13:12:06 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #SWEO
13:12:06 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/05/30-SWEO-irc
13:12:19 <ivan> zakim, this will be sweo
13:12:19 <Zakim> ok, ivan; I see SW_SWEO()10:00AM scheduled to start in 48 minutes
13:12:26 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public
13:12:31 <ivan> Chair: Susie
13:12:43 <ivan> Meeting: W3C SWEO IG Weekly telco
13:12:53 <ivan> Regrets: Pasquale, Danny, Paula
13:14:28 <drooks> drooks has joined #sweo
13:36:11 <bengee> bengee has joined #sweo
13:54:03 <patranja> patranja has joined #sweo
14:00:03 <Frank> Frank has joined #SWEO
14:00:14 <wing> wing has joined #sweo
14:00:16 <Zakim> SW_SWEO()10:00AM has now started
14:00:21 <Zakim> +Karen
14:00:22 <wing> zakim, code?
14:00:22 <Zakim> the conference code is 7936 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), wing
14:00:23 <Zakim> + +1.317.435.aaaa
14:00:30 <Karen> Karen has joined #sweo
14:00:57 <Zakim> +[IBMCambridge]
14:01:00 <Zakim> +Kingsley_Idehen
14:01:03 <wing> zakim, IBMCambridge is wing
14:01:03 <Zakim> +wing; got it
14:01:08 <Zakim> +Frank_Chum
14:01:19 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-hoe
14:01:20 <Zakim> I am sorry, ivan; I do not know a number for ivan-hoe
14:01:22 <Zakim> +??P10
14:01:22 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-home
14:01:23 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
14:01:26 <Zakim> +Ivan
14:01:37 <ivan> ???
14:01:38 <Zakim> +PaulaP
14:01:38 <bengee> Zakim, P10 is bengee
14:01:39 <Zakim> sorry, bengee, I do not recognize a party named 'P10'
14:01:47 <bengee> Zakim, ??P10 is bengee
14:01:47 <Zakim> +bengee; got it
14:01:47 <ivan> zakim does not call me...
14:01:50 <ivan> zakim, drop ivan
14:01:50 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected
14:01:52 <Zakim> -Ivan
14:01:57 <ivan> zakim, call ivan-home
14:01:58 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
14:02:03 <Zakim> +Ivan
14:02:09 <Zakim> +??P15
14:02:38 <ivan> zakim, ??P15 is Leo
14:02:38 <Zakim> +Leo; got it
14:02:51 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
14:02:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.317.435.aaaa, Karen, wing, Kingsley_Idehen, Frank_Chum, bengee, Ivan, PaulaP (muted), Leo
14:02:53 <leobard> leobard has joined #sweo
14:02:54 <Zakim> On IRC I see Karen, wing, Frank, PaulaP, bengee, drooks, RRSAgent, Zakim, ivan, LeeF, _uldis, kjetilk
14:03:07 <ivan> zakim, aaaa is susie
14:03:08 <Zakim> +susie; got it
14:03:10 <kjetilk> sorry, may join later, disaster recovery here as usual
14:03:12 <_uldis> hi all
14:03:20 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
14:03:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see susie, Karen, wing, Kingsley_Idehen, Frank_Chum, bengee, Ivan, PaulaP (muted), Leo
14:03:26 <Zakim> On IRC I see leobard, Karen, wing, Frank, PaulaP, bengee, drooks, RRSAgent, Zakim, ivan, LeeF, _uldis, kjetilk
14:04:00 <Zakim> +??P19
14:04:03 <ivan> scribenick: leobard
14:04:06 <ivan> scribe: Leo
14:04:11 <ivan> zakim, ??P19 is uldis
14:04:26 <Zakim> +uldis; got it
14:05:10 <Zakim> + +0783371aabb
14:05:27 <drooks> zakim, +0783371aabb is me
14:05:27 <Zakim> +drooks; got it
14:05:53 <leobard> Bengee reports on cooperations.
14:06:21 <leobard> Bengee reports that the knowee project will get more exposure.
