IRC log of rif on 2007-05-01
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:20:04 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #rif
- 14:20:04 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/05/01-rif-irc
- 14:20:11 [ChrisW]
- zakim, this will be rif
- 14:20:11 [Zakim]
- ok, ChrisW; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 40 minutes
- 14:20:38 [ChrisW]
- Meeting: RIF Telecon 1 May 07
- 14:20:47 [ChrisW]
- Chair: Chris Welty
- 14:21:08 [ChrisW]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Apr/0100.html
- 14:21:24 [ChrisW]
- ChrisW has changed the topic to: 1 May RIF Telecon, Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Apr/0100.html
- 14:21:37 [ChrisW]
- agenda+ Admin
- 14:21:45 [ChrisW]
- agenda+ Liason
- 14:21:52 [ChrisW]
- agenda+ F2F
- 14:22:00 [ChrisW]
- agenda+ Technical Design
- 14:22:06 [ChrisW]
- agenda+ UCR
- 14:22:09 [ChrisW]
- agenda+ RIFRAF
- 14:22:13 [ChrisW]
- agenda+ AOB
- 14:22:26 [ChrisW]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 14:22:26 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/05/01-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
- 14:25:50 [ChrisW]
- rrsagent, make logs public
- 14:55:56 [PhilippeB]
- PhilippeB has joined #rif
- 14:56:40 [Zakim]
- SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
- 14:56:43 [PhilippeB]
- Zkim, mute me
- 14:56:48 [Zakim]
- + +33.1.60.47.aaaa
- 14:56:54 [PhilippeB]
- Zakim, mute me
- 14:56:54 [Zakim]
- sorry, PhilippeB, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
- 14:57:06 [Zakim]
- +Philippe_Bonnard (was +33.1.60.47.aaaa)
- 14:57:14 [PhilippeB]
- Zakim, mut me
- 14:57:14 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'mut me', PhilippeB
- 14:57:20 [PhilippeB]
- Zakim, mute me
- 14:57:20 [Zakim]
- sorry, PhilippeB, muting is not permitted when only one person is present
- 14:58:02 [Harold]
- Harold has joined #rif
- 14:58:39 [josb]
- josb has joined #rif
- 14:58:53 [Zakim]
- +[NRCC]
- 14:59:18 [Harold]
- Zakim, [NRCC] is me
- 14:59:18 [Zakim]
- +Harold; got it
- 14:59:46 [PaulVincent]
- PaulVincent has joined #rif
- 15:00:07 [DaveReynolds]
- DaveReynolds has joined #rif
- 15:00:33 [Zakim]
- +??P10
- 15:00:41 [Zakim]
- +??P14
- 15:00:43 [Zakim]
- + +39.047.101.aabb
- 15:00:44 [Zakim]
- +Dave_Reynolds (was ??P14)
- 15:00:57 [Zakim]
- -Dave_Reynolds
- 15:01:23 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- LeoraMorgenstern has joined #rif
- 15:01:26 [Deborah_Nichols]
- Deborah_Nichols has joined #rif
- 15:01:35 [Zakim]
- +??P15
- 15:01:42 [Zakim]
- +Dave_Reynolds (was ??P15)
- 15:01:47 [Zakim]
- +ChrisW
- 15:02:02 [ChrisW]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 15:02:02 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Philippe_Bonnard, Harold, ??P10, josb (muted), Dave_Reynolds, ChrisW
- 15:02:21 [Zakim]
- +Deborah_Nichols
- 15:02:25 [Zakim]
- +Leora_Morgenstern
- 15:02:30 [StellaMitchell]
- StellaMitchell has joined #rif
- 15:02:48 [Zakim]
- -ChrisW
- 15:03:50 [Zakim]
- +[IBM]
- 15:03:57 [Zakim]
- +ChrisW
- 15:04:09 [StellaMitchell]
- zakim, [ibm] is temporarily StellaMitchell
- 15:04:10 [Zakim]
- +StellaMitchell; got it
- 15:04:27 [ChrisW]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 15:04:27 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Philippe_Bonnard, Harold, PaulVincent, josb (muted), Dave_Reynolds, Deborah_Nichols (muted), Leora_Morgenstern, StellaMitchell, ChrisW
- 15:05:01 [Allen]
- Allen has joined #rif
- 15:05:43 [csma]
- csma has joined #rif
- 15:05:44 [Zakim]
- +Sandro
- 15:05:58 [PhilippeB]
- Zakim, mute me
- 15:05:58 [Zakim]
- Philippe_Bonnard should now be muted
- 15:06:22 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- I'll volunteer, while I still remembver zakim commands
- 15:06:24 [Zakim]
- +Allen_Ginsberg
- 15:06:37 [ChrisW]
- Scribe: Leora Morgenstern
- 15:06:46 [ChrisW]
- scribenick: LeoraMorgenstern
- 15:06:56 [ChrisW]
- zakim, next item
- 15:06:56 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "Admin" taken up [from ChrisW]
- 15:07:16 [Allen]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:07:16 [Zakim]
- Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
- 15:08:28 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- sandro: when will we have the demo?
