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13:55:05 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/04/25-i18nits-irc
13:55:09 <fsasaki> meeting: i18n ITS WG
13:55:11 <fsasaki> chair: Yves
13:55:13 <fsasaki> scribe: Felix
13:55:16 <fsasaki> scribenick: fsasaki
13:55:37 <fsasaki> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2007AprJun/0016.html
13:55:41 <fsasaki> rrsagent, make log public
14:00:06 <Zakim> I18N_TS()10:00AM has now started
14:00:13 <Zakim> +Yves_Savourel
14:00:53 <Zakim> +Felix
14:01:18 <Jirka> Jirka has joined #i18nits
14:01:49 <YvesS> zakim, who is here?
14:01:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see Yves_Savourel, Felix
14:01:50 <Zakim> On IRC I see Jirka, RRSAgent, Zakim, fsasaki, YvesS
14:02:05 <fsasaki> present+ Yves, Jirka, Felix
14:02:06 <Zakim> +??P12
14:02:11 <fsasaki> regrets+ Sebastian
14:02:33 <Zakim> +Christian
14:02:44 <fsasaki> present+ Christian
14:02:49 <YvesS> zakim, who is here?
14:02:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see Yves_Savourel, Felix (muted), Jirka, Christian
14:02:50 <Zakim> On IRC I see Jirka, RRSAgent, Zakim, fsasaki, YvesS
14:03:10 <fsasaki> topic: action items
14:03:11 <chriLi> chriLi has joined #i18nits
14:03:36 <fsasaki> action: Felix to prepare the BP WD for publication (ONGOING)
14:03:51 <fsasaki> Felix: document will be published on Friday
14:04:12 <Jirka> zakim, mute me
14:04:12 <Zakim> Jirka should now be muted
14:04:29 <Jirka> ok
14:04:41 <fsasaki> s/ONGOING/DONE/
14:04:55 <fsasaki> action: Christian to try to look at EMMA (DONE)
14:04:57 <YvesS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2007AprJun/0007.html
14:05:20 <fsasaki> Yves: Felix and me looked at the mail, I made a note about one example
14:05:41 <fsasaki> Christian: your note was right, I'll change the example
14:06:44 <fsasaki> Felix: example how to send a a comment:
14:07:01 <fsasaki> to: public-some-wg , cc: public-i18n-its , public-i18n-core
14:07:31 <fsasaki> Felix: i18n core would be in the loop, and it is our comment
14:07:56 <fsasaki> Christian: I'll send the comment
14:08:09 <fsasaki> action: Christian to send comment on EMMA
14:08:22 <fsasaki> Felix: i18n core tracks comments like this: http://www.w3.org/International/reviews/
14:08:41 <fsasaki> .. for a single review a separate HTML page like http://www.w3.org/International/reviews/0704-xforms11/
14:09:53 <fsasaki> .. it is some effort, but I wanted to bring the proposal to you
14:10:01 <fsasaki> Yves: seems to be a lot of effort
14:10:25 <fsasaki> .. we could have a simplified web page which lists the specs we commented on and point to the initial mails
14:10:43 <fsasaki> .. the other way would be that the person who sends the comment to keep track of it
14:11:05 <fsasaki> .. having a simplified page would be the best solution
14:11:36 <fsasaki> Felix: agree
14:12:12 <fsasaki> Christian: maintaining the overview page would not be too much effort
14:12:26 <fsasaki> .. more worried about the individual review
14:13:12 <fsasaki> Yves: I start a summary page of comments
14:13:40 <fsasaki> action: Yves to start a summary page for comments we made on other drafts
14:14:14 <fsasaki> action: Felix to follow up with issue found in the Rec document about "lro" vs "rlo" (DONE)
14:14:25 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/its/itstagset/its-errata.html
14:15:16 <fsasaki> Felix: I updated the errata page with the error
14:16:41 <fsasaki> .. we can publish the updated REC later after we have more errors
14:17:14 <fsasaki> action: Yves to do add rule for xml:lang='zxx' and translate in DITA integration (POSTPONED)
14:17:24 <fsasaki> topic: ITS Recommendation
14:22:07 <fsasaki> Felix: got some feedback from Japanese members that ITS should get more outreach, e.g. having it as an ISO standard, which makes it easier to appraoch governmental institutions
14:22:29 <fsasaki> Yves: in localization industry, ISO is not so important. Tool vendors are more important
