17:44:41 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ua
17:44:42 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/05/31-ua-irc
17:44:57 <AllanJ> rrsagent, set logs public
17:45:51 <AllanJ> Meeting: UAAG telecon
17:46:47 <AllanJ> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2007AprJun/0042.html and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2007AprJun/0045.html
17:55:23 <JR> JR has joined #ua
17:58:18 <Zakim> WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has now started
17:58:25 <Zakim> +allanj
17:59:58 <Zakim> +[IBM]
18:00:16 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
18:00:20 <AllanJ> zakim, [IBM] is parente
18:00:20 <Zakim> +parente; got it
18:00:47 <AllanJ> zakim, [IPCALLER]  is JR
18:00:47 <Zakim> +JR; got it
18:02:59 <parente> parente has joined #ua
18:05:21 <AllanJ> http://www.webstandards.org/2007/05/20/current-browsers-and-the-user-agent-accessibility-guidelines-10/
18:08:39 <JR> Topic: 2. WCAG 2.0 Public Working Draft comments due by June 29:
18:08:44 <Zakim> +[IBM]
18:08:50 <JR> JA: WCAG response...
18:09:07 <JR> JA: Changed programmatically perceivable defn
18:09:18 <JR> Scribe: JR
18:09:20 <cklaws> cklaws has joined #ua
18:09:41 <JR> Ooops...
18:09:44 <JR> Topic: review WCAG response to UAAG comments -
18:10:08 <JR> JA: So both of our comments were accepted.
18:10:29 <JR> All: OK
18:11:27 <JR> JA: Were actualy submitted by JA
18:12:19 <JR> Topic: WCAG 2.0 Public Working Draft comments due by June 29:
18:12:31 <JR> JA: BIggest change is NO Baseline
18:12:42 <JR> JA: UAAG still not mentionned much
18:13:04 <JR> CL: Details?
18:13:14 <JR> JA: Looking for what they call it now...
18:13:54 <JR> JA: Can't find but has been substantially changed.
18:14:40 <JR> JA: So good to review...
18:15:13 <JR> JR: Will do a full review for ATAG and UAAG.
18:16:13 <JR> CL: CL or PP should take the Robust principle.
18:17:44 <JR> Action PP: Review Perceivable principle.
18:17:59 <JR> Action CL: Review Operable and Robust principles.
18:18:18 <JR> Action JA: Review Understandable principle.
18:18:29 <JR> Action JR: Review all principles.
18:19:32 <JR> JR: GV said to look at:1) the list of key issues and changes at
18:19:32 <JR> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2007/05/change-summary
18:19:32 <JR> 2) the Quick Reference at
18:19:32 <JR> http://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG20/quickref/
18:20:12 <JR> JA: Also I would sugget looking at the "Understanding doc"
18:20:29 <AllanJ> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20070517/
18:21:17 <JR> JA: Let's have it done by the 14th? or 21st?
18:22:12 <JR> Action All: The deadline for doing the WCAG2 review is June 21.
18:22:29 <JR> Topic: eaders attribute debate:
18:22:36 <JR> Topic: Headers attribute debate:
18:22:56 <JR> JA< CL: Lots of discussion in HTML group etc.
18:23:42 <JR> JA: Headers and IDs well used by ATs
18:24:07 <AllanJ> CL: Headers and ID are used in the DOM and accessibility APIs
18:24:33 <JR> JA: Patrick may be joing this group
18:26:06 <JR> JA, CL: Will work to gether to get feedback to Al Gilman.
18:26:34 <JR> CL: It's still being worked on via DOM...but in future through Accessibility APIs
18:26:50 <JR> JA: We've had this for 10 years
18:27:29 <JR> CL: Heuristics work ok for simple tables, but complex tables need this.
18:27:55 <JR> JA: PF meeting on wednesday
18:28:24 <JR> CL: Need quotes from ATs that they are using it.
18:29:04 <JR> CL: Screen readers trying to move all of this from DOM to the accessibility APIs
18:30:43 <JR> JA: Will send something to CL
18:30:47 <JR> JA: today
18:31:28 <JR> Topic: Discuss Need for Face-to-Face during November 5-10 Tech Plenary
18:31:48 <JR> JA: We should have something going by then.
18:32:20 <JR> JA: Would be good meet jointly with compound_docs, api, html, pf
18:32:33 <JR> CL: Maybe HTML direction will be more clear
18:32:59 <JR> CL: Can't commit yet
18:33:10 <JR> PP: Also can't commit
18:33:47 <JR> JR: AUWG will meet as well so need to coord on days so I can do both
18:34:24 <JR> CL: Usually WG mtgs mon, tues, thurs, fri
18:34:49 <JR> JA: Other groups to meet with?
18:35:04 <JR> CL: Need ARIA input from PF.
18:35:27 <JR> JA: Some PF update coming soon
18:36:20 <JR> Topic: Review ISO/IEC JTC 1 Special Working Group on Accessibility (SWG-A) "User Needs Summary (UNS)" Mappings completed by UAAG
18:36:34 <JR> JA: Pinged KF about his.
