IRC log of xhtml on 2007-07-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:01:12 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #xhtml
14:01:12 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/07/04-xhtml-irc
14:01:28 [Steven]
rrsagent, make log public
14:01:32 [Steven]
zakim, this is xhtml
14:01:32 [Zakim]
ok, Steven; that matches IA_XHTML2()10:00AM
14:01:42 [Steven]
zakim, dial steven-617
14:01:42 [Zakim]
ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:01:43 [Zakim]
- +0138687aaaa
14:01:44 [Zakim]
+ +0138687aaaa
14:01:45 [Zakim]
+Steven
14:01:46 [Steven]
zakim, who is here?
14:01:46 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +0138687aaaa, Steven (muted)
14:01:47 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, yamx, Roland_, Steven, Charl, krijnh
14:01:49 [Zakim]
+??P2
14:02:15 [ShaneM]
ShaneM has joined #xhtml
14:02:24 [Steven]
zakim, ??p2 is Roland_
14:02:24 [Zakim]
+Roland_; got it
14:02:36 [Steven]
zakim, aaaa is Yamx
14:02:36 [Zakim]
+Yamx; got it
14:02:49 [Steven]
Meeting: Weekly XHTML2 WG Teleconference
14:03:02 [Steven]
Chair: Roland, Steven
14:03:24 [Zakim]
+ShaneM
14:03:25 [Steven]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jul/0002
14:03:35 [Steven]
Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jul/0002
14:05:24 [markbirbeck]
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14:05:57 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:05:57 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/04-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
14:06:28 [markbirbeck]
zakim, numbers
14:06:28 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'numbers', markbirbeck
14:06:37 [Steven]
zakim, code?
14:06:37 [Zakim]
the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Steven
14:06:42 [markbirbeck]
ah :)
14:06:53 [markbirbeck]
Trying to find the UK one.
14:06:54 [markbirbeck]
ta
14:07:24 [Steven]
Regrets: Rich, Alessio
14:07:53 [Zakim]
+ +1.208.761.aabb
14:08:08 [markbirbeck]
zakim, i am aa
14:08:09 [Zakim]
sorry, markbirbeck, I do not see a party named 'aa'
14:08:25 [markbirbeck]
zakim, i am aabb
14:08:25 [Zakim]
+markbirbeck; got it
14:08:37 [Steven]
Topic: Welcome Roland
14:09:12 [Steven]
Scribe: Steven
14:09:24 [Steven]
Roland: I work for IBM UK
14:09:30 [Steven]
... in the past worked on XForms
14:09:35 [Steven]
... and device independence
14:09:50 [Steven]
... now back to W3C to co-chair this group, and more interesting work
14:10:54 [Steven]
Topic: New member
14:11:06 [Steven]
Steven: A new company is joining
14:11:35 [Steven]
... a Japanese company
14:12:19 [Steven]
(machine running slowly, sorry)
14:12:58 [Steven]
... Mitsue-links Co Ltd
14:13:23 [Steven]
Topics: Announcements
14:13:39 [Steven]
Steven: Tweo new questionnaires
14:13:45 [Steven]
... one for forthcoming calls
14:13:49 [Steven]
... one for FtF
14:14:26 [Steven]
Topic: GRDDL
14:14:42 [Steven]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jun/0027.html
14:15:32 [Steven]
Shane: I thought it was due a week from today
14:15:45 [Steven]
... I will do it this week
14:15:53 [Lachy]
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14:16:07 [Steven]
Steven: I will send an apology that we are running late
14:16:36 [Steven]
Topic: Wiki/blog
14:19:24 [Steven]
Steven: There are a few possibilities. I've been talking to vcarious people round W3C
14:19:40 [Steven]
... b2evolution, moinmoin. Mediawiki may be installed sometime soon
14:19:57 [Steven]
Roland: Moinmoin is OK
14:20:07 [Steven]
Shane: We could restyle it, if we don't like the style
14:20:45 [Steven]
Roland: There might be a danger in being the first to use a new system
14:21:29 [Steven]
ACTION: Steven request a moinmoin instance
14:21:52 [Steven]
Topic: Role and access
14:22:36 [Steven]
Steven: Rich sent this message: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Jul/0001.html
14:23:57 [Steven]
Shane: The small issue is what we want to say about an access element that doesn't specify a key attribute
14:25:59 [Steven]
Steven: The UA is allowed to override the key anyway, so binding a key when it is not specified should be fine
14:26:21 [Steven]
Roland: Some UAs will bind to softkeys
14:26:54 [Steven]
Steven: And UAs will likely bind well-knoiw roles to standard keys
14:27:18 [Steven]
Steven: So I think we agree with Rich's comment
14:27:36 [Steven]
Shane: There are two optional attributes as well, targetrole and targetid.
14:27:45 [Steven]
... If neither is specified, what does it mean?
14:28:03 [Steven]
... It could mean that the current element is the place where the event is raised
14:28:14 [Steven]
s/element/focus point/
14:28:29 [Steven]
... (no use case for that though)
14:28:46 [Steven]
... or say "undefined" or "nothing happens".
