IRC log of wai-wcag on 2007-04-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:02:43 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
20:02:43 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/04/26-wai-wcag-irc
20:02:47 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make log world
20:02:48 [Zakim]
+Don_Evans
20:02:50 [MichaelC]
meeting: WCAG
20:03:07 [MichaelC]
chair: Gregg_Vanderheiden, Loretta_Guarino_Reid
20:03:17 [Ben]
Ben has joined #wai-wcag
20:03:20 [Zakim]
+Christophe_Strobbe
20:03:35 [MichaelC]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2007AprJun/0060.html
20:03:44 [Zakim]
+ +47.21.61.aabb
20:03:50 [Zakim]
+??P12
20:03:58 [Gregg]
Gregg has joined #wai-wcag
20:04:01 [Ben]
zakim, ??P12 is Ben_and_Gregg
20:04:01 [Zakim]
+Ben_and_Gregg; got it
20:04:07 [MichaelC]
zakim, +47 is Andi_Snow-Weaver
20:04:07 [Zakim]
+Andi_Snow-Weaver; got it
20:05:29 [Zakim]
+Loretta_Guarino_Reid
20:06:08 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft.a]
20:06:54 [bengt]
bengt has joined #wai-wcag
20:08:15 [Zakim]
+??P16
20:08:34 [bengt]
zakim, ??P16 is Bengt_Farre
20:08:34 [Zakim]
+Bengt_Farre; got it
20:10:04 [MichaelC]
me zakim, Sean_Hayes is Michael_Cooper
20:12:20 [MichaelC]
agenda+ Announcements, Questions, and Updates
20:12:23 [MichaelC]
zakim, take up item 1
20:12:23 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Announcements, Questions, and Updates" taken up [from MichaelC]
20:12:34 [MichaelC]
agenda+ Simplification Survey (part 1) for 26 April 2007
20:13:08 [MichaelC]
agendum 1 = Simplification Survey (part 1) for 26 April 2007 <http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20070426simplify/results>
20:13:35 [MichaelC]
agenda+ Simplification Survey (part 2 - definitions) for 26 April 2007 <http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20070426simplify2/results>
20:14:03 [MichaelC]
agenda+ Miscellaneous issues for 26 April 2007 <http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/200604260-misc/results>
20:14:34 [MichaelC]
agenda+ Simplifed Intro and Conformance for 26 April 2007 <http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20070426simplify3/results>
20:14:45 [judy]
judy has joined #wai-wcag
20:15:42 [Andi]
Andi has joined #wai-wcag
20:17:52 [judy]
q+
20:18:20 [Gregg]
ack j
20:18:38 [MichaelC]
scribe: Christophe_Strobbe
20:18:47 [MichaelC]
scribeNick: Christophe
20:19:16 [Ben_]
Ben_ has joined #wai-wcag
20:20:56 [Zakim]
+Sofia_Celic
20:21:32 [Sofia]
Sofia has joined #wai-wcag
20:22:21 [MichaelC]
zakim, next item
20:22:21 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Simplification Survey (part 1) for 26 April 2007" taken up [from MichaelC]
20:22:43 [Christophe]
URL: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20070426simplify/results
20:23:13 [Christophe]
Topic: Text of Principles 1-4 (must / need to)
20:24:52 [Christophe]
q+ to say that their are editorial conventions to indidate that "must" is according to RFC 2119
20:25:19 [judy]
q+
20:26:53 [Gregg]
ack c
20:26:53 [Zakim]
Christophe, you wanted to say that their are editorial conventions to indidate that "must" is according to RFC 2119
20:27:52 [Gregg]
ack j
20:30:52 [Zakim]
+David_MacDonald
20:32:19 [Christophe]
Resolution: accepted as amended ("needs to" changed back to "must")
20:32:39 [Christophe]
Topic: Text of Guideline 1.1
20:32:44 [David_MacDonald]
David_MacDonald has joined #wai-wcag
20:37:08 [David_MacDonald]
zakim, mute me
20:37:08 [Zakim]
David_MacDonald should now be muted
20:37:33 [Ben_]
RRSAgent, pointer?
