IRC log of xforms on 2007-04-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:55:41 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #xforms

14:55:41 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-xforms-irc

14:55:43 [Dave]

I don't remember seeing an agenda but with the flood of emails from HTML WG it may have gotten lost

14:55:52 [ebruchez]

ebruchez has joined #xforms

14:55:57 [Blake]

Blake has joined #xforms

14:56:00 [John_Boyer]

it went to public-forms, but i cc'd w3c forms

14:56:10 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #xforms

14:56:16 [John_Boyer]

zakim, this will be forms

14:56:16 [Zakim]

ok, John_Boyer; I see HTML_XForms()11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes

14:56:19 [Zakim]

HTML_XForms()11:00AM has now started

14:56:27 [Zakim]

+Rafael

14:56:57 [Roger]

Roger has joined #xforms

14:57:19 [Dave]

Agenda+ why doesn't W3C Home page have link for "Forms" given this is the Forms WG?

14:57:38 [Zakim]

+ +49.308.322.aaaa

14:57:41 [Zakim]

+John_Boyer

14:57:49 [Rafael]

Rafael has joined #Xforms

14:58:05 [jturner]

zakim, + +49.308.322.aaaa is me

14:58:05 [Zakim]

I don't understand '+ +49.308.322.aaaa is me', jturner

14:58:24 [Steven_]

zakim, aaaa is jturner

14:58:24 [Zakim]

+jturner; got it

14:58:39 [Roger]

zakim, who is here?

14:58:39 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Rafael, jturner, John_Boyer

14:58:39 [Dave]

zakim, code?

14:58:41 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Rafael, Roger, Zakim, Blake, ebruchez, RRSAgent, John_Boyer, Steven_, jturner, Dave

14:58:44 [Zakim]

the conference code is 93676 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Dave

14:59:07 [John_Boyer]

Meeting: Weekly Forms WG Teleconference

14:59:20 [Zakim]

+Dave

14:59:20 [Rafael]

Zakim, Rafael has Roger, Rafael

14:59:21 [Zakim]

+Roger, Rafael; got it

14:59:34 [John_Boyer]

John_Boyer has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2007Apr/0001.html

14:59:36 [Zakim]

+ +1.812.535.aabb

15:00:08 [John_Boyer]

zakim, aabb is Blake

15:00:08 [Zakim]

+Blake; got it

15:00:11 [jturner]

zakim, mute me

15:00:13 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

15:00:14 [Zakim]

jturner should now be muted

15:00:15 [Zakim]

+Raman

15:00:17 [ebruchez]

zakim, [IP is ebruchez

15:00:17 [Zakim]

+ebruchez; got it

15:00:34 [ebruchez]

hello

15:01:27 [John_Boyer]

zakim, who is noisy

15:01:27 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'who is noisy', John_Boyer

15:01:30 [Dave]

zakim, who is making noise?

15:01:41 [Zakim]

Dave, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Rafael (9%), Dave (10%), Raman (23%)

15:01:47 [Steven_]

zakim, dial steven-617

15:01:47 [Zakim]

ok, Steven_; the call is being made

15:01:50 [Zakim]

+Steven

15:02:02 [Steven_]

zakim, I am Steven

15:02:02 [Zakim]

ok, Steven_, I now associate you with Steven

15:02:53 [John_Boyer]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2007Apr/0001.html

15:03:55 [Nick]

Nick has joined #XForms

15:04:07 [Zakim]

+ +1.703.368.aacc

15:04:08 [lars]

lars has joined #xforms

15:04:20 [John_Boyer]

Chair: John

15:04:33 [Zakim]

+[IBM]

15:04:48 [SusanB]

SusanB has joined #xforms

15:04:54 [Zakim]

+Nick_van_den_Bleeken

15:05:04 [Steven_]

zakim. [ibm is Jan

15:05:11 [David_]

David_ has joined #xforms

15:05:17 [Steven_]

zakim, [ibm is jan

15:05:20 [Zakim]

+jan; got it

15:05:37 [schnitz]

schnitz has joined #xforms

15:05:41 [schnitz]

zakim, code?