14:07:04 <leobard> David Rooks reports that there are no updates on his community project, they are very busy
14:07:55 <ivan> action: susie sends a mail to Paul on the segala project
14:09:40 <leobard> Benjamin has worked on a draft of the semantic web info portal
14:10:57 <leobard> Kingsley has connected Ivan with a contact at openlinksw
14:10:58 <kidehen> kidehen has joined #sweo
14:11:45 <leobard> Kingsley setup a database for our info-gathering task, and the issue then is to connect the w3c url to the endpoint at openlinksw
14:12:10 <leobard> Ivan: the problem now is that people have to upload their data to this form
14:12:22 <leobard> Kingsley has setup a form to upload files for infogathering
14:12:49 <leobard> Ivan reports that W3C will have a hitachi fellow later this year, who might help here
14:13:21 <leobard> Ivan hopes that the new fellow will do some of these things.
14:15:09 <ivan> http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/TaskForces/InfoGathering
14:15:41 <leobard> Susie asks which people could contribute to providing tutorials and other material
14:16:15 <leobard> action: leo should collect people that may provide tutorials, and do some outreach to collect more material
14:16:51 <Zakim> +Jeff_Schiffel
14:18:02 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aacc
14:18:19 <ivan> zakim, aacc is Melli
14:18:19 <Zakim> +Melli; got it
14:18:50 <kidehen> Susie: Are you going to give a San Jose update>?
14:19:11 <leobard> Agreement was that we should focus in InformationGathering first on the infrastructure, and then to motivate core contributors, then to find missing material
14:19:20 <leobard> next topic: Flyer
14:19:52 <PaulaP> sounds good 
14:20:19 <PaulaP> I'll be @ ESWC, but I think Dunja will attend the meeting
14:20:52 <leobard> ivan: the plan is that the w3c communication team has a meeting next monday, 
14:20:53 <PaulaP> I hope we can have another version of the cover for the SW flyer until then
14:20:57 <_uldis> for the blue version i would prefer if the "Realising the Web of Data" were not that crowded togther w. the main title
14:21:11 <leobard> ivan: where ian, marie-claire and bengee take part to discuss the flyers
14:21:14 <_uldis> e.g., make it like http://sparql.captsolo.net/2007/05/blueversion-2.png
14:22:31 <leobard> Paula reports on updates to the flyer, the colors and layout have been improved
14:22:40 <leobard> ivan: copyright issue?
14:23:09 <leobard> susie: at the bottom of the brochure it says that the copyright belongs to the rewerse project
14:23:29 <leobard> susie: that would be good to have the copyright of w3c there
14:23:51 <leobard> paulp: its ok, to have copyright w3c there and supported by rewerse as a attribution
14:25:13 <leobard> bengee says about the logos for semantic web, there are others working on a logo and ..
14:25:35 <leobard> ivan: sweo will make a contest open to logos, and have more submissions
14:25:39 <Karen> q+ contest?
14:25:56 <leobard> susie: this is somehow a mess
14:26:00 <bengee> http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/TaskForces/Logos
14:26:19 <leobard> q+
14:27:33 <leobard> ivan: amongst the various button we have for ontologies, the grddl is the weakest. the others are good!
14:27:54 <leobard> ivan: maybe bengee can use what those guys have as input for a button
14:29:05 <leobard> bengee: i updated the wiki page with many new things: http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/TaskForces/Logos
14:29:52 <leobard> ivan: this page looks good, when is this page finished?
14:30:07 <leobard> bengee: one logo is left to do. then I am more or less done
14:30:39 <leobard> action: ivan waits with the invitation to marie claire until the logos are finished. 
14:30:56 <leobard> action: bengee sends an e-mail to Ivan when the logos are finished
14:31:21 <leobard> susie: next topic: USE CASES
14:31:32 <leobard> ivan: at the moment we have 11 uploaded use cases
14:31:55 <leobard> ivan: we will get the chinese application tomorrow, the FAO probably at the end of the week
14:32:12 <leobard> ivan: when we have 12, we can get public. At this weekend we have enough.
14:32:29 <leobard> gratulations!
14:32:41 <Karen> q+
14:32:50 <leobard> q-
14:33:05 <leobard> q- contest?
14:34:36 <Karen> SemTech conference use cases
14:38:53 <bengee> ivan, the logo page is done
14:40:27 <Karen> +1 look at application areas
14:41:04 <leobard> ... continuing reports on use cases by everyone ...
14:41:37 <leobard> ivan: different application areas - we may compare what we have now with our list
14:42:16 <leobard> karen: progress about the survey. there was progress
14:42:29 <leobard> karen: we will have a finished version by next week
14:43:16 <leobard> susie: next topic: conferences
14:43:28 <leobard> http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/TaskForces/Conferences
14:43:37 <leobard> susie: what conferences should we go to?
