IRC log of xhtml on 2007-06-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:50:29 [RRSAgent]
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13:50:29 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:50:39 [Steven]
rrsagent, make log public
13:50:47 [Steven]
zakim, this will be xhtml
13:50:47 [Zakim]
ok, Steven; I see IA_XHTML2()10:00AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes
13:51:01 [Steven]
Meeting: Weekly XHTML2 WG Teleconference
13:51:33 [Steven]
Regrets: Susan, Alessio
13:51:55 [Steven]
13:52:04 [Steven]
Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda:
13:52:52 [Steven]
-> Previous
13:54:15 [Tina]
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13:59:47 [Steven]
zakim, call steven-617
13:59:48 [Zakim]
ok, Steven; the call is being made
13:59:49 [Zakim]
IA_XHTML2()10:00AM has now started
13:59:50 [Zakim]
13:59:51 [Zakim]
13:59:55 [Zakim]
14:00:29 [Zakim]
14:00:47 [Zakim]
14:01:22 [yamx]
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14:02:25 [Zakim]
14:02:28 [markbirbeck]
zakim, i am ?
14:02:29 [Zakim]
+markbirbeck; got it
14:03:31 [Zakim]
14:03:44 [yamx]
this is yam
14:04:05 [yamx]
zakim, i am ??P17
14:04:05 [Zakim]
+yamx; got it
14:04:10 [Steven]
zakim, ??P17 is yamx
14:04:10 [Zakim]
I already had ??P17 as yamx, Steven
14:04:43 [Rich]
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14:06:43 [Steven]
Scribe: Steven
14:06:56 [Steven]
Topic: Chair
14:07:07 [Zakim]
14:08:20 [Steven]
zakim, ??P18 is Rich
14:08:20 [Zakim]
+Rich; got it
14:08:32 [Steven]
Steven: Roland Merrick of IBM will be joining me as co-chair
14:09:15 [Steven]
Topic: Roadmap
14:10:55 [Steven]
14:11:38 [Steven]
Here is the latest one:
14:16:25 [Steven]
Shane: There is a mismatch between the documents section and the milestones
14:16:33 [Steven]
Steven: All the more reason to update the roadmap document
14:17:05 [Steven]
Mark: It looks like the documents section is OK, only the milestones are missing some
14:17:13 [Steven]
ACTION: Steven to update the roadmap document
14:17:30 [Steven]
Topic: Wiki/Blog
14:20:42 [Steven]
Steven: DO we think this is a good idea?
14:20:47 [Steven]
... example:
14:21:23 [Steven]
Shane: It's a good idea
14:21:28 [Steven]
14:21:50 [Steven]
ACTION: Steven investigate starting a blog and wiki
14:22:36 [Steven]
Topic: Vote on last call for Role and Access
14:23:03 [Steven]
Steven: I saw this as an action from last week
14:23:29 [Steven]
Shane: The final version of role is not ready, sorry
14:24:05 [Steven]
Tina: I had an action item to review the role document
14:25:56 [Steven]
... I'm not convinced wee need it
14:26:23 [Steven]
... I don't like representing semantics in attributes rather than elements
14:26:44 [Steven]
Steven: But it offeres extensibility in semantics without having to constantly revise the language
14:26:51 [Steven]
14:29:51 [Steven]
Tina: I'm worried that people will create semantics with <div role=
14:30:13 [Steven]
Steven: Agreed we have to talk about best practices
14:30:38 [Steven]
Rich: You can't stop people doing the wrong thing; at least we now have a way to extract the real semantics, rather than having to guess
14:32:34 [Steven]
Steven: The nice thing that this offers is a link to the semantic web way of defining semantics
14:33:40 [Steven]
Tina: For people who don't understand h1, rdf doesn't give them any value
14:33:51 [Steven]
Mark: I think you are missing the point
14:34:03 [Steven]
.... you don't have to understand rdf
14:34:11 [Steven]
... there are values you can use
14:34:40 [Steven]
... so we have the best of both worlds: a predefined list, and hooks into rdf which makes it extensible for the future
14:35:06 [Steven]
Tina: I'm worried that people will ad semantics with role
14:36:43 [Steven]
... if someone makes up their own semantics, there is no way to get out the real meaning
14:37:21 [Steven]
Steven: Yes there is! That's the nice thing about semweb tools: you can define the relationship between different semantics ('ontologies')
14:38:26 [Steven]
Rich: The nice thing about this apporach is that you don't need 'skip to' links for instance, and the browser still offers a shortcut to the main content
14:40:45 [Steven]
Steven: Are you going to do a review, or was this it Tina?
