13:43:23 RRSAgent has joined #bpwg 13:43:23 logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/05/29-bpwg-irc 13:43:30 trackbot, off 13:43:35 trackbot, bye 13:43:35 trackbot has left #bpwg 13:43:48 Meeting: mobileOK Basic ref implementation task force 13:44:09 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobileok-checker/2007May/0122.html 13:44:13 Chair: Sean 13:44:47 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobileok-checker/2007May/0089.html Previous minutes 22 May 2007 13:45:01 Regrets: Roland 13:45:15 RRSAgent, make log public 13:51:18 jo, you asked to be pinged at this time 13:56:15 ruadhan has joined #bpwg 13:57:47 zakim, code? 13:57:47 the conference code is 2283 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jo 13:58:18 MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has now started 13:58:25 +jo 13:58:28 abel has joined #bpwg 13:58:56 srowen has joined #bpwg 13:59:07 zakim, Miguel is with me 13:59:07 sorry, abel, I do not recognize a party named 'abel' 13:59:29 zakim, who is on the phone? 13:59:29 On the phone I see jo 14:00:06 -jo 14:00:07 MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has ended 14:00:08 Attendees were jo 14:00:10 MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has now started 14:00:15 +[CTIC] 14:00:23 +Sean_Owen 14:00:44 zakim, [CTIC] is me 14:00:44 +abel; got it 14:00:55 zakim,Miguel is with me 14:00:55 +Miguel; got it 14:01:02 +jo 14:02:48 +??P3 14:03:58 -abel 14:04:24 +??P8 14:05:03 (hmm wonder if Roland or Dom is joining? if not we may have all our attendees) 14:05:20 +dom 14:05:50 Zakim, list attendees 14:05:50 As of this point the attendees have been Sean_Owen, abel, Miguel, jo, dom 14:06:04 zakim, P8 is me 14:06:04 sorry, abel, I do not recognize a party named 'P8' 14:06:22 zakim, ??P8 is me 14:06:22 +abel; got it 14:06:31 zakim, ??P3 is ruadhan 14:06:31 +ruadhan; got it 14:06:33 scribenick: jo 14:06:36 Zakim, list attendees 14:06:36 As of this point the attendees have been Sean_Owen, abel, Miguel, jo, dom, ruadhan 14:06:37 Scribe: Jo 14:06:53 Topic: CTIC Document 14:07:09 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobileok-checker/2007May/att-0087/thirdparties_study.html A study about third parties tools regarding mobileOK checker, by the CTIC guys 14:07:39 Sean: can you talk us through it 14:07:47 http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dhbw7zt7_0f8w6bq 14:08:02 Regrets+ Nacho 14:08:38 Abel: we looked at the thrid party tools in relation to moki 14:08:45 ... tidy etc. 14:09:22 ... it's desirable to make the moki document independent of the the particualr third party tools in use 14:09:41 ... we looked at Tag Soup, but there is a problem - it doesn't record error output 14:09:51 ... or tell you what repairs it has done 14:10:19 ... there are other tools, (Sean proposed them in an email) 14:10:27 q+ 14:10:28 ... does anyone have anything to add? 14:10:34 ack S 14:11:07 Sean: I agree we need to have a way of reporting errors and problems - they are all different and don't expose their errors in a clean and consistent way 14:11:13 q+ to comment on TagSoup 14:11:22 ... not so worried about Tag Soup 14:11:34 ... e.g. Jhove will be reporting all kinds of errors 14:11:41 ... so what do we do with them 14:11:50 ... I'd prefer not to modify the source code 14:12:13 ... do we need to maintain a mapping between exceptions and strings ... 14:12:21 ... it is a bit fragile 14:12:31 ... but may be the only way of doing it 14:12:56 ... similar approach to what Roland checked in with a load of error strings 14:13:11 ... so how can we map from the errors 14:13:26 ... do we need a framework? 14:13:28 q? 14:14:03 jo: I have done UTF-8/HTML validation with JHOVE. a bit disappointing 14:14:30 jo: UTF-8 errors are reasonable; have a byte offset as a structured value 14:14:45 jo: XHTML doesn't and its errors are fairly inscrutable 14:14:56 zakim, who is noisy? 14:15:08 jo, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: dom (36%), jo (14%) 14:15:38 want location info and internationalized strings 14:15:46 we also want it to continue parsing for errors 14:16:14 Ruadhan, XHTML error messages from ready.mobi are handy -- so we can get this info out of the standard library? 