IRC log of SWEO on 2007-06-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:43:16 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #SWEO
13:43:16 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/06/06-SWEO-irc
13:43:23 [ivan]
rrsagent, set log public
13:43:37 [ivan]
Meeting: SW EO IG Weekly Telco
13:43:41 [ivan]
Chair: Susie
13:45:02 [mdzbor]
mdzbor has joined #SWEO
13:51:06 [IanJ]
IanJ has joined #sweo
13:51:12 [IanJ]
Hi Ivan.
13:51:24 [IanJ]
I am still on w3m
13:51:32 [IanJ]
not sure I will be able to join at the top of the hour.
13:52:03 [ivan]
I hope MCF will come in...
13:54:14 [Susie]
Susie has joined #sweo
13:57:57 [patranja]
patranja has joined #sweo
13:58:29 [marie]
marie has joined #SWEO
13:58:38 [leobard]
leobard has joined #sweo
13:58:43 [leobard]
hi guys.
13:58:55 [leobard]
I will be on the phone in 5 min.
13:59:41 [Zakim]
SW_SWEO()10:00AM has now started
13:59:41 [marie]
will move out of my meeting now and look for a quiet place
13:59:42 [ivan]
zakim, dial ivan-617
13:59:43 [Zakim]
ok, ivan; the call is being made
13:59:48 [Zakim]
+??P16
14:00:09 [ivan]
zakim, dial ivan-617
14:00:09 [Zakim]
ok, ivan; the call is being made
14:00:10 [Zakim]
+Ivan
14:00:29 [ivan]
zakim, ??P16 is susie
14:00:29 [Zakim]
+susie; got it
14:00:33 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
14:00:41 [wing]
wing has joined #sweo
14:00:49 [wing]
zakim, code?
14:00:49 [Zakim]
the conference code is 7936 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), wing
14:00:49 [kjetilk]
Zakim, IPcaller is me
14:00:51 [Zakim]
+kjetilk; got it
14:00:52 [Dunja]
Dunja has joined #SWEO
14:00:53 [ivan]
zakim, [IP is kjetil
14:00:53 [Zakim]
sorry, ivan, I do not recognize a party named '[IP'
14:01:08 [ivan]
zakim, IPcaller is kjetil
14:01:08 [Zakim]
sorry, ivan, I do not recognize a party named 'IPcaller'
14:01:20 [Zakim]
+[IBMCambridge]
14:01:22 [wing]
zakim, IBMCambridge is wing
14:01:22 [Zakim]
+wing; got it
14:02:01 [Zakim]
+??P27
14:02:13 [ivan]
zakim, ??P27 is martin
14:02:21 [Zakim]
+martin; got it
14:02:22 [marie]
zakim, dial mcf-mob
14:02:26 [marie]
(trying...)
14:02:31 [Zakim]
I am sorry, marie; I do not know a number for mcf-mob
14:02:35 [marie]
zut
14:02:38 [ivan]
:-)
14:03:20 [Zakim]
+Jeff_Schiffel
14:03:24 [Zakim]
+??P31
14:03:27 [Zakim]
+ +49.895.480.aaaa
14:03:53 [ivan]
zakim, ??P31 is benjee
14:03:53 [Zakim]
+benjee; got it
14:04:02 [Zakim]
+Marie-Claire
14:04:12 [kjetilk]
zakim, ??P31 is bengee
14:04:12 [Zakim]
I already had ??P31 as benjee, kjetilk
14:04:17 [Zakim]
+??P29
14:04:23 [ivan]
zakim, aaaa is Paula
14:04:23 [Zakim]
+Paula; got it
14:04:26 [kidehen]
kidehen has joined #sweo
14:04:38 [ivan]
zakim, ??P29 is Kingsley
14:04:38 [Zakim]
+Kingsley; got it
14:05:24 [ivan]
zakim, Paula is Dunja
14:05:24 [Zakim]
+Dunja; got it
14:05:53 [mdzbor]
agenda + SW flyer
14:05:57 [LeeF]
LeeF has joined #sweo
14:06:02 [Zakim]
+??P36
14:06:08 [mdzbor]
agenda + progress on logo
14:06:18 [mdzbor]
agenda + progress on enterpr. survey
14:06:29 [mdzbor]
agenda + next f2f mtg
14:06:34 [Zakim]
-Jeff_Schiffel
14:06:45 [LeeF]
zakim, wing holds wing, LeeF
14:06:45 [Zakim]
+wing, LeeF; got it
14:06:47 [mdzbor]
agenda + use case progress
14:06:53 [ivan]
zakim, ??P36 is Orri
14:06:53 [Zakim]
+Orri; got it
14:07:04 [Zakim]
+Jeff_Schiffel
14:07:05 [mdzbor]
open agendum 1
14:07:07 [LeeF]
zakim, who's talking?