15:05:48 [Darrell]

Darrell has joined #xforms

15:06:04 [Zakim]

the conference code is 93676 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), schnitz

15:06:05 [Nick]

I thhink he replied he wouldnt be here

15:06:10 [Nick]

I can take minutes

15:06:20 [Nick]

or at least try

15:06:21 [John_Boyer]

Scribe: Nick

15:06:47 [Zakim]

+??P18

15:06:55 [schnitz]

zakim, ??p18 is me

15:06:55 [Zakim]

+schnitz; got it

15:07:02 [schnitz]

zakim, mute me

15:07:02 [Zakim]

schnitz should now be muted

15:07:14 [Zakim]

+??P32

15:07:27 [Nick]

Topic: Why no www.w3.org link to forms wg

15:07:42 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

15:07:43 [John_Boyer]

it has link to xforms, not forms

15:07:58 [David_]

Zakim, [IP id David_

15:07:59 [Zakim]

I don't understand '[IP id David_', David_

15:08:05 [David_]

Zakim, [IP is David_

15:08:05 [Zakim]

+David_; got it

15:08:08 [Nick]

ACTION: Steven to see what should be done to add a link to forms on www.w3.org

15:08:37 [lars]

zakim, I am ??P32

15:08:37 [Zakim]

+lars; got it

15:08:57 [Nick]

Steven: we change our irc channel to forms

15:09:04 [lars]

zakim, mute me please

15:09:04 [Zakim]

lars should now be muted

15:09:10 [Nick]

Steven lets keep it all form

15:09:25 [Steven_]

s/form/forms/

15:09:33 [Nick]

ACTION: Steven change our code to FORM on zakim

15:09:46 [John_Boyer]

s/FORM/FORMS

15:09:49 [Zakim]

+ +1.613.940.aadd

15:10:11 [Darrell]

zakim, +1.613.940.aadd is me

15:10:11 [Zakim]

+Darrell; got it

15:10:39 [John_Boyer]

http://www.w3.org/2002/Forms/Activity.html

15:10:41 [Nick]

John: Our activity statements links to xforms

15:12:13 [Nick]

ACTION: Steven Update http://www.w3.org/2002/Forms/Activity.html so it is 'Forms' in the navigation bar at the right

15:12:44 [Nick]

John: Forms WG page is already updated (changed XForms to Forms)

15:13:00 [Nick]

TOPIC: XForms Conference at XML Conference

15:13:09 [Nick]

John: Nothing is done yet

15:13:29 [Steven_]

zakim, mute me

15:13:29 [Zakim]

Steven should now be muted

15:13:31 [Nick]

TOPIC: XForms 1.1

15:13:53 [Nick]

John: Voice WG wants us to extend our last call period

15:13:55 [Steven_]

ack me

15:14:12 [Nick]

John: Should we publicly anounce that we extend our LC period

15:14:23 [Steven_]

zakim, mute me

15:14:23 [Zakim]

Steven should now be muted

15:14:29 [Nick]

Steven: Then we should sent an e)-mail to all chairs

15:14:48 [Steven_]

ack me

15:14:51 [Nick]

John: We want to produce CR by end of next F2F meeting?

15:15:11 [Nick]

Steven: All LC comments two weeks before next F2F, so we can triage them

15:15:24 [Nick]

John: Should we extend the LC to the end of April?

15:15:45 [Nick]

Steven: anything till the end of may should be OK for us

15:15:54 [Nick]

Steven: Should we say mid may

15:16:04 [Nick]

John: I prefer end of april

15:16:08 [Steven_]

zakim, mute me

15:16:08 [Zakim]

Steven should now be muted

15:16:22 [Nick]

RESOLUTION: Extend the LC period to the end of April

15:16:42 [Steven_]

ack me

15:16:50 [Nick]

Raman: Are we going to take XForms Basic to PR?

15:17:04 [Nick]

Steven: I thing we should take it to REC

15:17:24 [Steven_]

zakim, who is here?

15:17:24 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Rafael, jturner (muted), John_Boyer, Dave, Blake, ebruchez, Raman, Steven, +1.703.368.aacc, jan, Nick_van_den_Bleeken (muted), schnitz (muted), lars (muted),

15:17:27 [Zakim]

... David_, Darrell

15:17:28 [Zakim]

Rafael has Roger, Rafael

15:17:28 [Steven_]

zakim, code?

