IRC log of ua on 2007-05-31

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:44:41 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/05/31-ua-irc
17:44:57 [AllanJ]
rrsagent, set logs public
17:45:51 [AllanJ]
Meeting: UAAG telecon
17:46:47 [AllanJ]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2007AprJun/0042.html and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2007AprJun/0045.html
17:55:23 [JR]
JR has joined #ua
17:58:18 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has now started
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+allanj
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+[IBM]
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+[IPcaller]
18:00:20 [AllanJ]
zakim, [IBM] is parente
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+parente; got it
18:00:47 [AllanJ]
zakim, [IPCALLER] is JR
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+JR; got it
18:02:59 [parente]
parente has joined #ua
18:05:21 [AllanJ]
http://www.webstandards.org/2007/05/20/current-browsers-and-the-user-agent-accessibility-guidelines-10/
18:08:39 [JR]
Topic: 2. WCAG 2.0 Public Working Draft comments due by June 29:
18:08:44 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
18:08:50 [JR]
JA: WCAG response...
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JA: Changed programmatically perceivable defn
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Scribe: JR
18:09:20 [cklaws]
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Ooops...
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Topic: review WCAG response to UAAG comments -
18:10:08 [JR]
JA: So both of our comments were accepted.
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All: OK
18:11:27 [JR]
JA: Were actualy submitted by JA
18:12:19 [JR]
Topic: WCAG 2.0 Public Working Draft comments due by June 29:
18:12:31 [JR]
JA: BIggest change is NO Baseline
18:12:42 [JR]
JA: UAAG still not mentionned much
18:13:04 [JR]
CL: Details?
18:13:14 [JR]
JA: Looking for what they call it now...
18:13:54 [JR]
JA: Can't find but has been substantially changed.
18:14:40 [JR]
JA: So good to review...
18:15:13 [JR]
JR: Will do a full review for ATAG and UAAG.
18:16:13 [JR]
CL: CL or PP should take the Robust principle.
18:17:44 [JR]
Action PP: Review Perceivable principle.
18:17:59 [JR]
Action CL: Review Operable and Robust principles.
18:18:18 [JR]
Action JA: Review Understandable principle.
18:18:29 [JR]
Action JR: Review all principles.
18:19:32 [JR]
JR: GV said to look at:1) the list of key issues and changes at
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http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2007/05/change-summary
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2) the Quick Reference at
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http://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG20/quickref/
18:20:12 [JR]
JA: Also I would sugget looking at the "Understanding doc"
18:20:29 [AllanJ]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20070517/
18:21:17 [JR]
JA: Let's have it done by the 14th? or 21st?
18:22:12 [JR]
Action All: The deadline for doing the WCAG2 review is June 21.
18:22:29 [JR]
Topic: eaders attribute debate:
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Topic: Headers attribute debate:
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JA< CL: Lots of discussion in HTML group etc.
18:23:42 [JR]
JA: Headers and IDs well used by ATs
18:24:07 [AllanJ]
CL: Headers and ID are used in the DOM and accessibility APIs
18:24:33 [JR]
JA: Patrick may be joing this group
18:26:06 [JR]
JA, CL: Will work to gether to get feedback to Al Gilman.
18:26:34 [JR]
CL: It's still being worked on via DOM...but in future through Accessibility APIs
18:26:50 [JR]
JA: We've had this for 10 years
18:27:29 [JR]
CL: Heuristics work ok for simple tables, but complex tables need this.
18:27:55 [JR]
JA: PF meeting on wednesday
18:28:24 [JR]
CL: Need quotes from ATs that they are using it.
18:29:04 [JR]
CL: Screen readers trying to move all of this from DOM to the accessibility APIs
18:30:43 [JR]
JA: Will send something to CL
18:30:47 [JR]
JA: today
18:31:28 [JR]
Topic: Discuss Need for Face-to-Face during November 5-10 Tech Plenary
18:31:48 [JR]
JA: We should have something going by then.
18:32:20 [JR]
JA: Would be good meet jointly with compound_docs, api, html, pf
18:32:33 [JR]
CL: Maybe HTML direction will be more clear
18:32:59 [JR]
CL: Can't commit yet
18:33:10 [JR]
PP: Also can't commit
18:33:47 [JR]
JR: AUWG will meet as well so need to coord on days so I can do both
18:34:24 [JR]
CL: Usually WG mtgs mon, tues, thurs, fri
18:34:49 [JR]
JA: Other groups to meet with?
18:35:04 [JR]
CL: Need ARIA input from PF.
18:35:27 [JR]
JA: Some PF update coming soon
18:36:20 [JR]
Topic: Review ISO/IEC JTC 1 Special Working Group on Accessibility (SWG-A) "User Needs Summary (UNS)" Mappings completed by UAAG
18:36:34 [JR]
JA: Pinged KF about his.
