15:56:15 RRSAgent has joined #tagmem 15:56:15 logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/05/21-tagmem-irc 15:58:55 zakim, this will be tag 15:58:55 ok, Stuart, I see TAG_Weekly()12:00PM already started 15:58:59 -??P11 15:59:24 +??P11 15:59:34 zakim, ??p11 is me 15:59:34 +Stuart; got it 16:00:33 zakim, please call ht-781 16:00:33 ok, ht; the call is being made 16:00:35 +Ht 16:00:41 +Raman 16:01:02 zakim, who is here? 16:01:02 On the phone I see TimBL, Stuart, Ht, Raman 16:01:05 On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, ht, timbl, Stuart, noah, Norm, DanC 16:01:39 raman has joined #tagmem 16:01:55 zakim, who is here? 16:01:57 On the phone I see TimBL, Stuart, Ht, Raman 16:01:59 On IRC I see raman, RRSAgent, Zakim, ht, timbl, Stuart, noah, Norm, DanC 16:02:52 +DanC 16:03:17 +[IBMCambridge] 16:03:28 Topic: Administrative (Convene, review records and agenda) 16:03:40 zakim, [IBMCambridge] is me 16:03:40 +noah; got it 16:04:10 -> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2007/05/14-minutes.html minutes 14 May 16:04:53 Regrets: dorchard, rhys 16:05:23 RESOLVED: to approve minutes 14 May 16:05:32 Next Telcon: Propose: 11th June -- scribe: Raman. 16:05:57 so RESOLVED. 16:06:17 re Check on Rhys' write access to TAG space - has that been resolved? ... SKW and DC did a bit about that. 16:06:55 agenda + Administrative 16:07:03 agenda + May F2F Preparation 16:07:11 agenda + NamespaceState-48 16:07:18 q+ 16:07:22 agenda + XMLVersioning-41 16:07:38 agenda + issue namespaceDocument-8 [NDW] 16:07:54 Zakim, take up item 2 16:07:54 agendum 2. "May F2F Preparation" taken up [from DanC] 16:08:23 TVR gives some logistics advice... 16:08:24 q? 16:08:32 ack timb 16:08:33 ack timbl 16:08:56 TBL: I'll be joining the rest of you a bit later on the 1st morning 16:09:58 -> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2007/05/29-agenda agenda of Mountain View meeting 16:10:46 HT: re 5 to 6pm, I doubt it. 16:12:15 DC: as scribing over breakfast is challenging, pls move administrative stuff elsewhere 16:12:51 SKW: purpose and direction might include our web presence 16:13:47 HT: purpose and direction seems like a good use of time, but better later in the meeting 16:14:10 q+ to ask about putting all of versioning together 16:14:22 ack noah 16:14:22 noah, you wanted to ask about putting all of versioning together 16:15:07 NM: re versioning... how about moving some of it to day 1, to let it percolate 16:15:45 (mild preference for moving some versioning as NM suggests) 16:19:49 agenda + XTech debrief [TVR] 16:22:50 SKW: DanC, you asked for "HTML Design Principles and Web Architecture", what's the/a goal? do you want to lead it? 16:23:16 DanC: I'm not sure whether those design principles are increasing or decreasing in importance 16:23:48 HT: if there's no other place to ask whether /TR/webarch/ is too strong in its position on version identification, then we need this 16:24:23 NM, TVR added some that the scribe missed; the chair seemed content to move on... scribe hopes this record has what everybody needs. 16:26:17 NM: there's enough diversity of opinion that it might be worth having a level-setting sections 16:26:21 q? 16:26:23 q+ 16:26:37 ack DanC 16:27:45 DC: I'm inclined to have the level-setting happen as an executive decision rather than discussing it as a group 16:28:47 SKW: I'm inclined to discuss tactics as a group 16:29:08 s/sections/session/ 16:31:43 SKW collects further advice on the ftf agenda; updates to appear 16:34:45 Zakim, take up item 3 16:34:45 agendum 3. "NamespaceState-48" taken up [from DanC] 16:35:28 SKW: we published a /TR/ over a year ago... 16:35:38 ... there's some interaction with patent policy mechanics 16:36:26 which doc? 16:36:45 http://www.w3.org/TR/namespaceState/ 16:36:45 -> http://www.w3.org/TR/namespaceState/ The Disposition of Names in an XML Namespace 16:37:18 DanC: I suggest end-of-life-ing it as a WG Note 16:37:41 SKW: how does one do that? 16:37:55 DanC: just write a new status-of-this-document and ask the webmaster 16:38:10 ACTION SKW: discuss with NDW moving /TR/namespaceState/ to WG Note 16:38:18 Zakim, next agendum 16:38:18 agendum 1. "Administrative" taken up [from DanC] 16:38:23 Zakim, close item 1 16:38:23 agendum 1, Administrative, closed 16:38:25 Zakim, next agendum 16:38:26 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 16:38:27 2. May F2F Preparation [from DanC] 16:38:28 agendum 2. "May F2F Preparation" taken up [from DanC] 16:38:34 Zakim, close item 2 16:38:34 agendum 2, May F2F Preparation, closed 16:38:35 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 16:38:36 4. XMLVersioning-41 [from DanC] 16:38:37 Zakim, next agendum 16:38:37 agendum 4. "XMLVersioning-41" taken up [from DanC] 16:40:05 SKW: so we have an update from DO, in 3 parts 16:40:45 ACTION: DanC Review definitions of partial understanding, backward compatible, and forward compatible. [CONTINUES] 16:41:16 DanC: I'm disappointed that the document is going in the opposite of the direction I advised, which was to integrate the definitions into the material so that they're motivated 16:41:56 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/actions#XMLVersioning-41 16:41:59 NM: I sent some comments on previous drafts [a pointer would be nifty]. Some of my comments have been addressed, some not. I'm interested in views from others. 