IRC log of tagmem on 2007-05-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:56:15 [RRSAgent]
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15:56:15 [RRSAgent]
logging to
15:58:55 [Stuart]
zakim, this will be tag
15:58:55 [Zakim]
ok, Stuart, I see TAG_Weekly()12:00PM already started
15:58:59 [Zakim]
15:59:24 [Zakim]
15:59:34 [Stuart]
zakim, ??p11 is me
15:59:34 [Zakim]
+Stuart; got it
16:00:33 [ht]
zakim, please call ht-781
16:00:33 [Zakim]
ok, ht; the call is being made
16:00:35 [Zakim]
16:00:41 [Zakim]
16:01:02 [Stuart]
zakim, who is here?
16:01:02 [Zakim]
On the phone I see TimBL, Stuart, Ht, Raman
16:01:05 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, ht, timbl, Stuart, noah, Norm, DanC
16:01:39 [raman]
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16:01:55 [Stuart]
zakim, who is here?
16:01:57 [Zakim]
On the phone I see TimBL, Stuart, Ht, Raman
16:01:59 [Zakim]
On IRC I see raman, RRSAgent, Zakim, ht, timbl, Stuart, noah, Norm, DanC
16:02:52 [Zakim]
16:03:17 [Zakim]
16:03:28 [DanC]
Topic: Administrative (Convene, review records and agenda)
16:03:40 [noah]
zakim, [IBMCambridge] is me
16:03:40 [Zakim]
+noah; got it
16:04:10 [DanC]
-> minutes 14 May
16:04:53 [DanC]
Regrets: dorchard, rhys
16:05:23 [DanC]
RESOLVED: to approve minutes 14 May
16:05:32 [DanC]
Next Telcon: Propose: 11th June -- scribe: Raman.
16:05:57 [DanC]
16:06:17 [DanC]
re Check on Rhys' write access to TAG space - has that been resolved? ... SKW and DC did a bit about that.
16:06:55 [DanC]
agenda + Administrative
16:07:03 [DanC]
agenda + May F2F Preparation
16:07:11 [DanC]
agenda + NamespaceState-48
16:07:18 [timbl]
16:07:22 [DanC]
agenda + XMLVersioning-41
16:07:38 [DanC]
agenda + issue namespaceDocument-8 [NDW]
16:07:54 [DanC]
Zakim, take up item 2
16:07:54 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "May F2F Preparation" taken up [from DanC]
16:08:23 [DanC]
TVR gives some logistics advice...
16:08:24 [Stuart]
16:08:32 [DanC]
ack timb
16:08:33 [Stuart]
ack timbl
16:08:56 [DanC]
TBL: I'll be joining the rest of you a bit later on the 1st morning
16:09:58 [DanC]
-> agenda of Mountain View meeting
16:10:46 [DanC]
HT: re 5 to 6pm, I doubt it.
16:12:15 [DanC]
DC: as scribing over breakfast is challenging, pls move administrative stuff elsewhere
16:12:51 [DanC]
SKW: purpose and direction might include our web presence
16:13:47 [DanC]
HT: purpose and direction seems like a good use of time, but better later in the meeting
16:14:10 [noah]
q+ to ask about putting all of versioning together
16:14:22 [Stuart]
ack noah
16:14:22 [Zakim]
noah, you wanted to ask about putting all of versioning together
16:15:07 [DanC]
NM: re versioning... how about moving some of it to day 1, to let it percolate
16:15:45 [DanC]
(mild preference for moving some versioning as NM suggests)
16:19:49 [DanC]
agenda + XTech debrief [TVR]
16:22:50 [DanC]
SKW: DanC, you asked for "HTML Design Principles and Web Architecture", what's the/a goal? do you want to lead it?
16:23:16 [DanC]
DanC: I'm not sure whether those design principles are increasing or decreasing in importance
16:23:48 [DanC]
HT: if there's no other place to ask whether /TR/webarch/ is too strong in its position on version identification, then we need this
16:24:23 [DanC]
NM, TVR added some that the scribe missed; the chair seemed content to move on... scribe hopes this record has what everybody needs.
