IRC log of SWEO on 2007-05-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:12:06 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #SWEO

13:12:06 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/05/30-SWEO-irc

13:12:19 [ivan]

zakim, this will be sweo

13:12:19 [Zakim]

ok, ivan; I see SW_SWEO()10:00AM scheduled to start in 48 minutes

13:12:26 [ivan]

rrsagent, set log public

13:12:31 [ivan]

Chair: Susie

13:12:43 [ivan]

Meeting: W3C SWEO IG Weekly telco

13:12:53 [ivan]

Regrets: Pasquale, Danny, Paula

13:14:28 [drooks]

drooks has joined #sweo

13:36:11 [bengee]

bengee has joined #sweo

13:54:03 [patranja]

patranja has joined #sweo

14:00:03 [Frank]

Frank has joined #SWEO

14:00:14 [wing]

wing has joined #sweo

14:00:16 [Zakim]

SW_SWEO()10:00AM has now started

14:00:21 [Zakim]

+Karen

14:00:22 [wing]

zakim, code?

14:00:22 [Zakim]

the conference code is 7936 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), wing

14:00:23 [Zakim]

+ +1.317.435.aaaa

14:00:30 [Karen]

Karen has joined #sweo

14:00:57 [Zakim]

+[IBMCambridge]

14:01:00 [Zakim]

+Kingsley_Idehen

14:01:03 [wing]

zakim, IBMCambridge is wing

14:01:03 [Zakim]

+wing; got it

14:01:08 [Zakim]

+Frank_Chum

14:01:19 [ivan]

zakim, dial ivan-hoe

14:01:20 [Zakim]

I am sorry, ivan; I do not know a number for ivan-hoe

14:01:22 [Zakim]

+??P10

14:01:22 [ivan]

zakim, dial ivan-home

14:01:23 [Zakim]

ok, ivan; the call is being made

14:01:26 [Zakim]

+Ivan

14:01:37 [ivan]

???

14:01:38 [Zakim]

+PaulaP

14:01:38 [bengee]

Zakim, P10 is bengee

14:01:39 [Zakim]

sorry, bengee, I do not recognize a party named 'P10'

14:01:47 [bengee]

Zakim, ??P10 is bengee

14:01:47 [Zakim]

+bengee; got it

14:01:47 [ivan]

zakim does not call me...

14:01:50 [ivan]

zakim, drop ivan

14:01:50 [Zakim]

Ivan is being disconnected

14:01:52 [Zakim]

-Ivan

14:01:57 [ivan]

zakim, call ivan-home

14:01:58 [Zakim]

ok, ivan; the call is being made

14:02:03 [Zakim]

+Ivan

14:02:09 [Zakim]

+??P15

14:02:38 [ivan]

zakim, ??P15 is Leo

14:02:38 [Zakim]

+Leo; got it

14:02:51 [ivan]

zakim, who is here?

14:02:51 [Zakim]

On the phone I see +1.317.435.aaaa, Karen, wing, Kingsley_Idehen, Frank_Chum, bengee, Ivan, PaulaP (muted), Leo

14:02:53 [leobard]

leobard has joined #sweo

14:02:54 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Karen, wing, Frank, PaulaP, bengee, drooks, RRSAgent, Zakim, ivan, LeeF, _uldis, kjetilk

14:03:07 [ivan]

zakim, aaaa is susie

14:03:08 [Zakim]

+susie; got it

14:03:10 [kjetilk]

sorry, may join later, disaster recovery here as usual

14:03:12 [_uldis]

hi all

14:03:20 [ivan]

zakim, who is here?

14:03:22 [Zakim]

On the phone I see susie, Karen, wing, Kingsley_Idehen, Frank_Chum, bengee, Ivan, PaulaP (muted), Leo

14:03:26 [Zakim]

On IRC I see leobard, Karen, wing, Frank, PaulaP, bengee, drooks, RRSAgent, Zakim, ivan, LeeF, _uldis, kjetilk

14:04:00 [Zakim]

+??P19

14:04:03 [ivan]

scribenick: leobard

14:04:06 [ivan]

scribe: Leo

14:04:11 [ivan]

zakim, ??P19 is uldis

14:04:26 [Zakim]

+uldis; got it

14:05:10 [Zakim]

+ +0783371aabb

14:05:27 [drooks]

zakim, +0783371aabb is me

14:05:27 [Zakim]

+drooks; got it

14:05:53 [leobard]

Bengee reports on cooperations.

14:06:21 [leobard]

Bengee reports that the knowee project will get more exposure.