14:40:58 [Steven]
Tina: THe document is fine, I'm just worried about the principle.
14:41:51 [Steven]
Topic: Name and namespace
14:41:54 [Zakim]
14:42:16 [Steven]
14:43:57 [Steven]
Shane: You know my opinion; they should not calll it XHTML unless they use modularization
14:44:36 [Steven]
Tina: There are two markup languages, HTML and XHTML. I'm not sure that HTLM5 is even HTML, but that is a different discussion
14:47:30 [Steven]
Rich: I'm worried about the confusion. I have no problems with HTML5/xml or so
14:47:43 [Steven]
... but not XHTML5
14:48:07 [Steven]
Mark: I don't see why they need two names. They have HTML5, with two serializations. No need for two names
14:48:17 [Steven]
Tina: I agree with the problem of confusion
14:48:30 [Steven]
... I've already seen it amongst developers.
14:49:23 [Steven]
Rich: ALl existing XHTMLs have been modular, and HTML5 is not. Its's a mess.
14:50:00 [Steven]
14:50:19 [Steven]
Yam: It doesn't make any sense for them to produce something called XHTML5
14:50:55 [yamx]
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14:51:17 [Steven]
14:53:11 [Steven]
Steven: And now the namespace
14:53:34 [Steven]
... we were criticised in the past for having a different namespace, and therefore we changed it back (correctly in my view)
14:53:43 [ShaneM]
I concur.
14:53:50 [Steven]
Rich: I think HTML5 is not backwards compatible
14:54:01 [Steven]
Tina: Agreed, especially with elements changing meaning
14:55:43 [Steven]
Steven: I believe that XHTML2 is more backwards compatible than HTML5
14:56:16 [Steven]
Rich: If the browser manufacturers are going to have to make lal these changes for au=dio, video, canvas and so on, what''s the problem with a new namespace?
14:56:22 [Steven]
Steven: Good point
14:56:58 [Steven]
Topic: URL is overspecified
15:00:02 [Zakim]
15:00:03 [Zakim]
15:00:04 [Zakim]
15:00:06 [Zakim]
15:01:09 [Steven]
StevenL If I understand the point of view being expressed, just because URLs go over the wire in ascii, there is no reason to demand the URL in the XHTML source to be ascii; we can allow the international form of domain names etc in the source, and require the browser to udo the conversion to ascii
15:01:13 [Steven]
Yam: Quite agree
15:01:18 [Steven]
Mark: Sounds like a good idea
15:01:37 [Steven]
ACTION: Steven to get advice from I18N group about international form of URIs
15:01:50 [Steven]
15:02:00 [Steven]
zakim, who is here?
15:02:02 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Rich
15:02:08 [Zakim]
On IRC I see ShaneM, Tina, RRSAgent, Zakim, Steven, markbirbeck, krijnh
15:02:08 [Steven]
zakim, drop rich
15:02:14 [Zakim]
Rich is being disconnected
15:02:16 [Zakim]
IA_XHTML2()10:00AM has ended
15:02:20 [Zakim]
Attendees were Dialer, Steven, ShaneM, Tina, markbirbeck, yamx, Rich
15:02:45 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:02:45 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Steven
15:03:24 [Steven]
Chair: Steven
15:06:13 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:06:13 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Steven
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