19:31:52 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
19:31:52 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/05/10-wai-wcag-irc
19:31:57 <Ben> RRSAgent, do not start a new log
19:32:03 <Ben> RRSAgent, make log world
19:32:09 <Ben> zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
19:32:09 <Zakim> ok, Ben; I see WAI_WCAG()3:00PM scheduled to start 32 minutes ago
19:32:15 <Ben> Meeting: WCAG Weekly Telecon
19:32:26 <Ben> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2007AprJun/0110.html
19:32:33 <Ben> Chair: Gregg_Vanderheiden, Loretta_Guarino_Reid
19:32:42 <Ben> ScribeOptions: -scribeOnly
19:33:44 <Ben> Regrets: Cynthia_Shelly, Sofia_Celic, David_MacDonald, Don_Evans
19:33:57 <Ben> agenda+ Announcements, Questions, and Updates
19:34:06 <Ben> agenda+ 2.) Failures from 03 May (first 3)
19:34:15 <Ben> agenda+ Misc Survey for 07 May 2007 
19:34:25 <Ben> agenda+ Misc Questions for 10 May 2007 (Alternate Versions, def. of UI Component 
19:34:25 <Ben> and "competitive gaming")
19:34:33 <Ben> agenda+ Failures cleanup and relative luminance def for 10 May 
19:34:39 <Christophe> Christophe has joined #wai-wcag
19:34:41 <Ben> agenda+ Understanding Conformance Documents for 10 May 2007
19:34:51 <Ben> agenda+ Approve stabilization draft
19:55:52 <Loretta> Loretta has joined #wai-wcag
19:55:52 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()3:00PM has now started
19:55:59 <Zakim> +??P0
19:58:42 <Gregg> Gregg has joined #wai-wcag
19:58:49 <Zakim> +Drew_LaHart
19:59:10 <Makoto> Makoto has joined #wai-wcag
19:59:29 <Zakim> +??P2
19:59:40 <Zakim> +Bruce_Bailey
20:00:31 <Zakim> +??P4
20:00:42 <Makoto> zakim, ??P4 is Makoto_Ueki
20:00:42 <Zakim> +Makoto_Ueki; got it
20:01:53 <Gregg> zakim: mute ??P2
20:01:59 <Zakim> + +7.971.aaaa
20:02:28 <Gregg> zakim, mute ??P2
20:02:28 <Zakim> ??P2 should now be muted
20:02:42 <Sean> Sean has joined #wai-wcag
20:02:43 <Gregg> ack ??p2
20:02:57 <Zakim> +Andi_Snow_Weaver
20:03:16 <Zakim> +Christophe_Strobbe
20:03:17 <Andi> Andi has joined #wai-wcag
20:03:27 <Gregg> zakim, ??P2 is Katie HS
20:03:27 <Zakim> I don't understand '??P2 is Katie HS', Gregg
20:03:37 <Zakim> +Alex_Li
20:03:56 <judy> judy has joined #wai-wcag
20:04:01 <Gregg> zakim, ??P2 is KatieHS
20:04:01 <Zakim> +KatieHS; got it
20:04:16 <Zakim> +Judy
20:04:19 <Gregg> zakim, who is here
20:04:19 <Zakim> Gregg, you need to end that query with '?'
20:04:22 <Andi> zakim, who is on the phone?
20:04:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P0, Drew_LaHart, KatieHS, Bruce_Bailey, Makoto_Ueki, +7.971.aaaa, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Christophe_Strobbe, Alex_Li, Judy
20:04:31 <Loretta> any skype users there? How do I enter the conference code?
20:04:46 <Gregg> zakim, 7.971.aaaa is SEAN
20:04:46 <Zakim> sorry, Gregg, I do not recognize a party named '7.971.aaaa'
20:05:26 <Gregg>  zakim, +7.971.aaaa is SEAN
20:05:26 <Zakim> +SEAN; got it
20:06:46 <Gregg> zakim, scribe: Sean
20:06:46 <Zakim> I don't understand 'scribe: Sean', Gregg
20:06:52 <Ben> Ben has joined #wai-wcag
20:07:01 <Drew> Drew has joined #wai-wcag
20:07:11 <Ben> scribe: Sean
20:07:22 <Ben> zakim, who is on the phone?
