IRC log of grddl-wg on 2007-05-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:59:03 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #grddl-wg

14:59:03 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/05/23-grddl-wg-irc

14:59:23 [DanC]

in the presence of RRSAgent and all god's creation, I hereby authorize john-l to update http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/test_results

14:59:44 [john-l]

ACTION: john-l to update http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/test_results based on recent GRDDL.py changes.

14:59:44 [DanC]

1/2 ;-)

15:00:02 [john-l]

?

15:00:09 [DanC]

only half a smiley.

15:00:22 [DanC]

i.e. I meant it seriously, but I said it humorously

15:00:42 [DanC]

how about updating it now? can you do `make test_results_auto.html` ?

15:01:11 [john-l]

Nope, my ssh key is on my computer at home. At work we have stupid 'd0z3 boxen.

15:02:00 [DanC]

ah. boring.

15:02:07 [DanC]

Zakim, this is grddl

15:02:29 [Zakim]

grddl matches both SW_GRDDL()11:00AM and SW_GRDDL()11:00AM, DanC

15:02:41 [danja]

danja has joined #grddl-wg

15:03:58 [DanC]

Zakim, this is SW_GRDDL

15:03:58 [Zakim]

SW_GRDDL matches both SW_GRDDL()11:00AM and SW_GRDDL()11:00AM, DanC

15:04:14 [DanC]

Zakim, this is SW_GRDDL()11:00AM

15:04:14 [Zakim]

SW_GRDDL()11:00AM matches both SW_GRDDL()11:00AM and SW_GRDDL()11:00AM, DanC

15:04:33 [FabienG]

zakim, who's here?

15:04:33 [Zakim]

has not yet started, FabienG

15:04:34 [Zakim]

On IRC I see danja, RRSAgent, FabienG, Zakim, john-l, briansuda, DanC

15:06:20 [DanC]

Zakim, take up item 1

15:06:20 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2007-05-23T11:00-0400" taken up

15:07:53 [DanC]

Zakim, bye

15:07:53 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #grddl-wg

15:07:55 [Zakim]

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15:07:59 [DanC]

Zakim, this is GRDDL

15:07:59 [Zakim]

GRDDL matches both SW_GRDDL()11:00AM and SW_GRDDL()11:00AM, DanC

15:10:02 [Simone]

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15:10:09 [DanC]

Zakim, read agenda from http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/weekly-agenda

15:10:09 [Zakim]

working on it, DanC

15:10:10 [Zakim]

agenda+ Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2007-05-23T11:00-0400

15:10:11 [Zakim]

agendum 1 added

15:10:12 [Zakim]

agenda+ GRDDL Vocabulary

15:10:14 [Zakim]

agendum 2 added

15:10:16 [Zakim]

agenda+ Error handling

15:10:17 [Zakim]

agendum 3 added

15:10:18 [Zakim]

agenda+ #issue-base-param, follow-up

15:10:20 [Zakim]

agendum 4 added

15:10:21 [Zakim]

agenda+ Implementation Report, toward PR request

15:10:22 [Zakim]

agendum 5 added

15:10:24 [Zakim]

agenda+ Primer

15:10:26 [Zakim]

agendum 6 added

15:10:28 [Zakim]

agenda+ Advocating

15:10:30 [Zakim]

agendum 7 added

15:10:32 [Zakim]

agenda+ Pending GRDDL spec edits

15:10:34 [Zakim]

agendum 8 added

15:10:36 [Zakim]

agenda+ public-grddl-comments auditing

15:10:38 [Zakim]

agendum 9 added

15:10:40 [Zakim]

done reading agenda, DanC

15:10:45 [DanC]

Zakim, take up item 1

15:10:45 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2007-05-23T11:00-0400" taken up

15:11:15 [DanC]

Zakim, pick a victim

15:11:15 [Zakim]

sorry, DanC, I don't know what conference this is

15:11:22 [DanC]

Zakim, pick a scribe

15:11:22 [Zakim]

sorry, DanC, I don't know what conference this is

15:12:57 [briansuda_]

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15:13:35 [DanC]

Scribe: danja

15:14:01 [DanC]

Regrets: RReck

15:14:09 [john-l]

I note john-l, FabienG, DanC, danja, jjc, Simone, HarryH on the phone. Am I missing anyone?

15:14:23 [DanC]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007May/att-0038/16-grddl-wg-minutes.html minutes 16 May

15:14:45 [DanC]

RESOLVED: to approve minutes 16 May

15:15:10 [DanC]

regrets danc 30 May

15:15:26 [DanC]

HH travelling, but should be available 30 may

15:16:46 [DanC]

PROPOSED: to meet again 30 May, HH/JJC to chair, ...

15:16:54 [FabienG]

pick me

15:17:15 [DanC]

RESOLVED: to meet again 30 May, HH/JJC to chair, FabienG to scribe.