16:26:17 [DanC]
NM: there's enough diversity of opinion that it might be worth having a level-setting sections
16:26:21 [Stuart]
16:26:23 [DanC]
16:26:37 [Stuart]
ack DanC
16:27:45 [DanC]
DC: I'm inclined to have the level-setting happen as an executive decision rather than discussing it as a group
16:28:47 [DanC]
SKW: I'm inclined to discuss tactics as a group
16:29:08 [DanC]
16:31:43 [DanC]
SKW collects further advice on the ftf agenda; updates to appear
16:34:45 [DanC]
Zakim, take up item 3
16:34:45 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "NamespaceState-48" taken up [from DanC]
16:35:28 [DanC]
SKW: we published a /TR/ over a year ago...
16:35:38 [DanC]
... there's some interaction with patent policy mechanics
16:36:26 [timbl]
which doc?
16:36:45 [Stuart]
16:36:45 [DanC]
-> The Disposition of Names in an XML Namespace
16:37:18 [DanC]
DanC: I suggest end-of-life-ing it as a WG Note
16:37:41 [DanC]
SKW: how does one do that?
16:37:55 [DanC]
DanC: just write a new status-of-this-document and ask the webmaster
16:38:10 [DanC]
ACTION SKW: discuss with NDW moving /TR/namespaceState/ to WG Note
16:38:18 [DanC]
Zakim, next agendum
16:38:18 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Administrative" taken up [from DanC]
16:38:23 [DanC]
Zakim, close item 1
16:38:23 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Administrative, closed
16:38:25 [DanC]
Zakim, next agendum
16:38:26 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:38:27 [Zakim]
2. May F2F Preparation [from DanC]
16:38:28 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "May F2F Preparation" taken up [from DanC]
16:38:34 [DanC]
Zakim, close item 2
16:38:34 [Zakim]
agendum 2, May F2F Preparation, closed
16:38:35 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:38:36 [Zakim]
4. XMLVersioning-41 [from DanC]
16:38:37 [DanC]
Zakim, next agendum
16:38:37 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "XMLVersioning-41" taken up [from DanC]
16:40:05 [DanC]
SKW: so we have an update from DO, in 3 parts
16:40:45 [DanC]
ACTION: DanC Review definitions of partial understanding, backward compatible, and forward compatible. [CONTINUES]
16:41:16 [DanC]
DanC: I'm disappointed that the document is going in the opposite of the direction I advised, which was to integrate the definitions into the material so that they're motivated
16:41:56 [Stuart]
16:41:59 [DanC]
NM: I sent some comments on previous drafts [a pointer would be nifty]. Some of my comments have been addressed, some not. I'm interested in views from others.
16:42:08 [DanC]
SKW: I plan to [missed]
16:43:20 [DanC]
ACTION HT: to extend his paper (around Vancouver) to a definition of monotonicity and its relevance to our versioning finding. [CONTINUES]
16:43:34 [DanC]
HT: I don't expect to make progress before this coming ftf meeting
16:44:05 [DanC]
SKW: re "ACTION NDW: Produce some information about NVDL for the finding." ... what's NVDL?
16:44:25 [DanC]
HT: NVDL is a standard in progress in ISO... multiple namespace ...
16:44:35 [DanC]
(in progress?)
16:44:42 [Zakim]
16:45:06 [timbl]
16:45:20 [DanC]
ACTION NDW: Produce some information about NVDL for the finding. [CONTINUES]
16:45:24 [Zakim]
16:45:54 [DanC]
ACTION HT: to unearth thread in which he and Robin Berjon discussed XML versioning [CONTINUES]
16:46:07 [DanC]
ACTION DO: to produce revised Versioning-part1 and Versioning-XML for May 18th [DONE]
16:46:14 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
16:46:14 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "issue namespaceDocument-8" taken up [from NDW]
16:46:23 [DanC]
Zakim, close this item
16:46:23 [Zakim]
agendum 5 closed
16:46:24 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
16:46:26 [Zakim]
6. XTech debrief [from TVR via DanC]
16:47:02 [DanC]
SKW: just HT from the TAG went to this conference?
