14:22:55 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:22:55 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-dawg-irc
14:23:02 <LeeF> zakim, this will be DAWG
14:23:02 <Zakim> ok, LeeF; I see SW_DAWG()10:30AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
14:23:19 <LeeF> Meeting: RDF Data Access Weekly
14:23:25 <LeeF> Chair: LeeF
14:23:27 <LeeF> Scribe: SimonR
14:23:37 <LeeF> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007AprJun/0026.html
14:23:49 <LeeF> LeeF has changed the topic to: "RDF Data Access Working Group - Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007AprJun/0026.html"
14:24:01 <LeeF> LeeF has changed the topic to: RDF Data Access Working Group - Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007AprJun/0026.html
14:24:31 <LeeF> Regrets: PatH
14:24:38 <LeeF> agenda + convene
14:24:40 <LeeF> agenda + actions
14:24:46 <chimezie> Hey AndyS: yes :)
14:24:50 <LeeF> agenda + Chimezie
14:24:57 <LeeF> you even get your own agenda item :)
14:25:07 <LeeF> agenda + LC comments
14:25:27 <LeeF> agenda + Leading digits in prefixed names
14:25:30 <LeeF> agenda + test suite
14:25:32 <LeeF> agenda + towards cr
14:25:35 <LeeF> agenda + www 2007
14:25:43 <LeeF> A deceptively long agenda. 
14:25:52 <LeeF> (Or decepively short? whichever.)
14:26:12 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()10:30AM has now started
14:26:19 <Zakim> +[IBMCambridge]
14:26:27 <LeeF> zakim, IBMCambridge is LeeF, EliasT
14:26:27 <Zakim> I don't understand 'IBMCambridge is LeeF, EliasT', LeeF
14:26:37 <LeeF> zakim, IBMCambridge holds LeeF, EliasT
14:26:37 <Zakim> +LeeF, EliasT; got it
14:26:41 <EliasT> EliasT has joined #dawg
14:26:50 <Zakim> +??P8
14:26:52 <AndyS> zakim, ??P8 is me
14:26:52 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:27:15 <Zakim> +??P9
14:27:22 <SimonR> Zakim, ??P9 is me
14:27:22 <Zakim> +SimonR; got it
14:27:46 <Zakim> +Chimezie_Ogbuji
14:28:23 <chimezie> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:28:23 <Zakim> On the phone I see [IBMCambridge], AndyS, SimonR, Chimezie_Ogbuji
14:28:24 <Zakim> [IBMCambridge] has LeeF, EliasT
14:29:06 <Zakim> +??P11
14:29:09 <jeen> zakim, ??P11 is me
14:29:09 <Zakim> +jeen; got it
14:29:49 <LeeF> ericP?
14:35:27 <Zakim> + +007383345aaaa
14:35:33 <LeeF> zakim, take up next agendum
14:35:33 <Zakim> agendum 1. "convene" taken up [from LeeF]
14:35:53 <LeeF> April 10 minutes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007AprJun/att-0012/2007-04-10-dawg-minutes.html
14:35:54 <SimonR> +regrets PatH
14:36:04 <iv_an_ru> Zakim, +007383345aaaa is me
14:36:04 <Zakim> +iv_an_ru; got it
14:36:25 <LeeF> April 17 minutes: http://www.w3.org/2007/04/17-dawg-minutes.html
14:36:29 <AndyS> AndyS sent regrets for April 17
14:36:53 <SimonR> Minutes approved and seconded by Jeen.
14:37:37 <SimonR> (retroactively, add AndyS's regrets!)
14:38:08 <SimonR> Next meeting 2007-May-1.  Scribe volunteer: Jeen.
