IRC log of wai-wcag on 2007-05-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:31:52 [RRSAgent]
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19:31:52 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/05/10-wai-wcag-irc
19:31:57 [Ben]
RRSAgent, do not start a new log
19:32:03 [Ben]
RRSAgent, make log world
19:32:09 [Ben]
zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
19:32:09 [Zakim]
ok, Ben; I see WAI_WCAG()3:00PM scheduled to start 32 minutes ago
19:32:15 [Ben]
Meeting: WCAG Weekly Telecon
19:32:26 [Ben]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2007AprJun/0110.html
19:32:33 [Ben]
Chair: Gregg_Vanderheiden, Loretta_Guarino_Reid
19:32:42 [Ben]
ScribeOptions: -scribeOnly
19:33:44 [Ben]
Regrets: Cynthia_Shelly, Sofia_Celic, David_MacDonald, Don_Evans
19:33:57 [Ben]
agenda+ Announcements, Questions, and Updates
19:34:06 [Ben]
agenda+ 2.) Failures from 03 May (first 3)
19:34:15 [Ben]
agenda+ Misc Survey for 07 May 2007
19:34:25 [Ben]
agenda+ Misc Questions for 10 May 2007 (Alternate Versions, def. of UI Component
19:34:25 [Ben]
and "competitive gaming")
19:34:33 [Ben]
agenda+ Failures cleanup and relative luminance def for 10 May
19:34:39 [Christophe]
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agenda+ Understanding Conformance Documents for 10 May 2007
19:34:51 [Ben]
agenda+ Approve stabilization draft
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WAI_WCAG()3:00PM has now started
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+??P0
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+Drew_LaHart
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+??P2
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+Bruce_Bailey
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+??P4
20:00:42 [Makoto]
zakim, ??P4 is Makoto_Ueki
20:00:42 [Zakim]
+Makoto_Ueki; got it
20:01:53 [Gregg]
zakim: mute ??P2
20:01:59 [Zakim]
+ +7.971.aaaa
20:02:28 [Gregg]
zakim, mute ??P2
20:02:28 [Zakim]
??P2 should now be muted
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20:02:43 [Gregg]
ack ??p2
20:02:57 [Zakim]
+Andi_Snow_Weaver
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+Christophe_Strobbe
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Andi has joined #wai-wcag
20:03:27 [Gregg]
zakim, ??P2 is Katie HS
20:03:27 [Zakim]
I don't understand '??P2 is Katie HS', Gregg
20:03:37 [Zakim]
+Alex_Li
20:03:56 [judy]
judy has joined #wai-wcag
20:04:01 [Gregg]
zakim, ??P2 is KatieHS
20:04:01 [Zakim]
+KatieHS; got it
20:04:16 [Zakim]
+Judy
20:04:19 [Gregg]
zakim, who is here
20:04:19 [Zakim]
Gregg, you need to end that query with '?'
20:04:22 [Andi]
zakim, who is on the phone?
20:04:22 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P0, Drew_LaHart, KatieHS, Bruce_Bailey, Makoto_Ueki, +7.971.aaaa, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Christophe_Strobbe, Alex_Li, Judy
20:04:31 [Loretta]
any skype users there? How do I enter the conference code?
20:04:46 [Gregg]
zakim, 7.971.aaaa is SEAN
20:04:46 [Zakim]
sorry, Gregg, I do not recognize a party named '7.971.aaaa'
20:05:26 [Gregg]
zakim, +7.971.aaaa is SEAN
20:05:26 [Zakim]
+SEAN; got it
20:06:46 [Gregg]
zakim, scribe: Sean
20:06:46 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'scribe: Sean', Gregg
20:06:52 [Ben]
Ben has joined #wai-wcag
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Drew has joined #wai-wcag
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scribe: Sean
20:07:22 [Ben]
zakim, who is on the phone?
20:07:22 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P0, Drew_LaHart, KatieHS, Bruce_Bailey, Makoto_Ueki, SEAN, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Christophe_Strobbe, Alex_Li, Judy
20:07:38 [Ben]
zakim, ??P0 is Gregg_and_Ben
20:07:38 [Zakim]
+Gregg_and_Ben; got it
20:09:23 [Ben]
agenda?
20:09:29 [Ben]
zakim, take up agendum 1
20:09:33 [Ben]
RRSAgent, pointer?