15:17:58 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

15:17:58 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "GRDDL Vocabulary" taken up

15:18:23 [danja]

jeremy: apologies, no caught up with actions

15:18:35 [DanC]

ACTION: jjc to look at namespace document closely. [CONTINUES]

15:19:02 [DanC]

chair doesn't see any reason for apology.

15:19:17 [danja]

holidays considered helpful

15:19:36 [danja]

ns doc action not urgent

15:19:43 [DanC]

jjc: we told a commentor that we'd do it[?] before PR

15:19:46 [danja]

on schedule for pr sometime in June

15:19:49 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

15:19:49 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "Error handling" taken up

15:20:06 [danja]

^ was HarryH

15:20:25 [DanC]

ACTION: jjc to write an normative test case showing that if the transform is broken, you should not get a partial result, you should get no results. [CONTINUES]

15:21:20 [danja]

DanC: error codes common in spec

15:21:25 [DanC]

no, not common

15:21:32 [danja]

jjc: lot of work

15:21:37 [DanC]

but there's large catalog of errors in XQuery

15:21:46 [danja]

not rare..?

15:22:06 [danja]

HarryH concerned about blocks to PR

15:23:13 [DanC]

DanC less concerned

15:23:19 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

15:23:19 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "#issue-base-param, follow-up" taken up

15:23:49 [DanC]

ACTION: jjc to write text about base-uri, which may become normative. [CONTINUES]

15:24:50 [DanC]

ACTION: john-l to implement htmlbase1 [DONE]

15:25:23 [danja]

htmlbase1 is already approved

15:25:51 [DanC]

jjc on beckett on base http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007May/0014.html

15:26:06 [danja]

Zakim, mute me

15:26:06 [Zakim]

sorry, danja, I don't know what conference this is

15:26:10 [danja]

grr

15:27:04 [jjc]

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15:27:54 [DanC]

beckett 4 May http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-comments/2007AprJun/0051.html

15:29:27 [danja]

HarryH suggests update of xslt

15:29:55 [danja]

fabien: last time we talked about base, should be taken from source

15:30:01 [danja]

jjc: correct for htmll

15:30:26 [danja]

fabian: if param not set...with h for local refs...?

15:30:37 [danja]

Danc: suggests no use for params

15:30:55 [danja]

fabian: useful if saved to local disk

15:31:10 [danja]

loses ref to source uri

15:31:22 [danja]

otherwise should be ok

15:31:32 [danja]

jjc: why not test without param

15:32:02 [danja]

jjc: if so add comment (giving fabiens exception) & reply to dajobe

15:32:20 [danja]

kept in primer material space

15:32:42 [DanC]

ACTION Fabien: clarify purpose of uri param in RDFa2RDFXML.xsl

15:34:25 [danja]

*60

15:34:29 [danja]

heh

15:34:37 [danja]

(wrong place)

15:35:13 [danja]

part of charter to define interop with RDFa

15:36:05 [DanC]

ACTION HH: remove or clarify base param in eRDF transformation

15:36:28 [danja]

DanC: online grddl service uses base params?

15:36:39 [DanC]

ACTION DanC: remove base param from online GRDDL service and home2rss.xsl

15:36:43 [danja]

HarryH: would be good to get it compliant with spec

15:36:58 [danja]

DanC: independent implementation, with bugs

15:37:37 [danja]

suggestion - ask Dom

15:37:52 [DanC]

ACTION HH: ask Dom to check his XSLT against current GRDDL tests

15:38:05 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

15:38:06 [Zakim]

agendum 5. "Implementation Report, toward PR request" taken up

15:38:52 [danja]

current version 1.13

15:38:58 [DanC]

ACTION: chimezie to start an index of tests by normative assertion (proxy for feature) [CONTINUES]

15:39:12 [danja]

(chime at conferences)

15:39:14 [DanC]

ACTION: HarryH to start an index of tests by issue (not urgent; due 30 May) [CONTINUES]

15:39:37 [DanC]

ACTION: john-l to turn "fails" into passes on GRDDL.py and rebuild test-results [DONE]

15:40:07 [john-l]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007May/att-0048/GRDDL-testing-summary_2007-05-22.html

15:40:18 [danja]

john-l , passed everything but eRDF 4 (not approved test)

15:40:33 [john-l]

(not yet checked in summary)

15:40:34 [DanC]

aha... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007May/att-0048/GRDDL-testing-summary_2007-05-22.html

15:40:54 [danja]

jjc: base URI issues in that case

15:41:04 [DanC]

embedded-rdf4 pass fail

15:41:13 [danja]

john-l: will take another look

15:41:36 [john-l]

ACTION: john-l to try to implement #embedded-rdf4

15:41:42 [danja]

jjc: monitoring approved cases

15:42:54 [danja]

"anyone remember why this test was unethical?" it sounded like...