14:07:10 [Zakim]
+ +49.631.205.7.aabb
14:07:18 [Zakim]
LeeF, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: susie (35%), Kingsley (20%), ??P32 (21%), Dunja (27%), Marie-Claire (81%)
14:07:39 [leobard]
sounds like somebody is at ESWC :-)
14:07:49 [Zakim]
+ +99086aacc
14:07:52 [ivan]
zakim, aabb is leo
14:07:52 [Zakim]
+leo; got it
14:08:14 [mdzbor]
paula starts with update on the flyer
14:08:29 [kjetilk]
Marie-Claire (81%), could it be you?
14:08:40 [PaulaP]
s/paula/Dunja
14:09:08 [Dunja]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/sweo/group/wiki/first_drafts
14:09:17 [mdzbor]
two proposals available to reflect discussion earlier this week
14:09:24 [mdzbor]
the link to proposals above
14:11:03 [mdzbor]
marie claire was involved in designs of W3c, etc. brochures
14:11:30 [mdzbor]
ivan proposed combining and collatin all comments, but that's not done yet
14:11:46 [Zakim]
+Frank_Chum
14:11:50 [mdzbor]
comment on cover page - good work, clear content
14:12:02 [Frank]
Frank has joined #SWEO
14:12:37 [mdzbor]
re graphics, it's a bit complicated, but that might be due to colours used
14:12:50 [mdzbor]
maybe diff colours to distinguish from other brochures?
14:13:40 [IanJ]
one comment from the comm team on graphics: please don't use a grid....likely to be associated with The Grid.
14:14:06 [mdzbor]
better hooks perhaps needed
14:14:17 [mdzbor]
e.g. "get smarter with richer..."
14:14:36 [kidehen]
+q
14:14:43 [mdzbor]
"make your data richer", "leverage your business with..." = sex up the catchphrase(s) :-)
14:14:58 [kidehen]
basically we need a puchline
14:15:03 [LeeF]
"free beer inside"
14:15:03 [kidehen]
punchline
14:15:24 [mdzbor]
susie emphasizes the audience is mainly non-geek
14:15:27 [kidehen]
none geek punchline like: Information at your fingertips
14:15:34 [LeeF]
The Semantic Web: Win Lots of $$$$$!!!111
14:15:39 [kidehen]
old Microsoft message :-)
14:15:50 [kidehen]
but in a platform independent way
14:15:54 [PaulaP]
:)
14:16:10 [mdzbor]
maybe include more focus on use cases? we need real examples of using SW, how people can use it
14:16:22 [mdzbor]
maybe taking something from ivan's use case page
14:16:35 [kidehen]
+q
14:17:06 [mdzbor]
maybe multi-modal web brochure might be a good inspiration?
14:17:18 [mdzbor]
(marie provided examples to dunja)
14:17:22 [Frank]
The Semantic Web: Making the world green!!!!!!
14:17:26 [ivan]
q+
14:17:39 [ivan]
ack kidehen
14:18:10 [mdzbor]
kingsley also agrees with a need for a punchline: e.g "information at your fingertips (paltform independent"
14:18:25 [mdzbor]
flyer should contain something saying what is the value of SW
14:19:06 [mdzbor]
people should make suggestions of a punchline thru mailing list
14:19:54 [mdzbor]
ivan is worried of using words like "intelligent", "smart"....
14:20:04 [mdzbor]
(in the context of punchlines)
14:20:36 [mdzbor]
ivan says we should not create unreasonable expectations with too blown-up catchphrases
14:20:49 [Dunja]
+1
14:20:59 [mdzbor]
orri suggests emphasizing multiple datasets, combinations, etc
14:21:08 [PaulaP]
+1 to Ivan's comment
14:21:21 [kidehen]
Data Meshing without Compromise!
14:21:50 [kjetilk]
Giving you your data!
14:21:55 [kidehen]
Knowledge at your fingertips!
14:22:01 [kjetilk]
Delivering your data!
