IRC log of i18nits on 2007-04-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:55:05 [RRSAgent]

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/04/25-i18nits-irc

13:55:09 [fsasaki]

meeting: i18n ITS WG

13:55:11 [fsasaki]

chair: Yves

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scribe: Felix

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scribenick: fsasaki

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agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2007AprJun/0016.html

13:55:41 [fsasaki]

rrsagent, make log public

14:00:06 [Zakim]

I18N_TS()10:00AM has now started

14:00:13 [Zakim]

+Yves_Savourel

14:00:53 [Zakim]

+Felix

14:01:18 [Jirka]

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14:01:49 [YvesS]

zakim, who is here?

14:01:49 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Yves_Savourel, Felix

14:01:50 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Jirka, RRSAgent, Zakim, fsasaki, YvesS

14:02:05 [fsasaki]

present+ Yves, Jirka, Felix

14:02:06 [Zakim]

+??P12

14:02:11 [fsasaki]

regrets+ Sebastian

14:02:33 [Zakim]

+Christian

14:02:44 [fsasaki]

present+ Christian

14:02:49 [YvesS]

zakim, who is here?

14:02:49 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Yves_Savourel, Felix (muted), Jirka, Christian

14:02:50 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Jirka, RRSAgent, Zakim, fsasaki, YvesS

14:03:10 [fsasaki]

topic: action items

14:03:11 [chriLi]

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14:03:36 [fsasaki]

action: Felix to prepare the BP WD for publication (ONGOING)

14:03:51 [fsasaki]

Felix: document will be published on Friday

14:04:12 [Jirka]

zakim, mute me

14:04:12 [Zakim]

Jirka should now be muted

14:04:29 [Jirka]

ok

14:04:41 [fsasaki]

s/ONGOING/DONE/

14:04:55 [fsasaki]

action: Christian to try to look at EMMA (DONE)

14:04:57 [YvesS]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2007AprJun/0007.html

14:05:20 [fsasaki]

Yves: Felix and me looked at the mail, I made a note about one example

14:05:41 [fsasaki]

Christian: your note was right, I'll change the example

14:06:44 [fsasaki]

Felix: example how to send a a comment:

14:07:01 [fsasaki]

to: public-some-wg , cc: public-i18n-its , public-i18n-core

14:07:31 [fsasaki]

Felix: i18n core would be in the loop, and it is our comment

14:07:56 [fsasaki]

Christian: I'll send the comment

14:08:09 [fsasaki]

action: Christian to send comment on EMMA

14:08:22 [fsasaki]

Felix: i18n core tracks comments like this: http://www.w3.org/International/reviews/

14:08:41 [fsasaki]

.. for a single review a separate HTML page like http://www.w3.org/International/reviews/0704-xforms11/

14:09:53 [fsasaki]

.. it is some effort, but I wanted to bring the proposal to you

14:10:01 [fsasaki]

Yves: seems to be a lot of effort

14:10:25 [fsasaki]

.. we could have a simplified web page which lists the specs we commented on and point to the initial mails

14:10:43 [fsasaki]

.. the other way would be that the person who sends the comment to keep track of it

14:11:05 [fsasaki]

.. having a simplified page would be the best solution

14:11:36 [fsasaki]

Felix: agree

14:12:12 [fsasaki]

Christian: maintaining the overview page would not be too much effort

14:12:26 [fsasaki]

.. more worried about the individual review

14:13:12 [fsasaki]

Yves: I start a summary page of comments

14:13:40 [fsasaki]

action: Yves to start a summary page for comments we made on other drafts

14:14:14 [fsasaki]

action: Felix to follow up with issue found in the Rec document about "lro" vs "rlo" (DONE)

14:14:25 [fsasaki]

http://www.w3.org/International/its/itstagset/its-errata.html

14:15:16 [fsasaki]

Felix: I updated the errata page with the error

14:16:41 [fsasaki]

.. we can publish the updated REC later after we have more errors

14:17:14 [fsasaki]

action: Yves to do add rule for xml:lang='zxx' and translate in DITA integration (POSTPONED)

14:17:24 [fsasaki]

topic: ITS Recommendation

14:22:07 [fsasaki]

Felix: got some feedback from Japanese members that ITS should get more outreach, e.g. having it as an ISO standard, which makes it easier to appraoch governmental institutions

14:22:29 [fsasaki]

Yves: in localization industry, ISO is not so important. Tool vendors are more important