15:43:05 [jjc]

^unethical^not applicable^

15:43:11 [danja]

ah, ta

15:44:21 [DanC]

"The precise relationship between the features of GRDDL and the approved tests, as well as the removal of unapproved tests, will happen before GRDDL Test Cases becomes a Proposed Recommendation." -- http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/test_results

15:44:26 [danja]

DanC: got a todo to clarify "not applicable"

15:45:04 [john-l]

Doesn't http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests#multiple-output explain the not applicable situation?

15:45:12 [danja]

john-l: the remaining case covered by previous action

15:45:53 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

15:45:53 [Zakim]

agendum 6. "Primer" taken up

15:46:05 [john-l]

ACTION: john-l to add link from report to spec explaining multiple results and not applicable relationship

15:46:40 [DanC]

ACTION: HarryH to check any primer fixes in, Murray and Jeremy to review once finished. [DONE]

15:46:47 [danja]

HarryH: primer near enough for reviewing

15:47:26 [danja]

jjc: waiting for go-ahead for review, you only get one decent review per reviewer

15:47:58 [danja]

HarryH: tempted to leave review actions until after PR (accurate..?)

15:48:22 [danja]

jjc: can't see getting to PR without primer

15:48:53 [danja]

DanC: looking at editors draft

15:48:57 [DanC]

ACTION jjc: review primer http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/doc29/primer.html v 1.71 2007/05/06

15:49:35 [DanC]

ACTION danja: review primer http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/doc29/primer.html v 1.71 2007/05/06

15:50:48 [danja]

HarryH: got Gnumeric format xslt only

15:51:20 [danja]

HarryH: wondering if healthcare example too complex, can swap in spreadsheet example

15:51:49 [danja]

jjc: probably about time to call it a day on primer (barring big errors)

15:52:37 [danja]

spreadsheet/healthcare different from use case pov

15:52:56 [danja]

DanC: have a look at mnot's Excel xslt

15:53:16 [DanC]

ACTION john-l : draft an excel spreadsheet primer section

15:53:23 [danja]

reviews - run examples, see if they break

15:53:54 [john-l]

ACTION: john-l to draft an Excel spreadsheet primer section

15:54:10 [danja]

jjc: doesn't expect primer to be rec track any more

15:54:18 [danja]

(audio breaking up)

15:54:50 [FabienG]

yes

15:55:10 [DanC]

PROPOSED: to take the primer to WG Note status in 1 week to 1 month

15:55:12 [DanC]

poll

15:55:26 [jjc]

(currently I would abstain)

15:55:29 [danja]

re. rec/note - I'll go with majority

15:55:47 [jjc]

that's called a 'concur'

15:55:57 [john-l]

jjc: Why would you abstain?

15:56:10 [jjc]

I've not looked at the text ever!

15:56:16 [john-l]

Ah. Good reason. :)

15:57:18 [danja]

suda's xslt

15:57:39 [danja]

"do you have specific issues" directed at wrong person

15:57:40 [DanC]

jjc's msg re suda's xslt http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Apr/0115.html

15:57:46 [john-l]

briansuda_: ping

15:58:26 [briansuda_]

yes

15:58:41 [john-l]

Can you give some more feedback on the invalid RDF question?

15:58:43 [danja]

jjc: nothing to add to that message at this stage

15:58:44 [john-l]

We're discussing it now.

15:58:51 [DanC]

briansuda_, the xmlns="" 's look bogus

15:59:04 [john-l]

For example, <type xmlns=""/>

15:59:16 [briansuda_]

i'm more than happy to fix things, just let me know how

15:59:29 [DanC]

er... we can only tell you what the symptoms are

15:59:41 [jjc]

it was hard to say, because the transform is complex

15:59:55 [danja]

examples from primer

15:59:56 [jjc]

http://suda.co.uk/projects/microformats/mf-templates.xsl

16:00:04 [jjc]

seemed to be the problem when I looked in detail

16:00:43 [danja]

HarryH: (plaintively) the transform runs...

16:01:01 [jjc]

some RDF tools are fussier than others

16:01:42 [danja]

reviews.rdf ...

16:01:44 [DanC]

review.rdf has no xmlns="" 's

16:02:36 [danja]

(jjc indistinct)

16:02:48 [danja]

may be taking advantage of a bug

16:02:54 [DanC]

<a href="review.rdf">a RDF version of the hotel reviews</a

16:02:56 [john-l]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/doc29/review.rdf ?

16:03:00 [jjc]

jjc: I think it is plausible that na XSLT iomplementation forgets the xmlns=""

16:03:01 [DanC]

yes, john-l

16:03:13 [jjc]

jjc and hence gets legal RDF output for the wrong reasons

16:03:32 [john-l]

That RDF file looks fine.