14:28:53 [Steven]
... Any opinions?
14:29:04 [Steven]
Roland: I wouldn't like it to be undefined.
14:29:08 [Steven]
Steven: Me neither
14:29:25 [Steven]
Shane: Or we could require one to be specified
14:29:40 [Steven]
... but we couldn't validate that
14:29:48 [Steven]
Roland: Relax NG could
14:29:57 [Steven]
Shane: But not he W3C validator
14:30:03 [Steven]
s/ he / the /
14:30:28 [Steven]
Steven: True, but that shouldn't drive our design
14:30:48 [Steven]
Shane: So what do we think?
14:32:58 [Steven]
... It could be useful to be able to raise an event without specifying target
14:33:31 [Steven]
Steven: But it would be just as easy by saying what the target is
14:33:38 [Steven]
Shane: Well, there is the focus issue
14:34:44 [Steven]
... does raising a DOMActivate also change the focus?
14:35:18 [Steven]
Mark: I think it should get focus as well
14:35:21 [Steven]
Shane: So do I
14:37:06 [Steven]
Steven: Why do you care?
14:37:17 [Steven]
Shane: Well, if the link goes to another window
14:42:09 [Steven]
Mark: It depends on how you interpret DOMActivate
14:42:26 [Steven]
... I think DOM2 Events is too vague to be sure whether the control has focus already
14:42:42 [Steven]
... Is DOMACtivate a notification or an action?
14:43:59 [Steven]
Steven: But you can cancel a DOMActivate
14:44:05 [Steven]
... which stops default processing
14:45:18 [Steven]
Roland: DOMFocusIn is not cancellable on the other hand
14:45:29 [Steven]
Roland: DOMFocusIn is not cancellable on the other hand
14:46:07 [Steven]
... which suggests that you can't use DOMFocusIn to set focus
14:46:16 [Steven]
... it is only notification that it has happenend
14:46:49 [Steven]
Shane: I noticed that; the only alternative is 'focus', but that is only valid on a small subset of elements
14:47:25 [Steven]
"This event is valid for the following elements: LABEL, INPUT, SELECT, TEXTAREA, and BUTTON"
14:49:34 [Steven]
Mark: The only two use cases we know of are "Give focus" and "Give focus and activate"
14:49:38 [Tina]
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14:49:44 [Steven]
Steven: So maybe "raise" is too general
14:49:53 [Steven]
... maybe we should just say those two things
14:50:27 [Steven]
... or say that focus is always given, and then 'raise' gives an additional optional event
14:51:29 [Steven]
Mark: Or an attribute that is default giving focus, and allows you to specify activations
14:51:53 [Steven]
... the default behaviour for role and id is surely different
14:52:04 [Steven]
... for role it is always focus
14:52:13 [Steven]
... but for id it doesn't have to
14:52:29 [Steven]
Shane: I don't want to special case it
14:52:47 [Steven]
Shane: Shouldn't targetid be a list?
14:52:50 [Steven]
Mark: Cute
14:54:26 [Steven]
Shane: Would it be the next id in the list, or the next id in the list in document sequence?
14:55:04 [Steven]
Mark: So tab gets you onto a route now (with next focus) and this way any key could put you on a route
14:55:52 [Steven]
SHane: Shall I spec it up?
14:55:56 [Steven]
s/SH/Sh/
14:56:14 [Steven]
Steven: Send it to the list, I wouldn't want to add it to the spec before Rich has seen it
14:56:49 [Steven]
Shane: I think we agreed that an unsepcified key will then be assigned by the UA, and you must either specify a targetid or a targetrole
14:56:53 [Steven]
Steven: Yes
14:58:37 [Steven]
Steven: Out of time. Let's talk longdes next week (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html/2007Jul/thread.html#msg0)
14:58:47 [Steven]
s/longdes/longdesc/
14:58:55 [Steven]
... since we have a rather good solution already
15:00:11 [Steven]
Roland: 3.1.1 says something about id attribute; does that include xml:id
15:00:54 [Zakim]
-ShaneM
15:00:55 [Zakim]
-Steven
15:00:56 [Roland_]
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-markbirbeck
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-Yamx
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IA_XHTML2()10:00AM has ended
15:01:04 [Zakim]
Attendees were +0138687aaaa, Steven, Roland_, Yamx, ShaneM, +1.208.761.aabb, markbirbeck
15:01:11 [Steven]
Steven: We ought to accomodate xml:id; use whatever XML uses to describe the id-ness of an element, and not restrict it to id attributes
15:01:19 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:01:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/04-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
15:02:03 [Steven]
s/Topics:/Topic:/
15:02:29 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:02:29 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/04-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
15:02:48 [Steven]
s/tweo/two/
15:02:52 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:02:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/04-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
15:03:18 [Steven]
s/Tweo/Two/
15:03:23 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:03:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/04-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
15:17:35 [ShaneM]
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