15:04:34 RRSAgent has joined #grddl-wg 15:04:34 logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-grddl-wg-irc 15:04:37 Zakim has joined #grddl-wg 15:05:04 Zakim, this is grddl 15:05:04 ok, DanC; that matches SW_GRDDL()11:00AM 15:05:13 Zakim, read agenda from http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/weekly-agenda 15:05:16 working on it, DanC 15:05:17 agenda+ Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2007-04-04T11:00-0400 15:05:22 agendum 1 added 15:05:24 agenda+ Patent Policy 15:05:26 agendum 2 added 15:05:28 agenda+ GRDDL Spec: Last Call comments due 30 March 2007 15:05:30 agendum 3 added 15:05:32 agenda+ multiple values in @rel 15:05:34 agendum 4 added 15:05:36 agenda+ security considerations 15:05:38 agendum 5 added 15:05:42 agenda+ issue-whichlangs 15:05:44 agendum 6 added 15:05:46 agenda+ issue-http-header-links 15:05:48 agendum 7 added 15:05:50 agenda+ GRDDL Spec: pending editorial work 15:05:52 agendum 8 added 15:05:54 agenda+ Advocating 15:05:58 agendum 9 added 15:06:00 agenda+ Primer Document: Last Call? 15:06:02 agendum 10 added 15:06:02 FabienG has joined #grddl-wg 15:06:08 agenda+ Use-Case Document: 15:06:10 agendum 11 added 15:06:12 agenda+ Test Cases 15:06:18 agendum 12 added 15:06:20 done reading agenda, DanC 15:06:32 +DanC 15:06:35 Zakim, aacc is HarryH 15:06:35 +HarryH; got it 15:06:41 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Apr/0001 15:06:42 Zakim, ??P6 is me 15:06:42 +jjc; got it 15:06:42 Zakim, aaaa is me 15:06:43 +john-l; got it 15:06:51 Zakim, aaaa is Chime 15:06:51 sorry, HarryH, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa' 15:06:59 + +049238aadd 15:07:03 Zakim, aaaa is john-l 15:07:03 sorry, HarryH, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa' 15:07:20 Zakim, +1.216.445.aaaa is JohnL 15:07:20 sorry, DanC, I do not recognize a party named '+1.216.445.aaaa' 15:07:26 Zakim, who's on the phone? 15:07:26 On the phone I see john-l, +1.703.956.aabb, jjc, HarryH, Chimezie_Ogbuji, DanC, FabienG 15:07:38 Zakim, take up item 1 15:07:38 agendum 1. "Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2007-04-04T11:00-0400" taken up 15:07:38 Zakim, aabb is rreck 15:07:41 +rreck; got it 15:07:47 Zakim, who's on the phone 15:07:47 I don't understand 'who's on the phone', HarryH 15:07:54 Zakim, who's on the phone? 15:07:54 On the phone I see john-l, rreck, jjc, HarryH, Chimezie_Ogbuji, DanC, FabienG 15:08:27 +[IPcaller] 15:08:35 Zakim, IPcaller is me 15:08:35 +Simone; got it 15:08:58 Scribe: john-l 15:09:18 regrets: BrianS, IanD 15:09:33 # ACTION: jjc [DONE] to correct the minutes from 21 March 2007 to get full list of attendees. 15:09:39 ACTION: jjc [DONE] to correct the minutes from 21 March 2007 to get full list of attendees. 15:10:00 PROPOSED: to approve GRDDL WG Weekly -- 21 March 2007 as a true record 15:10:11 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Mar/att-0191/21-grddl-wg-minutes.html 15:10:26 RESOLVED: approved GRDDL WG Weekly -- 21 March 2007 as a true record 15:10:37 PROPOSED: to approve GRDDL WG Weekly -- 28 March 2007 as a true record 15:10:53 ACTION: jjc to produce EARL for his implementation, and then sort out multiple test passing in his EARL. [CONTINUES] 15:11:21 chimezie has joined #grddl-wg 15:11:40 PROPOSED: to meet again Wed, 11 April 11:00-0500. scribe volunteer? 15:11:49 Zakim, pick a scribe 15:11:49 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Simone 15:11:54 RESOLVED: to approve http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Mar/att-0193/28-grddl-wg-minutes.html as ammended 15:12:02 Zakim, pick a scribe 15:12:02 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Chimezie_Ogbuji 15:12:18 Zakim, next item 15:12:18 agendum 2. "Patent Policy" taken up 15:12:30 RESOLVED: to meet again 11 April 11:00-0500, Chime to scribe 15:12:51 HarryH: What's the status on dealing with the two stragglers? 