IRC log of xforms on 2007-04-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:55:41 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #xforms
14:55:41 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-xforms-irc
14:55:43 [Dave]
I don't remember seeing an agenda but with the flood of emails from HTML WG it may have gotten lost
14:55:52 [ebruchez]
ebruchez has joined #xforms
14:55:57 [Blake]
Blake has joined #xforms
14:56:00 [John_Boyer]
it went to public-forms, but i cc'd w3c forms
14:56:10 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #xforms
14:56:16 [John_Boyer]
zakim, this will be forms
14:56:16 [Zakim]
ok, John_Boyer; I see HTML_XForms()11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
14:56:19 [Zakim]
HTML_XForms()11:00AM has now started
14:56:27 [Zakim]
+Rafael
14:56:57 [Roger]
Roger has joined #xforms
14:57:19 [Dave]
Agenda+ why doesn't W3C Home page have link for "Forms" given this is the Forms WG?
14:57:38 [Zakim]
+ +49.308.322.aaaa
14:57:41 [Zakim]
+John_Boyer
14:57:49 [Rafael]
Rafael has joined #Xforms
14:58:05 [jturner]
zakim, + +49.308.322.aaaa is me
14:58:05 [Zakim]
I don't understand '+ +49.308.322.aaaa is me', jturner
14:58:24 [Steven_]
zakim, aaaa is jturner
14:58:24 [Zakim]
+jturner; got it
14:58:39 [Roger]
zakim, who is here?
14:58:39 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Rafael, jturner, John_Boyer
14:58:39 [Dave]
zakim, code?
14:58:41 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Rafael, Roger, Zakim, Blake, ebruchez, RRSAgent, John_Boyer, Steven_, jturner, Dave
14:58:44 [Zakim]
the conference code is 93676 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Dave
14:59:07 [John_Boyer]
Meeting: Weekly Forms WG Teleconference
14:59:20 [Zakim]
+Dave
14:59:20 [Rafael]
Zakim, Rafael has Roger, Rafael
14:59:21 [Zakim]
+Roger, Rafael; got it
14:59:34 [John_Boyer]
John_Boyer has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2007Apr/0001.html
14:59:36 [Zakim]
+ +1.812.535.aabb
15:00:08 [John_Boyer]
zakim, aabb is Blake
15:00:08 [Zakim]
+Blake; got it
15:00:11 [jturner]
zakim, mute me
15:00:13 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:00:14 [Zakim]
jturner should now be muted
15:00:15 [Zakim]
+Raman
15:00:17 [ebruchez]
zakim, [IP is ebruchez
15:00:17 [Zakim]
+ebruchez; got it
15:00:34 [ebruchez]
hello
15:01:27 [John_Boyer]
zakim, who is noisy
15:01:27 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who is noisy', John_Boyer
15:01:30 [Dave]
zakim, who is making noise?
15:01:41 [Zakim]
Dave, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Rafael (9%), Dave (10%), Raman (23%)
15:01:47 [Steven_]
zakim, dial steven-617
15:01:47 [Zakim]
ok, Steven_; the call is being made
15:01:50 [Zakim]
+Steven
15:02:02 [Steven_]
zakim, I am Steven
15:02:02 [Zakim]
ok, Steven_, I now associate you with Steven
15:02:53 [John_Boyer]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2007Apr/0001.html
15:03:55 [Nick]
Nick has joined #XForms
15:04:07 [Zakim]
+ +1.703.368.aacc
15:04:08 [lars]
lars has joined #xforms
15:04:20 [John_Boyer]
Chair: John
15:04:33 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
15:04:48 [SusanB]
SusanB has joined #xforms
15:04:54 [Zakim]
+Nick_van_den_Bleeken
15:05:04 [Steven_]
zakim. [ibm is Jan
15:05:11 [David_]
David_ has joined #xforms
15:05:17 [Steven_]
zakim, [ibm is jan
15:05:20 [Zakim]
+jan; got it
15:05:37 [schnitz]
schnitz has joined #xforms
15:05:41 [schnitz]
zakim, code?
