa, Steven, Roland_, Yamx, ShaneM, +1.208.761.aabb, markbirbeck
15:01:11 <Steven> Steven: We ought to accomodate xml:id; use whatever XML uses to describe the id-ness of an element, and not restrict it to id attributes
15:01:19 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:01:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/04-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
15:02:03 <Steven> s/Topics:/Topic:/
15:02:29 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:02:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/04-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
15:02:48 <Steven> s/tweo/two/
15:02:52 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:02:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/04-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
15:03:18 <Steven> s/Tweo/Two/
15:03:23 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:03:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/04-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
15:17:35 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #xhtml
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