IRC log of grddl-wg on 2007-06-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:57:04 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #grddl-wg

14:57:04 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/06/20-grddl-wg-irc

14:57:05 [Zakim]

agendum 13 added

14:57:07 [Zakim]

agenda+ Standard Transformation Library

14:57:08 [Zakim]

agendum 14 added

14:57:09 [Zakim]

agenda+ #issue-dbooth-3(ambiguity)

14:57:10 [Zakim]

agendum 15 added

14:57:11 [Zakim]

agenda+ #issue-base-param

14:57:13 [Zakim]

agendum 16 added

14:57:15 [Zakim]

agenda+ GRDDL vocabulary and misc spec edits

14:57:16 [Zakim]

agendum 17 added

14:57:18 [Zakim]

agenda+ Implementation Report, toward PR request

14:57:20 [Zakim]

agendum 18 added

14:57:22 [Zakim]

done reading agenda, HarryH

14:57:24 [Zakim]

+??P0

14:57:26 [Zakim]

-??P0

14:57:28 [Zakim]

+??P0

14:57:56 [briansuda]

Zakim, ??P0 is briansuda

14:57:56 [Zakim]

+briansuda; got it

14:58:40 [john-l]

john-l has joined #grddl-wg

14:59:53 [Zakim]

+john-l

15:00:09 [DanC]

agenda -18

15:00:11 [DanC]

agenda -17

15:00:13 [DanC]

agenda -16

15:00:16 [DanC]

agenda -15

15:00:18 [DanC]

agenda -14

15:00:19 [DanC]

agenda -13

15:00:21 [DanC]

agenda -12

15:00:22 [DanC]

agenda -11

15:00:24 [DanC]

agenda -10

15:00:29 [DanC]

agenda -9

15:00:36 [DanC]

oops

15:00:51 [DanC]

agenda 9 = Implementation Report, toward PR request

15:01:05 [Zakim]

+DanC

15:01:25 [DanC]

Zakim, take up item 1

15:01:26 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2007-06-20T11:00-0400" taken up

15:01:32 [DanC]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

15:01:32 [Zakim]

On the phone I see dbooth, briansuda, john-l, DanC

15:01:41 [Zakim]

+??P20

15:01:53 [DanC]

Zakim, ??P20 is rreck

15:01:53 [Zakim]

+rreck; got it

15:02:19 [DanC]

Scribe: briansuda

15:02:31 [DanC]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jun/att-0113/13-grddl-wg-minutes.html minutes 13 Jun

15:02:34 [rreck]

rreck has joined #grddl-wg

15:03:18 [iand]

iand has joined #grddl-wg

15:03:21 [DanC]

dbooth: note 6 Jun record doesn't say who chaired

15:03:26 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

15:03:39 [iand]

I am only available via IRC today I'm afraid

15:03:40 [DanC]

(I see a chair in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jun/att-0046/SV_MEETING_TITLE_--_6_Jun_2007.htm )

15:04:00 [danja_]

Zakim, [IPcaller] is danja_

15:04:01 [Zakim]

+danja_; got it

15:04:25 [DanC]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

15:04:25 [Zakim]

On the phone I see dbooth, briansuda, john-l, DanC, rreck, danja_

15:04:34 [jjc]

jjc has joined #grddl-wg

15:04:35 [DanC]

iand, 13 jun minutes good enough for you?

15:04:40 [iand]

yes

15:04:49 [HarryH]

HarryH has joined #grddl-wg

15:04:55 [DanC]

RESOLVED: to approve minutes 13 Jun

15:05:16 [DanC]

PROPOSED: to meet again Wed, 27 June 11:00-0400. scribe volunteer?

15:05:33 [DanC]

HarryH, you're still OK for next week, right?

15:05:49 [Zakim]

+Harry_Halpin

15:05:51 [DanC]

RESOLVED: to meet again Wed, 27 June 11:00-0400, danja_ to scribe

15:06:37 [Zakim]

+Murray_Maloney

15:06:53 [rreck]

can someone please provide a link to the agenda?

15:06:58 [briansuda]

harry, discuss 1 or 2 or dbooths proposals

15:07:07 [HarryH]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/weekly-agenda

15:07:13 [Zakim]

+??P30

15:07:14 [DanC]

but for archival purposes...

15:07:17 [HarryH]

Zakim, next item

15:07:17 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "Done without comment" taken up

15:07:24 [danja]

danja has joined #grddl-wg

15:07:27 [HarryH]

Zakim, next item

15:07:27 [Zakim]

agendum 2 was just opened, HarryH

15:07:32 [HarryH]

Zakim, open item 3

15:07:32 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "Primer" taken up

15:07:35 [DanC]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jun/0177.html

15:08:08 [briansuda]

harry, for primer - addressed comments, queries working (some), ...