- 15:08:48 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Sandro: it seems we don't want to push it off to the end of the meeting.
- 15:08:54 [Zakim]
- +Christian
- 15:08:54 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- RESO
- 15:08:55 [ChrisW]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Apr/0059.html
- 15:09:07 [csma]
- zakim, christian is me
- 15:09:07 [Zakim]
- +csma; got it
- 15:09:14 [csma]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:09:14 [Zakim]
- csma should now be muted
- 15:09:20 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- RESOLVED: accept minutes of April 17 meeting
- 15:09:28 [ChrisW]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Apr/0084.html
- 15:09:34 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- APPROVED: accept minutes of April 17 meeting
- 15:09:45 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- RESOLVED: accept minutes of April 24 meeting
- 15:09:54 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- APPROVED: accept minutes of April 24 meeting
- 15:10:09 [Zakim]
- -Leora_Morgenstern
- 15:10:12 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- got off will call in again
- 15:10:24 [ChrisW]
- zakim, next item
- 15:10:24 [Zakim]
- agendum 2. "Liason" taken up [from ChrisW]
- 15:10:38 [Zakim]
- +Leora_Morgenstern
- 15:10:41 [ChrisW]
- zakim, close item 2
- 15:10:41 [Zakim]
- agendum 2, Liason, closed
- 15:10:45 [Zakim]
- I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 15:10:47 [Zakim]
- 3. F2F [from ChrisW]
- 15:10:48 [StellaMitchell]
- chris: any liason reports? ... (none)
- 15:10:48 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- zakim, next item
- 15:10:52 [Zakim]
- agendum 3. "F2F" taken up [from ChrisW]
- 15:10:57 [ChrisW]
- zakim, next item
- 15:10:57 [Zakim]
- agendum 3 was just opened, ChrisW
- 15:11:09 [josb]
- yes
- 15:11:15 [josb]
- I did not check yet
- 15:11:18 [csma]
- I did
- 15:11:19 [josb]
- I filled it in myself :-)
- 15:11:32 [johnhall]
- johnhall has joined #rif
- 15:11:42 [josb]
- anyway, people will have some time
- 15:12:08 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- chris: Any new information on the F2F?
- 15:12:26 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Jos: room has been booked, technical needs are taken care of (mikes, phones, etc.)
- 15:12:28 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 15:12:42 [johnhall]
- zakim, IPcaller is me
- 15:12:42 [Zakim]
- +johnhall; got it
- 15:12:45 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- josb: People should book hotels as soon as possible, because choice is already starting to get limited
- 15:12:50 [johnhall]
- ZAkim, mute me
- 15:12:50 [Zakim]
- johnhall should now be muted
- 15:13:01 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Chris: why the 3 hotels listed on the wiki page?
- 15:13:17 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- josb: Took one hotel from each of three price categories: each is reasonably near the bus stop.
- 15:13:26 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- josb: However, any hotel on the list would be reasonable.
- 15:13:43 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Chris: How many people have answered the questionnaire?
- 15:13:59 [DaveReynolds]
- http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/38457/f2f6reg/
- 15:14:48 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Chris: 15 people have responded.