16:42:08 SKW: I plan to [missed] 16:43:20 ACTION HT: to extend his paper (around Vancouver) to a definition of monotonicity and its relevance to our versioning finding. [CONTINUES] 16:43:34 HT: I don't expect to make progress before this coming ftf meeting 16:44:05 SKW: re "ACTION NDW: Produce some information about NVDL for the finding." ... what's NVDL? 16:44:25 HT: NVDL is a standard in progress in ISO... multiple namespace ... 16:44:35 (in progress?) 16:44:42 -TimBL 16:45:06 oops 16:45:20 ACTION NDW: Produce some information about NVDL for the finding. [CONTINUES] 16:45:24 +TimBL 16:45:54 ACTION HT: to unearth thread in which he and Robin Berjon discussed XML versioning [CONTINUES] 16:46:07 ACTION DO: to produce revised Versioning-part1 and Versioning-XML for May 18th [DONE] 16:46:14 Zakim, next item 16:46:14 agendum 5. "issue namespaceDocument-8" taken up [from NDW] 16:46:23 Zakim, close this item 16:46:23 agendum 5 closed 16:46:24 I see 1 item remaining on the agenda: 16:46:26 6. XTech debrief [from TVR via DanC] 16:46:27 Zakim, next item 16:46:27 agendum 6. "XTech debrief" taken up [from TVR] 16:47:02 SKW: just HT from the TAG went to this conference? 16:47:42 HT: yes. XTech has some history in SGML Europe, XML Europe. Edd Dumbill (sp?) has moved the "center of gravity" to web 2.0/browsers/etc. 16:47:48 HT: ~200 attendees 16:48:21 HT: tracks were: core technologies (least attended), browsers, open data (most attended), and one other 16:48:45 HT: Dave Beckett gave a very good talk on non-XML text formats. 16:49:05 ... he had some very trenchant [?] criticisms of them 16:49:57 ... YAML spec, which was aimed at being simpler than XML, is now 3x as long 16:50:20 HT: I went to Henri S.'s talk on conformance checking HTML 5... 16:50:59 ... follow-up discussion... "you've written this cool checker based on grammars and such; how about getting the WG to adapt these grammars?" 16:51:52 ... to which the response was [something like] "but then there would be a risk of conflicting definitions of the language" and such 16:53:45 HT: I had a good discussion with Anne, who's doing a thesis on an HTML5 processor... I just had a "making HTML tag soup declarative" paper accepted; so we agreed to exchange notes 16:54:42 NM: a colleague of mine is working on Operator, a firefox extension that handled calendar/contact microformats. EliasT announced, at XTech, support in Operator for RDFa too. 16:54:59 agenda + WWW2007 debrief 16:55:16 What about a RDF/XML , or an GRDDL plugin for Operator? 16:55:39 Zakim, take up item 7 16:55:39 agendum 7. "WWW2007 debrief" taken up [from DanC] 16:55:48 -> http://dig.csail.mit.edu/breadcrumbs/node/194 Linked Data at WWW2007: GRDDL, SPARQL, and Wikipedia, oh my! 16:56:47 +Norm 17:00:14 SKW sorta adjourned the meeting, or at least excused those who wish to go... so scribing here is light 17:00:31 Zakim, take up item namespace 17:00:31 'namespace' matches agenda items 3 and 5, DanC 17:00:37 -Norm 17:00:46 Zakim, take up item 5 17:00:46 agendum 5. "issue namespaceDocument-8" taken up [from NDW via DanC] 17:00:51 +Norm 17:01:17 NDW: so picking up from previous ftf... 17:01:47 well I sorta suggested that we might, but I didn't actually call "adjourned" and folks seemed to stay. 17:03:10 Subject: Describing the "nature" of a resource 17:03:10 Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 16:37:58 -0400 17:04:38 NDW: Dan, did you follow? 17:05:19 DanC: well, sorta... but the direction is different from what I was interested to see; I'm interested to start from extant RDDL documents and see what they're trying to do. e.g. how does someone exploit "... rddl:nature HTML4"? 17:05:53 NDW: that's a different approach 17:07:13 N3 and RDF/XML content negotiated? 17:07:15 SKW: I'm a little lost... I picked up on a tangent about resources and representations 17:08:35 TBL: can we look at this as generic resources? is there the case of RNG and XSD schemas that convey the same information? they have different natures? 17:09:10 NDW: yes, e.g. docbook.rng vs docbook.xsd 17:10:37 TBL: these are resources that typically have just one representation. 17:15:54 -Raman 17:15:55 -Norm 17:15:56 -noah 17:15:57 -DanC 17:15:59 -TimBL 17:15:59 -Stuart 17:16:00 TAG_Weekly()12:00PM has ended 17:16:01 Attendees were TimBL, Stuart, Ht, Raman, DanC, noah, Norm 17:16:32 noah has joined #tagmem 17:16:53 noah has joined #tagmem 17:17:03 noah has joined #tagmem 17:17:18 Noah has joined #tagmem 17:19:10 RRSAgent, draft minutes 17:19:10 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/05/21-tagmem-minutes.html DanC 17:19:27 RRSAgent, make logs world-access 17:19:31 RRSAgent, pointer? 17:19:31 See http://www.w3.org/2007/05/21-tagmem-irc#T17-19-31 17:37:53 Norm has joined #tagmem