20:07:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P0, Drew_LaHart, KatieHS, Bruce_Bailey, Makoto_Ueki, SEAN, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Christophe_Strobbe, Alex_Li, Judy
20:07:38 <Ben> zakim, ??P0 is Gregg_and_Ben
20:07:38 <Zakim> +Gregg_and_Ben; got it
20:09:23 <Ben> agenda?
20:09:29 <Ben> zakim, take up agendum 1
20:09:33 <Ben> RRSAgent, pointer?
20:09:33 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2007/05/10-wai-wcag-irc#T20-09-33
20:09:42 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Announcements, Questions, and Updates" taken up [from Ben]
20:09:43 <Zakim> -Judy
20:10:04 <Zakim> +Judy
20:10:21 <Ben> zakim, who is on the phone?
20:10:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see Gregg_and_Ben, Drew_LaHart, KatieHS, Bruce_Bailey, Makoto_Ueki, SEAN, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Christophe_Strobbe, Alex_Li, Judy
20:11:08 <Zakim> +??P10
20:11:27 <Ben> zakim, ??P10 is Loretta
20:11:27 <Zakim> +Loretta; got it
20:12:37 <Ben> zakim, take up agendum 1
20:12:37 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Announcements, Questions, and Updates" taken up [from Ben]
20:12:47 <judy> q+
20:17:27 <Sean> Sean has joined #wai-wcag
20:17:36 <Sean> Sean has left #wai-wcag
20:17:48 <Ben> scribe: Ben
20:18:35 <Ben> Resolution: chairs and staff contact will prepare summary of responses and invitation of comment and post anything to survey only if something is not a direct reflection of previous decisions
20:18:39 <Sean> Sean has joined #wai-wcag
20:20:17 <Ben> Interview with Judy Brewer on WCAG available - http://www.webstandards.org/learn/articles/askw3c/may2007/
20:20:41 <Ben> zakim, close this item
20:20:41 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Ben
20:20:45 <Ben> ack judy
20:20:49 <Ben> zakim, close this item
20:20:49 <Zakim> agendum 1 closed
20:20:50 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
20:20:50 <Sean> I think so
20:20:51 <Zakim> 2. 2.) Failures from 03 May (first 3) [from Ben]
20:20:54 <Ben> zakim, take up agendum 2
20:20:54 <Zakim> agendum 2. "2.) Failures from 03 May (first 3)" taken up [from Ben]
20:21:20 <Ben> Topic: Failure of 4.1.1 due to incorrect use of start and end tags or attribute markup
20:21:28 <Sean> topic: Failure of 4.1.1 due to incorrect use of start and end tags or attribute markup
20:21:35 <Ben> scribe Sean
20:21:39 <Ben> scribe: Sean
20:25:02 <Sean> action:sean to take cynthia's examples and create failures
20:28:51 <Gregg> ack b
20:30:42 <Zakim> +Tim_Boland
20:30:59 <Tim> Tim has joined #wai-wcag
20:33:22 <Sean> accepted Failure of 4.1.1 due to incorrect use of start and end tags or attribute markup as ammended
20:33:42 <Sean> topic Failure of SC 1.1.1 due to using look-alike glyphs to represent text without providing a text alternative
20:39:12 <Sean> accepted Failure of SC 1.1.1 due to using look-alike glyphs to represent text without providing a text alternative as amended
20:39:27 <Sean> topic Failure of SC 1.1.1 due to using ASCII art without providing a text alternative
20:42:48 <Zakim> +Michael_Cooper
20:43:24 <Sean> accepted Failure of SC 1.1.1 due to using ASCII art without providing a text alternative as amended
20:43:41 <Ben> zakim, close this item
20:43:41 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
20:43:42 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
20:43:43 <Zakim> 3. Misc Survey for 07 May 2007 [from Ben]
20:43:46 <Ben> zakim, take up agendum 3
20:43:46 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Misc Survey for 07 May 2007" taken up [from Ben]
20:45:03 <Sean> accept items e LC-921, 922, 1413: Proposed changes to 2.1.1 and 2.1.2, LC-1027, 1243, LC-483, LC-1048, Controlling Volume, LC-849, LC-580, LC-850, LC-627, G21: as unanimous
20:46:01 <Sean> topic:Remove "pictures" from GL 1.1
20:46:28 <Sean> accept Remove "pictures" from GL 1.1 as unanimous
20:50:36 <Sean> toppic LC-850: updated response
20:55:32 <Gregg> /me 
20:55:32 <Gregg> Is not incorrect HTML markup – but it would not constitute alternate text and would not be sufficient for use as  a text alternative.  If the Alt text were empty it would be stating that the image was decorative and did not need alternate text.    Technically,  
21:00:29 <Sean> accept LC-850: updated response as amended
21:01:06 <Ben> zakim, close this item
21:01:06 <Zakim> agendum 3 closed
21:01:07 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
21:01:08 <Zakim> 4. Misc Questions for 10 May 2007 (Alternate Versions, def. of UI Component [from Ben]
21:01:26 <Ben> zakim, take up agendum 4
21:01:26 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Misc Questions for 10 May 2007 (Alternate Versions, def. of UI Component" taken up [from Ben]
21:02:22 <Sean> topic: Alternate Versions
21:04:43 <Ben> zakim, who is making noise?