- 15:15:06 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Chris: please fill out the form, whether or not you're attending. Need to plan for the meals, etc.
- 15:15:19 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- zakim, next item
- 15:15:19 [Zakim]
- agendum 4. "Technical Design" taken up [from ChrisW]
- 15:15:26 [PhilippeB]
- q+
- 15:15:34 [ChrisW]
- ack phil
- 15:15:34 [csma]
- ack phili
- 15:15:52 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Chris: Philippe will be giving a demo.
- 15:16:01 [PhilippeB]
- Conference ID 5792048
- 15:16:36 [sandro]
- thttp://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/38457/f2f6reg/
- 15:16:41 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Chris: We'll try using the demo using the raindance conferencing software.
- 15:16:46 [PhilippeB]
- http://ilog.on.raindance.com
- 15:17:37 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Chris: If you've already installed raindance, all you need to do is log in with the conference no Philippe provided above.
- 15:18:04 [Deborah_Nichols]
- I am - Deborah
- 15:18:07 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- yes, I am
- 15:19:37 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Philippe: We'll have a demo of POC showing RIF core enabling interchange between XXX and YYY (get)
- 15:20:18 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Philippe: in order to test the core of RIF and the extensibility (.. didn't hear, get)
- 15:20:34 [josb]
- don't wait for me
- 15:21:21 [csma]
- zakim, unmute me
- 15:21:21 [Zakim]
- csma should no longer be muted
- 15:21:27 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- s/XXX/JBoss/
- 15:21:30 [csma]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:21:30 [Zakim]
- csma should now be muted
- 15:21:36 [Zakim]
- -Sandro
- 15:21:47 [Zakim]
- +Sandro
- 15:22:02 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- s/YYY/ILog/
- 15:23:17 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Philippe first presented slides showing the POC architecture.
- 15:24:05 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Philippe, will you be posting the slides somewhere on the web, so we can reference them?
- 15:24:27 [csma]
- zakim, unmute me
- 15:24:27 [Zakim]
- csma should no longer be muted
- 15:24:36 [csma]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:24:36 [Zakim]
- csma should now be muted
- 15:24:42 [csma]
- q+
- 15:25:24 [csma]
- q-
- 15:25:49 [Zakim]
- +Gary_Hallmark
- 15:26:00 [ChrisW]
- gary, we are in a demo
- 15:26:05 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Philippe: Table containing translations from production rules concepts to RIF concepts
- 15:27:08 [GaryHallmark]
- GaryHallmark has joined #rif
- 15:27:25 [csma]
- zakim, unmute me
- 15:27:25 [Zakim]
- csma should no longer be muted
- 15:27:39 [csma]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:27:39 [Zakim]
- csma should now be muted
- 15:30:30 [csma]
- zakim, unmute me
- 15:30:30 [Zakim]
- csma should no longer be muted
- 15:30:52 [GaryHallmark]
- is there a raindance conf id?
- 15:31:27 [csma]
- 5792048
- 15:31:28 [DaveReynolds]
- I've just been kicked off the Raindance conf
- 15:32:02 [csma]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:32:02 [Zakim]
- csma should now be muted
- 15:32:43 [sandro]
- Can we see the web page directly, or do we have to only see it like this, through the screen-broadcaster?
- 15:33:14 [sandro]
- (If I have a password to MISMO's site, I don't know about it.)
- 15:33:28 [Allen]
- what is "<constaints>?
- 15:33:32 [csma]
- Sandro, are you on the Mismo wiki?
- 15:33:44 [sandro]
- No, I don't know the password to the MISMO wiki.
- 15:33:47 [csma]
- you do not need a password: you set it yourself
- 15:34:12 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Philippe: examples of production rules, followed by translation of rule into xml document,, followed by ...
- 15:34:26 [csma]
- if you are not registered, you register yourself by giving an loggin ID and a password
- 15:34:43 [ChrisW]
- daver, did you get back on?