14:23:05 [fsasaki]

.. it is a big effort to go to ISO , maybe national standards would be easier, but maybe it is the same effort

14:24:01 [fsasaki]

Jirka: I'm in ISO WG for markup languages

14:24:29 [fsasaki]

.. it is possible to have existing specs in s.t. which is called fast track process

14:24:51 [fsasaki]

.. it means that existing specs from e.g. OASIS or W3C become ISO standards

14:25:06 [fsasaki]

.. problem is maintainance. Must be clear who maintains: ISO or original submitter

14:25:34 [fsasaki]

.. in some countries having ISO stamps makes them more attractive for governmental organizations

14:26:00 [fsasaki]

Yves: very helpful. Maybe we can add an item to the agenda of the f2f to discuss that

14:26:40 [fsasaki]

Jirka: I can send pointers about the fast track process

14:26:51 [fsasaki]

action: Jirka to send pointers about ISO fast track process

14:27:26 [fsasaki]

Christian: I also think we should try to relate ITS to upcoming technologies like W3C specs

14:27:39 [fsasaki]

.. and we should try to relate ITS to producers of multilingual content

14:27:54 [fsasaki]

.. however, we also need to see tool support for ITS

14:31:26 [Jirka]

Jirka doesn't think that it makes sense to have one standard released by two standard bodies, it makes further maintenance harder

14:31:35 [Jirka]

Jirka thinks that tool vendors are more important then ISO stamp

14:31:42 [Jirka]

Jirka thinks that we definitively push ITS in the new HTML WG, but this WG solves different problems at this time

14:32:40 [fsasaki]

Both Yves and Christian are talking to various tool vendors / tool creators about ITS adoption already

14:33:16 [fsasaki]

Jirka: I'm preparing a vote for openoffice XML format. I can integrate into the vote that ITS should be integrated into the format

14:33:46 [fsasaki]

s/openoffice/office open XML/

14:34:03 [fsasaki]

everybody likes the idea a lot

14:34:19 [fsasaki]

Yves: we will discuss outreach also at the f2f

14:34:32 [YvesS]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2007AprJun/0013.html

14:34:34 [fsasaki]

topic: ITS in atom

14:34:45 [fsasaki]

yves: we have not followed up on this topic

14:35:35 [fsasaki]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2007AprJun/0017.html

14:37:03 [fsasaki]

Felix summarizes the mail http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2007AprJun/0013.html and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2007AprJun/0017.html

14:38:04 [fsasaki]

Yves: do you know about Atom? Is ITS useful?

14:38:24 [fsasaki]

Felix: not sure

14:38:45 [fsasaki]

Yves: I'll follow up on the bidi attribute and also ITS in general

14:38:59 [fsasaki]

action: Yves to look on Atom and the bidi attribute and possibly ITS in general

14:39:12 [fsasaki]

topic: Reviewing W3C Work for ITS

14:39:40 [fsasaki]

Christian: looked at SPARQL

14:40:04 [fsasaki]

.. found similar issues as i18n core WG

14:40:29 [fsasaki]

.. the variable binding result format http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-XMLres/ might use ITS

14:42:49 [fsasaki]

Felix: not sure if it needs a review, maybe it is auto generated and needs no localization

14:43:23 [fsasaki]

Christian: should we take more time to look into this and see also the outcome of the Atom review?

14:43:25 [fsasaki]

Yves: sure

14:43:34 [fsasaki]

Felix: does SPARQL need ITS?

14:43:37 [fsasaki]

Christian: don't think so

14:44:03 [fsasaki]

action: everybody to look at SPARQL and the SPARQL result format for potential ITS review

14:45:11 [fsasaki]

Yves: no new drafts

14:45:31 [fsasaki]

Christian: what about non-ITS specs?

14:45:45 [fsasaki]

.. like TMX?

14:46:06 [fsasaki]

Yves: we should gather the comments and send them out officially

14:46:28 [fsasaki]

action: Yves to look into TMX and SRX for ITS related comments

14:46:39 [fsasaki]

s/and SRX //

14:46:47 [fsasaki]

Yves: don't think there is s.t. in SRX

14:47:07 [fsasaki]

Christian: relationship between segmentation rules and our "Within Text" rules?