20:37:33 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2007/04/26-wai-wcag-irc#T20-37-33
20:38:00 [bengt]
whatever == any
20:38:45 [bengt]
adj whatever , synonym any!
20:40:05 [bengt]
whatever form seems bad, any form is more strict
20:40:32 [bengt]
any is a synonym
20:40:47 [Loretta]
How about "other forms"?
20:40:47 [bengt]
any alternate would then be good
20:41:25 [judy]
judy has joined #wai-wcag
20:46:06 [theotherjudy]
theotherjudy has joined #wai-wcag
20:46:45 [Christophe]
Resolution: accepted as amended: change GL 1.1 to "Provide text alternatives for any non-text content so that it can be changed into other forms people need such as large print, braille, speech, symbols, pictures or simpler language."
20:47:15 [Christophe]
Topic: Text of guideline 1.2
20:49:50 [Gregg]
ack a
20:50:34 [Gregg]
ack s
20:54:03 [Christophe]
Resolution: keep the oringinal wording of GL 1.2 text
20:54:13 [Christophe]
Topic: Text of Guideline 1.3
20:58:12 [Christophe]
Resolution: change GL 1.3 text to: " Create content that can be presented in different ways (for example spoken aloud, simpler layout, etc.) without losing information or structure"
20:58:26 [Christophe]
Topic: Text of Guideline 1.4
21:00:39 [David_MacDonald]
q+
21:01:00 [Zakim]
-Don_Evans
21:01:01 [David_MacDonald]
zakim, unmute me
21:01:01 [Zakim]
David_MacDonald should no longer be muted
21:02:00 [Ben]
Ben has joined #wai-wcag
21:03:33 [Gregg]
ack d
21:03:35 [Gregg]
ack c
21:05:51 [Andi]
q+
21:05:53 [Makoto]
Makoto has joined #wai-wcag
21:06:59 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
21:07:00 [Makoto]
zakim, [IPcaller] is Makoto_Ueki
21:07:01 [Zakim]
+Makoto_Ueki; got it
21:10:14 [Christophe]
q+ to say that the concepts of foreground and background are not difficult enough to replace them with the harder syntax proposed here
21:10:31 [Andi]
ack a
21:12:34 [Zakim]
-Judy
21:13:17 [David_MacDonald]
q+
21:13:31 [Christophe]
ack chr
21:13:31 [Zakim]
Christophe, you wanted to say that the concepts of foreground and background are not difficult enough to replace them with the harder syntax proposed here
21:13:33 [Gregg]
ack c
21:13:35 [Gregg]
ack d
21:15:58 [Christophe]
Resolution: change GL 1.4 text to: "Make it easier for people with disabilities to see and hear content, including separating foreground from background"
21:16:23 [Christophe]
Topic: Text of Guideline 2.1
21:20:13 [Gregg]
ask c
21:20:56 [MichaelC]
ack c
21:23:16 [Christophe]
Resolution: change text of GL 2.1 to "Make all functionality available from a keyboard"
21:23:32 [Christophe]
Topic: Text of Guideline 2.2
21:28:05 [Loretta]
Give users with disabilities enough time to read and use Web pages.
21:32:19 [Christophe]
Resolution: change GL 2.2 text to: "Provide users with disabilities enough time to read and use content"
21:33:27 [Christophe]
Topic: Text of Guideline 2.3
21:33:41 [Gregg]
ack alex
21:36:29 [Gregg]
ack c
21:36:36 [Gregg]
ack al
21:36:38 [Zakim]
-Tim_Boland
21:38:19 [Christophe]
Resolution: change GL 2.3 text to: "Do not create content that is known to cause seizures."
21:38:33 [Christophe]
Topic: Text of Guideline 2.4
21:44:07 [Zakim]
-Andi_Snow-Weaver
21:44:23 [Andi]
Andi has left #wai-wcag
21:46:11 [Christophe]
Resolution: change GL 2.4 text to: " Provide ways to help users with disabilities navigate, find content and determine where they are."
21:46:20 [Christophe]
Topic: Text of Guideline 3.2
21:49:03 [Christophe]
Resolution: as proposed: "Make Web pages appear and operate in predictable ways."