14:22:04 [PaulaP]
-1 to use 'data meshing'
14:22:20 [leobard]
The web is a database! :-)
14:22:22 [mdzbor]
should we sent proposals for phrases to the mailing list by (say) tomorrow?
14:22:27 [IanJ]
Learn More from What you Know
14:22:47 [kidehen]
Meshable Data Web!
14:22:57 [IanJ]
a tes souhaits
14:23:05 [leobard]
The ultimate slogan!
14:23:18 [mdzbor]
action: dunja sends mail to the list asking for slogan proposals
14:23:33 [ivan]
q?
14:23:42 [ivan]
ack ivan
14:23:51 [mdzbor]
ACTION: all contribute to the slogans via maling list
14:24:32 [mdzbor]
among use cases are some nice figures that might perhaps be reused in the flyer?
14:24:59 [mdzbor]
are more figures needed or shall we go for testimonials?
14:25:46 [mdzbor]
another point mentioned by marie claire is re covers/colour schemes
14:25:53 [Susie]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/sweo/group/wiki/first_drafts
14:26:57 [mdzbor]
we should use 'comapany colours" = blue
14:27:19 [mdzbor]
WWW+semantics looks cool, but may be hard to interpret?
14:27:32 [mdzbor]
ivan prefers second design (w/printed boards)
14:27:59 [IanJ]
please see above comment re: not using grid imagery from comm team
14:28:04 [mdzbor]
DNA helix conveys notion of science, boards convey technology, so it's a nice 'integration' of the two areas
14:29:14 [PaulaP]
+1 to mdzbor
14:29:37 [ivan]
ian, we are not sure what you refer to...
14:30:00 [mdzbor]
another point is about the idea of a grid and wavy lines
14:30:02 [IanJ]
the cover pages have grids on them.
14:30:10 [IanJ]
(horz, vert lines)
14:30:17 [IanJ]
grid suggests The Grid; risk of confusion
14:30:24 [mdzbor]
close this agendum
14:30:43 [mdzbor]
open agendum 4
14:30:48 [mdzbor]
open agendum 5
14:31:06 [IanJ]
w3m meeting has been extended...I am unlikely to be able to attend by phone.
14:31:10 [IanJ]
My sincere apologies.
14:31:41 [mdzbor]
re agenda item 1: logo is needed in format suitable for print (EPS, SVG,...)
14:31:43 [Dunja]
de@webxcerpt.com
14:32:10 [IanJ]
I may have to schedule time with Ivan + MCF to talk about logos, brochures, to provide you with more input.
14:32:21 [ivan]
mcf@w3.org -> Marie's email address
14:32:39 [Zakim]
-Marie-Claire
14:33:19 [mdzbor]
ian shall probably participate directly in a teleon, rather than ivan medaiting
14:33:51 [mdzbor]
ACTION: susie contacts Ian re logo, etc. maybe a small grp call with relevant people
14:34:03 [mdzbor]
now to item 5, use cases
14:34:09 [IanJ]
I am happy to attend, but for scheduling conflict.
14:34:35 [mdzbor]
ivan sez there was a bit of rush as we received 5 cases at once
14:35:20 [mdzbor]
index page has been processed with exhibit, but had to be scaled down due to some issues in presentation
14:35:29 [mdzbor]
we now have 18 cases, good work
14:35:56 [mdzbor]
ivan contacted some pending companies , offering existing cases as inspiration
14:36:06 [mdzbor]
this includes vodafone, siemens,...
14:36:40 [mdzbor]
ivan also spoke to HP (re Jena customers as a source of use cases?); also a US company
14:37:09 [mdzbor]
susie found info about DJ using SW in their operation, so ivan contacted them
14:37:23 [mdzbor]
current objective is to get from 18 to 50 entries....
14:37:42 [mdzbor]
so far we (mainly ivan) us doing very good job in promoting this activity
14:38:05 [mdzbor]
out of 18 we he have 11 already deployed slutions, 7 are more experimental
14:38:15 [mdzbor]
close this agendum
14:38:31 [mdzbor]
agenda add info gathering update
14:38:39 [mdzbor]
open agendum 7
14:38:46 [mdzbor]
open agendum 5
14:38:52 [kjetilk]
q+ to mention http://nepomuk-kde.semanticdesktop.org/ for a use case
14:39:10 [mdzbor]
leo sez there is a good collaboration between people involved in the task
14:39:39 [mdzbor]
there was some additional work done on the portal mainly on graphics
14:39:48 [mdzbor]
proposal of portal layout is now on wiki
14:40:20 [mdzbor]
ivan wants the portal to "look entirely different" :-)
14:40:26 [leobard]
ivan feedback to portalplans: it should be smoothly integrated with the SWEO pages
14:41:21 [mdzbor]
maybe we should reimport bibliography info?