21:04:46 <judy> zakim, who's making noise?
21:04:56 <Zakim> Ben, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: KatieHS (49%), Andi_Snow_Weaver (36%), Loretta (18%)
21:05:07 <Zakim> judy, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: KatieHS (9%), Judy (9%)
21:05:43 <judy> q+
21:08:50 <Loretta> q+
21:08:57 <Loretta> ack j
21:09:15 <Loretta> q-
21:12:01 <Sean> +q
21:13:13 <Andi> q+
21:13:16 <Gregg> ack s
21:14:53 <Gregg> ack a
21:17:37 <Gregg> ack a
21:20:57 <Loretta> q+
21:25:40 <Loretta> ack l
21:27:31 <Loretta> q+
21:27:43 <Sean> q+
21:29:31 <Gregg> ack l
21:29:37 <Gregg> ack s
21:30:59 <Andi> q+
21:33:49 <Sean2> Sean2 has joined #wai-wcag
21:34:01 <Sean2> Sean2 has left #wai-wcag
21:34:01 <Sean2> Sean2 has joined #wai-wcag
21:34:55 <Ben> scribe: Sean2
21:34:57 <judy> q+
21:35:19 <Gregg> ack a
21:35:37 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #wai-wcag
21:35:40 <Gregg> ack j
21:35:44 <Gregg> q+
21:35:52 <Zakim> +Cooper
21:36:04 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
21:36:36 <Loretta> q
21:36:41 <Loretta> q+
21:38:21 <Gregg> ack b
21:38:28 <Gregg> akc g
21:38:30 <Gregg> ack g
21:38:53 <Gregg> ack l
21:39:01 <Andi> q+
21:40:43 <Gregg> ack a
21:41:51 <Loretta> q+
21:43:14 <Gregg> Q+
21:45:35 <Gregg> ack l
21:45:36 <Gregg> ack g
21:45:45 <Gregg> ack b
21:48:22 <Sean2> q+
21:50:28 <Andi> q+
21:50:49 <Gregg> ack sean
21:51:38 <Loretta> q+
21:51:46 <Gregg> q+
21:51:56 <Gregg> ack a
21:54:53 <Gregg> ack l 
21:55:52 <Loretta> q+
21:58:38 <Gregg> ack g
21:58:42 <Gregg> ack l
22:00:10 <judy> q+
22:00:19 <Loretta> q+
22:02:43 <Gregg> ack j
22:03:01 <Zakim> -Christophe_Strobbe
22:03:37 <Gregg> ack l
22:03:43 <Andi> q+
22:04:04 <Zakim> +Christophe_Strobbe
22:04:42 <Gregg> Q+
22:05:07 <Loretta> ack a
22:06:39 <Loretta> ack g
22:08:49 <Gregg> q+
22:11:11 <Andi> q+
22:11:18 <Loretta> ack g
22:11:52 <Gregg> Q+
22:12:01 <Loretta> ack a
22:12:17 <Ben> q+
22:12:41 <Loretta> ack g
22:13:44 <MichaelC> q+ to ask if technique to find alt versions can work outside of custom HTTP headers, which you can't set if you can't control server
22:14:08 <Sean2> +q
22:14:35 <Loretta> ack b
22:15:18 <MichaelC> ack me
22:15:18 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to ask if technique to find alt versions can work outside of custom HTTP headers, which you can't set if you can't control server
22:15:18 <Loretta> ack m
22:16:47 <Loretta> ack s
22:22:24 <judy> q+
22:22:37 <Sean> Sean has joined #wai-wcag
22:22:52 <Ben> scribe: Sean
22:23:11 <Loretta> q+
22:23:23 <Loretta> ack ju
22:24:38 <Zakim> -Judy
22:25:05 <Zakim> -Christophe_Strobbe
22:25:57 <Zakim> -Tim_Boland
22:28:17 <Sean> q+ the resolution is keep with current text, with editorial about the "at risk" techniques based on whether there are sufficient techniques find the conformat from the non conformat
22:35:30 <Sean> resolution is keep with current text, with editorial about the "at risk" techniques based on whether there are sufficient techniques find the conformat from the non conformat
22:36:27 <Sean> RESOLUTON: is keep with current text, with editorial about the "at risk" techniques based on whether there are sufficient techniques find the conformat from the non conformat
22:37:37 <Sean> action to gregg and sean andi alex and loretta : find sufficient techniques and plug in authros to create new ones.