14:38:13 <LeeF> zakim, close this agendum
14:38:13 <Zakim> agendum 1 closed
14:38:14 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:38:15 <LeeF> zakim, take up next agendum
14:38:15 <Zakim> 2. actions [from LeeF]
14:38:16 <Zakim> agendum 2. "actions" taken up [from LeeF]
14:38:23 <Zakim> +ericP
14:38:29 <LeeF> ACTION: ericP to try running DanC's comment-tracking script(s) [DONE]
14:38:52 <LeeF> ACTION: jeen to go through and identify out-of-date tests that shouldn't  be migrated to data-r2 (after ericP commits batch updates to tests)  [DONE]
14:39:29 <LeeF> ACTION: ericP to respond http://www.w3.org/mid/4617D68D.4010608@hp.com [DONE]
14:39:41 <LeeF> ACTION: EricP to run the yacker tool over and annotate the existing tests  [CONTINUES]
14:39:52 <LeeF> ACTION: ericP to get in touch with SteveH re: setting up an environment to  generate an Overview page for tests in data-r2 a la http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/ [CONTINUES]
14:40:04 <LeeF> ACTION: ericP, jeen, or LeeF to update  http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/README with info on possible  results format and on changes to manifest and test vocabularies  [CONTINUES]
14:40:35 <LeeF> ACTION: ericP to respond to Jeremy Carroll's comments re: langMatches [CONTINUES]
14:40:49 <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF or EliasT to reply to Bjoern regarding (not) POSTing  application/sparql-query documents [CONTINUES]
14:41:01 <LeeF> agenda + application/sparql-query
14:41:07 <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF to remember that the wee, lost filter tests should be put  [CONTINUES]
14:41:20 <LeeF> ACTION: jeen to mark these 22 approved tests as approved  [DONE]
14:41:50 <LeeF> agenda + langMatches
14:41:54 <SimonR> LeeF: Any additions to the agenda?  EricP: langMatches needs to be added.
14:42:12 <SimonR> LeeF: We have a new member, Chime.
14:42:13 <LeeF> zakim, close this agendum
14:42:13 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
14:42:14 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:42:15 <Zakim> 3. Chimezie [from LeeF]
14:42:20 <LeeF> zakim, take up next agendum
14:42:20 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Chimezie" taken up [from LeeF]
14:42:42 <Souri> Souri has joined #dawg
14:42:48 <SimonR> Chime's intro: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007AprJun/0021.html
14:43:03 <AndyS> Hi there!
14:43:12 <Souri> Sorry, I am late.
14:43:20 <LeeF> zakim, close this agendum
14:43:20 <Zakim> agendum 3 closed
14:43:21 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:43:22 <Zakim> 4. LC comments [from LeeF]
14:43:30 <LeeF> zakim, take up agendum 5
14:43:30 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Leading digits in prefixed names" taken up [from LeeF]
14:44:06 <LeeF> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2007Apr/0014.html Alan Ruttenberg's message 
14:44:10 <Zakim> +??P16
14:44:19 <iv_an_ru> No problem for me and no preferences, so decide as it
14:44:42 <SimonR> LeeF: The situation is different from how it appears in the agenda.  Alan's message in the comments list asks whether digits might be allowed immediately to the right of the : in SPARQL qnames.
14:45:16 <jeen> example: foo:1bar
14:45:36 <SimonR> LeeF: Concerned about schedule and hesitant and anything that risks it.  However, have been advised that might be able to pass it without requiring a new Last Call.
14:45:37 <chimezie> Support for syntax  beyond QNames towards CURIEs (perhaps) seems like a good idea to me (niavely WRT schedule)
14:45:53 <iv_an_ru> Alan uses Virtuoso so I'm biased and I'll vote for a decision that is most convenient for Alan :)
14:46:09 <SimonR> LeeF: Would like to gauge the technical merit with the WG.
14:46:58 <SimonR> I'd provisionally oppose it because it can't be serialized into RDF/XML.
14:47:39 <chimezie> Doesn't have to depend on CURIEs per say
14:49:10 <chimezie> +q
14:49:17 <LeeF> ack chimezie
14:49:27 <AndyS> Only issue I can see is around "ex:2" which is (now) two tokens and becomes one but I think that still only turns illegal syntax into legal.  I can't find a legal to illegal query transformation.
14:49:48 <SimonR> Chime: URLs that have escape characters that aren't allowed at the end of a qname.  E.g. %
14:49:51 <chimezie> % characters
14:50:18 <chimezie> <urn:foo:bar/Base%20Uri>
14:50:27 <ericP> <http://example.org/foo.html#xpointer(blahblahblah)>
14:50:42 <chimezie> assuming base of <urn:foo:bar/Base> what is the QName
14:50:43 <ericP> i.e. all of xpointer has this problem
14:51:41 <LeeF> AndyS: We call them "prefixed name" because they are not the same as XML QNames
14:51:44 <SimonR> AndyS: Prefer not to mention qnames; should rather talk of prefixed names.
