IRC log of swd on 2007-06-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:27:29 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #swd

14:27:29 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/06/26-swd-irc

14:27:35 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #swd

14:27:40 [mhausenblas]

zakim, this will be SW_SWD

14:27:40 [Zakim]

ok, mhausenblas; I see SW_SWD()11:00AM scheduled to start in 33 minutes

14:27:54 [mhausenblas]

Meeting: Semantic Web Deployment Working Group - Telecon 2007-06-26, 15:00 UTC

14:28:03 [mhausenblas]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jun/0151.html

14:28:10 [mhausenblas]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jun/0151.html

14:28:17 [mhausenblas]

rrsagent, please make record public

14:28:28 [mhausenblas]

-> http://www.w3.org/2007/06/19-swd-minutes previous 2007-06-19

14:28:38 [mhausenblas]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

14:28:38 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/06/26-swd-minutes.html mhausenblas

14:29:13 [mhausenblas]

rrsagent, make logs public

14:29:58 [mhausenblas]

Chair: Guus_Schreiber

14:30:03 [mhausenblas]

ScribeNick: Michael_Hausenblas

14:30:17 [mhausenblas]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

14:30:17 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/06/26-swd-minutes.html mhausenblas

14:30:41 [mhausenblas]

ScribeNick: mhausenblas

14:31:05 [mhausenblas]

rrsagent, please make record public

14:46:06 [TomB]

TomB has joined #swd

14:48:49 [RalphS]

RalphS has joined #swd

14:50:00 [Zakim]

SW_SWD()11:00AM has now started

14:50:06 [Zakim]

+??P10

14:50:49 [TomB]

zakim, ??P10 is TomB

14:50:49 [Zakim]

+TomB; got it

14:54:10 [mhausenblas]

mhausenblas has joined #swd

14:54:26 [mhausenblas]

Zakim, who's here?

14:54:26 [Zakim]

On the phone I see TomB

14:54:27 [Zakim]

On IRC I see mhausenblas, RalphS, TomB, Zakim, RRSAgent

14:55:09 [TomB]

rrsagent, bookmark

14:55:09 [RRSAgent]

See http://www.w3.org/2007/06/26-swd-irc#T14-55-09

14:55:15 [TomB]

zakim, this will be swd

14:55:15 [Zakim]

ok, TomB, I see SW_SWD()11:00AM already started

14:55:21 [TomB]

Meeting: SWD WG

14:55:28 [TomB]

Chair: Tom

14:55:30 [Zakim]

+mhausenblas

14:56:01 [mhausenblas]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

14:56:01 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/06/26-swd-minutes.html mhausenblas

14:56:34 [RalphS]

kudos, Michael, for preparing the agents well before the start of the meeting :)

14:57:58 [JonP]

JonP has joined #swd

14:58:20 [TomB]

RalphS, my command Chair: Tom was captured as a comment in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/26-swd-minutes.html , not as a command...?

14:59:24 [Zakim]

+Ralph

14:59:36 [berrueta]

berrueta has joined #swd

14:59:44 [Bern]

Bern has joined #swd

14:59:58 [mhausenblas]

regrets+ Simone_Onofri

15:00:04 [Zakim]

+[LC]

15:00:07 [Clay]

Clay has joined #swd

15:00:18 [RalphS]

zakim, LC is Clay

15:00:18 [Zakim]

+Clay; got it

15:00:25 [Zakim]

+Bernard

15:00:31 [mhausenblas]

regrets+ Ed_Summers

15:00:41 [Zakim]

+Guus_Schreiber

15:00:52 [Zakim]

+??P29

15:01:01 [RalphS]

zakim, ??p29 is Diego

15:01:01 [Zakim]

+Diego; got it

15:01:07 [Zakim]

+[LC]

15:01:12 [Zakim]

+Jon_Phipps

15:01:34 [JonP]

zakim, Jon_Phipps is me

15:01:35 [Zakim]