14:47:46 [fsasaki]

Yves: theoretically yes, practically not. SRX deals only with regex in text. ITS "Within Text" deals with element structure

14:47:59 [fsasaki]

.. you can implement both without knowing each other

14:49:00 [fsasaki]

.. "Within Text" has to do with s.t. which is sent to a tool. After that , another tool might use that information to do text segmentation

14:49:25 [fsasaki]

Christian: SRX is a standard for segmentation rules, so isn't it related to "Within Text"?

14:49:38 [fsasaki]

Yves: it is related, but at different stages of the process

14:49:50 [fsasaki]

Christian: we could make a joint comment to make the relationship to ITS clear

14:49:57 [fsasaki]

Yves: good point

14:51:16 [fsasaki]

Felix: we could make such relations also clear in the BP document

14:51:29 [fsasaki]

Yves: other formats: XLIFF: has no directionality aspect in it

14:51:40 [fsasaki]

Christian: yes.

14:51:56 [fsasaki]

action: Everybody to look into XLIFF 1.2, TMX 2. and SRX 2

14:52:25 [fsasaki]

action: Yves to add non-w3c specs to the comment overview page

14:52:36 [fsasaki]

topic: Best Practices Working Draft

14:52:55 [fsasaki]

Yves: made no change, waited for publication

14:53:05 [fsasaki]

.. at the f2f, mabye we could try some online editing

14:53:27 [fsasaki]

s/f2f/next call or f2f/

14:54:15 [fsasaki]

.. I have web ex and could set up a meeting

14:54:55 [fsasaki]

(some concerns about OS useability, for people who don't have windows)

14:55:13 [fsasaki]

topic: Face-to-face meeting at SAP Paris

14:55:18 [fsasaki]

Yves: as a reminder

14:55:38 [fsasaki]

.. one more topic: outreach discussion

14:56:09 [fsasaki]

topic: AOB

14:56:23 [fsasaki]

Yves: will not be at next call, Felix will chair

14:56:43 [Zakim]

-Christian

14:56:44 [Zakim]

-Jirka

14:56:44 [Zakim]

-Yves_Savourel

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Jirka has left #i18nits

14:56:46 [Zakim]

-Felix

14:56:47 [Zakim]

I18N_TS()10:00AM has ended

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Attendees were Yves_Savourel, Felix, Jirka, Christian

14:56:50 [fsasaki]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:56:50 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/25-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki

15:02:44 [fsasaki]

rrsagent, bye

15:02:44 [RRSAgent]

I see 12 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/25-i18nits-actions.rdf :

15:02:44 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Felix to prepare the BP WD for publication (ONGOING) [1]

15:02:44 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/25-i18nits-irc#T14-03-36

15:02:44 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Christian to try to look at EMMA (DONE) [2]

15:02:44 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/25-i18nits-irc#T14-04-55

15:02:44 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Christian to send comment on EMMA [3]

15:02:44 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/25-i18nits-irc#T14-08-09

15:02:44 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Yves to start a summary page for comments we made on other drafts [4]

15:02:44 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/25-i18nits-irc#T14-13-40

15:02:44 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Felix to follow up with issue found in the Rec document about "lro" vs "rlo" (DONE) [5]

15:02:44 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/25-i18nits-irc#T14-14-14

15:02:44 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Yves to do add rule for xml:lang='zxx' and translate in DITA integration (POSTPONED) [6]

15:02:44 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/25-i18nits-irc#T14-17-14

15:02:44 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Jirka to send pointers about ISO fast track process [7]

15:02:44 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/25-i18nits-irc#T14-26-51

15:02:44 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Yves to look on Atom and the bidi attribute and possibly ITS in general [8]

15:02:44 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/25-i18nits-irc#T14-38-59

15:02:44 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: everybody to look at SPARQL and the SPARQL result format for potential ITS review [9]

15:02:44 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/25-i18nits-irc#T14-44-03

15:02:44 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Yves to look into TMX and SRX for ITS related comments [10]

15:02:44 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/25-i18nits-irc#T14-46-28

15:02:44 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Everybody to look into XLIFF 1.2, TMX 2. and SRX 2 [11]

15:02:44 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/25-i18nits-irc#T14-51-56

15:02:44 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Yves to add non-w3c specs to the comment overview page [12]

15:02:44 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/25-i18nits-irc#T14-52-25

15:02:46 [fsasaki]

zakim, bye

15:02:58 [Zakim]

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15:02:59 [fsasaki]

zakim, bye

15:03:06 [fsasaki]

zakim, bye

15:03:10 [fsasaki]

fsasaki has left #i18nits