15:05:48 [Darrell]
Darrell has joined #xforms
15:06:04 [Zakim]
the conference code is 93676 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), schnitz
15:06:05 [Nick]
I thhink he replied he wouldnt be here
15:06:10 [Nick]
I can take minutes
15:06:20 [Nick]
or at least try
15:06:21 [John_Boyer]
Scribe: Nick
15:06:47 [Zakim]
+??P18
15:06:55 [schnitz]
zakim, ??p18 is me
15:06:55 [Zakim]
+schnitz; got it
15:07:02 [schnitz]
zakim, mute me
15:07:02 [Zakim]
schnitz should now be muted
15:07:14 [Zakim]
+??P32
15:07:27 [Nick]
Topic: Why no www.w3.org link to forms wg
15:07:42 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:07:43 [John_Boyer]
it has link to xforms, not forms
15:07:58 [David_]
Zakim, [IP id David_
15:07:59 [Zakim]
I don't understand '[IP id David_', David_
15:08:05 [David_]
Zakim, [IP is David_
15:08:05 [Zakim]
+David_; got it
15:08:08 [Nick]
ACTION: Steven to see what should be done to add a link to forms on www.w3.org
15:08:37 [lars]
zakim, I am ??P32
15:08:37 [Zakim]
+lars; got it
15:08:57 [Nick]
Steven: we change our irc channel to forms
15:09:04 [lars]
zakim, mute me please
15:09:04 [Zakim]
lars should now be muted
15:09:10 [Nick]
Steven lets keep it all form
15:09:25 [Steven_]
s/form/forms/
15:09:33 [Nick]
ACTION: Steven change our code to FORM on zakim
15:09:46 [John_Boyer]
s/FORM/FORMS
15:09:49 [Zakim]
+ +1.613.940.aadd
15:10:11 [Darrell]
zakim, +1.613.940.aadd is me
15:10:11 [Zakim]
+Darrell; got it
15:10:39 [John_Boyer]
http://www.w3.org/2002/Forms/Activity.html
15:10:41 [Nick]
John: Our activity statements links to xforms
15:12:13 [Nick]
ACTION: Steven Update http://www.w3.org/2002/Forms/Activity.html so it is 'Forms' in the navigation bar at the right
15:12:44 [Nick]
John: Forms WG page is already updated (changed XForms to Forms)
15:13:00 [Nick]
TOPIC: XForms Conference at XML Conference
15:13:09 [Nick]
John: Nothing is done yet
15:13:29 [Steven_]
zakim, mute me
15:13:29 [Zakim]
Steven should now be muted
15:13:31 [Nick]
TOPIC: XForms 1.1
15:13:53 [Nick]
John: Voice WG wants us to extend our last call period
15:13:55 [Steven_]
ack me
15:14:12 [Nick]
John: Should we publicly anounce that we extend our LC period
15:14:23 [Steven_]
zakim, mute me
15:14:23 [Zakim]
Steven should now be muted
15:14:29 [Nick]
Steven: Then we should sent an e)-mail to all chairs
15:14:48 [Steven_]
ack me
15:14:51 [Nick]
John: We want to produce CR by end of next F2F meeting?
15:15:11 [Nick]
Steven: All LC comments two weeks before next F2F, so we can triage them
15:15:24 [Nick]
John: Should we extend the LC to the end of April?
15:15:45 [Nick]
Steven: anything till the end of may should be OK for us
15:15:54 [Nick]
Steven: Should we say mid may
15:16:04 [Nick]
John: I prefer end of april
15:16:08 [Steven_]
zakim, mute me
15:16:08 [Zakim]
Steven should now be muted
15:16:22 [Nick]
RESOLUTION: Extend the LC period to the end of April
15:16:42 [Steven_]
ack me
15:16:50 [Nick]
Raman: Are we going to take XForms Basic to PR?
15:17:04 [Nick]
Steven: I thing we should take it to REC
15:17:24 [Steven_]
zakim, who is here?
15:17:24 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Rafael, jturner (muted), John_Boyer, Dave, Blake, ebruchez, Raman, Steven, +1.703.368.aacc, jan, Nick_van_den_Bleeken (muted), schnitz (muted), lars (muted),
15:17:27 [Zakim]
... David_, Darrell
15:17:28 [Zakim]
Rafael has Roger, Rafael
15:17:28 [Steven_]
zakim, code?