14:52:11 <SimonR> LeeF, I'm happy to have a safety net.  ;)
14:53:40 <LeeF> SimonR: If we have a CONSTRUCT template with one of these, then it can't be serialized into RDF/XML
14:53:44 <LeeF> AndyS: We're already in that situation though
14:54:54 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:54:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see [IBMCambridge], AndyS, SimonR, Chimezie_Ogbuji, jeen, iv_an_ru, ericP, ??P16
14:54:56 <Zakim> [IBMCambridge] has LeeF, EliasT
14:55:04 <LeeF> Souri, are you on the phone?
14:55:12 <Souri> yes
14:55:21 <LeeF> zakim, ??P16 is Souri
14:55:21 <Zakim> +Souri; got it
14:56:05 <chimezie> The workaround (for the query author) ofcourse, is to use the expanded form
14:56:17 <LeeF> Or to use BASE sometimes? :)
14:56:39 <iv_an_ru> Expanded forms result in too much typos :|
14:57:06 <SimonR> LeeF: Seems to be enough support to go ahead; will consult Ivan and see about getting it on next week's agenda.
14:57:12 <LeeF> zakim, close this agendum
14:57:12 <Zakim> agendum 5 closed
14:57:13 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:57:14 <Zakim> 4. LC comments [from LeeF]
14:57:16 <LeeF> zakim, take up next agendum
14:57:16 <Zakim> agendum 4. "LC comments" taken up [from LeeF]
14:57:27 <SimonR> AndyS: EricP, do you have any ideas about the politics around CURIEs?  EricP: Nope!
14:57:28 <LeeF> zakim, take up agendum 6
14:57:28 <Zakim> agendum 6. "test suite" taken up [from LeeF]
14:58:08 <SimonR> AndyS: Not in favor of mentioning CURIEs; just modify our own definitions to be more accommodating.
14:58:39 <SimonR> Jeen: The tests we marked approved have been officially marked.  Also, sent an email:
14:58:44 <LeeF> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007AprJun/0028.html
14:59:33 <SimonR> Jeen: ... went through the tests to see what the status was, marked them all as out of data, already moved, to be moved/examined.
15:00:05 <SimonR> Jeen: Most interesting ones are the tests regarding sorting, and i18n.
15:00:39 <SimonR> Jeen: All need to be eyeballed and have judgements made about whether to discard, rewrite, etc.
15:01:00 <AndyS> q+ to ask about overall coverage
15:01:08 <LeeF> ack AndyS
15:01:10 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask about overall coverage
15:01:20 <SimonR> AndyS: How much coverage do we have over the spec?
15:02:22 <SimonR> Jeen: In the new suite, nowhere near full coverage yet.  Still many of the old tests are close to up-to-date; once those are moved, good coverage of the inportant features of the language.  Most doubtful area is RDF semantics, as a result of major editorial changes.
15:02:51 <SimonR> LeeF: Inquires after yacker's potential...?
15:03:14 <SimonR> EricP: Hoping to be able to run yacker, then XQuery to automate much of this.
15:03:23 <ericP> <tests><test name='...'>... xml tree for test </test><test ...
15:04:09 <LeeF> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007AprJun/0018.html 4 regex tests
15:04:37 <SimonR> LeeF: We have the 4 regex tests above validated by several sources.  Any else had a look at these?
15:04:46 <SimonR> (silence)
15:04:54 <LeeF> PROPOSE to approve the 4 tests in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007AprJun/0018.html
15:04:58 <LeeF> ericP: second
15:05:07 <LeeF> resolved.
15:05:18 <SimonR> approved with no objections or abstentions.
15:05:19 <iv_an_ru> They were running by my atumated test suite so they'e OK for me. But I did not even look at them by eyes.
15:05:19 <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF to mark the 4 regex tests approved
15:05:32 <LeeF> zakim, agenda?
15:05:32 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
15:05:34 <Zakim> 4. LC comments [from LeeF]
15:05:37 <Zakim> 6. test suite [from LeeF]
15:05:39 <Zakim> 7. towards cr [from LeeF]
15:05:40 <Zakim> 8. www 2007 [from LeeF]
15:05:42 <Zakim> 9. application/sparql-query [from LeeF]
15:05:44 <Zakim> 10. langMatches [from LeeF]
15:05:45 <LeeF> zakim, close this agendum
15:05:45 <Zakim> agendum 6 closed
15:05:46 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:05:47 <Zakim> 4. LC comments [from LeeF]
15:05:51 <LeeF> zakim, take up agendum 10
15:05:52 <Zakim> agendum 10. "langMatches" taken up [from LeeF]
15:06:06 <SimonR> LeeF: EricP, langMatches?