20:09:33 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2007/05/10-wai-wcag-irc#T20-09-33
20:09:42 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Announcements, Questions, and Updates" taken up [from Ben]
20:09:43 [Zakim]
-Judy
20:10:04 [Zakim]
+Judy
20:10:21 [Ben]
zakim, who is on the phone?
20:10:21 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Gregg_and_Ben, Drew_LaHart, KatieHS, Bruce_Bailey, Makoto_Ueki, SEAN, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Christophe_Strobbe, Alex_Li, Judy
20:11:08 [Zakim]
+??P10
20:11:27 [Ben]
zakim, ??P10 is Loretta
20:11:27 [Zakim]
+Loretta; got it
20:12:37 [Ben]
zakim, take up agendum 1
20:12:37 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Announcements, Questions, and Updates" taken up [from Ben]
20:12:47 [judy]
q+
20:17:27 [Sean]
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20:17:48 [Ben]
scribe: Ben
20:18:35 [Ben]
Resolution: chairs and staff contact will prepare summary of responses and invitation of comment and post anything to survey only if something is not a direct reflection of previous decisions
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Interview with Judy Brewer on WCAG available - http://www.webstandards.org/learn/articles/askw3c/may2007/
20:20:41 [Ben]
zakim, close this item
20:20:41 [Zakim]
I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Ben
20:20:45 [Ben]
ack judy
20:20:49 [Ben]
zakim, close this item
20:20:49 [Zakim]
agendum 1 closed
20:20:50 [Zakim]
I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
20:20:50 [Sean]
I think so
20:20:51 [Zakim]
2. 2.) Failures from 03 May (first 3) [from Ben]
20:20:54 [Ben]
zakim, take up agendum 2
20:20:54 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "2.) Failures from 03 May (first 3)" taken up [from Ben]
20:21:20 [Ben]
Topic: Failure of 4.1.1 due to incorrect use of start and end tags or attribute markup
20:21:28 [Sean]
topic: Failure of 4.1.1 due to incorrect use of start and end tags or attribute markup
20:21:35 [Ben]
scribe Sean
20:21:39 [Ben]
scribe: Sean
20:25:02 [Sean]
action:sean to take cynthia's examples and create failures
20:28:51 [Gregg]
ack b
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+Tim_Boland
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20:33:22 [Sean]
accepted Failure of 4.1.1 due to incorrect use of start and end tags or attribute markup as ammended
20:33:42 [Sean]
topic Failure of SC 1.1.1 due to using look-alike glyphs to represent text without providing a text alternative
20:39:12 [Sean]
accepted Failure of SC 1.1.1 due to using look-alike glyphs to represent text without providing a text alternative as amended
20:39:27 [Sean]
topic Failure of SC 1.1.1 due to using ASCII art without providing a text alternative
20:42:48 [Zakim]
+Michael_Cooper
20:43:24 [Sean]
accepted Failure of SC 1.1.1 due to using ASCII art without providing a text alternative as amended
20:43:41 [Ben]
zakim, close this item
20:43:41 [Zakim]
agendum 2 closed
20:43:42 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
20:43:43 [Zakim]
3. Misc Survey for 07 May 2007 [from Ben]
20:43:46 [Ben]
zakim, take up agendum 3
20:43:46 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Misc Survey for 07 May 2007" taken up [from Ben]
20:45:03 [Sean]
accept items e LC-921, 922, 1413: Proposed changes to 2.1.1 and 2.1.2, LC-1027, 1243, LC-483, LC-1048, Controlling Volume, LC-849, LC-580, LC-850, LC-627, G21: as unanimous
20:46:01 [Sean]
topic:Remove "pictures" from GL 1.1
20:46:28 [Sean]
accept Remove "pictures" from GL 1.1 as unanimous
20:50:36 [Sean]
toppic LC-850: updated response
20:55:32 [Gregg]
/me
20:55:32 [Gregg]
Is not incorrect HTML markup – but it would not constitute alternate text and would not be sufficient for use as a text alternative. If the Alt text were empty it would be stating that the image was decorative and did not need alternate text. Technically,
21:00:29 [Sean]
accept LC-850: updated response as amended
21:01:06 [Ben]
zakim, close this item
21:01:06 [Zakim]
agendum 3 closed
21:01:07 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
21:01:08 [Zakim]
4. Misc Questions for 10 May 2007 (Alternate Versions, def. of UI Component [from Ben]
21:01:26 [Ben]
zakim, take up agendum 4
21:01:26 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Misc Questions for 10 May 2007 (Alternate Versions, def. of UI Component" taken up [from Ben]
21:02:22 [Sean]
topic: Alternate Versions
21:04:43 [Ben]
zakim, who is making noise?