21:49:22 [Christophe]
Topic: Text of Guideline 3.3
21:50:23 [Christophe]
Resolution: change GL 3.3 text: "Help users avoid and correct mistakes."
21:50:31 [Christophe]
Topic: Text of Guideline 4.1
21:51:40 [Zakim]
-Roberto_Ellero
21:53:59 [bengt]
oops
21:55:01 [bengt]
q+ to say that work with is not really compatible, beeing compatible with something that does not have a standard is wrong
21:55:18 [Gregg]
ack b
21:55:18 [Zakim]
bengt, you wanted to say that work with is not really compatible, beeing compatible with something that does not have a standard is wrong
21:56:09 [Gregg]
ack s
21:57:26 [bengt]
encourage ?
21:58:08 [Christophe]
Resolution: change GL 4.1 text to: "Maximize compatibility with current and future user agents, including assistive technologies"
21:58:15 [Zakim]
-Alex_Li
21:59:19 [Christophe]
Topic: Add a note to SC 4.1.2
22:03:01 [Zakim]
-Christophe_Strobbe
22:03:58 [Zakim]
+Christophe_Strobbe
22:04:40 [Zakim]
-Christophe_Strobbe
22:04:43 [Zakim]
-Cynthia_Shelly
22:05:12 [Christophe]
Resolution: change note to: "This success criterion is primarily for Web authors who develop or script their own user interface controls. For example, standard HTML controls already meet this provision when used according to specification."
22:05:44 [Zakim]
+ +0321632aacc
22:05:58 [Christophe]
zakim, +032 is Christophe_Strobbe
22:05:58 [Zakim]
+Christophe_Strobbe; got it
22:06:17 [Christophe]
Topic: Success Criterion 1.4.5
22:07:59 [Gregg]
ack a
22:08:02 [Gregg]
ack s
22:12:31 [Zakim]
+Michael_Cooper.a
22:12:35 [Zakim]
-Michael_Cooper
22:14:44 [Christophe]
Resolution: change SC 1.4.5 to: "Audio content that contains speech in the foreground does not contain background sounds, background sounds can be turned off, or ..."
22:15:00 [Christophe]
Topic: Add a definition for "CAPTCHA"
22:18:42 [Christophe]
Resolution: definition of CAPTCHA accepted as amended.
22:18:51 [Christophe]
Topic: Definition of "name"
22:20:44 [Christophe]
Resolution: accept definition of "name" as amended by Cynthia's proposal
22:21:12 [Christophe]
Topic: first bullet of Success Criterion 2.2.1
22:21:23 [Christophe]
Resolution: accepted as proposed.
22:21:52 [Christophe]
Topic: success criterion 1.4.5
22:22:52 [Christophe]
Topic: Success Criterion 1.3.2/1.4.1 (use of color)
22:26:46 [Christophe]
Resolution: Move SC 1.3.2 to SC 1.4.1 (no change in wording)
22:27:17 [Christophe]
zakim, next agendum
22:27:17 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Simplification Survey (part 2 - definitions) for 26 April 2007 <http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20070426simplify2/results>" taken up [from MichaelC]
22:27:38 [Christophe]
Topic: Definition of "abbreviation" (collapse definitions of "initialism and acronym")
22:34:54 [Ben]
zakim, who is making noise?
22:35:08 [Zakim]
Ben, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ben_and_Gregg (9%)
22:36:22 [Christophe]
Resolution: accept definition of abbreviation as amended
22:36:30 [Christophe]
Topic: Definition of "Assistive technology"
22:43:44 [Christophe]
Resolution: definition of assistive technology accepted as amended.
22:43:55 [Christophe]
Topic: Add a note to definition of "audio description"
22:45:01 [Christophe]
Resolution: accepted as amended.
22:45:16 [Christophe]
Topic: Definition of "full text alternative for multimedia including any interaction"
22:49:54 [Christophe]
Resolution: accept definition of "full text alternative for multimedia including any interaction" as amended.