15:08:43 [briansuda]

danny, referencing profile documents, giving bad results?

15:09:09 [DanC]

PROPOSED: to publish http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/doc29/primer.html v 1.81 2007/06/20 14:05:38 plus SPARQL query fixes, plus editorial changes that Harry runs by at least one WG member

15:09:15 [HarryH]

Embedded RDF?

15:09:15 [DanC]

^that's what I heard harry propose

15:09:17 [briansuda]

danny, resulting RDF was not complete, or maybe the guitar example

15:09:23 [FabienG]

FabienG has joined #grddl-wg

15:09:41 [DanC]

(brian, use danny: to attribute something to danny)

15:10:02 [jjc]

The use of a namespace on the root element represents a declaration that the document conforms to the authoritative definition of that namespace as defined by the namespace owner, which may include a transformation from that XML dialect into RDF using GRDDL.

15:10:03 [HarryH]

* ACTION: danja to review primer [CONTINUES]

15:10:43 [briansuda]

harry: one last grammar check

15:10:48 [briansuda]

on the primer

15:11:37 [briansuda]

danny: just light editorary thing, and the one error in RDF

15:12:04 [HarryH]

Danja, also it would also be useful for you to run queries over sample data.

15:12:14 [briansuda]

Dan: keep as much out of the critical path, just Harry and Danny

15:12:14 [Zakim]

+FabienG

15:12:39 [briansuda]

Danny: david's usecase had the error

15:12:56 [briansuda]

that error was fixed yesterday

15:13:04 [jjc]

(jeremy + ian)

15:13:15 [briansuda]

Harry: looking for consense on proposal

15:13:24 [HarryH]

PROPOSED: to publish http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/doc29/primer.html v 1.81 2007/06/20 14:05:38 plus SPARQL query fixes, plus editorial changes that Harry runs by at least one WG member.

15:13:32 [briansuda]

danny: seconds

15:13:35 [HarryH]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

15:13:35 [Zakim]

On the phone I see dbooth, briansuda, john-l, DanC, rreck, danja_, Harry_Halpin, Murray_Maloney, jjc, FabienG

15:13:47 [briansuda]

david: yes,

15:13:54 [briansuda]

john: yes

15:13:57 [rreck]

yes

15:14:00 [FabienG]

fabien : concur

15:14:01 [briansuda]

dan: yes

15:14:01 [HarryH]

rreck?

15:14:11 [briansuda]

Murry: yes

15:14:21 [iand]

yes

15:14:21 [briansuda]

brian: yes

15:14:44 [HarryH]

RESOLVED: to publish http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/doc29/primer.html v 1.81 2007/06/20 14:05:38 plus SPARQL query fixes, plus editorial changes that Harry runs by at least one WG member.

15:14:47 [rreck]

version 1.81?

15:15:13 [briansuda]

Dan: put the pictures back into the primer

15:15:14 [john-l]

That's to publish that to http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl-primer/ as a working draft?

15:15:25 [rreck]

yes, i concur

15:15:43 [briansuda]

Dan: all the actions are closed on that item

15:16:08 [briansuda]

Dan: working draft or note?

15:16:13 [briansuda]

Harry: note

15:16:17 [HarryH]

Primer as a Note.

15:16:38 [DanC]

WG Note fine by me

15:17:00 [HarryH]

RESOLVED: to publish http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/doc29/primer.html v 1.81 2007/06/20 14:05:38 as a WG Note plus SPARQL query fixes, plus editorial changes that Harry runs by at least one WG member.

15:17:31 [HarryH]

Zakim, next item

15:17:31 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "Done without comment" taken up

15:17:36 [HarryH]

Zakim, open item 4

15:17:37 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "GRDDL Test Cases" taken up

15:17:41 [DanC]

Zakim, close item 2

15:17:41 [Zakim]

agendum 2, Done without comment, closed

15:17:42 [Zakim]

I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:17:43 [Zakim]

4. GRDDL Test Cases

15:18:11 [briansuda]

name change from embeded-RDF to inline-RDF

15:18:13 [HarryH]

ACTION: john-l to ping Dave Beckett about embeddedRDF [DONE]

15:18:35 [briansuda]

Harry: do we have earl results from Dave Beckett? - not yet

15:18:45 [jjc]

On test cases http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jun/0199

15:18:51 [briansuda]

John: contacted Dave about this

15:18:52 [Zakim]

-jjc

15:18:56 [HarryH]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jun/0135.html

15:19:06 [DanC]

(is "ACTION: chimezie to update test manifest to include statements about features exercised by each test" done?)

15:19:35 [john-l]

DanC, good question; I believe the answer is yes.