15:17:29 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Darrell, schnitz, David_, SusanB, lars, Nick, Rafael, Roger, Zakim, Blake, ebruchez, RRSAgent, John_Boyer, Steven_, jturner, Dave

15:17:31 [Zakim]

the conference code is 93676 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Steven_

15:17:38 [David_]

I'm here but cannot speak

15:17:44 [Nick]

John: David has aggread to work on a profile for mobile

15:17:53 [John_Boyer]

ok, David, thanks

15:17:56 [David_]

John: That is true

15:18:28 [Nick]

John: If Leigh is back we will see what needs to be done for Basic

15:19:07 [Nick]

Steven: We should work on it again, we are now rechartered

15:19:26 [David_]

We can participate in the call

15:19:49 [Nick]

John: Maybe david should stand up in a call to say that they implemented it

15:21:52 [Nick]

ACTION: Steven setup call for XForms Basic 1.0 (including John and David)

15:22:23 [Nick]

ACTION: Steven to increase slots on zakim

15:22:30 [Steven_]

http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms-basic/

15:23:19 [Nick]

John: This is the document http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms-basic/ that we will take in to the phone call

15:23:32 [Nick]

Steven: There is a PR version somewhere

15:23:56 [Nick]

John: We should move it to the public space

15:24:15 [Nick]

ACTION: John move PR version of XForms basic to the public space

15:24:37 [Zakim]

+ +44.442.087.61.aaee

15:24:43 [Nick]

TOPIC: XForms transitional

15:24:47 [schnitz]

zakim, unmute me

15:24:47 [Zakim]

schnitz should no longer be muted

15:24:58 [Nick]

Raman: I don't think it is a good idea

15:25:21 [Nick]

Dave: I think it is, there are good technical issues

15:25:33 [Steven_]

zakim, mute me

15:25:33 [Zakim]

Steven should now be muted

15:25:51 [Nick]

Raman: Not sure when the traskforce will be operational

15:26:11 [Steven_]

zakim, aaee is MarkB

15:26:11 [Zakim]

+MarkB; got it

15:26:21 [Steven_]

zakim, who is here?

15:26:21 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Rafael, jturner (muted), John_Boyer, Dave, Blake, ebruchez, Raman, Steven (muted), +1.703.368.aacc, jan, Nick_van_den_Bleeken (muted), schnitz, lars (muted),

15:26:25 [Zakim]

... David_, Darrell, MarkB

15:26:26 [Zakim]

Rafael has Roger, Rafael

15:26:27 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Darrell, schnitz, David_, SusanB, lars, Nick, Rafael, Roger, Zakim, Blake, ebruchez, RRSAgent, John_Boyer, Steven_, jturner, Dave

15:26:50 [Steven_]

who is phoning from area code 703?

15:26:51 [Nick]

Raman: It can damage XForms more then it will do good

15:27:13 [Nick]

Raman: We should attach the name XForms to it

15:29:13 [Nick]

John: Dan is now aware of future vision document

15:29:31 [Steven_]

Draft version of Basic PR: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/Group/Drafts/xforms-basic-20061109.html

15:30:17 [Nick]

Raman: Dave's work isn't complete yet, but looks good, but it isn't that mature as WEB Forms 2

15:30:30 [Dave]

q+

15:30:39 [schnitz]

q+

15:30:51 [Dave]

ack Dave

15:31:53 [Nick]

Dave: the task force should talk about the features, Ian can be editor

15:32:08 [Nick]

John: There should be two editors one of the two groups

15:32:54 [Nick]

Schnitz: now is the time to make xforms transitional mature

15:33:15 [Dave]

Dave missed Eric Raymond's email reviewing XFT

15:33:29 [Nick]

Schnitz: we should do it in combination with the html wg

15:34:07 [Nick]

Schnitz: XForms transitional can disapear in the near future

15:35:00 [Nick]

zakim, mute me

15:35:00 [Zakim]