15:14:00 http://www.w3.org/2004/01/pp-impl/39407/exclude 15:14:39 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/39407/grddlexcl/ 15:15:46 DanC: How long do we have to wait if they don't answer? 15:16:09 HarryH: I thought that extended to November. 15:16:27 25 Aug 15:16:27 DanC: That's a long time to wait. 15:16:39 HarryH: Keep on harassing them? 15:17:16 HarryH: We gave it a good try, and they haven't been attending meetings. 15:17:40 ACTION: HarryH to send another e-mail to Citigroup, Samsung, Ian Jacobs, and Steve over patent exclusions. 15:17:43 Zakim, next item 15:17:43 agendum 3. "GRDDL Spec: Last Call comments due 30 March 2007" taken up 15:18:15 HarryH: Note, this means the deadline for last call comments has passed. 15:18:28 DanC: We now have an excuse if we want to ignore huge comments. 15:18:33 Zakim, next item 15:18:33 agendum 3 was just opened, HarryH 15:21:49 chimezie: Oracle has a forum for discussing community issues such as this. 15:22:01 DanC: What about the RDFa community? 15:22:20 Oracle semantic technology forum (lots of SPARQL/RDF/GRDDL?) conversation, they are responsive there: http://forums.oracle.com/forums/forum.jspa?forumID=269&start=0 15:22:20 HarryH: Had some discussion with Ben Adida about hGRDDL. 15:23:48 that's a weird phone effect 15:24:17 DanC: We are really on hold until we hear back from the RDFa working group. 15:24:17 ACTION: HarryH to SemWeb Deployment Group and ask for explicit comments or explicit "no comments" 15:25:33 (looking at http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/ ... ) 15:25:38 FabienG: As far as I know, the Deployment Group is not closely tracking GRDDL. 15:26:34 ACTION DanC: ask that a GRDDL transformation for RDFa go in the issues list http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/open 15:26:41 Zakim, next item 15:26:41 agendum 4. "multiple values in @rel" taken up 15:27:06 HarryH: What's the question here? 15:27:47 DanC: Are implementations correct based on current spec? 15:28:07 DanC: If this is going to be a technical change, then we may need another last call. 15:29:07 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/pendinglist#spaces-in-rel 15:29:12 (eek! http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests says it's a W3C working draft. pls take the WD icon off, Chime) 15:29:39 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/spaces-in-rel.html 15:31:30 ACTION DanC: revise "transformation" rule to be clear about spaces, multiple values 15:32:43 Zakim, next item 15:32:43 agendum 5. "security considerations" taken up 15:34:09 DanC: Need to harass ERH to ensure that the comment is properly addressed. 15:34:58 jjc: The message was sent to him on the 30th of March. 15:34:59 ACTION: jjc [CONTINUES] to update Elliotte with the fact that the tests that address his concerns are in pending. 15:35:40 Zakim, next item 15:35:41 agendum 6. "issue-whichlangs" taken up 15:36:19 Zakim, next item 15:36:19 agendum 6 was just opened, HarryH 15:38:01 chimezie: Stefano was happy with the possibility of adding text explaining how XSLT's media type could be used to indicate the output language. 15:38:10 [[[ 15:38:13 The Working Group is considering what modifications to the specification 15:38:14 (if any) can further highlight/clarify this additional mechanism. 