18:37:17 [AllanJ]
CL: SWGA perspective is different from UAAG perspaective
18:37:33 [JR]
JR, CL: The existing mappings have diff perspective than us.
18:38:16 [AllanJ]
JR: user needs are end user specific,
18:38:31 [AllanJ]
...how do you caption a light, or add video description
18:39:15 [AllanJ]
CL: added additional comments
18:40:02 [AllanJ]
JA: will send compiled comments and mappings to Judy
18:40:25 [JR]
CL: Lots of the user needs involved tactile.
18:40:35 [JR]
CL: So many were NAs
18:41:21 [AllanJ]
JR: UAAG missing simultaneous action ...
18:41:48 [AllanJ]
... multiple keystrokes - we handle through sticky keys from the OS
18:42:12 [AllanJ]
CL: UAAG says respect OS accessibility conventions
18:43:12 [JR]
JR: Labelled those things implicit or good to include.
18:43:18 [AllanJ]
JR: UAAG doesn't have information in color in the UI chrome
18:43:55 [JR]
CL: Also felt sometimes we had a whole guideline but not a particular CP.
18:45:19 [JR]
JR: agreed.
18:45:47 [JR]
JA: COuld be via OS.
18:45:52 [AllanJ]
JR: UAAG don't have two error sounds that are the same
18:46:00 [AllanJ]
CL: could be techniques
18:46:57 [JR]
PP: Also found some things that didn't apply.
18:47:30 [JR]
CL: Some terminilogy that was hard to decode.
18:48:10 [JR]
PP: 13.10 - cues for help with multi-step operations.
18:48:54 [JR]
PP: Prob not much that this could apply to.
18:49:18 [JR]
JA: Will go on list.
18:50:12 [JR]
JR: Sorry can't help much.
18:50:32 [JR]
Action JA: Will compile all mappings (pls ping JR if help needed).
18:51:09 [JR]
Action JA: Will share TEITAC mapping with UAAG.
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(with the group)
18:52:38 [JR]
CL: Please put on UA space.
18:52:47 [JR]
JR: OK some other docs are there.
18:53:08 [JR]
Topic: Structure UAAG 2.0 similar to ATAG 2.0 - discuss
18:54:51 [JR]
JR: My stuff is still not done.
18:55:21 [JR]
CL: Sent some comments - still having trouble getting head around perceivable understandable breakdown.
18:57:56 [AllanJ]
CL: with AT what is 'perceivable'
18:58:28 [AllanJ]
JR: perceivable means you can get some signal through some senses
18:59:01 [AllanJ]
CL: there are too many overlaps between perceivable and understandable.
18:59:33 [AllanJ]
CL: UAAG should not parrot WCAG, should have a rationalle
19:00:15 [AllanJ]
CL: perceivable is closely related to understandable, why separate them
19:00:59 [AllanJ]
JR: so, need an alt that is understandable/meaningful but also available to the user.
19:05:26 [JR]
JA: Out of time...
19:05:30 [JR]
JA: For next week...
19:06:11 [JR]
JA: What do you think about "chrome" vs content display?
19:06:14 [JR]
CL: Was ok.
19:06:32 [JR]
JA: For next week...will continue perceivable discussion...
19:06:51 [JR]
JA: Make pass at dumping them into the two sections.
19:08:25 [Zakim]
-[IBM]
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-parente
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-allanj
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-JR
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WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has ended
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Attendees were allanj, parente, JR, [IBM]
19:09:03 [JR]
RRSAgent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/05/31-ua-minutes.html JR
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RRSAgent, set logs public
19:09:15 [JR]
Zakim, bye
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Zakim has left #ua
19:09:22 [JR]
RRSAgent, bye
19:09:22 [RRSAgent]
I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/31-ua-actions.rdf :
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ACTION: PP to Review Perceivable principle. [1]
19:09:22 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/31-ua-irc#T18-17-44
19:09:22 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: CL to Review Operable and Robust principles. [2]
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recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/31-ua-irc#T18-17-59
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ACTION: JA to Review Understandable principle. [3]
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recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/31-ua-irc#T18-18-18
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ACTION: JR to Review all principles. [4]
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recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/31-ua-irc#T18-18-29
19:09:22 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: All to The deadline for doing the WCAG2 review is June 21. [5]
19:09:22 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/31-ua-irc#T18-22-12
19:09:22 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JA to Will compile all mappings (pls ping JR if help needed). [6]
19:09:22 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/31-ua-irc#T18-50-32
19:09:22 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JA to Will share TEITAC mapping with UAAG. [7]
19:09:22 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/31-ua-irc#T18-51-09