15:06:10 <jeen> Zakim, mute me
15:06:10 <Zakim> jeen should now be muted
15:07:29 <SimonR> EricP: Jeremy Carroll points out that originally RFC 3066, now supplanted by 4647.  We forgot to specify which one in the spec.  Basic and extended language codes make a difference.  Do we want to identify basic, but also have tests prohibiting extended langMatches?
15:08:08 <SimonR> AndyS: The differences are quite obscure, related to the script a language is in.
15:09:16 <SimonR> LeeF: Seems like a good thing to test, but we're not obligated to do so.
15:09:34 <SimonR> EricP: Favors testing it.
15:09:50 <SimonR> LeeF: Invites Eric to write up a test for it.  EricP: Okay.
15:10:09 <LeeF> ACTION: ericP to write a test showing that langMatches doens't do extended matching
15:10:12 <LeeF> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2007Apr/0023.html
15:12:07 <LeeF> zakim, close this agendum
15:12:07 <Zakim> agendum 10 closed
15:12:08 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:12:09 <Zakim> 4. LC comments [from LeeF]
15:12:14 <LeeF> zakim, take up agendum 9
15:12:14 <Zakim> agendum 9. "application/sparql-query" taken up [from LeeF]
15:12:21 <EliasT> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-desc-comments/2007Apr/0001.html
15:14:06 <SimonR> EliasT: WSDL WG suggested that we propose our own non-XML extension.  They wanted to know whether we wanted to raise an issue about it; we didn't want to hold them up.
15:14:28 <SimonR> LeeF: Guesses we'll probably not pursue this for lack of motivation.
15:14:57 <LeeF> zakim, close this agendum
15:14:57 <Zakim> agendum 9 closed
15:14:58 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:15:00 <Zakim> 4. LC comments [from LeeF]
15:15:09 <LeeF> zakim, take up agendum 8
15:15:09 <Zakim> agendum 8. "www 2007" taken up [from LeeF]
15:15:16 <SimonR> ACTION: EliasT or LeeF to reply to Bjoern w.r.t. application/sparql-query
15:15:32 <SimonR> I'm definitely not going to be there.
15:15:40 <iv_an_ru> I'm at www2007 iff I get visa.
15:15:45 <jeen> not me unfortunately
15:15:55 <Souri> *not* me
15:16:01 <SimonR> EliasT won't be.
15:16:13 <SimonR> LeeF and EricP for certain, Ivan a possibility.
15:16:29 <iv_an_ru> Orri Erling is there for sure.
15:16:42 <LeeF> zakim, close this agendum
15:16:42 <Zakim> agendum 8 closed
15:16:43 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:16:44 <Zakim> 4. LC comments [from LeeF]
15:16:51 <SimonR> LeeF: Prefer not to miss a week this close to the finish line, so will have a telecon as usual.
15:17:22 <LeeF> -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/lc-status-report.html last call comment tracking
15:17:42 <SimonR> LeeF: Shows which threads are closed, waiting, contact points, etc.
15:18:02 <jeen> nice and short, that overview
15:20:02 <SimonR> LeeF: Coordination group notes that given the history of this group, ought to review comments from previous LC and see whether they should be reopened.  Awaiting sufficient insomnia to tackle that....
15:21:44 <SimonR> AndyS: Re Perez et al's work on SPARQL semantics, thinks it was cited in the informative sections of the document.
15:23:23 <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF to mark the FROM * / FROM NAMED * thread as [CLOSED]
15:23:39 <SimonR> Chime: Satisfied with the response to his LC comment -- LeeF to officially reply and close it.
15:26:32 <SimonR> LeeF: Going forward, resolve the qname thing, seem to have responded to all the LC comments.  We have a good shot about being ready to propose the move to CR next week or two.
15:27:19 <SimonR> LeeF: Any further issues?  EricP: RIF Core went to WD1.  Anyone want to look at this?