22:50:04 [Christophe]
Topic: Revise example 1 in definition of "process"
22:50:29 [Christophe]
Resolution: accept proposal to revise example 1 in definition of "process"
22:50:50 [Christophe]
Topic: Revise examples in definition of "programmatically determined"
22:51:33 [Christophe]
Resolution: accept revision of examples in definition of "programmatically determined" as amended ("using ...")
22:51:44 [Christophe]
Topic: Definition of "programmatically determined link context"
22:53:55 [Christophe]
Resolution: accept definition of "programmatically determined link context" as amended.
22:54:31 [Christophe]
Action: Loretta to add item to survey regarding headings and programmatically determined link text
22:54:44 [Christophe]
Topic: Add an example to definition of "pure decoration" to match its use in 1.4.2 and 1.4.4
22:55:00 [Christophe]
Resolution: accepted as proposed.
22:55:13 [Christophe]
Topic: Definition of "real-time event"
22:55:58 [Christophe]
Resolution: accept definition of "real-time event"
22:56:11 [Christophe]
Topic: Add an example to definition of "text alternative"
22:58:07 [Christophe]
Resolution: accept example for definition of "text alternative" as amended.
22:58:15 [Christophe]
Topic: Change "renders" to "presents" in definition of "user agent" and "viewport"
22:58:36 [Christophe]
Resolution: accept change of "renders" to "presents" in definition of "user agent" and "viewport"
22:58:48 [Christophe]
Topic: Revise example 1 in definition of "Web page"
22:59:39 [Christophe]
Resolution: accept revised example 1 in definition of "Web page"
23:00:38 [Christophe]
zakim, next agendum
23:00:38 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Miscellaneous issues for 26 April 2007 <http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/200604260-misc/results>" taken up [from MichaelC]
23:03:15 [Christophe]
Topic: 721: Setting focus on error messages
23:03:33 [Christophe]
Resolution: accept LC-721 as proposed (unanimous)
23:03:41 [Christophe]
Topic: 731: Table magnification
23:03:54 [Christophe]
Resolution: accepted as amended
23:04:04 [Christophe]
Topic: LC-1028: Technology that doesn't fully support WCAG
23:06:29 [Christophe]
Resolution: send LC-1028 and LC-1029 back for tuning.
23:06:40 [Christophe]
Topic: LC-1158: Color vs contrast
23:06:56 [Christophe]
Resolution: accept LC-1158: Color vs contrast
23:08:31 [Christophe]
s/accept LC-1158: Color vs contrast/accept LC-1158 as emended/
23:08:46 [Christophe]
Topic: LC-1206: Principles under which some SC fall
23:08:54 [Christophe]
Resolution: accept LC-1206: Principles under which some SC fall
23:09:41 [Christophe]
Resolution: change LC-1158 to "partial accept"
23:10:05 [Christophe]
Topic: How to Meet Success Criterion 1.4.3
23:11:54 [Christophe]
Resolution: accept How to Meet Success Criterion 1.4.3 as amended
23:12:12 [Christophe]
Topic: How to Meet Success Criterion 1.4.6
23:12:16 [Christophe]
Resolution: accept How to Meet Success Criterion 1.4.6 as amended
23:12:28 [Christophe]
Topic: Sufficient technique for 1.4.3: Using a technology that has commonly-available user agents that support zoom
23:13:10 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
23:13:39 [Christophe]
Resolution: accept as amended: sufficient technique for 1.4.3: Using a technology that has commonly-available user agents that support zoom
23:13:49 [Christophe]
Topic: Sufficient technique for 1.4.3 and 1.4.6: Using percent for font sizes
23:15:08 [Zakim]
-Bengt_Farre
23:15:13 [Zakim]
-Sean_Hayes
23:15:29 [bengt]
bengt has left #wai-wcag
23:17:19 [Christophe]
Resolution: accept as amended: sufficient technique for 1.4.3 and 1.4.6: Using percent for font sizes
23:17:29 [Christophe]
Topic: Sufficient technique for 1.4.3 and 1.4.6: Using named font sizes
23:17:39 [Christophe]
Resolution: accept as amended: sufficient technique for 1.4.3 and 1.4.6: Using named font sizes
23:17:54 [Christophe]
Topic: Sufficient technique for 1.4.3 and 1.4.6: Using em units for font sizes
23:18:34 [Christophe]
Resolution: accept as amended: sufficient technique for 1.4.3 and 1.4.6: Using em units for font sizes
23:19:10 [Christophe]
Topic: Sufficient technique for 1.4.3 and 1.4.6: Using liquid layout
23:19:38 [Christophe]
Action: Loretta to move this to the next survey
23:19:53 [Christophe]
Topic: Failure technique: Failure of 1.4.3 and 1.4.6 when resizing visually rendered text up to 200 per cent causes the text to be clipped, truncated or obscured
23:26:14 [David_MacDonald]
I have a conference call a 7:30 got to go...