16:47:42 [DanC]
HT: yes. XTech has some history in SGML Europe, XML Europe. Edd Dumbill (sp?) has moved the "center of gravity" to web 2.0/browsers/etc.
16:47:48 [DanC]
HT: ~200 attendees
16:48:21 [DanC]
HT: tracks were: core technologies (least attended), browsers, open data (most attended), and one other
16:48:45 [DanC]
HT: Dave Beckett gave a very good talk on non-XML text formats.
16:49:05 [DanC]
... he had some very trenchant [?] criticisms of them
16:49:57 [DanC]
... YAML spec, which was aimed at being simpler than XML, is now 3x as long
16:50:20 [DanC]
HT: I went to Henri S.'s talk on conformance checking HTML 5...
16:50:59 [DanC]
... follow-up discussion... "you've written this cool checker based on grammars and such; how about getting the WG to adapt these grammars?"
16:51:52 [DanC]
... to which the response was [something like] "but then there would be a risk of conflicting definitions of the language" and such
16:53:45 [DanC]
HT: I had a good discussion with Anne, who's doing a thesis on an HTML5 processor... I just had a "making HTML tag soup declarative" paper accepted; so we agreed to exchange notes
16:54:42 [DanC]
NM: a colleague of mine is working on Operator, a firefox extension that handled calendar/contact microformats. EliasT announced, at XTech, support in Operator for RDFa too.
16:54:59 [DanC]
agenda + WWW2007 debrief
16:55:16 [timbl]
What about a RDF/XML , or an GRDDL plugin for Operator?
16:55:39 [DanC]
Zakim, take up item 7
16:55:39 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "WWW2007 debrief" taken up [from DanC]
16:56:47 [Zakim]
17:00:14 [DanC]
SKW sorta adjourned the meeting, or at least excused those who wish to go... so scribing here is light
17:00:31 [DanC]
Zakim, take up item namespace
17:00:31 [Zakim]
'namespace' matches agenda items 3 and 5, DanC
17:00:37 [Zakim]
17:00:46 [DanC]
Zakim, take up item 5
17:00:46 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "issue namespaceDocument-8" taken up [from NDW via DanC]
17:00:51 [Zakim]
17:01:17 [DanC]
NDW: so picking up from previous ftf...
17:01:47 [Stuart]
well I sorta suggested that we might, but I didn't actually call "adjourned" and folks seemed to stay.
17:03:10 [DanC]
Subject: Describing the "nature" of a resource
17:03:10 [DanC]
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 16:37:58 -0400
17:04:38 [DanC]
NDW: Dan, did you follow?
17:05:19 [DanC]
DanC: well, sorta... but the direction is different from what I was interested to see; I'm interested to start from extant RDDL documents and see what they're trying to do. e.g. how does someone exploit "... rddl:nature HTML4"?
17:05:53 [DanC]
NDW: that's a different approach
17:07:13 [Stuart]
N3 and RDF/XML content negotiated?
17:07:15 [DanC]
SKW: I'm a little lost... I picked up on a tangent about resources and representations
17:08:35 [DanC]
TBL: can we look at this as generic resources? is there the case of RNG and XSD schemas that convey the same information? they have different natures?
17:09:10 [DanC]
NDW: yes, e.g. docbook.rng vs docbook.xsd
17:15:54 [Zakim]
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17:15:57 [Zakim]
17:15:59 [Zakim]
17:15:59 [Zakim]
17:16:00 [Zakim]
TAG_Weekly()12:00PM has ended
17:16:01 [Zakim]
Attendees were TimBL, Stuart, Ht, Raman, DanC, noah, Norm
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17:19:10 [DanC]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:19:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate DanC
17:19:27 [DanC]
RRSAgent, make logs world-access
17:19:31 [DanC]
RRSAgent, pointer?
17:19:31 [RRSAgent]
17:37:53 [Norm]
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