15:19:37 [Zakim]

+??P24

15:19:38 [briansuda]

Harry: any of chimezie open questions need to be answered

15:20:17 [briansuda]

john: not sure if this is not finished

15:20:46 [briansuda]

still @@'s on XProc stuff

15:22:35 [briansuda]

Harry: get the test editor's draft up to speed to publish next week...

15:22:55 [briansuda]

Dan: there have been answers to the @@'s that need to be put into the document

15:23:31 [HarryH]

ACTION: john-l to ask chime to fix @@s in test-case document

15:23:48 [DanC]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jun/0140.html Re: Updates to test cases editor's draft. from Dan C

15:24:54 [DanC]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jun/0199.html and from jjc re test editor's draft

15:25:23 [HarryH]

Zakim open item 5

15:25:28 [HarryH]

Zakim, open item 5

15:25:29 [Zakim]

agendum 5. "Standard Transformation Library" taken up

15:25:32 [DanC]

Zakim, close item 4

15:25:32 [Zakim]

agendum 4, GRDDL Test Cases, closed

15:25:33 [Zakim]

I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:25:34 [Zakim]

5. Standard Transformation Library

15:25:54 [HarryH]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/pendinglist

15:26:04 [briansuda]

Jeremy: should not suggest more tests, they won't get into the draft - they test the LIB not the implementations

15:26:21 [briansuda]

no need to formally approve them

15:26:34 [briansuda]

Dan: interested in getting them on the test suite

15:26:40 [john-l]

ACTION: john-l to exercise GRDDL.py on http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/pendinglist

15:26:52 [jjc]

#trix2 does not work yet

15:27:56 [briansuda]

Jeremy: will chat with John and seek approval next week

15:28:28 [HarryH]

ACTION: jjc to fix glean-profile to work with redirects [DONE]

15:28:41 [HarryH]

Zakim, open item 6

15:28:42 [Zakim]

agendum 6. "#issue-dbooth-3(ambiguity)" taken up

15:28:46 [dbooth]

slides http://dbooth.org/2007/grddl/ambiguity.ppt

15:28:54 [HarryH]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jun/0142.html

15:29:26 [briansuda]

david: slide 2, given an XML document, what RDF was intended

15:30:22 [briansuda]

slide 3: not disirable abiguity, not forcing author to be unabigious, ...

15:30:29 [DanC]

Zakim, mute jjc

15:30:29 [Zakim]

jjc should now be muted

15:30:48 [briansuda]

slide 4, two kinds of ambiguity

15:30:58 [briansuda]

1. Wrong results. Results contain different triples than intended.

15:31:04 [briansuda]

2. Subsetting. User unknowingly gets a proper subset of the intended results, while believing that he/she got all of them.

15:31:59 [briansuda]

leave the door open to future working groups to determine terms

15:32:05 [briansuda]

Proposal 1b part 1: Partial solution

15:32:12 [briansuda]

Proposal: Change input of GRDDL transformation from XPath node tree to representation

15:32:38 [dbooth]

http://dbooth.org/2007/grddl/ambiguity.ppt

15:32:43 [danja]

danja has joined #grddl-wg

15:32:47 [dbooth]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jun/0201.html

15:33:39 [briansuda]

Permits transformation author to reduce variability in the "transformation application" step

15:33:51 [briansuda]

Simple normative change

15:33:54 [briansuda]

No changes to test cases

15:34:01 [briansuda]

Proposal 2b part 1: Better solution

15:34:06 [Zakim]

-danja_

15:34:15 [dbooth]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jun/0209.html

15:34:16 [briansuda]

Proposal:

15:34:16 [briansuda]

Change input of GRDDL transformation from XPath node tree to representation; and

15:34:16 [briansuda]

Specify that parsing is minimal, non-validating/me wn/

15:34:43 [jjc]

[[

15:34:43 [jjc]

change: "XML document" to "XML document D"

15:34:44 [jjc]

and: "TP applied to R" to "TP applied to D"

15:34:44 [jjc]

]]

15:34:53 [jjc]

is the part imported from earlier messages

15:35:00 [briansuda]

Observations:

15:35:01 [briansuda]

Reduces unwanted ambiguity problem

15:35:01 [briansuda]

Permits transformation author to reduce variability in the "transformation application" step

15:35:01 [briansuda]

Simple normative change

15:35:01 [briansuda]

No changes to test cases

15:35:26 [DanC]

(require non-validating parsing? that conflicts with recent real-world experience, i.e. XTech )

15:36:11 [DanC]

(at this point in the process, post-CR, any substantive changes really should come with test cases.)