- 15:34:52 [ChrisW]
- the conf shows you in
- 15:35:05 [DaveReynolds]
- Yes, I had to kill the client and restart
- 15:35:43 [sandro]
- Okay, finally got on to the mismo site
- 15:35:58 [sandro]
- -> http://wiki.mismo.org/MISMOWiki/Wiki.jsp?page=ProofOfConcept MISMO Wiki page being presented by Philippe
- 15:36:27 [sandro]
- (free site registration required)
- 15:37:42 [DaveReynolds]
- (Requires acceptance of MISMO License terms IPR rules on behalf of employer)
- 15:38:43 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- I can't log in to Mismo page --- don't know if IBM would have a problem with the licensing issues: chris, are you logged in?
- 15:39:04 [Deborah_Nichols]
- I have it just now, too
- 15:39:10 [csma]
- Caveat: this is not supposed to be a public wiki. Let us use it for convenience during the demo, but we should as Philippe to copy the relevant info on the RIF wiki...
- 15:40:58 [Hassan]
- Hassan has joined #rif
- 15:41:23 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- <will supply later: a summary of Philippe's presentation, once I've gone through the mismo wiki. Can't hear or see much now.>
- 15:42:06 [Zakim]
- -csma
- 15:42:26 [ChrisW]
- ok
- 15:43:06 [Zakim]
- +csma
- 15:44:31 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Philippe: showed ideas for round-tripping between ilog and jboss.
- 15:45:04 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Philippe: that is, went from ilog to meta-model, then back to ilog.
- 15:45:37 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Philippe: more comprehensive roundtripping: go from ilog to xml and back to ilog.
- 15:45:45 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- (??, check)
- 15:46:05 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- q+
- 15:47:02 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Philippe: can map xml expressions to metamodel and vice versa.
- 15:48:01 [csma]
- q+
- 15:48:32 [csma]
- ack leora
- 15:49:00 [PaulVincent]
- Congrats to Philippe and the ILOG / JBoss team for an excellent practical RIF demo!!!
- 15:49:05 [csma]
- ack csma
- 15:49:25 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Philippe: By the end of May, at the next meeting, the aim is to have a complete back-and-forth translation of the JBoss and ILog rules engines.
- 15:49:27 [sandro]
- zakim, who is muted?
- 15:49:27 [Zakim]
- I see josb, Deborah_Nichols, Allen_Ginsberg, johnhall muted
- 15:49:36 [PhilippeB]
- Zakim, mute me
- 15:49:36 [Zakim]
- Philippe_Bonnard should now be muted
- 15:49:39 [csma]
- For some reasons you do not seem to hear me :-(
- 15:49:46 [csma]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:49:46 [Zakim]
- csma should now be muted
- 15:49:51 [csma]
- Yes
- 15:49:56 [ChrisW]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 15:49:56 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Philippe_Bonnard (muted), Harold, PaulVincent, josb (muted), Dave_Reynolds, Deborah_Nichols (muted), StellaMitchell, ChrisW, Allen_Ginsberg (muted),
- 15:49:59 [Zakim]
- ... Leora_Morgenstern, johnhall (muted), Sandro, Gary_Hallmark, csma (muted)
- 15:50:01 [csma]
- but apparently I cannot speak
- 15:50:22 [csma]
- Philippe, why the getters?
- 15:50:38 [csma]
- ok
- 15:50:38 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- zakim, next item
- 15:50:38 [Zakim]
- agendum 5. "UCR" taken up [from ChrisW]
- 15:51:11 [Harold]
- Philippe, what would be the (update) semantics of the setters?
- 15:51:36 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- TOPIC: Issue 25:
- 15:51:46 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Issue 25: RDF and RIF Core
- 15:52:00 [PhilippeB]
- Harold, In fact, we change the state of the object and we n otify it to the rule engine.
- 15:52:43 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Chris: Somd discussion in email of RDF in Core, most of which has centered around b-nodes.
- 15:52:51 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Sandro: Jos proposed 3 options:
- 15:53:17 [josb]
- yes
- 15:53:17 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Sandro: 1. Tell people who want to use b-nodes to map to closest thing they can find in RIF. Essentially that's skolemizing.
- 15:53:22 [csma]
- Harold, could you re-ask by email your question about what are the constraints in Philippe's aprocrif, lest we forget to have that discussion?