14:07:04 [leobard]

David Rooks reports that there are no updates on his community project, they are very busy

14:07:55 [ivan]

action: susie sends a mail to Paul on the segala project

14:09:40 [leobard]

Benjamin has worked on a draft of the semantic web info portal

14:10:57 [leobard]

Kingsley has connected Ivan with a contact at openlinksw

14:10:58 [kidehen]

kidehen has joined #sweo

14:11:45 [leobard]

Kingsley setup a database for our info-gathering task, and the issue then is to connect the w3c url to the endpoint at openlinksw

14:12:10 [leobard]

Ivan: the problem now is that people have to upload their data to this form

14:12:22 [leobard]

Kingsley has setup a form to upload files for infogathering

14:12:49 [leobard]

Ivan reports that W3C will have a hitachi fellow later this year, who might help here

14:13:21 [leobard]

Ivan hopes that the new fellow will do some of these things.

14:15:09 [ivan]

http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/TaskForces/InfoGathering

14:15:41 [leobard]

Susie asks which people could contribute to providing tutorials and other material

14:16:15 [leobard]

action: leo should collect people that may provide tutorials, and do some outreach to collect more material

14:16:51 [Zakim]

+Jeff_Schiffel

14:18:02 [Zakim]

+ +1.603.897.aacc

14:18:19 [ivan]

zakim, aacc is Melli

14:18:19 [Zakim]

+Melli; got it

14:18:50 [kidehen]

Susie: Are you going to give a San Jose update>?

14:19:11 [leobard]

Agreement was that we should focus in InformationGathering first on the infrastructure, and then to motivate core contributors, then to find missing material

14:19:20 [leobard]

next topic: Flyer

14:19:52 [PaulaP]

sounds good

14:20:19 [PaulaP]

I'll be @ ESWC, but I think Dunja will attend the meeting

14:20:52 [leobard]

ivan: the plan is that the w3c communication team has a meeting next monday,

14:20:53 [PaulaP]

I hope we can have another version of the cover for the SW flyer until then

14:20:57 [_uldis]

for the blue version i would prefer if the "Realising the Web of Data" were not that crowded togther w. the main title

14:21:11 [leobard]

ivan: where ian, marie-claire and bengee take part to discuss the flyers

14:21:14 [_uldis]

e.g., make it like http://sparql.captsolo.net/2007/05/blueversion-2.png

14:22:31 [leobard]

Paula reports on updates to the flyer, the colors and layout have been improved

14:22:40 [leobard]

ivan: copyright issue?

14:23:09 [leobard]

susie: at the bottom of the brochure it says that the copyright belongs to the rewerse project

14:23:29 [leobard]

susie: that would be good to have the copyright of w3c there

14:23:51 [leobard]

paulp: its ok, to have copyright w3c there and supported by rewerse as a attribution

14:25:13 [leobard]

bengee says about the logos for semantic web, there are others working on a logo and ..

14:25:35 [leobard]

ivan: sweo will make a contest open to logos, and have more submissions

14:25:39 [Karen]

q+ contest?

14:25:56 [leobard]

susie: this is somehow a mess

14:26:00 [bengee]

http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/TaskForces/Logos

14:26:19 [leobard]

q+

14:27:33 [leobard]

ivan: amongst the various button we have for ontologies, the grddl is the weakest. the others are good!

14:27:54 [leobard]

ivan: maybe bengee can use what those guys have as input for a button

14:29:05 [leobard]

bengee: i updated the wiki page with many new things: http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/TaskForces/Logos

14:29:52 [leobard]

ivan: this page looks good, when is this page finished?

14:30:07 [leobard]

bengee: one logo is left to do. then I am more or less done

14:30:39 [leobard]

action: ivan waits with the invitation to marie claire until the logos are finished.

14:30:56 [leobard]

action: bengee sends an e-mail to Ivan when the logos are finished

14:31:21 [leobard]

susie: next topic: USE CASES

14:31:32 [leobard]

ivan: at the moment we have 11 uploaded use cases

14:31:55 [leobard]

ivan: we will get the chinese application tomorrow, the FAO probably at the end of the week

14:32:12 [leobard]

ivan: when we have 12, we can get public. At this weekend we have enough.

14:32:29 [leobard]

gratulations!

14:32:41 [Karen]

q+

14:32:50 [leobard]

q-

14:33:05 [leobard]

q- contest?

14:34:36 [Karen]

SemTech conference use cases

14:38:53 [bengee]

ivan, the logo page is done

14:40:27 [Karen]

+1 look at application areas

14:41:04 [leobard]

... continuing reports on use cases by everyone ...