15:36:14 [jjc]

(I discovered that I am using a validating parser - I need to find out how to switch it off)

15:36:28 [HarryH]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

15:36:28 [Zakim]

On the phone I see dbooth, briansuda, john-l, DanC, rreck, Harry_Halpin, Murray_Maloney, FabienG, jjc (muted)

15:36:49 [briansuda]

abstain

15:37:12 [briansuda]

john: yes, interested

15:37:42 [briansuda]

Dan: change from nodeset-document needs some test-cases, no support without test cases

15:37:56 [briansuda]

Dan: based on the proposal, no

15:38:00 [HarryH]

DanC - no (without test-cases)

15:38:03 [rreck]

yes i am interested. but i think test cases are useful

15:38:10 [HarryH]

abstrain

15:38:24 [HarryH]

murray - no

15:38:32 [HarryH]

and would require re-opening faithful infoset.

15:38:34 [jjc]

Zakim, unmute me

15:38:34 [Zakim]

jjc should no longer be muted

15:38:35 [FabienG]

concur

15:38:39 [HarryH]

jjc?

15:38:40 [iand]

i abstain

15:39:04 [briansuda]

jeremy: opposed, ...

15:39:15 [jjc]

(personally speaking)

15:39:19 [jjc]

Zakim, mute me

15:39:19 [Zakim]

jjc should now be muted

15:39:28 [HarryH]

3 yes and 3 nos.

15:39:33 [dbooth]

dbooth is yes :)

15:39:57 [HarryH]

What if jeremy's test case was added:

15:39:58 [briansuda]

david: if the test case were added, would there be support?

15:40:00 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

15:40:09 [Zakim]

-Harry_Halpin

15:40:18 [HarryH]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jun/0149.html

15:40:35 [jjc]

Zakim, unmute me

15:40:35 [Zakim]

jjc should no longer be muted

15:40:42 [briansuda]

david: implimentor issues, would/could they make the changes

15:41:00 [Zakim]

+Harry_Halpin

15:42:44 [briansuda]

Murry?: we don't have tests that take a document in, look for transformation, then decide to execute or not?

15:42:48 [jjc]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/pendinglist#db-3a

15:42:51 [jjc]

and onwards

15:43:04 [briansuda]

all the current apps we use are pipelines

15:43:11 [dbooth]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jun/0209.html

15:43:28 [briansuda]

david: 2b part 1 straw poll, same as 1b part 1, with extras

15:43:45 [HarryH]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

15:43:45 [Zakim]

On the phone I see dbooth, briansuda, john-l, DanC, rreck, Murray_Maloney, FabienG, jjc, [IPcaller] (muted), Harry_Halpin

15:43:57 [jjc]

Zakim, mute me

15:43:57 [Zakim]

jjc should now be muted

15:44:00 [briansuda]

abstain

15:44:06 [HarryH]

john-l: yes

15:44:08 [briansuda]

John: yes

15:44:26 [jjc]

Zakim, unmute me

15:44:26 [Zakim]

jjc should no longer be muted

15:44:37 [briansuda]

Dan: against, but needs thought

15:44:41 [rreck]

yes

15:44:51 [HarryH]

murray: no

15:44:52 [briansuda]

Murry: no

15:44:52 [FabienG]

concur

15:44:57 [jjc]

no

15:45:03 [HarryH]

danja?

15:45:13 [iand]

i abstain

15:45:16 [HarryH]

abstain

15:45:30 [DanC]

(Harry, if there's no open issue, the WG doesn't have to make a decision; a proposal that doesn't get consensus can just go by the wayside)

15:45:43 [danja]

muted ipcaller

15:46:20 [briansuda]

david: withdraw proposals at this point

15:46:35 [briansuda]

Harry: any portion or changes that the WG could improve and push forward?

15:46:41 [danja]

Zakim, [IPcaller] is danja

15:46:41 [Zakim]

+danja; got it

15:46:53 [danja]

Zakim, unmute me

15:46:53 [Zakim]

danja should no longer be muted

15:46:59 [jjc]

Zakim, unmute me

15:46:59 [Zakim]

jjc should no longer be muted

15:47:10 [DanC]

(I think the "complete GRDDL result" idea is interesting, but I'm not sure how to fit it into the WG schedule. I guess I encourage an HP submission or something.)

15:47:24 [briansuda]

David: anyone on the fence, what changes would be simple tweaks that would change your thoughts?

15:47:34 [briansuda]

danny: hasn't had a chance to review full, many good points...

15:49:19 [briansuda]

danny: how many of these are known-problems?

15:49:48 [briansuda]

Harry: xinclude example, to resolve or not resolve it

15:50:06 [briansuda]

Danny: different triples, is different than sub-set - wrong results are problems

15:50:06 [jjc]

Zakim, unmute me

15:50:06 [Zakim]

jjc should no longer be muted

15:50:30 [briansuda]

Murry: if you don't deal with infoset, then you are missing info.