15:28:56 <SimonR> Chime: Might be interested in looking at it if it was clear what the relevance was....
15:29:21 <SimonR> Chime is curious enough to give it a look, but would like guidance on what to look for.
15:29:37 <AndyS> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/rif-core/
15:30:10 <SimonR> The relationship between RIF and DAWG is *probably* similar to SPARQL and extended entailment regimes like OWL, etc.
15:30:20 <SimonR> ADJOURNED 15:30Z
15:30:22 <jeen> zakim, unmute me
15:30:22 <Zakim> jeen should no longer be muted
15:31:21 <Zakim> -jeen
15:31:44 <SimonR> Could someguru make the draft minutes for me?
15:31:45 <Zakim> -ericP
15:31:46 <Zakim> -Chimezie_Ogbuji
15:31:47 <Zakim> -[IBMCambridge]
15:31:49 <Zakim> -Souri
15:31:49 <Zakim> -iv_an_ru
15:32:11 <Zakim> -AndyS
15:32:23 <LeeF> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:32:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-dawg-minutes.html LeeF
15:32:29 <LeeF> RRSAgent, make logs world-access
15:32:30 <SimonR> Ta, Lee.
15:32:38 <LeeF> should be good to go in a bit, once everyting propagates
15:32:40 <LeeF> np, Simon
15:32:52 <AndyS> rrsagent, please leave
15:32:52 <RRSAgent> I see 14 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-dawg-actions.rdf :
15:32:52 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ericP to try running DanC's comment-tracking script(s) [DONE] [1]
15:32:52 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-dawg-irc#T14-38-29
15:32:52 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jeen to go through and identify out-of-date tests that shouldn't  be migrated to data-r2 (after ericP commits batch updates to tests)  [DONE] [2]
15:32:52 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-dawg-irc#T14-38-52
15:32:52 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ericP to respond http://www.w3.org/mid/4617D68D.4010608@hp.com [DONE] [3]
15:32:52 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-dawg-irc#T14-39-29
15:32:52 <RRSAgent> ACTION: EricP to run the yacker tool over and annotate the existing tests  [CONTINUES] [4]
15:32:52 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-dawg-irc#T14-39-41
15:32:52 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ericP to get in touch with SteveH re: setting up an environment to  generate an Overview page for tests in data-r2 a la http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/ [CONTINUES] [5]
15:32:52 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-dawg-irc#T14-39-52
15:32:52 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ericP, jeen, or LeeF to update  http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/README with info on possible  results format and on changes to manifest and test vocabularies  [CONTINUES] [6]
15:32:52 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-dawg-irc#T14-40-04
15:32:52 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ericP to respond to Jeremy Carroll's comments re: langMatches [CONTINUES] [7]
15:32:52 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-dawg-irc#T14-40-35
15:32:52 <RRSAgent> ACTION: LeeF or EliasT to reply to Bjoern regarding (not) POSTing  application/sparql-query documents [CONTINUES] [8]
15:32:52 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-dawg-irc#T14-40-49
15:32:52 <RRSAgent> ACTION: LeeF to remember that the wee, lost filter tests should be put  [CONTINUES] [9]
15:32:52 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-dawg-irc#T14-41-07
15:32:52 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jeen to mark these 22 approved tests as approved  [DONE] [10]
15:32:52 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-dawg-irc#T14-41-20
15:32:52 <RRSAgent> ACTION: LeeF to mark the 4 regex tests approved [11]
15:32:52 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-dawg-irc#T15-05-19-1
15:32:52 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ericP to write a test showing that langMatches doens't do extended matching [12]
15:32:52 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-dawg-irc#T15-10-09
15:32:52 <RRSAgent> ACTION: EliasT or LeeF to reply to Bjoern w.r.t. application/sparql-query [13]
15:32:52 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-dawg-irc#T15-15-16
15:32:52 <RRSAgent> ACTION: LeeF to mark the FROM * / FROM NAMED * thread as [CLOSED] [14]
15:32:52 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-dawg-irc#T15-23-23
15:32:53 <SimonR> Enjoy the conference!  :)
15:33:37 <Zakim> -SimonR
15:33:38 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()10:30AM has ended
15:33:39 <Zakim> Attendees were LeeF, EliasT, AndyS, SimonR, Chimezie_Ogbuji, jeen, iv_an_ru, ericP, Souri