+JonP; got it

15:01:41 [vit]

vit has joined #swd

15:02:06 [RalphS]

zakim, LC is Justin

15:02:06 [Zakim]

+Justin; got it

15:02:10 [Antoine]

Antoine has joined #swd

15:02:10 [Zakim]

-Guus_Schreiber

15:02:17 [Elisa]

Elisa has joined #swd

15:03:10 [seanb]

seanb has joined #swd

15:03:10 [RalphS]

Regrets+ Guus

15:03:15 [Zakim]

+??P26

15:03:21 [RalphS]

zakim, ??p26 is Antoine

15:03:22 [Zakim]

+Antoine; got it

15:03:32 [aliman]

aliman has joined #swd

15:04:10 [Zakim]

+Elisa_Kendall

15:04:12 [Zakim]

+??P38

15:04:23 [RalphS]

zakim, ??p38 is Sean

15:04:23 [Zakim]

+Sean; got it

15:04:32 [Zakim]

+??P36

15:04:34 [Zakim]

+??P40

15:04:43 [RalphS]

zakim, ??p36 is Alistair

15:04:43 [Zakim]

+Alistair; got it

15:04:46 [RalphS]

zakim, ??p40 is Vit

15:04:46 [Zakim]

+Vit; got it

15:04:55 [mhausenblas]

Zakim, who's here?

15:04:55 [Zakim]

On the phone I see TomB, mhausenblas, Ralph, Clay, Bernard, Diego, Justin, JonP, Antoine, Elisa_Kendall, Sean, Alistair, Vit

15:04:59 [Zakim]

On IRC I see aliman, seanb, Elisa, Antoine, vit, Clay, Bern, berrueta, JonP, mhausenblas, RalphS, TomB, Zakim, RRSAgent

15:05:10 [mhausenblas]

Topic: 1. ADMIN

15:05:18 [mhausenblas]

PROPOSED to accept minutes of -> http://www.w3.org/2007/06/19-swd-minutes.html 19 June telecon

15:05:32 [mhausenblas]

RESOLUTION: accepted minutes of 19 June

15:05:38 [mhausenblas]

upcoming telecon: 3 July

15:05:48 [mhausenblas]

Tom: face-to-face meeting

15:06:01 [mhausenblas]

Topic 2. SKOS

15:06:07 [mhausenblas]

-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/Deliverables#SKOS SKOS

15:06:22 [mhausenblas]

ACTION: aliman to provide examples of cases where presentational information is required [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/19-swd-minutes.html#action10]

15:06:24 [mhausenblas]

-- done

15:06:41 [Zakim]

+??P2

15:06:45 [dlrubin]

dlrubin has joined #swd

15:06:49 [mhausenblas]

ACTION: seanb to create the template for test cases in the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/19-swd-minutes.html#action04]

15:06:52 [mhausenblas]

-- done

15:07:09 [aliman]

-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SkosDesign/PresentationInformation discussion of presentation information and defining the scope of SKOS

15:07:22 [TomB]

http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SkosTestTemplate

15:07:50 [mhausenblas]

Tom: Discussion on SKOS implementation on list

15:07:59 [mhausenblas]

... postpone till next week

15:08:02 [mhausenblas]

ACTION: Ralph to update SKOS pages to point to UCR [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/05-swd-minutes.html#action01]

15:08:08 [mhausenblas]

-- done

15:08:09 [RalphS]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jun/0041.html Re: [SKOS] Links to SKOS UCR WD [ACTION completed]

15:08:22 [mhausenblas]

-- Issue-26: RelationshipsBetweenLabels (http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/26)

15:08:45 [mhausenblas]

Tom: Talked with Guus; he wants to fup on the proposal

15:08:51 [mhausenblas]

... any comments, yet?