14:41:37 [leobard]

ivan: different application areas - we may compare what we have now with our list

14:42:16 [leobard]

karen: progress about the survey. there was progress

14:42:29 [leobard]

karen: we will have a finished version by next week

14:43:16 [leobard]

susie: next topic: conferences

14:43:28 [leobard]

http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/TaskForces/Conferences

14:43:37 [leobard]

susie: what conferences should we go to?

14:43:42 [leobard]

susie: what to do next?

14:43:44 [kidehen]

q+

14:46:53 [ivan]

ack karen

14:48:56 [Frank]

+q

14:49:09 [kidehen]

-q

14:49:18 [leobard]

susie reports from the semantic technologies conference

14:49:24 [leobard]

there were about 800 people there

14:49:45 [leobard]

susie: for next year i hope to see more solutions in production

14:50:09 [leobard]

susie: there was a software developers forum at one evening, with a panel discussion where I attended

14:50:31 [leobard]

susie: a guy from google was on the panel, saying it was so slow.

14:50:44 [leobard]

susie: (the progress of rdf is slow)

14:51:03 [kidehen]

R.Guha is who Susie mentioned

14:51:10 [kidehen]

deep history with RDF

14:51:24 [leobard]

susie: we reported on the use cases and available tools

14:51:31 [kidehen]

from MCF days at apple (precursor of RDF)

14:51:41 [kidehen]

ex. Cyc developer also

14:51:55 [leobard]

susie: uris are a cornerstone

14:51:59 [kidehen]

major historic figure for those who may not know

14:52:06 [Karen]

+1 one page document

14:52:30 [leobard]

susie: we need a one-page doucment about uris

14:52:46 [leobard]

karen, melli, frank were also at the ESTC

14:53:23 [ivan]

q?

14:53:24 [leobard]

the use of standards increased now on ESTC.

14:53:43 [leobard]

industry is more on the conference

14:54:04 [leobard]

we need to get beyond the "two people in a company prototyping some thingy"

14:54:38 [leobard]

melli: next year its going ot be very interesging

14:54:58 [leobard]

karen: people were itnerested in seing use cases and more educational material

14:55:02 [leobard]

q+

14:55:18 [leobard]

karen: omg mentioned to publish something soon

14:55:18 [Frank]

-q

14:55:48 [leobard]

karen: not much mention of grddl and rules

14:56:03 [leobard]

karen: knowledge management, search

14:57:20 [leobard]

paul: my plan is in oil&gas centric conferences, talk about semantic web applications there

14:57:35 [leobard]

paul: I don't see these guys going to semantic web conferences

14:57:43 [ivan]

s/paul/frank/

14:58:29 [leobard]

http://www.dfki.uni-kl.de/~sauermann/2006/11/cooluris/

14:59:49 [kidehen]

leobard: this comes down to URLs and URNs matter

14:59:57 [Zakim]

-susie

15:00:04 [kidehen]

are URIs HTTP only or not is the question?

15:00:15 [kidehen]

leobard: this is a contentious issue

15:00:28 [leobard]

ivan: take this document to TAG, Henry Thompson, DanC, TimBl, to let them bless the document

15:00:34 [kidehen]

TimBL's rule #2 is the issue here: Use HTTP URIs

15:00:49 [_uldis]

is there an url on ESW wiki for semantic web conferences like ESWC?

15:00:55 [leobard]

action: leobard, hand this document to the TAG

15:01:09 [_uldis]

SWEO conference page explicitly says - no ESWC, ...

15:01:36 [kidehen]

leobard: your diagram implies HTTP URI (URLs)

15:01:41 [Frank]

Frank has left #SWEO

15:01:41 [PaulaP]

bye

15:01:46 [Zakim]

-Karen

15:01:52 [Zakim]

-Melli

15:01:53 [leobard]

kidehen: lets talk about htis here a littlke more?`

15:01:58 [Zakim]

-uldis

15:02:04 [Zakim]

-bengee

15:02:06 [Zakim]

-PaulaP

15:02:07 [_uldis]

_uldis has left #sweo

15:02:09 [kidehen]

leobard: URIs should not be protocol specific is the contention issue

15:02:10 [wing]

wing has left #sweo

15:02:12 [Zakim]

-drooks

15:02:18 [Zakim]

-Kingsley_Idehen

15:02:22 [Zakim]

-Ivan

15:02:24 [Zakim]

-Jeff_Schiffel

15:02:29 [leobard]

kidehen: the TAG suggested to use HTTP uris for many many things.