14:42:07 [mdzbor]
the next thing should be the list of all sources we had (in public/private level of detail)
14:42:30 [mdzbor]
one can get answer to many things in sparql,
14:42:44 [mdzbor]
susie asks ivan if we can include use cases into info portal
14:43:21 [mdzbor]
would something like creative commons licence apply to individual use cases? or to their summaries"
14:43:39 [mdzbor]
use cases are copyrigth of submitters, not W3C, which is good
14:44:02 [mdzbor]
what can be CC licence could be ivan's rss feed, which can then go to the portal
14:44:47 [mdzbor]
essentially, CC would apply to one particular representation of the use cases, which can then be meshed into other stuff
14:45:18 [mdzbor]
ACTION: ivan to consider chaning the and including the copyright info into the RSS feed (instead of generic W3C lic.)
14:45:48 [mdzbor]
ivan also suggests that info portal should/could look like the SWEO page or like SemWeb@W3C page?
14:46:15 [mdzbor]
preferred design is W3C style of SWEO info portal (re colours, styles, W3C logo)
14:46:56 [mdzbor]
benjamin's doing a good job on designing things, but do we have "real designers" available?
14:47:28 [mdzbor]
dunja sez the same person working on the flyer can help with the web page, but ivan asks if we really need a designer (might be expensive)
14:47:54 [mdzbor]
we like benji's designs... :-)
14:47:58 [PaulaP]
I don't think we need a designer for a Web page
14:48:02 [bengee]
:)
14:48:23 [mdzbor]
paul walsh also proposed using their resources?
14:48:37 [PaulaP]
for a portal the most important thing is to easily find the needed information
14:49:36 [mdzbor]
benji can do basic strip-down design with simple layout, for more we can approach paul (segala)
14:50:04 [IanJ]
I can join now.
14:50:11 [IanJ]
should I, or too late?
14:50:13 [Susie]
yes
14:50:18 [IanJ]
zakim, what's the code?
14:50:18 [Zakim]
the conference code is 7936 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), IanJ
14:50:30 [mdzbor]
ACTION: Leo & Benjamin approach Paul Walsh (Segala) re designs, etc. (include Ian J as well?)
14:50:36 [Zakim]
+Ian
14:51:08 [marie]
marie has joined #sweo
14:51:10 [leobard]
just for the records, Paul's idea of helping was in this mail: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sweo-ig/2007Feb/0114.html
14:51:18 [bengee]
http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/TaskForces/Logos
14:51:29 [mdzbor]
ian's giving feedback on logos, etc
14:51:29 [IanJ]
zakim, who's here?
14:51:29 [Zakim]
On the phone I see susie, Ivan, kjetilk, wing, martin, benjee, Dunja, Kingsley, Orri, Jeff_Schiffel, leo, +99086aacc, Frank_Chum, Ian
14:51:31 [Zakim]
wing has wing, LeeF
14:51:32 [Zakim]
On IRC I see marie, FrankC, LeeF, kidehen, Dunja, wing, leobard, PaulaP, Susie, IanJ, mdzbor, RRSAgent, Zakim, bengee, ivan, kjetilk
14:52:13 [mdzbor]
ian sez that more abstract logos are good, could be used more widely
14:52:34 [mdzbor]
people appreciate harmonized look and feel across technologies
14:52:49 [mdzbor]
what is our timeframe fo getting these logos done?
14:53:28 [mdzbor]
there are a few standards efforts that are reaching the stage where they would need some logos, various groups already work on logo...
14:53:53 [mdzbor]
we contacted grddl and rdf/a people that we are working on a logo, harmonize, etc.
14:55:15 [mdzbor]
ian asks if this grp has some further changes to do on logos
14:55:36 [mdzbor]
susie sez we have a few proposals, but didn't progress before getting feedback from ian
14:56:31 [mdzbor]
ACTION: pass logos, graphics, etc. onto Ian, Fabrice (?)
14:56:48 [mdzbor]
include benjamin, dunja, paula,....