15:17:29 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Darrell, schnitz, David_, SusanB, lars, Nick, Rafael, Roger, Zakim, Blake, ebruchez, RRSAgent, John_Boyer, Steven_, jturner, Dave
15:17:31 [Zakim]
the conference code is 93676 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Steven_
15:17:38 [David_]
I'm here but cannot speak
15:17:44 [Nick]
John: David has aggread to work on a profile for mobile
15:17:53 [John_Boyer]
ok, David, thanks
15:17:56 [David_]
John: That is true
15:18:28 [Nick]
John: If Leigh is back we will see what needs to be done for Basic
15:19:07 [Nick]
Steven: We should work on it again, we are now rechartered
15:19:26 [David_]
We can participate in the call
15:19:49 [Nick]
John: Maybe david should stand up in a call to say that they implemented it
15:21:52 [Nick]
ACTION: Steven setup call for XForms Basic 1.0 (including John and David)
15:22:23 [Nick]
ACTION: Steven to increase slots on zakim
15:22:30 [Steven_]
http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms-basic/
15:23:19 [Nick]
John: This is the document http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms-basic/ that we will take in to the phone call
15:23:32 [Nick]
Steven: There is a PR version somewhere
15:23:56 [Nick]
John: We should move it to the public space
15:24:15 [Nick]
ACTION: John move PR version of XForms basic to the public space
15:24:37 [Zakim]
+ +44.442.087.61.aaee
15:24:43 [Nick]
TOPIC: XForms transitional
15:24:47 [schnitz]
zakim, unmute me
15:24:47 [Zakim]
schnitz should no longer be muted
15:24:58 [Nick]
Raman: I don't think it is a good idea
15:25:21 [Nick]
Dave: I think it is, there are good technical issues
15:25:33 [Steven_]
zakim, mute me
15:25:33 [Zakim]
Steven should now be muted
15:25:51 [Nick]
Raman: Not sure when the traskforce will be operational
15:26:11 [Steven_]
zakim, aaee is MarkB
15:26:11 [Zakim]
+MarkB; got it
15:26:21 [Steven_]
zakim, who is here?
15:26:21 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Rafael, jturner (muted), John_Boyer, Dave, Blake, ebruchez, Raman, Steven (muted), +1.703.368.aacc, jan, Nick_van_den_Bleeken (muted), schnitz, lars (muted),
15:26:25 [Zakim]
... David_, Darrell, MarkB
15:26:26 [Zakim]
Rafael has Roger, Rafael
15:26:27 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Darrell, schnitz, David_, SusanB, lars, Nick, Rafael, Roger, Zakim, Blake, ebruchez, RRSAgent, John_Boyer, Steven_, jturner, Dave
15:26:50 [Steven_]
who is phoning from area code 703?