15:38:15 ]]] 15:38:37 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-comments/2007JanMar/0079 15:39:05 esp 6) clarifying use of turtle/N3 15:39:21 good; that's already on my todo list 15:39:42 Zakim, next iem 15:39:42 I don't understand 'next iem', HarryH 15:39:50 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/pendinglist#unknown-media-type 15:40:41 Zakim, next item 15:40:41 agendum 7. "issue-http-header-links" taken up 15:40:46 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/unknown-media-type.xsl 15:41:16 " media-type="x-no-such-type/x-no-such-subtype"/ 15:41:46 I'm moderately inclined to withdraw Ian's action re http-header-links. or punt to lazyweb 15:42:24 Zakim, next item 15:42:24 agendum 8. "GRDDL Spec: pending editorial work" taken up 15:43:18 DanC: Working on JJC's comments 15:43:27 ACTION: chimezie remove WD style from 'editors draft' 15:44:38 ACTION: DanC to respond to Tony Hammond [CONTINUES] 15:46:22 DanC: stuff I've recognized as a TODO goes into pink text 15:46:48 Zakim, open item 11 15:46:50 agendum 11. "Use-Case Document:" taken up 15:48:00 1.84 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/doc43/scenario-gallery.htm 15:48:15 good: "This document is [not yet] a Working Group Note" 15:52:32 ACTION: FabienG (After publication on April 6th) to announce to semweb@w3.org and microformats community. 15:52:51 note - friday is holiday in some countries, as is Monday 15:53:32 Zakim, open item 9 15:53:32 agendum 9. "Advocating" taken up 15:53:47 Zakim, open item 10 15:53:47 agendum 10. "Primer Document: Last Call?" taken up 15:55:18 HarryH: ... discusses http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Apr/0006.html 15:55:37 chimezie: Do we need a better example? 15:55:50 HarryH: The current example shows conversion, but isn't strongly motivating. 15:56:15 jjc, chimezie: Prefer indication example. 15:57:11 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Mar/0126.html 15:57:44 chimezie: Putting the "life and death" example into actual practice would raise a number of questions. 15:58:03 "Below is a somewhat contrived example" 15:58:06 (I'm curious whether the examples in the primer are also in our test suite.) 15:58:12 But if it's not too contrived...let's do it. 15:58:19 ACTION: HarryH to wrap indication example in. 15:58:56 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/doc29/rdf-syntaxes.png 15:59:26 Dan notes the continued question about Primer Last Call 16:00:57 DanC: Now that we have a diagram, the editor needs to think about incorporating it. 16:01:17 (I don't need turtle to be ratified for it to be useful in a primer) 16:01:47 (turtle is used in a number of semweb best practice notes) 16:02:04 ACTION: HarryH check the diagram in in Health Care example, where we first introduce turtle. 16:02:40 Harry, is this done? ACTION: HarryH to check any primer fixes in, Murray and Jeremy to review once finished. 16:02:42 -HarryH 16:02:47 and this? ACTION: HarryH to make sure library transforms are linked from Primer. 16:02:55 It's not done because of questions about OWL use-case. 16:02:58 ok 16:02:59 So Continue it. 16:03:07 ACTION: HarryH to check any primer fixes in, Murray and Jeremy to review once finished. [CONTINUES] 16:03:08 However, the guidance I got today should let me finish it next week. 16:03:19 ACTION: HarryH to make sure library transforms are linked from Primer. [CONTINUES] 16:03:26 Zakim, close this item 16:03:26 agendum 10 closed 16:03:27 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 16:03:31 8. GRDDL Spec: pending editorial work 16:03:36 Zakim, close item 8 16:03:37 agendum 8, GRDDL Spec: pending editorial work, closed 16:03:41 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 16:03:47 9. Advocating 16:03:52 Zakim, take up item 9 16:04:02 agendum 9. "Advocating" taken up 16:04:34 ACTION: Chime to get Semantic Tech 2007 to use GRDDL+microformats for their calendar. [CONTINUES] 16:04:45 harry, still interested to do ACTION: HarryH to contact WWW2007 over microformats+GRDDL for their calendar. ? 16:05:35 Wait a sec...now in lunch meeting :) 16:05:50 Yes, I am interested via WWW2007 tutorial. 16:06:08 However, might try to pass it off to BrianS since he seems to be 1) good at these things 2) have some spare cycles. 16:06:20 Just continue it and I'll e-mail BrianS about his schedule. 