14:23:05 <fsasaki> .. it is a big effort to go to ISO , maybe national standards would be easier, but maybe it is the same effort
14:24:01 <fsasaki> Jirka: I'm in ISO WG for markup languages
14:24:29 <fsasaki> ..  it is possible to have existing specs in s.t. which is called fast track process
14:24:51 <fsasaki> .. it means that existing specs from e.g. OASIS or W3C become ISO standards
14:25:06 <fsasaki> .. problem is maintainance. Must be clear who maintains: ISO or original submitter
14:25:34 <fsasaki> .. in some countries having ISO stamps makes them more attractive for governmental organizations
14:26:00 <fsasaki> Yves: very helpful. Maybe we can add an item to the agenda of the f2f to discuss that
14:26:40 <fsasaki> Jirka: I can send pointers about the fast track process
14:26:51 <fsasaki> action: Jirka to send pointers about ISO fast track process
14:27:26 <fsasaki> Christian: I also think we should try to relate ITS to upcoming technologies like W3C specs
14:27:39 <fsasaki> .. and we should try to relate ITS to producers of multilingual content
14:27:54 <fsasaki> .. however, we also need to see tool support for ITS
14:31:26 <Jirka> Jirka doesn't think that it makes sense to have one standard released by two standard bodies, it makes further maintenance harder
14:31:35 <Jirka> Jirka thinks that tool vendors are more important then ISO stamp
14:31:42 <Jirka> Jirka thinks that we definitively push ITS in the new HTML WG, but this WG solves different problems at this time
14:32:40 <fsasaki> Both Yves and Christian are talking to various tool vendors / tool creators about ITS adoption already
14:33:16 <fsasaki> Jirka: I'm preparing a vote for openoffice XML format. I can integrate into the vote that ITS should be integrated into the format
14:33:46 <fsasaki> s/openoffice/office open XML/
14:34:03 <fsasaki> everybody likes the idea a lot
14:34:19 <fsasaki> Yves: we will discuss outreach also at the f2f
14:34:32 <YvesS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2007AprJun/0013.html
14:34:34 <fsasaki> topic: ITS in atom
14:34:45 <fsasaki> yves: we have not followed up on this topic
14:35:35 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2007AprJun/0017.html
14:37:03 <fsasaki> Felix summarizes the mail http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2007AprJun/0013.html and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2007AprJun/0017.html
14:38:04 <fsasaki> Yves: do you know about Atom? Is ITS useful?
14:38:24 <fsasaki> Felix: not sure
14:38:45 <fsasaki> Yves: I'll follow up on the bidi attribute and also ITS in general
14:38:59 <fsasaki> action: Yves to look on Atom and the bidi attribute and possibly ITS in general
14:39:12 <fsasaki> topic: Reviewing W3C Work for ITS
14:39:40 <fsasaki> Christian: looked at SPARQL
14:40:04 <fsasaki> .. found similar issues as i18n core WG
14:40:29 <fsasaki> .. the variable binding result format http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-XMLres/ might use ITS
14:42:49 <fsasaki> Felix: not sure if it needs a review, maybe it is auto generated and needs no localization
14:43:23 <fsasaki> Christian: should we take more time to look into this and see also the outcome of the Atom review?
14:43:25 <fsasaki> Yves: sure
14:43:34 <fsasaki> Felix: does SPARQL need ITS?
14:43:37 <fsasaki> Christian: don't think so
14:44:03 <fsasaki> action: everybody to look at SPARQL and the SPARQL result format for potential ITS review
14:45:11 <fsasaki> Yves: no new drafts
14:45:31 <fsasaki> Christian: what about non-ITS specs?
14:45:45 <fsasaki> .. like TMX?
14:46:06 <fsasaki> Yves: we should gather the comments and send them out officially
14:46:28 <fsasaki> action: Yves to look into TMX and SRX for ITS related comments
14:46:39 <fsasaki> s/and SRX //
14:46:47 <fsasaki> Yves: don't think there is s.t. in SRX
14:47:07 <fsasaki> Christian: relationship between segmentation rules and our "Within Text" rules?