15:50:48 [DanC]

PROPOSED: to respond to issue-dbooth-3 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-comments/2007AprJun/0078.html by noting that the WG sees some room for further study, but has postponed a nearby issue, issue-faithful-infoset , and encourages the community to experiment in this area

15:50:56 [DanC]

q+

15:50:59 [briansuda]

murry: DTD and other things add parts to a true XML document

15:51:16 [jjc]

q+ to represent someone else in HP

15:51:32 [briansuda]

david: permit the author to use things like XProc to control the flow

15:51:51 [HarryH]

ack jjc

15:51:51 [danja]

Zakim, mute me

15:51:52 [Zakim]

jjc, you wanted to represent someone else in HP

15:51:55 [Zakim]

danja should now be muted

15:52:11 [briansuda]

Murry: the proposal doesn't change how Xproc handles anything

15:53:17 [briansuda]

Jeremy: many specs are moving tword ???

15:53:17 [DanC]

(re jjc's point, noah M. (in the TAG) often brings up "synthetic infosets" )

15:53:21 [HarryH]

ack DanC

15:54:09 [briansuda]

Harry: if we postpone this, then it delays the GRDDL spec

15:54:28 [jjc]

q+ to modify DanC's proposal, if the chair wishes us to consider it

15:54:53 [jjc]

DanC: proposed to respond to comment noting that we have postponed #faithful-infoset

15:55:09 [briansuda]

Harry: anything between normative and tests?

15:57:30 [briansuda]

Harry: the spec talks about passing the node-tree to transformation language

15:57:53 [HarryH]

ack jjc

15:57:53 [Zakim]

jjc, you wanted to modify DanC's proposal, if the chair wishes us to consider it

15:58:28 [briansuda]

David: wants to hold till next week

15:58:33 [briansuda]

Dan: wants to decide now

15:58:46 [briansuda]

Jeremy: amendment to Dan's proposal

15:59:31 [briansuda]

postponing faithful-info set was an important part of and referenced in our documents

15:59:44 [DanC]

q+ to suggest that links to open tag issues fit better in the status section

16:00:01 [HarryH]

ack DanC

16:00:01 [Zakim]

DanC, you wanted to suggest that links to open tag issues fit better in the status section

16:00:18 [briansuda]

Dan: tag issues in the status section already, could add a link there

16:00:57 [briansuda]

add a link to the status section about XML

16:01:28 [briansuda]

David: jeremy's wordsmithing, be away to address teh comment

16:01:41 [jjc]

[[

16:01:41 [jjc]

this specification anticipates that the

16:01:42 [jjc]

resolution of TAG issue

16:01:42 [jjc]

<a href="http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/issues.html?type=1#xmlFunctions-34">

16:01:42 [jjc]

xmlFunctions-34

16:01:42 [jjc]

</a>

16:01:44 [jjc]

will provide further

16:01:46 [jjc]

clarification and guidance.

16:01:48 [jjc]

]]

16:01:58 [DanC]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jun/0199.html #faithful-infoset wordsmithing JJC 19 Jun

16:02:17 [briansuda]

change that text to something else

16:02:29 [jjc]

GRDDL is intended to contribute to addressing Web Architecture issues such as RDFinXHTML-35 and namespaceDocument-8 as well as issues postponed by the RDF Core working group such as rdfms-validating-embedded-rdf and faq-html-compliance.

16:02:59 [briansuda]

Jeremy: add something near there, similar to my wordsmithing

16:03:19 [briansuda]

David: jeremy's wording would certainly be an improvement

16:03:52 [briansuda]

Jeremy: Would like Dan to add something in that section about XML

16:05:04 [briansuda]

David: WG hold so folks can read, or move forward

16:05:37 [briansuda]

Jeremy: has suggest words, but Dan is the editor, so he is over text - up to the editor

16:05:57 [briansuda]

trusts dan to edit as he sees fit

16:06:49 [dbooth]

specifically words to the effect that the "xmlFunctions-34

16:06:50 [dbooth]

</a>

16:06:50 [dbooth]

will provide further

16:06:50 [dbooth]

clarification and guidance"

16:06:51 [DanC]

ACTION DanC: work xmlFunctions-34 ref, incl "guidance..." into status section

16:07:07 [jjc]

Note: Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 00:33:18 -0400 was when the comemnt was made

16:07:15 [HarryH]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

16:07:15 [Zakim]

On the phone I see dbooth, briansuda, john-l, DanC, rreck, Murray_Maloney, FabienG, jjc, danja (muted), Harry_Halpin

16:07:21 [danja]