21:04:46 [judy]
zakim, who's making noise?
21:04:56 [Zakim]
Ben, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: KatieHS (49%), Andi_Snow_Weaver (36%), Loretta (18%)
21:05:07 [Zakim]
judy, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: KatieHS (9%), Judy (9%)
21:05:43 [judy]
q+
21:08:50 [Loretta]
q+
21:08:57 [Loretta]
ack j
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q-
21:12:01 [Sean]
+q
21:13:13 [Andi]
q+
21:13:16 [Gregg]
ack s
21:14:53 [Gregg]
ack a
21:17:37 [Gregg]
ack a
21:20:57 [Loretta]
q+
21:25:40 [Loretta]
ack l
21:27:31 [Loretta]
q+
21:27:43 [Sean]
q+
21:29:31 [Gregg]
ack l
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ack s
21:30:59 [Andi]
q+
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Sean2 has joined #wai-wcag
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scribe: Sean2
21:34:57 [judy]
q+
21:35:19 [Gregg]
ack a
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MichaelC has joined #wai-wcag
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ack j
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q+
21:35:52 [Zakim]
+Cooper
21:36:04 [Zakim]
-Michael_Cooper
21:36:36 [Loretta]
q
21:36:41 [Loretta]
q+
21:38:21 [Gregg]
ack b
21:38:28 [Gregg]
akc g
21:38:30 [Gregg]
ack g
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ack l
21:39:01 [Andi]
q+
21:40:43 [Gregg]
ack a
21:41:51 [Loretta]
q+
21:43:14 [Gregg]
Q+
21:45:35 [Gregg]
ack l
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ack g
21:45:45 [Gregg]
ack b
21:48:22 [Sean2]
q+
21:50:28 [Andi]
q+
21:50:49 [Gregg]
ack sean
21:51:38 [Loretta]
q+
21:51:46 [Gregg]
q+
21:51:56 [Gregg]
ack a
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ack l
21:55:52 [Loretta]
q+
21:58:38 [Gregg]
ack g
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ack l
22:00:10 [judy]
q+
22:00:19 [Loretta]
q+
22:02:43 [Gregg]
ack j
22:03:01 [Zakim]
-Christophe_Strobbe
22:03:37 [Gregg]
ack l
22:03:43 [Andi]
q+
22:04:04 [Zakim]
+Christophe_Strobbe
22:04:42 [Gregg]
Q+
22:05:07 [Loretta]
ack a
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ack g
22:08:49 [Gregg]
q+
22:11:11 [Andi]
q+
22:11:18 [Loretta]
ack g
22:11:52 [Gregg]
Q+
22:12:01 [Loretta]
ack a
22:12:17 [Ben]
q+
22:12:41 [Loretta]
ack g
22:13:44 [MichaelC]
q+ to ask if technique to find alt versions can work outside of custom HTTP headers, which you can't set if you can't control server
22:14:08 [Sean2]
+q
22:14:35 [Loretta]
ack b
22:15:18 [MichaelC]
ack me
22:15:18 [Zakim]
MichaelC, you wanted to ask if technique to find alt versions can work outside of custom HTTP headers, which you can't set if you can't control server
22:15:18 [Loretta]
ack m
22:16:47 [Loretta]
ack s
22:22:24 [judy]
q+
22:22:37 [Sean]
Sean has joined #wai-wcag
22:22:52 [Ben]
scribe: Sean
22:23:11 [Loretta]
q+
22:23:23 [Loretta]
ack ju
22:24:38 [Zakim]
-Judy
22:25:05 [Zakim]
-Christophe_Strobbe
22:25:57 [Zakim]
-Tim_Boland
22:28:17 [Sean]
q+ the resolution is keep with current text, with editorial about the "at risk" techniques based on whether there are sufficient techniques find the conformat from the non conformat
22:35:30 [Sean]
resolution is keep with current text, with editorial about the "at risk" techniques based on whether there are sufficient techniques find the conformat from the non conformat
22:36:27 [Sean]
RESOLUTON: is keep with current text, with editorial about the "at risk" techniques based on whether there are sufficient techniques find the conformat from the non conformat
22:37:37 [Sean]
action to gregg and sean andi alex and loretta : find sufficient techniques and plug in authros to create new ones.