22:39:58 <Sean> topic Remove "competitive gaming or" from 2.2.1
22:41:27 <Loretta> q+
22:42:56 <Loretta> q-
22:43:37 <Sean> reesolution: Remove "competitive gaming or" from 2.2.1
22:44:07 <Sean> action: gregg and brusce to come up with text for  the understanding document
22:44:30 <Sean> RESOLUTON: Remove "competitive gaming or" from 2.2.1
22:45:06 <Sean> action: to gregg and sean andi alex and loretta : find sufficient techniques and plug in authros to create new ones.
22:46:07 <Sean> topic 912: User interface component
22:47:06 <Sean> adopt 912: User interface component as amended
22:47:08 <Ben> zakim, close this item
22:47:08 <Zakim> agendum 4 closed
22:47:10 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:47:11 <Zakim> 5. Failures cleanup and relative luminance def for 10 May [from Ben]
22:47:12 <Ben> zakim, take up agendum 5
22:47:12 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Failures cleanup and relative luminance def for 10 May" taken up [from Ben]
22:48:16 <Sean> topic 1080: Link underlines
22:56:11 <Zakim> -Drew_LaHart
23:03:21 <Sean> adopt topic 1080: Link underlines as amended
23:04:02 <Sean> topic Failure of SC 1.2.1 by not associating a multimedia alternative with its associated text
23:09:12 <Sean> adopt Failure of SC 1.2.1 by not associating a multimedia alternative with its associated text as amended
23:13:45 <Sean> adopt Relative Luminance Definition as amended
23:14:07 <Ben> zakim, close this item
23:14:07 <Zakim> agendum 5 closed
23:14:08 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
23:14:09 <Zakim> 6. Understanding Conformance Documents for 10 May 2007 [from Ben]
23:14:12 <Ben> zakim, take up agendum 6
23:14:12 <Zakim> agendum 6. "Understanding Conformance Documents for 10 May 2007" taken up [from Ben]
23:14:26 <Sean> topic What does conformance mean? (section)
23:18:13 <Sean> adopt What does conformance mean? (section) as amended
23:18:41 <Sean> topic Understanding Accessibility Support (section)
23:25:36 <Sean> motion: Sean's edit "This means that either the technology implements and tests the accessibility [#apidef APIs] that are required in order for the users' assistive technology to make the technology accessible or..." accepted.
23:28:14 <Zakim> -Gregg_and_Ben
23:31:56 <Sean> adopt Understanding Accessibility Support (section) as amended
23:36:05 <Zakim> +Katie_Haritos-Shea
23:39:20 <Sean> motion: "add 'and use' to conformance section" - adopted
23:39:52 <Sean> adopt Understanding Documented lists of Web technologies with Accessibility Support (section) as amended
23:40:07 <Sean> topic Understanding Conformance Requirements (section)
23:52:04 <Zakim> -Bruce_Bailey
23:54:49 <Zakim> -Alex_Li
23:55:14 <Zakim> +Alex_Li
23:56:51 <Sean> motion: change guidelines conformance 6.3 to read "The content continues to meet the conformance requirements when the (non accessibility-supported) technology is turned on, turned off, or is not supported by a user agent." - adopted
00:01:50 <Zakim> -SEAN
00:03:06 <Sean> 01179719362
00:03:50 <Zakim> -Katie_Haritos-Shea
00:04:49 <Gregg> Sean can you give me that number again?