18:37:17 <AllanJ> CL: SWGA perspective is different from UAAG perspaective
18:37:33 <JR> JR, CL: The existing mappings have diff perspective than us.
18:38:16 <AllanJ> JR: user needs are end user specific, 
18:38:31 <AllanJ> ...how do you caption a light, or add video description
18:39:15 <AllanJ> CL: added additional comments 
18:40:02 <AllanJ> JA: will send compiled comments and mappings to Judy
18:40:25 <JR> CL: Lots of the user needs involved tactile.
18:40:35 <JR> CL: So many were NAs
18:41:21 <AllanJ> JR: UAAG missing simultaneous action ...
18:41:48 <AllanJ> ... multiple keystrokes - we handle through sticky keys from the OS
18:42:12 <AllanJ> CL: UAAG says respect OS accessibility conventions
18:43:12 <JR> JR: Labelled those things implicit or good to include.
18:43:18 <AllanJ> JR: UAAG doesn't have information in color in the UI chrome
18:43:55 <JR> CL: Also felt sometimes we had a whole guideline but not a particular CP.
18:45:19 <JR> JR: agreed.
18:45:47 <JR> JA: COuld be via OS.
18:45:52 <AllanJ> JR: UAAG don't have two error sounds that are the same
18:46:00 <AllanJ> CL: could be techniques
18:46:57 <JR> PP: Also found some things that didn't apply.
18:47:30 <JR> CL: Some terminilogy that was hard to decode.
18:48:10 <JR> PP: 13.10 - cues for help with multi-step operations.
18:48:54 <JR> PP: Prob not much that this could apply to.
18:49:18 <JR> JA: Will go on list.
18:50:12 <JR> JR: Sorry can't help much.
18:50:32 <JR> Action JA: Will compile all mappings (pls ping JR if help needed).
18:51:09 <JR> Action JA: Will share TEITAC mapping with UAAG.
18:51:18 <JR> (with the group)
18:52:38 <JR> CL: Please put on UA space.
18:52:47 <JR> JR: OK some other docs are there.
18:53:08 <JR> Topic: Structure UAAG 2.0 similar to ATAG 2.0 - discuss
18:54:51 <JR> JR: My stuff is still not done.
18:55:21 <JR> CL: Sent some comments - still having trouble getting head around perceivable understandable breakdown.
18:57:56 <AllanJ> CL: with AT what is 'perceivable'
18:58:28 <AllanJ> JR: perceivable means you can get some signal through some senses
18:59:01 <AllanJ> CL: there are too many overlaps between perceivable and understandable.
18:59:33 <AllanJ> CL: UAAG should not parrot WCAG, should have a rationalle
19:00:15 <AllanJ> CL: perceivable is closely related to understandable, why separate them
19:00:59 <AllanJ> JR: so, need an alt that is understandable/meaningful but also available to the user.
19:05:26 <JR> JA: Out of time...
19:05:30 <JR> JA: For next week...
19:06:11 <JR> JA: What do you think about "chrome" vs content display?
19:06:14 <JR> CL: Was ok.
19:06:32 <JR> JA: For next week...will continue perceivable discussion...
19:06:51 <JR> JA: Make pass at dumping them into the two sections.
19:08:25 <Zakim> -[IBM]
19:08:27 <Zakim> -parente
19:08:28 <Zakim> -allanj
19:08:49 <Zakim> -JR
19:08:50 <Zakim> WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has ended
19:08:52 <Zakim> Attendees were allanj, parente, JR, [IBM]
19:09:03 <JR> RRSAgent, make minutes
19:09:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/05/31-ua-minutes.html JR
19:09:09 <JR> RRSAgent, set logs public
19:09:15 <JR> Zakim, bye
19:09:15 <Zakim> Zakim has left #ua
19:09:22 <JR> RRSAgent, bye
19:09:22 <RRSAgent> I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/31-ua-actions.rdf :
19:09:22 <RRSAgent> ACTION: PP to Review Perceivable principle. [1]
19:09:22 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/31-ua-irc#T18-17-44
19:09:22 <RRSAgent> ACTION: CL to Review Operable and Robust principles. [2]
19:09:22 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/31-ua-irc#T18-17-59
19:09:22 <RRSAgent> ACTION: JA to Review Understandable principle. [3]
19:09:22 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/31-ua-irc#T18-18-18
19:09:22 <RRSAgent> ACTION: JR to Review all principles. [4]
19:09:22 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/31-ua-irc#T18-18-29
19:09:22 <RRSAgent> ACTION: All to The deadline for doing the WCAG2 review is June 21. [5]
19:09:22 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/31-ua-irc#T18-22-12
19:09:22 <RRSAgent> ACTION: JA to Will compile all mappings (pls ping JR if help needed). [6]
19:09:22 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/31-ua-irc#T18-50-32
19:09:22 <RRSAgent> ACTION: JA to Will share TEITAC mapping with UAAG. [7]
19:09:22 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/31-ua-irc#T18-51-09