16:06:44 ACTION: HarryH to contact WWW2007 over microformats+GRDDL for their calendar. [CONTINUES] 16:07:13 jjc: one could make one profile for all microformats, or for all the ones that we have XSLT for 16:07:29 DanC: yes, that just needs a maintainer to set/meet expecataions. 16:07:47 s/expecataions/expectations/ 16:08:23 ACTION: BrianS to contact RyanKing about adding GRDDL profile for hCal/hCard to Javascripot microformat generator. [CONTINUES] 16:08:28 I'd like to chat more with Brian about that 16:08:37 Zakim, close this item 16:08:37 agendum 9 closed 16:08:38 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 16:08:39 11. Use-Case Document: 16:08:45 Zakim, close item 1 16:08:45 agendum 1, Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2007-04-04T11:00-0400, closed 16:08:46 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 16:08:46 Zakim, close item 11 16:08:48 11. Use-Case Document: 16:08:49 agendum 11, Use-Case Document:, closed 16:08:51 I see 1 item remaining on the agenda: 16:08:52 12. Test Cases 16:08:59 Zakim, next item 16:08:59 agendum 12. "Test Cases" taken up 16:09:46 ACTION: Chime to announce to semantic-web@w3.org that GRDDL Test Cases is a WD. [DONE] 16:10:37 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2007Mar/0146.html 16:10:57 ACTION: jjc to modify #loopx to relate to discussion about SHOULD [DONE] 16:11:13 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2007Mar/0146.html 16:11:48 jjc: Several tests need to be moved into the official manifests. 16:12:58 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/pendinglist#loopx 16:13:43 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests.html#loopx (in editorial draft) 16:14:15 http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl-tests/#loopx 16:14:33 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests#loopx 16:16:17 chimezie: URIs are becoming very difficult to manage. 16:16:20 DanC: example? 16:16:37 http://chatlogs.planetrdf.com/swig/2007-04-04.html#T13-16-39 16:17:03 http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl-tests/#hcard1 16:17:14 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/#atomttl1 16:17:42 DanC: And what's the issue with those? 16:17:43 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests#hcard1 16:17:46 #hcard1 is a 'networked' test, #attomttl1 is 'local' (and that's why its hardwired to the repository) 16:17:56 -rreck 16:17:57 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests#atomttl1 16:19:09 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/ is the base for all the test material 16:19:12 (networked or otherwise) 16:23:29 chimezie: Using .../td/ leads one to the editor's draft, not the official version. 16:23:43 chimezie: Just point to the official version from the .../td/ location? 16:24:33 jjc: aboutTests.xsl used to output all relative URIs. 16:25:12 ... Networked tests should be referenced with an "absolute" URI. 16:27:09 PROPOSED: that each test have a URI of the form http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests#LOCALNAME ... 16:27:24 +1 16:28:21 +1 16:28:41 RESOLVED: that each test have a URI of the form http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests#LOCALNAME 16:30:06 . ACTION who: migrate testlist1,2,3 tests 16:30:48 jjc: Referenced from the web, all the tests end up being networked tests, but when used locally, some can be referenced using relative references with no functional change. 16:31:15 ... This is an implementation detail of producing the RDF manifests from the HTML versions. 