15:09:15 [mhausenblas]

Antoine: Usability issues

15:09:38 [mhausenblas]

Issue-33: Grouping Construct (http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/33)

15:10:45 [mhausenblas]

Alistair: Made a proposal, waiting for feedback

15:11:26 [mhausenblas]

... to sum up: discussed two well known ways of display

15:11:40 [mhausenblas]

... alphabetic or systematic

15:11:56 [mhausenblas]

... proposed therefore two statements

15:13:15 [Zakim]

-Alistair

15:13:43 [Zakim]

+??P34

15:13:53 [RalphS]

zakim, ??p34 is Alistair

15:13:53 [Zakim]

+Alistair; got it

15:14:26 [mhausenblas]

sorry I got no signals, here :(

15:14:33 [mhausenblas]

can't here anyone

15:14:40 [RalphS]

scribenick: Ralhp

15:14:44 [RalphS]

scribenick: RalphS

15:15:08 [Zakim]

-mhausenblas

15:15:11 [RalphS]

Alistair: I proposed the statement "The WG MAY publish an algorithm to generate a systematic display"

15:15:14 [aliman]

Styles and Periods

15:15:15 [aliman]

<styles and periods by region>

15:15:17 [aliman]

<The Islamic World>

15:15:18 [aliman]

Saracenic

15:15:20 [aliman]

pre-Islamic

15:15:21 [aliman]

<Islamic World dynastic styles and periods>

15:15:23 [aliman]

Orthodox Caliphate

15:15:24 [aliman]

Umayyad

15:15:26 [aliman]

Abbasid

15:15:31 [Zakim]

+??P13

15:15:34 [RalphS]

Alistair: so taking Antoine's challenge example with nested node labels,

15:15:56 [RalphS]

... if we accept the resolution for grouping constructs you could specify an algorith to generate this nesting display

15:16:23 [RalphS]

... many thesauri may have to generate this display in parallel anyway because there are so many techniques for doing so

15:16:51 [RalphS]

... we could propose an algorithm for generating a default display

15:17:19 [RalphS]

... but many thesauri may choose to send their own display information outside of SKOS because they have their own preferred display

15:17:33 [RalphS]

zakim, p13 is Michael

15:17:33 [Zakim]

sorry, RalphS, I do not recognize a party named 'p13'

15:17:36 [RalphS]

zakim, ??p13 is Michael

15:17:36 [Zakim]

+Michael; got it

15:17:51 [RalphS]

scribenick: mhausenblas

15:18:19 [mhausenblas]

XXX: What style of information in SKOS

15:18:26 [RalphS]

s/XXX/Bernard/

15:19:21 [mhausenblas]

Alistair: Algorithm for default generation, but do not expect SKOS to do everything

15:19:35 [mhausenblas]

... reqa are to represent the model

15:19:45 [mhausenblas]

s/reqa/requirements

15:20:50 [aliman]

http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SkosDesign/PresentationInformation

15:20:55 [mhausenblas]

Tom: Aim is to agree on statements?

15:21:32 [aliman]

http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SKOS/Semantics/Grouping

15:22:04 [RalphS]

Alistair: I am proposing SKOS/Semantics/Grouping as the resolution for ISSUE-33

15:22:28 [aliman]

http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SkosDesign/PresentationInformation

15:24:02 [mhausenblas]

ACTION: Alistair to post the proposal to the list

15:24:29 [mhausenblas]

Tom: Discussion on relation foaf:Person and skos:Concept - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jun/0115.html

15:24:37 [mhausenblas]

... any comments?

15:25:12 [RalphS]

s/the proposal/the proposed resolution to ISSUE-33 and systematic display/

15:25:34 [mhausenblas]

Antoine: Kjetil wants to link tag to description and/or person

15:27:36 [mhausenblas]

... might be possible to do via defined property

15:28:27 [mhausenblas]

Alistair: DanBri and I had a discussion some while ago

15:28:49 [mhausenblas]

... some kind of solution is layers of indirections

15:29:11 [mhausenblas]

... we have not got any UC for this req

15:29:31 [Antoine]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jun/0077.html

15:29:42 [mhausenblas]

... we should put it on the agenda, anyway

15:30:57 [mhausenblas]

... question also tackles if we stay within OWL-DL

15:33:33 [mhausenblas]

Tom: No core issue ... Antoine?