- 15:53:26 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Sandro. This is the favorite optionof Sandro and Jos.
- 15:53:28 [csma]
- I will ask mine about getters...
- 15:53:44 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Jos: 2nd option: allowing facts with existential variables.
- 15:54:19 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Jos. 3rd option: modularized approach, like in DLLog (??)
- 15:54:32 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Jos: but not clear for production rules how this would be done
- 15:54:45 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Jos: and semantic implications for extensions, e.g., with negation are not clear.
- 15:55:09 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Jos. negation over rule preeicates different than over DL predicates;
- 15:55:18 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Jos: negation as failure vs. classical negation
- 15:55:48 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Jos: 2nd option has problem with extensions that can't account for existential operators, including extensions with negation and with production rules.
- 15:56:04 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Chris: in the first option, b-nodes are replaced with skolem constants.
- 15:57:24 [csma]
- Would taht mean no bnodes in Core?
- 15:57:42 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Chris: in the second option, allowing facts with existentially quantified variables, skolemization happens ..
- 15:57:46 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- (check)
- 15:58:34 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Chris: possible to have a quantifier that scopes the b-node, so that skolemization would replace it with function containing quantified variables contained therein?
- 15:59:03 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Jos: depends if you allow rules or facts. Facts: that situation wouldn't happen.
- 16:00:01 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Sandro: third option, skolem constants sufficient
- 16:01:27 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Sandro and Jos: discussion about when skolem constants would be sufficient, when skolem functions are needed.
- 16:01:51 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Depends on what happens as rules are fired
- 16:02:28 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Chris: Jos is saying that the idea of going with skolem constants to replace b-nodes only works when rjules languages support published b-node smeantics.
- 16:02:41 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Chris: is this an example of a rules language that doens't support the b-node semantics?
- 16:03:03 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Sandro: doesn't see problems
- 16:03:33 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Dhris: Sandro is saying that rules language that supports gneerating new symbol for each rule firing would know to put in function rather than constant.
- 16:04:00 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Jos: but what if rule fires twice -with new variable biniding?
- 16:04:18 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Jos: vs. rules firing twice, but keeping the same variable binding.
- 16:04:37 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Sandro: this is very much a production rule issue.
- 16:06:05 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Jos: nothing will prevent people from exchanging RDF graphs; RDF already has a semantics for exchange
- 16:06:25 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Jos: leans toward option 1, skolenmiazation during translation
- 16:06:28 [csma]
- In the current core, an ANDCONDITION can be an existential
- 16:06:32 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Sandro: same as Jos
- 16:07:06 [sandro]
- q?
- 16:07:46 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Dave: RIF is supposed to be able to use RDF as data model.
- 16:08:13 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Dave: point of being able to do all these things, including b-nodes, is to be able to translate the triples.
- 16:08:26 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Dave: Need RDF in both head and body of rule.
- 16:08:53 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Jos: But if embed RDF as set of facts, can make usual RIF rules that quantify ove rfacts, or data in facts. So RDF data gets used by default.
- 16:09:19 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Jos: even though syntactically, we might want to allow people to write things that look like RdF triples in head and body.
- 16:09:36 [sandro]
- -1 mirroring SPARQL
- 16:09:45 [sandro]
- -1 mirroring SPARQL's treatment of b-nodes
- 16:09:51 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Harold: SPARQL has dealt with b-nodes --- can we use similar treatment to Sparql's treament?
- 16:10:17 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Dave: not following Jos's suggestion.
- 16:10:23 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Chris: I think we're all in agreement.
- 16:10:45 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Chris: RDF graph translated into RIF rules language
- 16:10:52 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Chris: RDF rules get translated into RIF core.
- 16:10:56 [josb]
- yes
- 16:11:13 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- (missing above, how does RDF graph get translated into RIF rules language .. missing end of chris's sentence.)
- 16:11:21 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Chris: Michael not here.
- 16:11:33 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Harold: not sure if Michael agrees or disagrees.
- 16:11:42 [josb]
- ok
- 16:11:44 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Sandro: Jos should propose text to go into the document regarding this issue.