14:43:42 <leobard> susie: what to do next?
14:43:44 <kidehen> q+
14:46:53 <ivan> ack karen
14:48:56 <Frank> +q
14:49:09 <kidehen> -q
14:49:18 <leobard> susie reports from the semantic technologies conference
14:49:24 <leobard> there were about 800 people there
14:49:45 <leobard> susie: for next year i hope to see more solutions in production
14:50:09 <leobard> susie: there was a software developers forum at one evening, with a panel discussion where I attended
14:50:31 <leobard> susie: a guy from google was on the panel, saying it was so slow.
14:50:44 <leobard> susie: (the progress of rdf is slow)
14:51:03 <kidehen> R.Guha is who Susie mentioned
14:51:10 <kidehen> deep history with RDF
14:51:24 <leobard> susie: we reported on the use cases and available tools
14:51:31 <kidehen> from MCF days at apple (precursor of RDF)
14:51:41 <kidehen> ex. Cyc developer also
14:51:55 <leobard> susie: uris are a cornerstone
14:51:59 <kidehen> major historic figure for those who may not know
14:52:06 <Karen> +1 one page document
14:52:30 <leobard> susie: we need a one-page doucment about uris
14:52:46 <leobard> karen, melli, frank were also at the ESTC
14:53:23 <ivan> q?
14:53:24 <leobard> the use of standards increased now on ESTC.
14:53:43 <leobard> industry is more on the conference
14:54:04 <leobard> we need to get beyond the "two people in a company prototyping some thingy"
14:54:38 <leobard> melli: next year its going ot be very interesging
14:54:58 <leobard> karen: people were itnerested in seing use cases and more educational material
14:55:02 <leobard> q+
14:55:18 <leobard> karen: omg mentioned to publish something soon
14:55:18 <Frank> -q
14:55:48 <leobard> karen: not much mention of grddl and rules
14:56:03 <leobard> karen: knowledge management, search
14:57:20 <leobard> paul: my plan is in oil&gas centric conferences, talk about semantic web applications there
14:57:35 <leobard> paul: I don't see these guys going to semantic web conferences
14:57:43 <ivan> s/paul/frank/
14:58:29 <leobard> http://www.dfki.uni-kl.de/~sauermann/2006/11/cooluris/
14:59:49 <kidehen> leobard: this comes down to URLs and URNs matter
14:59:57 <Zakim> -susie
15:00:04 <kidehen> are URIs HTTP only or not is the question?
15:00:15 <kidehen> leobard: this is a contentious issue
15:00:28 <leobard> ivan: take this document to TAG, Henry Thompson, DanC, TimBl, to let them bless the document
15:00:34 <kidehen> TimBL's rule #2 is the issue here: Use HTTP URIs
15:00:49 <_uldis> is there an url on ESW wiki for semantic web conferences like ESWC?
15:00:55 <leobard> action: leobard, hand this document to the TAG
15:01:09 <_uldis> SWEO conference page explicitly says - no ESWC, ...
15:01:36 <kidehen> leobard: your diagram implies HTTP URI (URLs)
15:01:41 <Frank> Frank has left #SWEO
15:01:41 <PaulaP> bye
15:01:46 <Zakim> -Karen
15:01:52 <Zakim> -Melli
15:01:53 <leobard> kidehen: lets talk about htis here a littlke more?`
15:01:58 <Zakim> -uldis
15:02:04 <Zakim> -bengee
15:02:06 <Zakim> -PaulaP
15:02:07 <_uldis> _uldis has left #sweo
15:02:09 <kidehen> leobard: URIs should not be protocol specific is the contention issue
15:02:10 <wing> wing has left #sweo
15:02:12 <Zakim> -drooks
15:02:18 <Zakim> -Kingsley_Idehen
15:02:22 <Zakim> -Ivan
15:02:24 <Zakim> -Jeff_Schiffel
15:02:29 <leobard> kidehen: the TAG suggested to use HTTP uris for many many things.
15:02:30 <Zakim> -wing
15:02:34 <Zakim> -Frank_Chum
15:02:36 <Zakim> -Leo
15:02:40 <Zakim> SW_SWEO()10:00AM has ended
15:02:42 <Zakim> Attendees were Karen, +1.317.435.aaaa, Kingsley_Idehen, wing, Frank_Chum, Ivan, PaulaP, bengee, Leo, susie, uldis, drooks, Jeff_Schiffel, +1.603.897.aacc, Melli
15:02:52 <leobard> kidehen: there is a document flaming many other approaches:
15:02:54 <kidehen> leobard: that's not the problem though, it's the perceived specificity of HTTP that is the problem
15:03:02 <leobard> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/URNsAndRegistries-50
15:03:28 <kidehen> the important thing is to leave URIs as protocol independent so that URLs and UR
15:03:37 <kidehen> URNs remain options
15:03:54 <leobard> sure, yes.