14:47:46 <fsasaki> Yves: theoretically yes, practically not. SRX deals only with regex in text. ITS "Within Text" deals with element structure
14:47:59 <fsasaki> .. you can implement both without knowing each other
14:49:00 <fsasaki> .. "Within Text" has to do with s.t. which is sent to a tool. After that , another tool might use that information to do text segmentation
14:49:25 <fsasaki> Christian: SRX is a standard for segmentation rules, so isn't it related to "Within Text"?
14:49:38 <fsasaki> Yves: it is related, but at different stages of the process
14:49:50 <fsasaki> Christian: we could make a joint comment to make the relationship to ITS clear
14:49:57 <fsasaki> Yves: good point
14:51:16 <fsasaki> Felix: we could make such relations also clear in the BP document
14:51:29 <fsasaki> Yves: other formats: XLIFF: has no directionality aspect in it
14:51:40 <fsasaki> Christian: yes.
14:51:56 <fsasaki> action: Everybody to look into XLIFF 1.2, TMX 2. and SRX 2
14:52:25 <fsasaki> action: Yves to add non-w3c specs to the comment overview page
14:52:36 <fsasaki> topic: Best Practices Working Draft
14:52:55 <fsasaki> Yves: made no change, waited for publication
14:53:05 <fsasaki> .. at the f2f, mabye we could try some online editing
14:53:27 <fsasaki> s/f2f/next call or f2f/
14:54:15 <fsasaki> .. I have web ex and could set up a meeting
14:54:55 <fsasaki> (some concerns about OS useability, for people who don't have windows)
14:55:13 <fsasaki> topic: Face-to-face meeting at SAP Paris
14:55:18 <fsasaki> Yves: as a reminder
14:55:38 <fsasaki> .. one more topic: outreach discussion
14:56:09 <fsasaki> topic: AOB
14:56:23 <fsasaki> Yves: will not be at next call, Felix will chair
14:56:43 <Zakim> -Christian
14:56:44 <Zakim> -Jirka
14:56:44 <Zakim> -Yves_Savourel
14:56:45 <Jirka> Jirka has left #i18nits
14:56:46 <Zakim> -Felix
14:56:47 <Zakim> I18N_TS()10:00AM has ended
14:56:48 <Zakim> Attendees were Yves_Savourel, Felix, Jirka, Christian
14:56:50 <fsasaki> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:56:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/25-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
15:02:44 <fsasaki> rrsagent, bye
15:02:44 <RRSAgent> I see 12 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/25-i18nits-actions.rdf :
15:02:44 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Felix to prepare the BP WD for publication (ONGOING) [1]
15:02:44 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/25-i18nits-irc#T14-03-36
15:02:44 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Christian to try to look at EMMA (DONE) [2]
15:02:44 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/25-i18nits-irc#T14-04-55
15:02:44 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Christian to send comment on EMMA [3]
15:02:44 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/25-i18nits-irc#T14-08-09
15:02:44 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Yves to start a summary page for comments we made on other drafts [4]
15:02:44 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/25-i18nits-irc#T14-13-40
15:02:44 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Felix to follow up with issue found in the Rec document about "lro" vs "rlo" (DONE) [5]
15:02:44 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/25-i18nits-irc#T14-14-14
15:02:44 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Yves to do add rule for xml:lang='zxx' and translate in DITA integration (POSTPONED) [6]
15:02:44 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/25-i18nits-irc#T14-17-14
15:02:44 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jirka to send pointers about ISO fast track process [7]
15:02:44 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/25-i18nits-irc#T14-26-51
15:02:44 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Yves to look on Atom and the bidi attribute and possibly ITS in general [8]
15:02:44 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/25-i18nits-irc#T14-38-59
15:02:44 <RRSAgent> ACTION: everybody to look at SPARQL and the SPARQL result format for potential ITS review [9]
15:02:44 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/25-i18nits-irc#T14-44-03
15:02:44 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Yves to look into TMX and SRX for ITS related comments [10]
15:02:44 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/25-i18nits-irc#T14-46-28
15:02:44 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Everybody to look into XLIFF 1.2, TMX 2. and SRX 2 [11]
15:02:44 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/25-i18nits-irc#T14-51-56
15:02:44 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Yves to add non-w3c specs to the comment overview page [12]
15:02:44 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/25-i18nits-irc#T14-52-25
15:02:46 <fsasaki> zakim, bye
15:02:58 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18nits
15:02:59 <fsasaki> zakim, bye
15:03:06 <fsasaki> zakim, bye
15:03:10 <fsasaki> fsasaki has left #i18nits