- 16:12:33 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Sandro: Jos should just put the text into the wiki?
- 16:12:37 [DaveReynolds]
- +1 to putting in email
- 16:12:42 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Chris: No, Jos should put the text into email.
- 16:13:20 [ChrisW]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Apr/0042.html
- 16:13:26 [sandro]
- ACTION: JosDeBruijn to propose text in e-mail for changes to RIF Core, encompassing the "just Skolemize" approach to handling b-nodes
- 16:13:26 [rifbot]
- Sorry, couldn't find user - JosDeBruijn
- 16:13:36 [sandro]
- ACTION: Jos_De_B to propose text in e-mail for changes to RIF Core, encompassing the "just Skolemize" approach to handling b-nodes
- 16:13:36 [rifbot]
- Sorry, couldn't find user - Jos_De_B
- 16:13:50 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Topic: Issue 31: Disjoint names (predicates, individuals)
- 16:14:01 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Chris: Dave had sent email on the topic, April 18
- 16:14:31 [sandro]
- ACTION: Jos_de to propose text in e-mail for changes to RIF Core, encompassing the "just Skolemize" approach to handling b-nodes
- 16:14:31 [rifbot]
- Sorry, couldn't find user - Jos_de
- 16:14:33 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Dave: in email, tried to characterize 3 main options and give examples/test case, showing difference between these three.
- 16:14:41 [sandro]
- ACTION: Jos de B to propose text in e-mail for changes to RIF Core, encompassing the "just Skolemize" approach to handling b-nodes
- 16:14:41 [rifbot]
- Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Jos
- 16:14:41 [rifbot]
- Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jdebruij, jderoo)
- 16:14:55 [sandro]
- ACTION: jdebruij to propose text in e-mail for changes to RIF Core, encompassing the "just Skolemize" approach to handling b-nodes
- 16:14:56 [rifbot]
- Created ACTION-285 - to propose text in e-mail for changes to RIF Core, encompassing the \"just Skolemize\" approach to handling b-nodes [on Jos de Bruijn - due 2007-05-08].
- 16:15:37 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Dave: used examples where P and Q were both individuals and predicates; see how the 3 options (overlapping sort,s, punning) worked out.
- 16:16:58 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Dave: DS --> DS no work
- 16:17:08 [AxelPolleres]
- AxelPolleres has joined #rif
- 16:17:24 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Dave: ONDS --> ONDS, needw new names to distinguish between P as indiv., p as Pred, but otherwise okay.
- 16:17:37 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Dave: same with pUnning to ONDS
- 16:18:03 [Zakim]
- +??P14
- 16:18:35 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Dave: hard case comes when there's overlapping sorts translating to overlapping sorts. (Check against the email.)
- 16:19:14 [josb]
- for core I prefer DS
- 16:19:20 [sandro]
- Dave: Argument for DS --- it makes translating from RIF into any mode easy.
- 16:19:44 [josb]
- OS is not compatible with OWL DL!
- 16:20:01 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Chris: But despite the ease, no one seemed to support the view.
- 16:20:10 [Zakim]
- -csma
- 16:20:15 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Sandro: we don't understand the issues well enough to pick sides yet.
- 16:20:16 [DaveReynolds]
- josb: sorry, yes I meant OWL/full of course
- 16:20:16 [csma]
- csma has left #rif
- 16:20:23 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Chris: So it's still on the table.
- 16:22:02 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- s/pUnning/ONDS/
- 16:22:48 [Zakim]
- -Harold
- 16:23:01 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Dave: DS could be called no aliasing
- 16:23:10 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Chris: or, no overloading
- 16:23:48 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Dave: analogy in programming languages: difference between static and dynamic typing.
- 16:24:31 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Dave: onds is like static overloading in java.
- 16:24:48 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Dave: vs OS --- dyanmic overloading, e.g, as in Python (check)
- 16:24:57 [sandro]
- ds: no aliases, no overloading (Early C)
- 16:24:57 [sandro]
- onds: punning overloading -- disambiguate at compile time (Java)
- 16:24:57 [sandro]
- os: like dynamic typing (Python)
- 16:25:33 [josb]
- I understand
- 16:25:34 [DaveReynolds]
- I think I do
- 16:25:41 [sandro]
- I think I understand them again, now.