15:02:30 [Zakim]

-wing

15:02:34 [Zakim]

-Frank_Chum

15:02:36 [Zakim]

-Leo

15:02:40 [Zakim]

SW_SWEO()10:00AM has ended

15:02:42 [Zakim]

Attendees were Karen, +1.317.435.aaaa, Kingsley_Idehen, wing, Frank_Chum, Ivan, PaulaP, bengee, Leo, susie, uldis, drooks, Jeff_Schiffel, +1.603.897.aacc, Melli

15:02:52 [leobard]

kidehen: there is a document flaming many other approaches:

15:02:54 [kidehen]

leobard: that's not the problem though, it's the perceived specificity of HTTP that is the problem

15:03:02 [leobard]

http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/URNsAndRegistries-50

15:03:28 [kidehen]

the important thing is to leave URIs as protocol independent so that URLs and UR

15:03:37 [kidehen]

URNs remain options

15:03:54 [leobard]

sure, yes.

15:04:03 [kidehen]

You should be able to dereference URIs without Apache for instance :-)

15:04:07 [leobard]

but the TAG people (in my understanding) want to push http here

15:04:22 [kidehen]

yes, but they are just the Web part of the Internet

15:04:41 [kidehen]

The internet is the Global WAN across with Distributed Objects flourish

15:04:47 [leobard]

our document on URIs wants to describe "cool uris" and "best practice", for newcomers,

15:05:03 [kidehen]

but just add URNs and the doc is absolutely fine

15:05:04 [leobard]

what else you can do with urn:isbn: is up to the arcane semwebbers

15:05:13 [kidehen]

no

15:05:37 [leobard]

hm

15:05:43 [kidehen]

You have Library of Congress, lots of DOI based Data Providers, LSID providers in Healthcare all part of this mesh too

15:05:58 [kidehen]

if you don't add URNs you are alienating these communities

15:06:23 [kidehen]

Distributed Objects as a principle is not as new as the Semantic Web (contrary to initial assumptions)

15:06:30 [leobard]

this is not the focus of the article. to make everyone happy.

15:06:37 [leobard]

its to get WEB people to the semantic web

15:06:38 [kidehen]

work in this area has been around for a very long time

15:06:55 [kidehen]

the Semantic Web is a Distributed Objects usage pattern

15:07:03 [leobard]

this is not a "standard article", its an explanatory article of TAG decisions

15:07:24 [kidehen]

but I thought this was an intro for newbies?

15:07:46 [kidehen]

newbies need to know that you give URIs to things on the Semantic Web

15:08:00 [drooks]

drooks has left #sweo

15:08:14 [kidehen]

then they need to know what roles URNs and URLs play

15:08:32 [LeeF]

+1 to not alienating people who don't (always) use HTTP URIs

15:08:44 [kidehen]

newbies will come from healthcare and life sciences, chemistry, digital libraries and many realms that already have naming and resolution schemes

15:08:45 [leobard]

the abstract article says: "...their effective use. We discuss two strategies, called 303 URIs and hash URIs"

15:08:53 [leobard]

so, this document fulfills its abstract.

15:08:56 [kidehen]

this is so important at this juncture

15:09:15 [kidehen]

I've already patched the Linked Data page on Wikipedia re. this matter

15:09:44 [leobard]

well, they are important, but this would bloat the article.

15:09:47 [leobard]

also read: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/URNsAndRegistries-50

15:09:54 [kidehen]

fulfills abstract if URNs are given coverage

15:10:12 [kidehen]

don't force people down the HTTP path inadvertently

15:11:07 [leobard]

this is not the only introduction to semantic web, we deliberatly kept out the more arcane parts where you have no standardized way of retrieving URIs.

15:11:35 [leobard]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

15:11:35 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/05/30-SWEO-minutes.html leobard

15:11:42 [leobard]

RRSAgent, make logs world-access

15:12:15 [ivan]

rrsagent, bye

15:12:15 [RRSAgent]

I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/30-SWEO-actions.rdf :

15:12:15 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: susie sends a mail to Paul on the segala project [1]

15:12:15 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/30-SWEO-irc#T14-07-55

15:12:15 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: leo should collect people that may provide tutorials, and do some outreach to collect more material [2]

15:12:15 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/30-SWEO-irc#T14-16-15

15:12:15 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: ivan waits with the invitation to marie claire until the logos are finished. [3]

15:12:15 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/30-SWEO-irc#T14-30-39

15:12:15 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: bengee sends an e-mail to Ivan when the logos are finished [4]

15:12:15 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/30-SWEO-irc#T14-30-56

15:12:15 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: leobard, hand this document to the TAG [5]

15:12:15 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/30-SWEO-irc#T15-00-55

15:12:17 [leobard]

kidehen: perhaps we should rewrite the abstract to say "this is only about web resources in the semantic web"

15:12:22 [ivan]

zakim, bye

15:12:22 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #sweo