13:43:12 RRSAgent has joined #bpwg 13:43:12 logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/05/22-bpwg-irc 13:43:16 RRSAgent, make logs public 13:43:27 Meeting: mobileOK Basic Reference implementation task force teleconf 13:43:31 Chair: Sean 13:43:56 -> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/Checker/ mobileOK Basic Reference implementation task force homepage 13:45:30 matt has joined #bpwg 13:58:58 abel has joined #bpwg 14:00:24 MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has now started 14:00:27 +Roland 14:00:29 srowen has joined #bpwg 14:00:32 + +34.98.429.aaaa - is perhaps CarlosI 14:01:02 zakim, CarlosI is me 14:01:02 +abel; got it 14:01:26 zakim, abel is with nacho 14:01:26 sorry, abel, I do not recognize a party named 'nacho' 14:01:30 nacho has joined #bpwg 14:01:37 zakim, Roland is me 14:01:37 +roland; got it 14:01:43 +Sean_Owen 14:01:45 zakim, abel is with nacho 14:01:45 sorry, abel, I do not recognize a party named 'nacho' 14:02:00 Zakim, abel also holds nacho 14:02:00 +nacho; got it 14:02:09 +dom 14:02:20 zakim,miguel is with me 14:02:20 +miguel; got it 14:02:41 +Ruadhan 14:03:12 Zakim, list participants 14:03:12 As of this point the attendees have been +34.98.429.aaaa, abel, roland, Sean_Owen, nacho, dom, miguel, Ruadhan 14:03:52 +jo 14:04:43 ScribeNick: dom 14:05:09 Sean: various issues to be discussed raised on the mailing list 14:05:15 ... nothing else specific I believe 14:05:22 ... we're all working towards the next milestone 14:05:43 ... Rolland asks a couple of questions on the list 14:06:02 ... 1st regarding the structure of the output of the current code vs what's on the home page 14:06:17 Rolland: indeed 14:06:29 ... there are discrepancies between moki and what the current code outputs 14:06:43 ... my question is where is the latest version of the moki document 14:06:44 q+ to comment on this 14:07:00 Sean: there is no real documentation right now 14:07:25 ... I expect the output and the documetn format are different right now 14:07:34 ... the only real ref is what is produced by the code 14:07:48 ... we probably should only worry on actual bugs introduced by the output document 14:08:06 q? 14:08:11 Rolland: for instance, the part that deals with HTML is in a different node than what is described 14:08:16 ... will send more details to the mailing list 14:08:28 ack me 14:08:28 jo, you wanted to comment on this 14:08:34 Sean: I intend to follow Jo's format as much as possible, so that may be a mistake 14:08:35 nacho has joined #bpwg 14:08:52 Jo: one of things I intend to do is to complete the documentation on the moki format 14:09:08 ... but I have been delayed with mobileOK LC2 and looking at the current code 14:09:26 ... I'm happy to take care of keeping the doc and the code in sync, in an iterative process 14:09:42 s/Rolland/Roland/ 14:09:57 ... the code I checked in this morning adds a couple of things (e.g. doctype def) 14:10:12 ... so it's already more compatible to what the example shows 14:10:59 ... a few more things needs to be looked at (e.g. utf8 validity markup, inferred encoding) 14:11:12 ... I also need to better understand what TagSoup is doing 14:11:18 ... I think that's crucial 14:11:33 ... we already include the original document as base64 14:11:50 ... but not really useful for debugging; would be better to output as escaped 14:12:28 ... as we go along, we'll probably deviate more and more from HTTP-in-RDF, which should probably feed our conversation with Shadi on the topic 14:12:46 s/Rolland/Roland/g 14:13:05 adds that he is not a Java programmer so "caveat emptor" 14:13:40 Roland: I'll need to update my test moki document, based on this discussion 14:13:45 Topic: Error messages 14:13:59 Sean: 2 approaches to report error messages 14:14:20 ... one based on Java error bundles (?) 14:14:28 ... introduces a strong dependency on java 14:14:40 q? 14:14:41 ... but is pretty solid and easy to set up 14:14:56 q+ to wonder if we can export from the java messages? 14:14:57 ... other option is to use XSLT to get error messages 14:15:09 ... main concern about this is I18N 14:15:40 ack me 14:15:40 jo, you wanted to wonder if we can export from the java messages? 14:15:42 ... wonder if you can transparently pass the user language in that case without having the deal explicitly with the language parameter 14:16:04 Jo: how easy is to generate the XSLT from the Java files? 14:16:22 ... from dotMobi's point of view, it would be useful to be able to rely on the XSLT without the dependency on java 14:17:25 Sean: main question re XSLT is I18N; does it require keeping the language parameter around? 