- 16:25:44 [PaulVincent]
- Understand: "sort of" ...
- 16:25:45 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- I will understand after I reread the stuff.
- 16:25:51 [Allen]
- not sure
- 16:25:57 [AxelPolleres]
- need more context, but was late again, sory. :-(
- 16:25:58 [StellaMitchell]
- +1
- 16:26:04 [Deborah_Nichols]
- +1
- 16:26:24 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Chris: Allen, what would help you understand this better?
- 16:26:51 [Allen]
- no
- 16:27:30 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Chris: We'll discuss this again next week; everyone should try to read the wiki page and prepare for a discussion next week.
- 16:28:06 [ChrisW]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Issue-31
- 16:28:15 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Sandro: we need to look at all the possible combinations of languages inthe mapping.
- 16:28:27 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Sandro: (e.g., onds to onds, onds ot on), etc.
- 16:28:42 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- zaim, next item
- 16:28:47 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- zakim, next item
- 16:28:47 [Zakim]
- agendum 6. "RIFRAF" taken up [from ChrisW]
- 16:28:51 [Allen]
- no
- 16:29:19 [AxelPolleres]
- same here, will progress starting from next week more
- 16:29:30 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- zakim, next item
- 16:29:30 [Zakim]
- agendum 6 was just opened, LeoraMorgenstern
- 16:29:42 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- zakim, close the item
- 16:29:42 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'close the item', LeoraMorgenstern
- 16:29:49 [Zakim]
- -johnhall
- 16:29:51 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- Nothing new for RIFRAF]
- 16:29:52 [Zakim]
- -PaulVincent
- 16:29:56 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- zakim, next item
- 16:29:56 [Zakim]
- agendum 7. "AOB" taken up [from ChrisW]
- 16:29:57 [Zakim]
- -StellaMitchell
- 16:29:58 [Zakim]
- -Deborah_Nichols
- 16:30:00 [PhilippeB]
- Leora, there is a public Wiki page presenting the global architecture of the MISMO POC: http://wiki.mismo.org/MISMOWiki/Wiki.jsp?page=ProofOfConcept
- 16:30:00 [Zakim]
- -Allen_Ginsberg
- 16:30:02 [Zakim]
- -josb
- 16:30:03 [ChrisW]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 16:30:03 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- no AOB
- 16:30:03 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Philippe_Bonnard (muted), Dave_Reynolds, ChrisW, Leora_Morgenstern, Sandro, Gary_Hallmark, ??P14
- 16:30:05 [Zakim]
- -Philippe_Bonnard
- 16:30:06 [Zakim]
- -Gary_Hallmark
- 16:30:07 [Zakim]
- -Dave_Reynolds
- 16:30:10 [Zakim]
- -??P14
- 16:30:41 [Zakim]
- -Sandro
- 16:30:43 [ChrisW]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:30:43 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/05/01-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
- 16:31:13 [ChrisW]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 16:31:13 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see ChrisW, Leora_Morgenstern
- 16:32:52 [Zakim]
- -ChrisW
- 16:32:53 [Zakim]
- -Leora_Morgenstern
- 16:32:54 [Zakim]
- SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
- 16:32:55 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Philippe_Bonnard, Harold, +39.047.101.aabb, Dave_Reynolds, josb, ChrisW, Deborah_Nichols, PaulVincent, Leora_Morgenstern, StellaMitchell, Sandro, Allen_Ginsberg,
- 16:32:58 [Zakim]
- ... csma, johnhall, Gary_Hallmark
- 16:33:14 [ChrisW]
- Regrets: FrançoisBry IgorMozetic DavidHirtle MichaelSintek MohamedZergaoui HassanAitKaci
- 16:33:42 [ChrisW]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:33:42 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/05/01-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
- 16:33:58 [ChrisW]
- ok, give it a minute and reload
- 16:34:07 [ChrisW]
- if you see the regrets line filled in you have the latest version
- 16:37:13 [LeoraMorgenstern]
- okay, thanks.