Zakim, unmute me

16:07:21 [Zakim]

danja should no longer be muted

16:07:25 [rreck]

yes

16:07:42 [briansuda]

john: yes

16:07:44 [briansuda]

Dan: no

16:07:54 [briansuda]

ronald: yes

16:07:56 [briansuda]

murry: no

16:07:59 [FabienG]

concur

16:08:04 [HarryH]

murray: no

16:08:08 [briansuda]

jeremy; no

16:08:14 [iand]

concur

16:08:14 [briansuda]

danny: concur

16:09:27 [briansuda]

Harry: can't extend this more than next week

16:09:48 [briansuda]

if we cannot reach formal consensus by next week, that is it

16:10:14 [briansuda]

david: if one more week is given, then the WG has atiquatly addressed the comment

16:11:05 [briansuda]

harry: one normative and test case, there is no actual text. these need to be thought through and flush out by next week

16:11:15 [DanC]

(it's always best when specific stuff is available as of when the agenda goes out)

16:12:00 [DanC]

(http://www.w3.org/2004/01/rdxh/spec 1.271 has an attempt at the xmlFunctions stuff in the status section )

16:12:05 [briansuda]

Harry: without chairs hat, this is just a possible design pattern for GRDDL agents for langs that are not XSLT1

16:12:19 [danja]

(that makes sense)

16:12:27 [briansuda]

David: to use XProc instead of XSLT

16:12:43 [briansuda]

Murry: XProc doesn't actually do what david intends

16:12:47 [dbooth]

I only know what i have read in the XProc spec

16:13:22 [briansuda]

Harry: informative text to the spec or a note, lang not XSLT1 have potential issues

16:13:33 [jjc]

(to DanC)

16:14:27 [HarryH]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

16:14:27 [Zakim]

On the phone I see dbooth, briansuda, john-l, DanC, rreck, Murray_Maloney, FabienG, jjc, danja, Harry_Halpin

16:14:31 [briansuda]

abstain

16:15:04 [briansuda]

david: part 2, subsetting problem

16:15:11 [DanC]

Zakim, mute jjc temporarily

16:15:11 [Zakim]

jjc should now be muted

16:15:26 [Zakim]

jjc should now be unmuted again

16:15:38 [briansuda]

gets GRDDL results, partical results return, but there is no way to know if they got ALL the results intended

16:15:55 [briansuda]

leave the door open to a WG note, ...

16:16:01 [dbooth]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jun/0199.html

16:16:14 [dbooth]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jun/0201.html

16:16:28 [briansuda]

ignore the first URL

16:16:31 [danja]

(not sure I see the subsetting problem as a problem)

16:16:51 [danja]

Zakim, mute me

16:16:51 [Zakim]

danja should now be muted

16:17:07 [briansuda]

david: involves adding a sentance and add mention about the WG note

16:17:15 [rreck]

abstain

16:17:17 [briansuda]

abstain

16:17:20 [HarryH]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

16:17:20 [Zakim]

On the phone I see dbooth, briansuda, john-l, DanC, rreck, Murray_Maloney, FabienG, jjc, danja (muted), Harry_Halpin

16:17:26 [briansuda]

john: yes

16:17:32 [iand]

what is the proposal?

16:17:57 [danja]

Zakim, unmute me

16:17:59 [Zakim]

danja should no longer be muted

16:18:00 [jjc]

discussion about WG Note about complete GRDDL result?

16:18:08 [briansuda]

dan: interesting, but as team contact no cycles to do admin work

16:19:30 [DanC]

(a) mentioning the WG in the body of the spec isn't something I like to do as editor

16:19:36 [briansuda]

jeremy: is this actually on the agenda.

16:19:55 [DanC]

(b) the suggestion under faithful infoset is a testable assertion

16:20:17 [HarryH]

HP submission

16:20:28 [briansuda]

Harry: this could be an HP submission rather than a Note

16:20:34 [Zakim]

-Murray_Maloney

16:20:58 [DanC]

(b) the suggestion under faithful infoset is a testable assertion; to add that at this (post-CR) stage suggests adding test cases.

16:20:58 [briansuda]

David: is happy to do this as a submission rather than a WG note

16:22:17 [briansuda]

Jermey: happy with it to be a note, but does not like the content, against the sentance

16:22:48 [HarryH]

ACTION dbooth Send "just that sentence to be added to faithful infoset" over the listserv

16:23:01 [HarryH]

Zakim, next item

16:23:01 [Zakim]

agendum 5. "Standard Transformation Library" taken up

16:23:09 [HarryH]

Zakim, open item 7

16:23:09 [Zakim]

agendum 7. "#issue-base-param" taken up

16:23:26 [briansuda]

Dan: no movement on that action

16:23:34 [dbooth]

ACTION: dbooth to Send "just that sentence to be added to faithful infoset" over the listserv

16:23:51 [briansuda]

Dan: will get around to it eventually

16:23:58 [HarryH]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jun/0171.html

16:24:51 [jjc]

Note this was informative not substantive - it is a fair bit of text ...