14:18:16 Jo: [explains a possible solution the scribe didn't manage to capture] 14:19:12 [jo suggested that the language is specified as a style sheet parameter and that the error message file is accessed once in the style sheet] 14:20:08 Sean: that sounds like a good solution; Roland, would you be interested to prototype that change? 14:20:14 Roland: sure, will do 14:20:25 ACTION: Roland to implement the XSLT-based solution for I18N 14:20:25 Sorry, couldn't find user - Roland 14:20:55 trackbot, off 14:21:01 trackbot, bye 14:21:01 trackbot has left #bpwg 14:21:13 ACTION: Jo to update code and examples of moki to be more consistent 14:23:11 [we still have to try CVS, dom.. we'll do it tomorrow] 14:24:01 Topic: normalization/sorting of headers 14:24:05 Sean: currently, for sake of readibility, I'm sorting the HTTP headers, which Jo has a problem with 14:24:14 ... it helps testing too 14:24:28 ... (e.g. to diff output) 14:24:51 ... does it cause an actual problem? 14:25:10 Jo: I seem to remember that there are some corners of the HTTP spec where the order is significant 14:25:32 s/the order/the order of headers/ 14:25:57 ACTION: Jo to check the HTTP spec wrt ordering and duplication of HTTP headers 14:26:51 Sean: we're already normalizing the headers 14:27:01 Jo: not in all cases (e.g. values for Date, User-Agent) 14:27:20 ... we shouldn't do it for Location: either (since case is significant there) 14:27:46 Sean: still, we're already processing quite a bit of the headers of ease of access, sorting doesn't much on top of that 14:28:42 Jo: sure, but may be problematic; for instance, the Host: header I think must be first 14:28:47 Dom: indeed, I think that's true 14:28:59 Sean: but still not sure whether this affects mobileOK in any fashion 14:29:16 ... although I understand the need to keep this a more generic useful framework 14:29:46 Jo: also Vary headers may be relevant in this case; will check further as part of my action item 14:30:06 ... the Vary header may influence the way we react to a 303 Multiple choices 14:30:40 Topic: Other issues 14:31:40 Roland: the structure of the output document should allow for more information e.g. when the test fail, allowing to have code sample 14:32:24 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobileok-checker/2007May/0077.html Roland's message on introducing code samples 14:32:41 [observes that in general we need to think about the output format, it's another action I had but haven't done yet :-(] 14:32:57 s/code sample/source code fragment that triggered the error/g 14:33:53 Sean: indeed, very good point; any suggestion? That sounds tough 14:34:17 ACTION: Sean to think about inclusions of code fragments in the output format and send thoughts to ml 14:34:57 q+ 14:35:08 ack nacho 14:35:35 Nacho: Abel and Miguel sent this morning their analysis of the available tools and libraries for implementing the checker 14:35:51 ... I would like to encourage everyone to read it, and take part to it through google docs 14:36:02 what is the URI? 14:36:07 ... (just send me your gmail account if you want to participate) 14:36:07 http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dhbw7zt7_0f8w6bq 14:36:13 tx 14:36:56 Dom: I think we should go through it during our next call; lots of useful information and discussion in i 14:37:00 s/in i/in it/ 14:37:26 [it's a great resource, Nacho et al!] 14:37:39 [thanks, sir :-) ] 14:37:52 -dom 14:37:54 -Ruadhan 14:37:56 -jo 14:37:59 ruadhan has left #bpwg 14:38:00 nacho has left #bpwg 14:38:00 -roland 14:38:00 Zakim, list participants 14:38:01 As of this point the attendees have been +34.98.429.aaaa, abel, roland, Sean_Owen, nacho, dom, miguel, Ruadhan, jo 14:38:04 -Sean_Owen 14:38:05 RRSAgent, draft minutes 14:38:05 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/05/22-bpwg-minutes.html dom 14:38:06 -abel 14:38:07 MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has ended 14:38:09 Attendees were +34.98.429.aaaa, abel, roland, Sean_Owen, nacho, dom, miguel, Ruadhan, jo 14:38:10 Zakim, bye 14:38:10 Zakim has left #bpwg 14:38:16 RRSAgent, bye 14:38:16 I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/22-bpwg-actions.rdf : 14:38:16 ACTION: Roland to implement the XSLT-based solution for I18N [1] 14:38:16 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/22-bpwg-irc#T14-20-25 14:38:16 ACTION: Jo to update code and examples of moki to be more consistent [2] 14:38:16 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/22-bpwg-irc#T14-21-13 14:38:16 ACTION: Jo to check the HTTP spec wrt ordering and duplication of HTTP headers [3] 14:38:16 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/22-bpwg-irc#T14-25-57 14:38:16 ACTION: Sean to think about inclusions of code fragments in the output format and send thoughts to ml [4] 14:38:16 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/22-bpwg-irc#T14-34-17