15:34:29 [mhausenblas]

Antoine: For example in the medical domain, I gathered some interest

15:34:42 [aliman]

q+ to say something about the SKOS semantics doc

15:34:46 [Bern]

q+ to ask if this is in scope

15:35:12 [RalphS]

Clay: Librarians would be interested in this capability as well

15:35:17 [mhausenblas]

Alistair: In scope

15:35:44 [mhausenblas]

... it is important (cf. design patterns)

15:36:38 [mhausenblas]

Tom: So, we put SKOS semantics on the agenda

15:37:38 [aliman]

q+ to comment on scope

15:37:51 [mhausenblas]

Bern: Is it really in scope or better have it as a note

15:37:56 [TomB]

ack aliman

15:37:56 [Zakim]

aliman, you wanted to say something about the SKOS semantics doc and to comment on scope

15:38:03 [TomB]

ack Bern

15:38:03 [Zakim]

Bern, you wanted to ask if this is in scope

15:38:43 [mhausenblas]

XXX: Informative document preferred

15:41:43 [RalphS]

s/XXX/Alistair/

15:41:56 [RalphS]

Alistair: design patterns could be part of the informative documentaiton

15:42:28 [mhausenblas]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

15:42:28 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/06/26-swd-minutes.html mhausenblas

15:43:49 [RalphS]

Chair: Tom

15:43:51 [mhausenblas]

Topic 3. RECIPES

15:43:54 [Zakim]

-TomB

15:44:12 [mhausenblas]

-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/Deliverables#Recipes Recipes

15:44:20 [mhausenblas]

ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to Recipe issue 1.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-swd-minutes.html#action09]

15:44:26 [mhausenblas]

-- continues

15:44:44 [mhausenblas]

Chair: Elisa

15:44:58 [mhausenblas]

Topic 4. VOCABULARY MANAGEMENT

15:44:59 [RalphS]

Chair: Tom

15:45:10 [Zakim]

+??P1

15:45:18 [mhausenblas]

-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/Deliverables#VocabularyMgt VocabularyMgt

15:45:27 [mhausenblas]

Current draft is http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/VocabMgtDraft

15:45:39 [mhausenblas]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jun/0013.html Discussion on URLs and URIs

15:46:00 [mhausenblas]

Elisa: We use URIs

15:46:38 [mhausenblas]

... issues: ownership, permanence, etc.

15:47:14 [mhausenblas]

... we use some of the onto URI from the DAML project

15:47:44 [mhausenblas]

Ralph: W3C took over DAML.org

15:47:59 [RalphS]

s/W3C/MIT/

15:48:13 [mhausenblas]

Elisa: E.g. with OWL-S

15:48:51 [mhausenblas]

... somehow you get to the time onto (from J. Pan)

15:49:25 [RalphS]

q+ to ask what "no longer work" means

15:49:56 [mhausenblas]

... a question about commitment

15:50:52 [mhausenblas]

... many discussion on semantic-web@w3

15:51:20 [mhausenblas]

Elisa: Idea is to come up with a short list

15:51:31 [mhausenblas]

... of the issues, make a survey

15:51:41 [mhausenblas]

... for now: gather ideas

15:52:19 [mhausenblas]

Tom: What kind of process to apply?

15:52:27 [dlrubin]

dlrubin has left #swd

15:52:43 [mhausenblas]

... are telecons good for brainstorming?