14:57:18 [mdzbor]
good examples of "talking logos" are OWL, sparql logos and the like
14:57:31 [marie]
+1 - i love them
14:58:40 [mdzbor]
clarification: logo effort should be talked thru in a smaller grp with relevant people e.g. via telecon
14:59:02 [mdzbor]
ivan asks whether brochures and logos shall be considered separately
14:59:25 [mdzbor]
(it might be good to have too many designers for one brochure)
14:59:39 [mdzbor]
s/be good/be not good
14:59:48 [kidehen]
the professional designer I offered seems to have been completely lost in the mix here :-)
15:00:01 [leobard]
sorry guys, have to go.
15:00:11 [leobard]
best regards.
15:00:23 [Zakim]
-leo
15:00:40 [mdzbor]
let's keep then brochure design and logo discussion/design separate
15:01:12 [mdzbor]
ian sez that the artwork in the flyer needs a bit sexing-up
15:02:25 [mdzbor]
ivan sez that so far there was discussion mainly on the cover and a bit about possible content, but not really the design of the insider
15:03:23 [mdzbor]
may be we should scale down on attention to graphical layout and start looking also into the actual text
15:03:38 [mdzbor]
...so that it's suitable not only for developers but also for non-techies
15:03:46 [marie]
+1
15:03:57 [Zakim]
- +99086aacc
15:04:28 [mdzbor]
ian suggests including an example of what SW is for, short, quick, simple "answer" to what we are actually talking about
15:04:50 [mdzbor]
...this is a smaller scope than revising full-scale FAQ-s
15:05:18 [mdzbor]
the point is to have some higher level wording
15:06:22 [mdzbor]
ACTION: Dunja would consult this with Ian, (Paula, Susie, Ivan) -- maybe schedule a call?
15:07:09 [mdzbor]
ian gives some cosntraints on this call
15:07:29 [IanJ]
proposed 11:30am ET on 12 June!
15:07:44 [mdzbor]
in the meantime, paula/dunja may look at use cases with a fresh eye to pick 1-2 examples that might be reused in the flyer?
15:09:01 [PaulaP]
I don't really have much time before June 12, but I can of course try to do something
15:09:08 [mdzbor]
close this agendum
15:09:20 [LeeF]
zakim, you stubborn mule
15:09:20 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'you stubborn mule', LeeF
15:09:24 [Zakim]
-Kingsley
15:09:25 [Zakim]
-susie
15:09:26 [Zakim]
-Ian
15:09:27 [Zakim]
-Jeff_Schiffel
15:09:28 [Zakim]
-Orri
15:09:29 [Zakim]
-Frank_Chum
15:09:31 [Zakim]
-Ivan
15:09:32 [Zakim]
-kjetilk
15:09:34 [wing]
wing has left #sweo
15:09:34 [Zakim]
-wing
15:09:35 [Zakim]
-martin
15:09:42 [Zakim]
-Dunja
15:09:47 [FrankC]
FrankC has left #SWEO
15:09:50 [kjetilk]
q-
15:09:56 [mdzbor]
close this agendum
15:10:03 [mdzbor]
close this agendum
15:10:04 [ivan]
bengee, yes
15:10:08 [bengee]
'k
15:10:13 [ivan]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:10:13 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/06/06-SWEO-minutes.html ivan
15:10:21 [ivan]
rrsagent, bye
15:10:21 [RRSAgent]
I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/06-SWEO-actions.rdf :
15:10:21 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: dunja sends mail to the list asking for slogan proposals [1]
15:10:21 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/06-SWEO-irc#T14-23-18
15:10:21 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: all contribute to the slogans via maling list [2]
15:10:21 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/06-SWEO-irc#T14-23-51
15:10:21 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: susie contacts Ian re logo, etc. maybe a small grp call with relevant people [3]
15:10:21 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/06-SWEO-irc#T14-33-51
15:10:21 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: ivan to consider chaning the and including the copyright info into the RSS feed (instead of generic W3C lic.) [4]
15:10:21 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/06-SWEO-irc#T14-45-18
15:10:21 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Leo & Benjamin approach Paul Walsh (Segala) re designs, etc. (include Ian J as well?) [5]
15:10:21 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/06-SWEO-irc#T14-50-30
15:10:21 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: pass logos, graphics, etc. onto Ian, Fabrice (?) [6]
15:10:21 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/06-SWEO-irc#T14-56-31
15:10:21 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Dunja would consult this with Ian, (Paula, Susie, Ivan) -- maybe schedule a call? [7]
15:10:21 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/06-SWEO-irc#T15-06-22