14:16:26 ruadhan: yeah we get line and col numbers, can be misleading sometimes 14:16:47 example: using attributes in DTDs 14:17:14 jo: looks like we need friendlier tools 14:17:15 q+ 14:17:22 ack jo 14:17:22 jo, you wanted to comment on TagSoup 14:17:38 otherwise we're faced with modifying JHOVE and don't want to do that 14:18:04 don't worry just now, but let's not hold up on the rest of the framework 14:18:44 jo: on tagsoup, I think we'll have to dive into this more. Not good at preserving DTD for example 14:18:58 ack srowen 14:18:59 scribenick: jo 14:19:31 sean: agree with Jo, and if Jhove is not useful and the standard library is for XHTML then let's 14:19:40 ... just use that 14:19:59 ... not so worried about Tag Soup - it's a bonus anyway 14:20:25 ... on error reporting, I like the framework from Roland on error reporting 14:20:33 ... and we should adopt that 14:21:07 .. and how do we map between module error reporting and our error reporting 14:21:28 ... it may be difficult to come up with a generic framework 14:22:11 ... let's not hold it up too much 14:22:39 jo: do you mean in the intermediate doc, I assume so 14:22:52 sean: hmmm, a lot of the work is done early on 14:23:02 ... so you have to pass it through that doc 14:24:33 jo: I think that the moki doc can be the place to put all necessary info 14:24:57 sean: moki can put "no errors" - if validation fialed why and where 14:25:05 s/fialed/failed/ 14:25:34 ... you say there is already a structure for this in your porposed format 14:25:37 jo: yes 14:26:00 matt has joined #bpwg 14:27:34 ... if you are going to grovel through libraries to find the string literals then you may as well change the code to report in a mroe sensible way 14:27:49 sean: any more comments on error reporting and handling? 14:28:09 ... if not let us set this aside a little bit, we need to dig into the code 14:28:30 ... we do want to avoid modifying the source code if we can 14:28:46 ... we will need a way of mapping error reporting into final strings 14:29:21 ... need to use the moki document format to transmit errors between phases 14:29:26 ... moving on 14:29:50 ... more on Jhove and utf-8 jo? 14:30:02 jo: not really, it worked and detected an error :-) 14:30:13 Topic: DTDs 14:30:31 sean: we do want to remove dependencies on external DTDs 14:30:37 +100 to using a DTD catalog (W3C servers spend so much of their resources on serving DTDs...) 14:30:50 ... don't want failure because of dependency 14:30:57 q+ 14:31:16 ... will take an action to download copies of DTDs 14:31:31 ack r 14:31:53 ruadhan: I have code to do this with the Xerces resolver 14:32:27 sean: sounds as though you can inject this into the current code base? 14:32:31 ruadhan: sure 14:33:04 jo:we should decide which DTDs we need to collect 14:33:18 sean: let's have all the XHTML and the HTML 4 DTD 14:33:22 the OMA XHTML MP dtds? 14:33:34 if you can find them :-) 14:34:33 xhtml mp 1.0 is available; I don't think the 1.1 and 1.2 are available as their published URIs, but they are available somewhere else I think 14:34:40 s/as their/at their/ 14:35:53 sean: well we will have to have our own copy of that then 14:35:59 topic: aob 14:36:25 sean: not done too much this week except do nit-picking on Jo's [lousy] Java 14:36:45 ... preparing for an intern to arrive 14:36:57 ... anyone else got a status update? 14:37:57 q+ 14:38:01 jo: I'll carry on with doing the Java for moki 14:38:13 ... and finalizing that format 14:38:54 Abel: we will start to implement stuff - we have got our account working so we can prepare for the F2F 14:39:11 sean: we should all come to F2F with loads of working code already submitted 14:39:30 ... i am pleased with progress so far 14:39:42 ... no more comments then we can end the call now 14:39:50 ... and convene again next week 14:40:11 ... I still have an action on error code line number 14:40:29 -dom 14:40:31 Adjourned 14:40:32 -jo 14:40:34 -Sean_Owen 14:40:38 [regrets for next week, I'll be traveling] 14:40:42 -abel 14:41:01 zakim, who is on the phone? 14:41:01 On the phone I see ruadhan 14:41:10 zakim, drop ruadhan 14:41:10 ruadhan is being disconnected 14:41:11 MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has ended 14:41:13 Attendees were Sean_Owen, abel, Miguel, jo, dom, ruadhan 14:41:22 RRSAgent, draft minutes 14:41:22 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/05/29-bpwg-minutes.html dom 14:41:25 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:41:25 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/05/29-bpwg-minutes.html jo 14:41:47 Zakim, bye 14:41:47 Zakim has left #bpwg 14:44:02 jo has left #bpwg 14:55:01 ruadhan has left #bpwg