15:52:52 [mhausenblas]

... given the limited time

15:53:06 [mhausenblas]

... not - better through mailing list

15:54:15 [TomB]

ack RalphS

15:54:15 [Zakim]

RalphS, you wanted to ask what "no longer work" means

15:55:59 [mhausenblas]

Elisa: I'd like to use the telecon for raising awareness

15:56:24 [mhausenblas]

Tom: Suggest to point the group to a Wiki page, beforehand

15:57:01 [mhausenblas]

... citing from IRC while discussion

15:57:46 [mhausenblas]

Tom: Might be good to have a default text

15:58:12 [mhausenblas]

... to sum up issues to focus the discussion

15:58:47 [RalphS]

Elisa, you suggested that some ontologies on daml.org were no longer working. Could you followup, please, and let me know if there are HTTP-level issues (i.e. server problems) or data obsolescence issues (i.e. a schema or ontology document has gone too far out of date)

15:59:04 [RalphS]

zakim, who's on the call?

15:59:04 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Ralph, Clay, Bernard, Diego, Justin, JonP, Antoine, Elisa_Kendall, Sean, Vit, ??P2, Alistair, Michael, TomB

15:59:50 [Zakim]

-Bernard

16:00:37 [RalphS]

zakim, ??p2 is Daniel

16:00:37 [Zakim]

+Daniel; got it

16:00:51 [RalphS]

zakim, list attendees

16:00:51 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been TomB, mhausenblas, Ralph, Clay, Bernard, Guus_Schreiber, Diego, JonP, Justin, Antoine, Elisa_Kendall, Sean, Alistair, Vit, Michael, Daniel

16:01:07 [mhausenblas]

Topic 5. RDFa

16:01:16 [mhausenblas]

Tom: Ben has reported

16:01:40 [RalphS]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jun/0155.html An Update on RDFa Schedule and Docs

16:01:43 [Zakim]

-Antoine

16:01:44 [seanb]

seanb has left #swd

16:01:45 [Zakim]

-Daniel

16:01:47 [Zakim]

-Justin

16:01:47 [Antoine]

Antoine has left #swd

16:01:49 [Zakim]

-Sean

16:01:55 [Zakim]

-Diego

16:02:28 [mhausenblas]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

16:02:28 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/06/26-swd-minutes.html mhausenblas

16:02:54 [Zakim]

-Michael

16:03:40 [Zakim]

-Clay

16:04:38 [mhausenblas]

RRSAgent, make logs public

16:17:10 [RalphS]

see "4. Namespace Changes over Time" in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/13-nsuri

16:24:27 [RalphS]

http://metadataregistry.org/

16:26:05 [Zakim]

-Alistair

16:26:07 [Zakim]

-Elisa_Kendall

16:26:10 [Zakim]

-Vit

16:26:12 [Zakim]

-Ralph

16:26:14 [Zakim]

-JonP

16:26:25 [Zakim]

-TomB

16:26:26 [Zakim]

SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended

16:26:27 [Zakim]

Attendees were TomB, mhausenblas, Ralph, Clay, Bernard, Guus_Schreiber, Diego, JonP, Justin, Antoine, Elisa_Kendall, Sean, Alistair, Vit, Michael, Daniel

16:26:58 [RalphS]

zakim, bye

16:26:58 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #swd

16:27:04 [RalphS]

rrsagent, bye

16:27:04 [RRSAgent]

I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/26-swd-actions.rdf :

16:27:04 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: aliman to provide examples of cases where presentational information is required [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/19-swd-minutes.html#action10] [1]

16:27:04 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/26-swd-irc#T15-06-22

16:27:04 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: seanb to create the template for test cases in the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/19-swd-minutes.html#action04] [2]

16:27:04 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/26-swd-irc#T15-06-49

16:27:04 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ralph to update SKOS pages to point to UCR [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/05-swd-minutes.html#action01] [3]

16:27:04 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/26-swd-irc#T15-08-02

16:27:04 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Alistair to post the proposal to the list [4]

16:27:04 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/26-swd-irc#T15-24-02

16:27:04 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to Recipe issue 1.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-swd-minutes.html#action09] [5]

16:27:04 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/26-swd-irc#T15-44-20