16:32:14 The WG tests have input from http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td and output from the same. 16:32:32 Implementors may have local copies which they can access in a cache like mechanism 16:32:52 The network tests are not suited for such a local cache due to various considerations 16:33:19 However, the implementors use of a local cache is their decision, and not a topic for WG discussion or decision 16:35:26 chimezie: Batch approval for URI aliasing should be easy to do. 16:36:20 chimezie: Sufficient to just put in text aliasing the text? 16:36:27 DanC: Just need to update the approval date. 16:37:05 . ACTION chime: migrate testlist1,2,3, pending tests, noting previously approved tests 16:37:20 ACTION chime: migrate testlist1,2,3, pending tests, noting previously approved tests 16:37:46 (oops! 7 minutes over) 16:38:34 jjc notes #loopx is overused 16:38:48 [DONE] ACTION: jjcto manufacture .htaccess file for test cases using 301 "Moved Permanently" and e-mail Jean Gui 16:38:58 ACTION: Chime to fix the relative URL problem [CONTINUES] 16:39:06 [DONE] ACTION: jjc to edit library file to remove .xsls 16:39:22 ACTION: HarryH to run EARL-> HTML table generator [CONTINUES] 16:39:50 swapping in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/test_results ... 16:40:31 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/earlsum.py has the old EARL namespace 16:41:40 DanC: When can we unleash testers to generate EARL? 16:41:54 DanC: Should wait until the dust settles from actions recorded today 16:42:15 ACTION Chime: produce EARL to report about GRDDL.py 16:43:09 (I'm swapping in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/sched7 ... ) 16:44:30 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Mar/0170.html 16:45:09 (http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/sched7 has the WG making a go-to-CR decision 11 Apr. looks unlikely. I'm inclined to mark sched7 obsolete, but somebody should notify the semweb cg, and I'm trying not to take actions except editing actions. Harry?) 16:46:17 I can notify SemWeb CG next time they meet... 16:46:40 ACTION HarryH: note that the GRDDL WG is unlikely to decide to go to CR by 11 Apr as earlier predicted. 16:46:53 s/note/notify the semweb-cg/ 16:47:06 Purposes of tests is 1) provide WG with evidence to get to PR 2) provide implementors with evidence that they have implemented GRDDL 16:47:53 If we have mechanisms to automate the rule that alternative tests are tests that have the same input, then these objectives may be easier 16:48:15 I believe my patch helps with this if you are using testft.py. 16:48:25 However, the text above, is sufficient for 1) and 2) and so given time pressure, may be the right choice 16:48:37 As I've pointed out, you can also use arbitrary RDF tools to do this given the EARL output. 16:49:29 ADJOURN. 16:49:48 RRSAgent, please generate the minutes 16:49:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-grddl-wg-minutes.html john-l 16:49:55 Thank you, RRSAgent. 16:50:36 RRSAgent, please make the minutes world-readable. 16:50:36 I'm logging. I don't understand 'please make the minutes world-readable.', john-l. Try /msg RRSAgent help 16:52:13 Ok, how do I ask RRSAgent to open up the permissions on the minutes? 16:53:05 RRSAgent, please make the minutes world-readable 16:53:05 I'm logging. I don't understand 'please make the minutes world-readable', john-l. Try /msg RRSAgent help 16:54:20 RRSAgent, please make these logs world-visible 16:54:23 w00t 16:55:52 Interesting; RRSAgent missed the Present group again. 16:57:42 -jjc 16:57:43 -Chimezie_Ogbuji 16:57:43 -john-l 16:57:57 -Simone 16:58:00 -FabienG 16:58:10 Simone has left #GRDDL-WG 16:58:11 jjc has left #grddl-wg 17:03:00 disconnecting the lone participant, DanC, in SW_GRDDL()11:00AM 17:03:02 SW_GRDDL()11:00AM has ended 17:03:04 Attendees were +1.216.445.aaaa, +1.703.956.aabb, +1.919.457.aacc, Chimezie_Ogbuji, DanC, HarryH, jjc, john-l, +049238aadd, FabienG, rreck, Simone 17:21:09 RRSAgent, make logs world-access 17:21:14 RRSAgent, draft minutes 17:21:14 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/04-grddl-wg-minutes.html DanC 17:22:58 oops; I see john-l already did that stuff.