Nick_van_den_Bleeken was already muted, Nick

15:35:20 [schnitz]

ack schnitz

15:35:36 [Nick]

dave: We should engage to work in forms taskforce

15:36:02 [Nick]

s/dave: We should engage to work in forms taskforce/John: We should engage to work in forms taskforce

15:36:04 [Steven_]

Shane is reinitialising the issues list now

15:36:10 [Steven_]

should be reset within 5 mins

15:36:22 [John_Boyer]

thx

15:37:06 [Nick]

John: We need taskforce memebers

15:37:18 [Steven_]

issues list done

15:37:19 [Nick]

Schnitz: Now is not the time yet

15:37:33 [Nick]

John: They should produce a WD in June

15:38:03 [Nick]

John: We should wait till the grace period ends

15:38:26 [Nick]

Schnitz:We should wait till the html wg has a second chair

15:38:54 [Nick]

Schnitz:So the can decide who can join the Taskforce from the html WG

15:39:09 [Zakim]

-Raman

15:39:31 [schnitz]

zakim, mute me

15:39:31 [Zakim]

schnitz should now be muted

15:39:33 [Nick]

TOPIC: Backplane

15:39:58 [Nick]

John: Charlie isn't here, so nothing to discuss now

15:40:14 [John_Boyer]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2007Mar/0057.html

15:40:34 [Nick]

TOPIC: Complex type validation issue

15:40:37 [John_Boyer]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2007Mar/0057.html

15:40:47 [ebruchez]

(I am leaving the call for 5 minutes)

15:41:59 [Nick]

John: We should answer his updated answer

15:42:12 [Nick]

John: Can anyone reply?

15:42:39 [Nick]

John: We leave it on the agenda

15:42:54 [Nick]

TOPIC: Version attribute follow-up

15:43:00 [Nick]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-forms/2007JanMar/0233.html

15:43:15 [Nick]

John: We talked about it prev. week

15:43:35 [schnitz]

zakim, unmute me

15:43:35 [Zakim]

schnitz should no longer be muted

15:43:38 [Nick]

John: I wonder if versioning xforms a host language issue

15:43:44 [schnitz]

q+

15:44:39 [Nick]

Schnitz: will the xforms version on the hostlange, or does the profile defines the xforms version in the hostlanguage

15:45:08 [Nick]

Schnitz: If it is a profile then it is a CDF issue

15:45:32 [ebruchez]

back

15:45:57 [Nick]

John: isn't it just a CDF issue

15:46:44 [Nick]

Schnitz: Maybe we should find out

15:47:11 [John_Boyer]

Schnitz: We believe there should in fact be a version for XForms itself

15:47:32 [John_Boyer]

Schnitz: not just a looser interpretation

15:47:42 [John_Boyer]

Schnitz: from the host langauge

15:47:55 [Nick]

MarkB: Two aspects, does the processor needs to know what version he is dealing with (for backwards compatiblity), It is usefull for authors to know with version the document is

15:48:29 [John_Boyer]

MarkB: it becomes really clear in new samples of XForms 1.1 that you need to have a 1.1 processor for it to work

15:49:24 [John_Boyer]

Schnitz and MarkB: should make a global xf:version attribute available to the host language

15:49:27 [Nick]

MarkB: We have a attribute that the hostlanguage can use to flag the version

15:50:29 [Nick]

Schnitz: It can make a difference if you have a transformational processor

15:51:12 [jturner]

zakim, unmute me

15:51:12 [Zakim]

jturner should no longer be muted

15:51:39 [Nick]

John: Can someone (MarkB, Or schints) post a LC comments to introduce a global attribute for versioning as an improvement

15:52:24 [Steven_]

http://htmlwg.mn.aptest.com/cgi-bin/xforms-issues is now empty

15:53:10 [Nick]

ACTION: MarkB to send LC comments to introduce a global attribute for versioning as an improvement

15:53:23 [schnitz]

zakim, mute me

15:53:23 [Zakim]

schnitz should now be muted

15:53:58 [jturner]

zakim, mute me

15:53:58 [Zakim]

jturner should now be muted

15:54:21 [Nick]

TOPIC: Problems with deleting the context node

15:54:47 [Nick]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2007Feb/0027.html