16:25:03 [briansuda]

John: confident that changes are in, would like a review if possible

16:25:26 [HarryH]

Zakim, open item 8

16:25:26 [Zakim]

agendum 8. "GRDDL vocabulary and misc spec edits" taken up

16:25:34 [briansuda]

Jeremy: Dave Beckett has mentioned it.

16:26:06 [HarryH]

ACTION: DanC to incorporate 0054 comments into namespace doc.(consider notifying Dave Beckett)

16:26:12 [briansuda]

Harry: comments from Dave Booth...

16:26:23 [HarryH]

s/Booth/Beckett

16:26:39 [briansuda]

Dan: has made changes, found and issue

16:26:44 [jjc]

ACTION: jjc to ask DaveBeckett to look at Base appendix, in response to appropriate comment

16:27:08 [HarryH]

ACTION: DanC to incorporate 0054 comments into namespace doc.(consider notifying Dave Beckett) [CONTINUES]

16:27:15 [HarryH]

Zakim, open item 9

16:27:15 [Zakim]

agendum 9. "Implementation Report, toward PR request" taken up

16:27:45 [DanC]

as to how I'm not done on namespace doc: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jun/0174.html

16:27:51 [briansuda]

Harry: getting close

16:28:05 [HarryH]

ACTION: DanC to incorporate 0054 comments into namespace doc.(consider notifying Dave Beckett)

16:28:21 [HarryH]

Do we want to include raptor in our PR request?

16:28:29 [briansuda]

Dan: yes

16:29:04 [briansuda]

Jeremy: we have more tests to approve next week, so abit of a moving target

16:29:35 [briansuda]

Dan: w3c online service and ??? are two implementations

16:29:49 [john-l]

Jeremy, are you planning on pushing out some new EARL results soon?

16:29:52 [briansuda]

Harry: W3C should be kept correct, even if they use other people's code

16:30:03 [jjc]

should do before I go on holiday - EARL

16:30:13 [john-l]

Excellent.

16:30:17 [briansuda]

dan: kingsly and co. open link vertuoso? is second implementation

16:30:32 [HarryH]

ACTION: HarryH to ping Dom to encourage him to move code.

16:30:50 [HarryH]

ACTION: Danja to contact Kingsley and try to get GRDDL EARL results

16:30:52 [john-l]

ACTION: john-l to update http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/test_results based on new EARL results as they come in.

16:30:56 [DanC]

danja, if you could wish into your blog about an openlink column in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/test_results , that might do it

16:31:27 [briansuda]

Harry: don't want to keep contacting people for EARL for tests we keep adding

16:31:33 [danja]

'k, nice leverage :-)

16:31:36 [john-l]

ACTION: john-l to generate new EARL for GRDDL.py.

16:32:13 [briansuda]

Jeremy: wants to keep contacting Dave about back and forth about test lib updates

16:32:13 [DanC]

(DanC is happy to add tests as they mature)

16:32:46 [briansuda]

Dan: approve them today, contigent on John or wait

16:33:06 [briansuda]

Harry: can we ask EARL on un-approved tests

16:33:13 [DanC]

q+

16:33:22 [HarryH]

ack DanC

16:33:35 [briansuda]

Dan: edit the master list of tests, when you thiink it is resonable

16:34:08 [briansuda]

Harry: this will get us EARL results

16:34:45 [HarryH]

ACTION: john-l and chime to update test document to reflect new tests (but not one in response dbooth) asap in order for those results to be in EARL.

16:35:01 [briansuda]

Harry: PR request needs EARL inorder...

16:35:09 [HarryH]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/lc-spec

16:36:52 [HarryH]

ACTION: HarryH and DanC to write XML Activity Lead and Chair of XSL/XQuery cc SemWeb CG re quotes

16:37:40 [briansuda]

jeremy: need to close the loop on these comments... are you satisfied, yes/no ...

16:37:50 [DanC]

on beckett in particular

16:38:03 [jjc]

ACTION: jjc close loop with DaveB on 0102

16:38:10 [HarryH]

ACTION: jjc review appendix A of test editors draft [DO

16:38:23 [DanC]

i.e. [DONE]

16:38:25 [HarryH]

ACTION: jjc review appendix A of test editors draft [DONE]

16:38:39 [HarryH]

ACTION: DanC to review test coverage results via tabulator [WITHDRAWN]

16:38:43 [briansuda]

HArry: results from Tablulator?