15:26:51 [Nick]
Raman: It can damage XForms more then it will do good
15:27:13 [Nick]
Raman: We should attach the name XForms to it
15:29:13 [Nick]
John: Dan is now aware of future vision document
15:29:31 [Steven_]
Draft version of Basic PR: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/Group/Drafts/xforms-basic-20061109.html
15:30:17 [Nick]
Raman: Dave's work isn't complete yet, but looks good, but it isn't that mature as WEB Forms 2
15:30:30 [Dave]
q+
15:30:39 [schnitz]
q+
15:30:51 [Dave]
ack Dave
15:31:53 [Nick]
Dave: the task force should talk about the features, Ian can be editor
15:32:08 [Nick]
John: There should be two editors one of the two groups
15:32:54 [Nick]
Schnitz: now is the time to make xforms transitional mature
15:33:15 [Dave]
Dave missed Eric Raymond's email reviewing XFT
15:33:29 [Nick]
Schnitz: we should do it in combination with the html wg
15:34:07 [Nick]
Schnitz: XForms transitional can disapear in the near future
15:35:00 [Nick]
zakim, mute me
15:35:00 [Zakim]
Nick_van_den_Bleeken was already muted, Nick
15:35:20 [schnitz]
ack schnitz
15:35:36 [Nick]
dave: We should engage to work in forms taskforce
15:36:02 [Nick]
s/dave: We should engage to work in forms taskforce/John: We should engage to work in forms taskforce
15:36:04 [Steven_]
Shane is reinitialising the issues list now
15:36:10 [Steven_]
should be reset within 5 mins
15:36:22 [John_Boyer]
thx
15:37:06 [Nick]
John: We need taskforce memebers
15:37:18 [Steven_]
issues list done
15:37:19 [Nick]
Schnitz: Now is not the time yet
15:37:33 [Nick]
John: They should produce a WD in June
15:38:03 [Nick]
John: We should wait till the grace period ends
15:38:26 [Nick]
Schnitz:We should wait till the html wg has a second chair
15:38:54 [Nick]
Schnitz:So the can decide who can join the Taskforce from the html WG
15:39:09 [Zakim]
-Raman
15:39:31 [schnitz]
zakim, mute me
15:39:31 [Zakim]
schnitz should now be muted
15:39:33 [Nick]
TOPIC: Backplane
15:39:58 [Nick]
John: Charlie isn't here, so nothing to discuss now
15:40:14 [John_Boyer]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2007Mar/0057.html
15:40:34 [Nick]
TOPIC: Complex type validation issue
15:40:37 [John_Boyer]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2007Mar/0057.html
15:40:47 [ebruchez]
(I am leaving the call for 5 minutes)
15:41:59 [Nick]
John: We should answer his updated answer
15:42:12 [Nick]
John: Can anyone reply?
15:42:39 [Nick]
John: We leave it on the agenda
15:42:54 [Nick]
TOPIC: Version attribute follow-up
15:43:00 [Nick]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-forms/2007JanMar/0233.html
15:43:15 [Nick]
John: We talked about it prev. week
15:43:35 [schnitz]
zakim, unmute me
15:43:35 [Zakim]
schnitz should no longer be muted
15:43:38 [Nick]
John: I wonder if versioning xforms a host language issue
15:43:44 [schnitz]
q+
15:44:39 [Nick]
Schnitz: will the xforms version on the hostlange, or does the profile defines the xforms version in the hostlanguage
15:45:08 [Nick]
Schnitz: If it is a profile then it is a CDF issue
15:45:32 [ebruchez]
back
15:45:57 [Nick]
John: isn't it just a CDF issue
15:46:44 [Nick]
Schnitz: Maybe we should find out
15:47:11 [John_Boyer]
Schnitz: We believe there should in fact be a version for XForms itself
15:47:32 [John_Boyer]
Schnitz: not just a looser interpretation
15:47:42 [John_Boyer]
Schnitz: from the host langauge
15:47:55 [Nick]
MarkB: Two aspects, does the processor needs to know what version he is dealing with (for backwards compatiblity), It is usefull for authors to know with version the document is
15:48:29 [John_Boyer]
MarkB: it becomes really clear in new samples of XForms 1.1 that you need to have a 1.1 processor for it to work
15:49:24 [John_Boyer]
Schnitz and MarkB: should make a global xf:version attribute available to the host language
15:49:27 [Nick]
MarkB: We have a attribute that the hostlanguage can use to flag the version
15:50:29 [Nick]
Schnitz: It can make a difference if you have a transformational processor
15:51:12 [jturner]
zakim, unmute me
15:51:12 [Zakim]
jturner should no longer be muted
15:51:39 [Nick]
John: Can someone (MarkB, Or schints) post a LC comments to introduce a global attribute for versioning as an improvement
15:52:24 [Steven_]
http://htmlwg.mn.aptest.com/cgi-bin/xforms-issues is now empty
15:53:10 [Nick]
ACTION: MarkB to send LC comments to introduce a global attribute for versioning as an improvement
15:53:23 [schnitz]
zakim, mute me
15:53:23 [Zakim]
schnitz should now be muted
15:53:58 [jturner]
zakim, mute me
15:53:58 [Zakim]
jturner should now be muted
15:54:21 [Nick]
TOPIC: Problems with deleting the context node
15:54:47 [Nick]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2007Feb/0027.html
15:54:47 [Nick]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2007Feb/0027.html
15:55:35 [Nick]
John: I want to have the ability to have tables that always have one row
15:55:45 [Zakim]
-David_
15:56:32 [Nick]
John: If you delete the context node all subsequent actions thet use the context will fail afterwards
15:56:37 [ebruchez]
tough one
15:57:43 [Dave]
q+ to ask about repeat-min, repeat-max
15:57:51 [schnitz]
ack schnitz
15:57:59 [Nick]
John: Now I need to,if I want to delete the last node, insert first, use set index to the second item, and then do the delete
15:58:05 [Dave]
ack Dave
15:58:05 [Zakim]
Dave, you wanted to ask about repeat-min, repeat-max
15:58:33 [Nick]
Dave: shouldnt we use a declerative way to define a reapeat min and repeat max
15:59:09 [Nick]
John: In XForms 1.1 we make the insert and delete dom mutation actions
16:00:09 [Nick]
John: Steven asked to do this use cases in a more declerative way, but that wil prob. not just require one attribute, it will require extra events,...