23:26:20 [Zakim]
-David_MacDonald
23:26:42 [Christophe]
Resolution: accept as amended: Failure of 1.4.3 and 1.4.6 when resizing visually rendered text up to 200 per cent causes the text to be clipped, truncated or obscured
23:27:58 [Zakim]
-Sofia_Celic
23:28:12 [Christophe]
Action: Cynthia to add an example to Failure technique: Failure of 1.4.3 and 1.4.6 when resizing visually rendered text up to 200 per cent causes the text to be clipped, truncated or obscured
23:28:39 [Christophe]
Topic: Proposed change to 3.3.4
23:30:31 [Christophe]
Resolution: accepted proposed change to 3.3.4. Note: this does not require every field to have a label or instruction.
23:30:42 [Christophe]
Topic: LC-1080: Link underlines
23:34:35 [Loretta]
Thanks, David.
23:39:17 [Christophe]
Action: Loretta to examine limiting scope of the new SC 1.4.1 (not color alone)
23:39:36 [Christophe]
Resolution: leave LC-1080 (Link underlines) open
23:40:02 [Christophe]
zakim, next agendum
23:40:02 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Simplifed Intro and Conformance for 26 April 2007 <http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20070426simplify3/results>" taken up [from MichaelC]
23:41:06 [Christophe]
Resolution: Accept 582, 590, 644, 664, 689, 884, 1010, 1330, 735, 754 , 843, 651, 658, 1007, 1312, 1370, 857(with editorial change) as proposed
23:42:23 [Zakim]
-Loretta_Guarino_Reid
23:42:24 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft]
23:42:25 [Zakim]
-Michael_Cooper.a
23:42:25 [Zakim]
-Christophe_Strobbe
23:42:27 [Zakim]
-Makoto_Ueki
23:42:40 [Christophe]
Christophe has left #wai-wcag
23:42:45 [Zakim]
-Ben_and_Gregg
23:42:46 [Zakim]
WAI_WCAG()3:00PM has ended
23:42:48 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.703.883.aaaa, MichaelC, Judy, Tim_Boland, Roberto_Ellero, Alex_Li, Don_Evans, Christophe_Strobbe, +47.21.61.aabb, Ben_and_Gregg, Andi_Snow-Weaver,
23:42:52 [Zakim]
... Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Bengt_Farre, Cynthia_Shelly, Michael_Cooper, Sean_Hayes, Sofia_Celic, David_MacDonald, Makoto_Ueki, +0321632aacc, [Microsoft]
23:52:35 [Ben]
zakim, bye
23:52:35 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #wai-wcag
23:52:39 [Ben]
RRSAgent, bye
23:52:39 [RRSAgent]
I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/26-wai-wcag-actions.rdf :
23:52:39 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Loretta to add item to survey regarding headings and programmatically determined link text [1]
23:52:39 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/26-wai-wcag-irc#T22-54-31
23:52:39 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Loretta to move this to the next survey [2]
23:52:39 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/26-wai-wcag-irc#T23-19-38
23:52:39 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Cynthia to add an example to Failure technique: Failure of 1.4.3 and 1.4.6 when resizing visually rendered text up to 200 per cent causes the text to be clipped, truncated or obscured [3]
23:52:39 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/26-wai-wcag-irc#T23-28-12
23:52:39 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Loretta to examine limiting scope of the new SC 1.4.1 (not color alone) [4]
23:52:39 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/26-wai-wcag-irc#T23-39-17