00:04:54 <Sean> sorry, my phone seems to have gobe bananas, try 0117 971 9730
00:11:25 <Sean> motion: make the note in #4 part of the main text - adopted
00:12:03 <Sean> s/main text/main text of conformance requirement #4/
00:19:00 <Gregg> /me Technologies that are not accessibility supported can be used, or technologies that are accessibility supported can be used in a non conforming manner, as long as all the information is also available using technologies that are accessibility supported, in a manner that does conform, and as long as the non-accessibility-supported material does not interfere.
00:20:33 <Sean> motion change conformance document #6 to add " Non-Interference: If Web technologies that are not accessibility supported are used on a page, or accessibility-supported technologies are used in a non-conforming way, they do not block the ability of the users to access the rest of the page." 
00:20:58 <Sean> change understanding to add note "Technologies that are not accessibility supported can be used, or technologies that are accessibility supported can be used in a non conforming manner, as long as all the information is also available using technologies that are accessibility supported, in a manner that does conform, and as long as the non-accessibility-supported material does not interfere."
00:24:50 <Sean> accept Understanding Conformance Requirements (section) as amended
00:27:45 <Sean> motion to empower the editors to make the examples look better - adopted
00:28:11 <Sean> action: editors to implement motion o make the examples look better
00:28:51 <Sean> accept Understanding Conformance Claims (section) 
00:36:46 <Sean> motion "accepting current draft for release as stabilisation draft, with the proviso that suitable editorial note for conformance reqt #4 be achieved through successive survey"
00:39:55 <Sean> adopted the motion
00:39:57 <Ben> Present: Gregg_Vanderheiden, Ben_Caldwell, Drew_LaHart, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Bruce_Bailey, Makoto_Ueki, Sean_Hayes, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Christophe_Strobbe, Alex_Li, Judy_Brewer, Loretta_Guarino-Reid, Alex_Li, Michael_Cooper
00:40:17 <Ben> zakim, close this item
00:40:17 <Zakim> agendum 6 closed
00:40:18 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
00:40:19 <Zakim> 7. Approve stabilization draft [from Ben]
00:41:09 <Sean> accept " Approve stabilization draft [from Ben]" - adopted
00:44:45 <Zakim> -Alex_Li
00:46:26 <Zakim> -Andi_Snow_Weaver
00:47:26 <Loretta> I'm frustrated with the time we are spending on this.
00:47:35 <Loretta> I don't think it is going to be so difficult.
00:47:45 <Loretta> (I could be wrong!)
00:48:16 <Loretta> Yes.
00:48:30 <Loretta> We are too tired to thrashthrough fresh process right now.,
00:49:24 <Loretta> that seems fine. OUr best effort by Monday night. 
00:50:08 <Sean> motion "editorial note will be best effort as of Monday night" (Boston time) - adoppted
00:50:24 <Loretta> Bye!
00:50:32 <Zakim> -Loretta
00:50:41 <Sean> RESOLUTION: "editorial note will be best effort as of Monday night" (Boston time) - adoppted
00:50:57 <Ben> zakim, close item 7
00:50:57 <Zakim> agendum 7, Approve stabilization draft, closed
00:50:58 <Zakim> I see nothing remaining on the agenda
00:50:59 <Zakim> -KatieHS
00:51:02 <Zakim> -Makoto_Ueki
00:51:05 <Zakim> -Cooper
00:51:07 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()3:00PM has ended
00:51:09 <Zakim> Attendees were Drew_LaHart, Bruce_Bailey, Makoto_Ueki, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Christophe_Strobbe, Alex_Li, KatieHS, Judy, SEAN, Gregg_and_Ben, Loretta, Tim_Boland, Michael_Cooper,
00:51:09 <Sean> Sean has left #wai-wcag
00:51:11 <Zakim> ... Cooper, Katie_Haritos-Shea
00:51:15 <Ben> zakim, bye
00:51:15 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wai-wcag
00:51:19 <Ben> RRSAgent, bye
00:51:19 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/10-wai-wcag-actions.rdf :
00:51:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: sean to take cynthia's examples and create failures [1]
00:51:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/10-wai-wcag-irc#T20-25-02
00:51:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: gregg and brusce to come up with text for  the understanding document [2]
00:51:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/10-wai-wcag-irc#T22-44-07
00:51:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: to gregg and sean andi alex and loretta : find sufficient techniques and plug in authros to create new ones. [3]
00:51:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/10-wai-wcag-irc#T22-45-06
00:51:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: editors to implement motion o make the examples look better [4]
00:51:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/10-wai-wcag-irc#T00-28-11