16:38:59 [briansuda]

Harry: do people feel we are ready for PR?

16:39:19 [HarryH]

WBS Survey?

16:39:36 [HarryH]

ACTION: HarryH to write draft PR request

16:39:54 [briansuda]

David: other editoray things he has run across - not major issues

16:40:21 [DanC]

(thanks, briansuda , for staying late to scribe.)

16:40:26 [HarryH]

Meeting adjourned.

16:40:29 [Zakim]

-rreck

16:40:37 [Zakim]

-dbooth

16:40:39 [Zakim]

-danja

16:40:41 [briansuda]

AJOURNED

16:40:48 [briansuda]

ADJOURNED

16:41:20 [Zakim]

-DanC

16:41:34 [briansuda]

rrsagent draft minutes

16:42:11 [briansuda]

RRSAgent draft minutes

16:42:25 [briansuda]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

16:42:25 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/06/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html briansuda

16:42:59 [briansuda]

rrsagent, set logs world-visible

16:43:11 [HarryH]

\http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/doc29/medicalquery.rq

16:43:24 [briansuda]

rrsagent, make logs world-visible

16:43:28 [HarryH]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/doc29/hl7-sample.rdf

16:43:33 [HarryH]

produced from

16:43:38 [HarryH]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/doc29/hl7-sample.xml

16:43:45 [briansuda]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

16:43:45 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/06/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html briansuda

16:44:19 [briansuda]

Chair: HarryH

16:44:30 [john-l]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/doc29/hl7-sample-grddl.xml

16:44:32 [HarryH]

produced from http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/doc29/hl7-sample-grddl.xml

16:44:32 [briansuda]

did we have any regrets today?

16:44:36 [HarryH]

Simone

16:44:39 [john-l]

Chime

16:44:46 [briansuda]

Regrets: Simone,Chime

16:44:57 [briansuda]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

16:44:57 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/06/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html briansuda

16:45:08 [jjc]

<rdfs:Description rdf:about="">

16:46:04 [briansuda]

rrsagent, make logs world-visible

16:46:10 [briansuda]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

16:46:10 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/06/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html briansuda

16:46:26 [jjc]

<rdfs:Description rdf:about=''>

16:46:27 [john-l]

Harry, you're still going to press onward with testing the spreadsheet example, right?

16:46:28 [briansuda]

rrsagent, set logs world-visible

16:46:40 [jjc]

line 67 of the version of transform in doc29

16:46:47 [HarryH]

Yep, will double-check spreadsheet example.

16:46:59 [john-l]

Cool; do you need anything else from me?

16:47:05 [HarryH]

Nope

16:47:16 [Zakim]

-john-l

16:47:39 [jjc]

grddl:transformation="../td/hl7-rim-to-pomr.xslt"

16:48:18 [briansuda]

Zakim, what confernce?

16:48:19 [Zakim]

I don't understand your question, briansuda.

16:48:25 [jjc]

grddl:transformation="hl7-rim-to-pomr.xslt"

16:48:58 [Zakim]

-FabienG

16:49:28 [FabienG]

FabienG has left #grddl-wg

16:49:55 [Zakim]

-briansuda

16:50:01 [Zakim]

-Harry_Halpin

16:50:08 [HarryH]

jjc - sorry gotta catch an airplane!

16:50:16 [briansuda]

Zakim, list attendees

16:50:16 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been dbooth, briansuda, john-l, DanC, rreck, danja_, Harry_Halpin, Murray_Maloney, jjc, FabienG, danja

16:50:34 [HarryH]

But if there's a mismatch between primer and test directory we should straighten it out and they should both produce the correct RDF, i.e. no rdfs:Description.

16:50:53 [briansuda]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

16:50:53 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/06/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html briansuda

16:51:14 [briansuda]

rrsagent, set logs world-visible

16:51:18 [briansuda]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

16:51:18 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/06/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html briansuda

16:51:20 [HarryH]

Tell me if you grok what's going on. I'll be busy for the next 3 days but will give everything a good lookover this weekend.

16:51:22 [HarryH]

Thanks!

16:51:32 [briansuda]

rrsagent, set logs world-visible

16:51:35 [briansuda]

rrsagent, make logs world-visible

16:51:39 [briansuda]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

16:51:39 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/06/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html briansuda

16:55:02 [Zakim]

disconnecting the lone participant, jjc, in SW_GRDDL()11:00AM

16:55:03 [Zakim]

SW_GRDDL()11:00AM has ended

16:55:05 [Zakim]

Attendees were dbooth, briansuda, john-l, DanC, rreck, danja_, Harry_Halpin, Murray_Maloney, jjc, FabienG, danja

17:02:01 [jjc]

jjc has joined #grddl-wg