16:01:36 [Zakim]
-jan
16:01:38 [Zakim]
-Darrell
16:01:39 [Nick]
John: Can everyone please look to the next three action items in the agenda
16:01:44 [Zakim]
-MarkB
16:01:48 [Zakim]
-ebruchez
16:01:50 [Zakim]
-lars
16:01:52 [Zakim]
-Steven
16:02:02 [Zakim]
-Blake
16:02:04 [Zakim]
-Dave
16:02:04 [John_Boyer]
s/action/issues
16:02:08 [Zakim]
-Rafael
16:02:12 [Zakim]
-John_Boyer
16:02:14 [John_Boyer]
rrsagent, make log public
16:02:15 [jturner]
jturner has left #xforms
16:02:16 [Zakim]
-jturner
16:02:18 [Zakim]
-schnitz
16:02:20 [Zakim]
- +1.703.368.aacc
16:02:28 [Steven_]
who was 703?
16:02:36 [Nick]
John: They are technical, and some preperation may be necessary
16:02:52 [John_Boyer]
s/may be/is
16:02:54 [Zakim]
-Nick_van_den_Bleeken
16:02:56 [Zakim]
HTML_XForms()11:00AM has ended
16:02:58 [Zakim]
Attendees were +49.308.322.aaaa, John_Boyer, jturner, Dave, Roger, Rafael, +1.812.535.aabb, Blake, [IPcaller], Raman, ebruchez, Steven, +1.703.368.aacc, [IBM],
16:03:01 [Zakim]
... Nick_van_den_Bleeken, jan, schnitz, David_, lars, Darrell, +44.442.087.61.aaee, MarkB
16:03:08 [Steven_]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:03:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-xforms-minutes.html Steven_
16:03:11 [John_Boyer]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:03:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-xforms-minutes.html John_Boyer
16:03:19 [John_Boyer]
oh, thanks steven!
16:03:39 [John_Boyer]
rrsagent, bye
16:03:39 [RRSAgent]
I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-xforms-actions.rdf :
16:03:39 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Steven to see what should be done to add a link to forms on www.w3.org [1]
16:03:39 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-xforms-irc#T15-08-08
16:03:39 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Steven change our code to FORM on zakim [2]
16:03:39 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-xforms-irc#T15-09-33
16:03:39 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Steven Update http://www.w3.org/2002/Forms/Activity.html so it is 'Forms' in the navigation bar at the right [3]
16:03:39 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-xforms-irc#T15-12-13
16:03:39 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Steven setup call for XForms Basic 1.0 (including John and David) [4]
16:03:39 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-xforms-irc#T15-21-52
16:03:39 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Steven to increase slots on zakim [5]
16:03:39 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-xforms-irc#T15-22-23
16:03:39 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: John move PR version of XForms basic to the public space [6]
16:03:39 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-xforms-irc#T15-24-15
16:03:39 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: MarkB to send LC comments to introduce a global attribute for versioning as an improvement [7]
16:03:39 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-xforms-irc#T15-53-10
16:03:54 [Blake]
bye