16:04:26 [danja]

]some of briansuda's code is linked from primer - could do with freezing

16:04:27 [john-l]

briansuda_: Can you produce a frozen stable version for the primer?

16:04:45 [briansuda_]

sure

16:04:56 [john-l]

That would be useful; I think that stuff needs to get to Harry.

16:05:17 [danja]

party!

16:05:23 [jjc]

The review.rdf differs from my msg of Apr

16:05:38 [danja]

bratwurst & weissbeir please...

16:05:49 [john-l]

jjc: Did you generate the RDF from that msg?

16:05:59 [jjc]

I don't remember

16:06:20 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

16:06:20 [Zakim]

agendum 7. "Advocating" taken up

16:06:43 [DanC]

ACTION: Chime to contact SemWebCG (CC IvanH) about who might be at STC '07 - mention session [DONE]

16:07:27 [danja]

logo competition in susie s's hands

16:07:56 [DanC]

ACTION: HH to e-mail GRDDL Logo contest announcement - semantic web at w3.org (pending Susie/SWEO). [CONTINUES]

16:08:21 [DanC]

I see b/w at http://www.siatec.net/grddl/grddl_01.png ; is that by design?

16:08:23 [danja]

the machine I'm skyping through just shutdown...

16:08:35 [DanC]

noted, danja

16:08:45 [jjc]

I'll continue making scribe notes for now

16:08:47 [DanC]

I'm inclined to adjourn.

16:08:48 [danja]

thanks

16:08:49 [john-l]

All the logos I looked at were b/w

16:08:54 [jjc]

That continue to be largely beer orders etc

16:09:04 [danja]

re. Danja to pick LeeF over Spreadsheet to RDF examples, does he have XSLT?

16:09:12 [danja]

short answer: no

16:09:28 [DanC]

mnot might

16:09:36 [danja]

long answer in comments at http://dannyayers.com/2007/05/20/spreadsheets-triples

16:09:37 [DanC]

PROPOSED: to adjourn

16:09:41 [DanC]

can I get a 2nd?

16:09:48 [jjc]

I second

16:09:49 [DanC]

any reason not to?

16:09:54 [DanC]

ADJOURN.

16:10:00 [jjc]

bye

16:10:01 [DanC]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

16:10:01 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/05/23-grddl-wg-minutes.html DanC

16:10:04 [FabienG]

bye

16:10:26 [FabienG]

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16:10:27 [DanC]

danja, hang on a sec while I chat with RRSAgent about the minutes, OK?

16:10:33 [DanC]

RRSAgent, make logs world-access

16:10:33 [danja]

ok

16:10:42 [danja]

thanks - I did get a 403

16:11:03 [DanC]

the world-access request has a latency of ~30seconds

16:11:23 [danja]

ok, so I take that, tidy it up & mail list within 2 days..?

16:11:35 [DanC]

right; lemme tidy it just a bit by IRC here 1st...

16:11:43 [DanC]

Meeting: GRDDL WG Weekly

16:11:50 [DanC]

Chair: DanC

16:12:08 [DanC]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

16:12:08 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/05/23-grddl-wg-minutes.html DanC

16:12:43 [DanC]

Simone, the logos seemed bigger than what I expected, too

16:13:11 [DanC]

Present: johnl-l, jjc, DanC, HarryH, danja, Simone

16:13:27 [DanC]

Present: johnl-l, jjc, DanC, HarryH, danja, Simone, FabienG

16:13:41 [DanC]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

16:13:41 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/05/23-grddl-wg-minutes.html DanC

16:14:19 [danja]

simone, any chance you could put them all on one page? (or are they already - I could only see individual pngs)

16:14:19 [DanC]

there, danja . the version of 2007/05/23 16:13:47 has the standard stuff.

16:14:26 [danja]

great, thanks DanC

16:14:45 [Simone]

danja: yes

16:15:06 [danja]

thanks Simone

16:15:10 [Simone]

danja, and also too small?

16:15:35 [danja]

the ones I looked at seemed ok...

16:16:08 [Simone]

danja, what is the number do You prefer?

16:16:22 [jjc]

jjc preferes #1 the second one

16:17:18 [Simone]

like Fabien's concept

16:17:37 [danja]

the cogs?

16:18:05 [danja]

industrial seems somehow appropriate

16:18:49 [Simone]

yes

16:19:14 [Simone]

other logos is a combination of cogs and balls

16:19:29 [Simone]

with the cogs that "create" the connection

16:21:33 [danja]

the small print will probably disappear when reduced, but I'm not sure there's a way around that without messing up the layout

16:25:57 [Simone]

the minimum size is 16x16 but i can try to have a good quality also on smaller icons, so I'll post a page with all logos and size reduced, or I can use the wiki if it's prefered

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21:19:39 [Zakim]

'restarting to clear state'

21:20:06 [Zakim]

restarting in 1 minute