15:54:47 [Nick]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2007Feb/0027.html

15:55:35 [Nick]

John: I want to have the ability to have tables that always have one row

15:55:45 [Zakim]

-David_

15:56:32 [Nick]

John: If you delete the context node all subsequent actions thet use the context will fail afterwards

15:56:37 [ebruchez]

tough one

15:57:43 [Dave]

q+ to ask about repeat-min, repeat-max

15:57:51 [schnitz]

ack schnitz

15:57:59 [Nick]

John: Now I need to,if I want to delete the last node, insert first, use set index to the second item, and then do the delete

15:58:05 [Dave]

ack Dave

15:58:05 [Zakim]

Dave, you wanted to ask about repeat-min, repeat-max

15:58:33 [Nick]

Dave: shouldnt we use a declerative way to define a reapeat min and repeat max

15:59:09 [Nick]

John: In XForms 1.1 we make the insert and delete dom mutation actions

16:00:09 [Nick]

John: Steven asked to do this use cases in a more declerative way, but that wil prob. not just require one attribute, it will require extra events,...

16:01:36 [Zakim]

-jan

16:01:38 [Zakim]

-Darrell

16:01:39 [Nick]

John: Can everyone please look to the next three action items in the agenda

16:01:44 [Zakim]

-MarkB

16:01:48 [Zakim]

-ebruchez

16:01:50 [Zakim]

-lars

16:01:52 [Zakim]

-Steven

16:02:02 [Zakim]

-Blake

16:02:04 [Zakim]

-Dave

16:02:04 [John_Boyer]

s/action/issues

16:02:08 [Zakim]

-Rafael

16:02:12 [Zakim]

-John_Boyer

16:02:14 [John_Boyer]

rrsagent, make log public

16:02:15 [jturner]

jturner has left #xforms

16:02:16 [Zakim]

-jturner

16:02:18 [Zakim]

-schnitz

16:02:20 [Zakim]

- +1.703.368.aacc

16:02:28 [Steven_]

who was 703?

16:02:36 [Nick]

John: They are technical, and some preperation may be necessary

16:02:52 [John_Boyer]

s/may be/is

16:02:54 [Zakim]

-Nick_van_den_Bleeken

16:02:56 [Zakim]

HTML_XForms()11:00AM has ended

16:02:58 [Zakim]

Attendees were +49.308.322.aaaa, John_Boyer, jturner, Dave, Roger, Rafael, +1.812.535.aabb, Blake, [IPcaller], Raman, ebruchez, Steven, +1.703.368.aacc, [IBM],

16:03:01 [Zakim]

... Nick_van_den_Bleeken, jan, schnitz, David_, lars, Darrell, +44.442.087.61.aaee, MarkB

16:03:08 [Steven_]

rrsagent, make minutes

16:03:08 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-xforms-minutes.html Steven_

16:03:11 [John_Boyer]

rrsagent, make minutes

16:03:11 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-xforms-minutes.html John_Boyer

16:03:19 [John_Boyer]

oh, thanks steven!

16:03:39 [John_Boyer]

rrsagent, bye

16:03:39 [RRSAgent]

I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-xforms-actions.rdf :

16:03:39 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Steven to see what should be done to add a link to forms on www.w3.org [1]

16:03:39 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-xforms-irc#T15-08-08

16:03:39 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Steven change our code to FORM on zakim [2]

16:03:39 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-xforms-irc#T15-09-33

16:03:39 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Steven Update http://www.w3.org/2002/Forms/Activity.html so it is 'Forms' in the navigation bar at the right [3]

16:03:39 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-xforms-irc#T15-12-13

16:03:39 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Steven setup call for XForms Basic 1.0 (including John and David) [4]

16:03:39 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-xforms-irc#T15-21-52

16:03:39 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Steven to increase slots on zakim [5]

16:03:39 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-xforms-irc#T15-22-23

16:03:39 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: John move PR version of XForms basic to the public space [6]

16:03:39 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-xforms-irc#T15-24-15

16:03:39 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: MarkB to send LC comments to introduce a global attribute for versioning as an improvement [7]

16:03:39 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-xforms-irc#T15-53-10

16:03:54 [Blake]

bye