22:39:58 [Sean]
topic Remove "competitive gaming or" from 2.2.1
22:41:27 [Loretta]
q+
22:42:56 [Loretta]
q-
22:43:37 [Sean]
reesolution: Remove "competitive gaming or" from 2.2.1
22:44:07 [Sean]
action: gregg and brusce to come up with text for the understanding document
22:44:30 [Sean]
RESOLUTON: Remove "competitive gaming or" from 2.2.1
22:45:06 [Sean]
action: to gregg and sean andi alex and loretta : find sufficient techniques and plug in authros to create new ones.
22:46:07 [Sean]
topic 912: User interface component
22:47:06 [Sean]
adopt 912: User interface component as amended
22:47:08 [Ben]
zakim, close this item
22:47:08 [Zakim]
agendum 4 closed
22:47:10 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:47:11 [Zakim]
5. Failures cleanup and relative luminance def for 10 May [from Ben]
22:47:12 [Ben]
zakim, take up agendum 5
22:47:12 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Failures cleanup and relative luminance def for 10 May" taken up [from Ben]
22:48:16 [Sean]
topic 1080: Link underlines
22:56:11 [Zakim]
-Drew_LaHart
23:03:21 [Sean]
adopt topic 1080: Link underlines as amended
23:04:02 [Sean]
topic Failure of SC 1.2.1 by not associating a multimedia alternative with its associated text
23:09:12 [Sean]
adopt Failure of SC 1.2.1 by not associating a multimedia alternative with its associated text as amended
23:13:45 [Sean]
adopt Relative Luminance Definition as amended
23:14:07 [Ben]
zakim, close this item
23:14:07 [Zakim]
agendum 5 closed
23:14:08 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
23:14:09 [Zakim]
6. Understanding Conformance Documents for 10 May 2007 [from Ben]
23:14:12 [Ben]
zakim, take up agendum 6
23:14:12 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "Understanding Conformance Documents for 10 May 2007" taken up [from Ben]
23:14:26 [Sean]
topic What does conformance mean? (section)
23:18:13 [Sean]
adopt What does conformance mean? (section) as amended
23:18:41 [Sean]
topic Understanding Accessibility Support (section)
23:25:36 [Sean]
motion: Sean's edit "This means that either the technology implements and tests the accessibility [#apidef APIs] that are required in order for the users' assistive technology to make the technology accessible or..." accepted.
23:28:14 [Zakim]
-Gregg_and_Ben
23:31:56 [Sean]
adopt Understanding Accessibility Support (section) as amended
23:36:05 [Zakim]
+Katie_Haritos-Shea
23:39:20 [Sean]
motion: "add 'and use' to conformance section" - adopted
23:39:52 [Sean]
adopt Understanding Documented lists of Web technologies with Accessibility Support (section) as amended
23:40:07 [Sean]
topic Understanding Conformance Requirements (section)
23:52:04 [Zakim]
-Bruce_Bailey
23:54:49 [Zakim]
-Alex_Li
23:55:14 [Zakim]
+Alex_Li
23:56:51 [Sean]
motion: change guidelines conformance 6.3 to read "The content continues to meet the conformance requirements when the (non accessibility-supported) technology is turned on, turned off, or is not supported by a user agent." - adopted
00:01:50 [Zakim]
-SEAN
00:03:06 [Sean]
01179719362
00:03:50 [Zakim]
-Katie_Haritos-Shea
00:04:49 [Gregg]
Sean can you give me that number again?
00:04:54 [Sean]
sorry, my phone seems to have gobe bananas, try 0117 971 9730
00:11:25 [Sean]
motion: make the note in #4 part of the main text - adopted
00:12:03 [Sean]
s/main text/main text of conformance requirement #4/
00:19:00 [Gregg]
/me Technologies that are not accessibility supported can be used, or technologies that are accessibility supported can be used in a non conforming manner, as long as all the information is also available using technologies that are accessibility supported, in a manner that does conform, and as long as the non-accessibility-supported material does not interfere.