15:04:03 <kidehen> You should be able to dereference URIs without Apache for instance :-)
15:04:07 <leobard> but the TAG people (in my understanding) want to push http here
15:04:22 <kidehen> yes, but they are just the Web part of the Internet
15:04:41 <kidehen> The internet is the Global WAN across with Distributed Objects flourish
15:04:47 <leobard> our document on URIs wants to describe "cool uris" and "best practice", for newcomers, 
15:05:03 <kidehen> but just add URNs and the doc is absolutely fine
15:05:04 <leobard> what else you can do with urn:isbn: is up to the arcane semwebbers
15:05:13 <kidehen> no
15:05:37 <leobard> hm
15:05:43 <kidehen> You have Library of Congress, lots of DOI based Data Providers, LSID providers in Healthcare all part of this mesh too
15:05:58 <kidehen> if you don't add URNs you are alienating these communities
15:06:23 <kidehen> Distributed Objects as a principle is not as new as the Semantic Web (contrary to initial assumptions)
15:06:30 <leobard> this is not the focus of the article. to make everyone happy.
15:06:37 <leobard> its to get WEB people to the semantic web
15:06:38 <kidehen> work in this area has been around for a very long time
15:06:55 <kidehen> the Semantic Web is a Distributed Objects usage pattern
15:07:03 <leobard> this is not a "standard article", its an explanatory article of TAG decisions
15:07:24 <kidehen> but I thought this was an intro for newbies?
15:07:46 <kidehen> newbies need to know that you give URIs to things on the Semantic Web
15:08:00 <drooks> drooks has left #sweo
15:08:14 <kidehen> then they need to know what roles  URNs and URLs play
15:08:32 <LeeF> +1 to not alienating people who don't (always) use HTTP URIs
15:08:44 <kidehen> newbies will come from healthcare and life sciences, chemistry, digital libraries and many realms that already have naming and resolution schemes
15:08:45 <leobard> the abstract article says: "...their effective use. We discuss two strategies, called 303 URIs and hash URIs"
15:08:53 <leobard> so, this document fulfills its abstract.
15:08:56 <kidehen> this is so important at this juncture
15:09:15 <kidehen> I've already patched the Linked Data page on Wikipedia re. this matter
15:09:44 <leobard> well, they are important, but this would bloat the article.
15:09:47 <leobard> also read: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/URNsAndRegistries-50
15:09:54 <kidehen> fulfills abstract if URNs are given coverage 
15:10:12 <kidehen> don't force people down the HTTP path inadvertently
15:11:07 <leobard> this is not the only introduction to semantic web, we deliberatly kept out the more arcane parts where you have no standardized way of retrieving URIs.
15:11:35 <leobard> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:11:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/05/30-SWEO-minutes.html leobard
15:11:42 <leobard> RRSAgent, make logs world-access
15:12:15 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
15:12:15 <RRSAgent> I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/30-SWEO-actions.rdf :
15:12:15 <RRSAgent> ACTION: susie sends a mail to Paul on the segala project [1]
15:12:15 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/30-SWEO-irc#T14-07-55
15:12:15 <RRSAgent> ACTION: leo should collect people that may provide tutorials, and do some outreach to collect more material [2]
15:12:15 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/30-SWEO-irc#T14-16-15
15:12:15 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ivan waits with the invitation to marie claire until the logos are finished.  [3]
15:12:15 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/30-SWEO-irc#T14-30-39
15:12:15 <RRSAgent> ACTION: bengee sends an e-mail to Ivan when the logos are finished [4]
15:12:15 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/30-SWEO-irc#T14-30-56
15:12:15 <RRSAgent> ACTION: leobard, hand this document to the TAG [5]
15:12:15 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/30-SWEO-irc#T15-00-55
15:12:17 <leobard> kidehen: perhaps we should rewrite the abstract to say "this is only about web resources in the semantic web"
15:12:22 <ivan> zakim, bye
15:12:22 <Zakim> Zakim has left #sweo