00:20:33 [Sean]
motion change conformance document #6 to add " Non-Interference: If Web technologies that are not accessibility supported are used on a page, or accessibility-supported technologies are used in a non-conforming way, they do not block the ability of the users to access the rest of the page."
00:20:58 [Sean]
change understanding to add note "Technologies that are not accessibility supported can be used, or technologies that are accessibility supported can be used in a non conforming manner, as long as all the information is also available using technologies that are accessibility supported, in a manner that does conform, and as long as the non-accessibility-supported material does not interfere."
00:24:50 [Sean]
accept Understanding Conformance Requirements (section) as amended
00:27:45 [Sean]
motion to empower the editors to make the examples look better - adopted
00:28:11 [Sean]
action: editors to implement motion o make the examples look better
00:28:51 [Sean]
accept Understanding Conformance Claims (section)
00:36:46 [Sean]
motion "accepting current draft for release as stabilisation draft, with the proviso that suitable editorial note for conformance reqt #4 be achieved through successive survey"
00:39:55 [Sean]
adopted the motion
00:39:57 [Ben]
Present: Gregg_Vanderheiden, Ben_Caldwell, Drew_LaHart, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Bruce_Bailey, Makoto_Ueki, Sean_Hayes, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Christophe_Strobbe, Alex_Li, Judy_Brewer, Loretta_Guarino-Reid, Alex_Li, Michael_Cooper
00:40:17 [Ben]
zakim, close this item
00:40:17 [Zakim]
agendum 6 closed
00:40:18 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
00:40:19 [Zakim]
7. Approve stabilization draft [from Ben]
00:41:09 [Sean]
accept " Approve stabilization draft [from Ben]" - adopted
00:44:45 [Zakim]
-Alex_Li
00:46:26 [Zakim]
-Andi_Snow_Weaver
00:47:26 [Loretta]
I'm frustrated with the time we are spending on this.
00:47:35 [Loretta]
I don't think it is going to be so difficult.
00:47:45 [Loretta]
(I could be wrong!)
00:48:16 [Loretta]
Yes.
00:48:30 [Loretta]
We are too tired to thrashthrough fresh process right now.,
00:49:24 [Loretta]
that seems fine. OUr best effort by Monday night.
00:50:08 [Sean]
motion "editorial note will be best effort as of Monday night" (Boston time) - adoppted
00:50:24 [Loretta]
Bye!
00:50:32 [Zakim]
-Loretta
00:50:41 [Sean]
RESOLUTION: "editorial note will be best effort as of Monday night" (Boston time) - adoppted
00:50:57 [Ben]
zakim, close item 7
00:50:57 [Zakim]
agendum 7, Approve stabilization draft, closed
00:50:58 [Zakim]
I see nothing remaining on the agenda
00:50:59 [Zakim]
-KatieHS
00:51:02 [Zakim]
-Makoto_Ueki
00:51:05 [Zakim]
-Cooper
00:51:07 [Zakim]
WAI_WCAG()3:00PM has ended
00:51:09 [Zakim]
Attendees were Drew_LaHart, Bruce_Bailey, Makoto_Ueki, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Christophe_Strobbe, Alex_Li, KatieHS, Judy, SEAN, Gregg_and_Ben, Loretta, Tim_Boland, Michael_Cooper,
00:51:09 [Sean]
Sean has left #wai-wcag
00:51:11 [Zakim]
... Cooper, Katie_Haritos-Shea
00:51:15 [Ben]
zakim, bye
00:51:15 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #wai-wcag
00:51:19 [Ben]
RRSAgent, bye
00:51:19 [RRSAgent]
I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/10-wai-wcag-actions.rdf :
00:51:19 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: sean to take cynthia's examples and create failures [1]
00:51:19 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/10-wai-wcag-irc#T20-25-02
00:51:19 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: gregg and brusce to come up with text for the understanding document [2]
00:51:19 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/10-wai-wcag-irc#T22-44-07
00:51:19 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: to gregg and sean andi alex and loretta : find sufficient techniques and plug in authros to create new ones. [3]
00:51:19 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/10-wai-wcag-irc#T22-45-06
00:51:19 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: editors to implement motion o make the examples look better [4]
00:51:19 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/10-wai-wcag-irc#T00-28-11