15:01:37 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #swd
15:01:37 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-swd-irc
15:01:40 <Zakim> +??P27
15:01:46 <Zakim> +??P29
15:01:50 <Zakim> +Ralph
15:02:02 <RalphS> Meeting: SemWeb Deployment WG
15:02:05 <JonP> zakim, Jon_Phipps is me
15:02:05 <Zakim> +JonP; got it
15:02:07 <RalphS> Chair: Guus
15:02:19 <RalphS> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Apr/0001.html
15:02:50 <RalphS> zakim, mute ??p27
15:02:50 <Zakim> ??P27 should now be muted
15:02:55 <RalphS> zakim, unmute ??p27
15:02:55 <Zakim> ??P27 should no longer be muted
15:03:01 <RalphS> zakim, ??p27 is Alistair
15:03:01 <Zakim> +Alistair; got it
15:03:16 <RalphS> zakim, ??p29 is Daniel
15:03:16 <Zakim> +Daniel; got it
15:03:27 <RalphS> zakim, nick dlrubin is daniel
15:03:27 <Zakim> ok, RalphS, I now associate dlrubin with Daniel
15:03:46 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html previous 2007-03-20
15:03:52 <RalphS> rrsagent, please make record public
15:04:05 <dlrubin> scribnick dlrubin
15:04:25 <dlrubin> scribenick: dlrubin
15:05:07 <RalphS> Ralph: apologies for not being on irc at the start of last week's aborted meeting to explain the problem with the bridge
15:05:31 <Gus> regret: Siegfried Handaschuh
15:05:38 <RalphS> Siggi Handschuh
15:05:53 <dlrubin> topic: admin
15:05:53 <RalphS> s/Handa/Hand/
15:06:21 <dlrubin> No minutes from last tcon, as there were technical problems
15:06:30 <dlrubin>   PROPOSED to accept minutes of 20 March telecon:
15:06:30 <dlrubin>   http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html
15:06:34 <mhausenblas> +1
15:06:50 <dlrubin> Accepted without objection
15:07:20 <dlrubin> Next tcon: Tom and Guus not available, so meeting next week will be cancelled
15:07:38 <dlrubin> Next meeting: Apr 17
15:08:37 <dlrubin> Spring F2F: Main item for discussion is SKOS, RDFa
15:09:23 <dlrubin> All: Respond to poll regarding possible face-to-face meeting
15:09:23 <dlrubin> in June - http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/39408/f2f2poll1/
15:09:47 <dlrubin>  Respond to poll regarding possible face-to-face meeting
15:09:47 <dlrubin> in June - http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/39408/f2f2poll1/
15:10:47 <berrueta> berrueta has joined #swd
15:10:47 <dlrubin> There is a problem with the June date for most people
15:11:44 <Zakim> +josema
15:11:50 <berrueta> zakim, josema is me
15:11:50 <Zakim> +berrueta; got it
15:13:15 <dlrubin> We likely need to postpone the meeting to Sept
15:13:23 <dlrubin> No F2F in June
15:14:01 <dlrubin> Another possibility is to meet at a meeting, like ISWC, but that is in Nov
15:14:27 <mhausenblas> -> http://ontoworld.org/wiki/Upcoming_events possible events
15:16:26 <dlrubin> Topic: vocabulary management
15:16:45 <dlrubin> Elisa: intent is to ogranize material and find out where people can contribute ideas
15:17:15 <dlrubin> ...Learn how people are dealing with this today, and what people are doing (version management, etc)
15:17:23 <dlrubin> Guus: Need to document current practices
15:18:00 <dlrubin> Elisa: By next week will have an outline for people to contribute to
15:18:24 <dlrubin> Guus: we need to invite contributions to particular practices.
15:18:33 <dlrubin> ...it would be useful to have overview of current practices
15:19:11 <dlrubin> Elisa: There is additional capability...last week at OMG meeting, discussed possibility of OMG for hosting portal for ontologies that OMG people depend on, similar to bioportal
15:19:53 <dlrubin> ...there are RFPs for ontologies in specific domains, eg, insurance, request for ontology for vocabulary in this domain
15:20:05 <dlrubin> ...we hope to expand to cover insurance standards 
15:20:21 <dlrubin> ...we need portal for publicizing these things, to follow best practices in vocabulary;
15:20:32 <dlrubin> ...Elisa writing document for this
15:20:47 <dlrubin> ...we may get contributions from OMG for vocabuarly management
15:20:54 <dlrubin> Guus: any link to provide?
15:21:08 <dlrubin> Elisa: not yet. As soon as there is a draft, will send link
15:21:28 <dlrubin> ...we can leverage work on this note and on getting things related to OMG together.
15:21:42 <dlrubin> ...There is much interest in OMG in doing this.
15:22:02 <dlrubin> ...The "O" word is now becoming in vogue.
15:23:24 <dlrubin> ACTION: Elisa to provide outline of work to be done by Apr 17
15:23:32 <dlrubin> topic: SKOS
15:23:54 <dlrubin> DONE: Elisa to summarize state of Vocabulary Management draft, add comments, and coordinate work [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-minutes.html#action06]
15:24:01 <Zakim> -Elisa_Kendall
15:24:26 <RalphS> Topic: SKOS
15:24:30 <RalphS> scribenick: ralphs
15:24:42 <RalphS> Daniel: any further comments on the draft use cases?
15:25:41 <Simone> Simone has joined #SWD
15:26:08 <dlrubin> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/UCRMaterial?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ucr-20070306.html
15:26:41 <RalphS> ^ SKOS Use Cases and Requirements
15:26:41 <RalphS> W3C Editors' Draft 06 March 2007
15:26:53 <RalphS> Daniel: this editors' draft is ready for review now
15:27:19 <RalphS> ... there's a list of SKOS requirements at the bottom
15:27:37 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/UCRMaterial?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ucr-20070306.html#Accepted "Accepted Requirements"
15:28:08 <RalphS> Alistair: weren't Elisa and Sean agreeing to review this?
15:28:21 <RalphS> ... each has already sent a (partial) review
15:29:12 <RalphS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Mar/0131 [SKOS] Review of SKOS Use Cases and Requirements [Elisa]
15:29:35 <RalphS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Mar/0128 Comments on Use Case document [Sean]
15:29:55 <RalphS> Guus: the editors are expected to look at the reviews and respond to them
15:30:16 <RalphS> ... based on the reviews, you send a message to the WG summarizing the result and proposing to publish
15:30:25 <Zakim> +??P5
15:30:38 <RalphS> Alistair: you don't have to agree with everything the reviewers propose, just justify your decision
15:30:43 <Simone> Zakim, ??P5 is Simone
15:30:43 <Zakim> +Simone; got it
15:31:35 <RalphS> Daniel: each editor could answer the review comments on the use cases they contributed
15:32:04 <RalphS> Guus: however the editors decide to divide the task of responding to the reviews will be fine
15:32:33 <RalphS> ... the decision to publish should be determined on the basis of having sufficient new material to be useful to the Public
15:32:47 <RalphS> Jon: there have been a couple of new use cases submitted in the past couple of weeks
15:33:13 <RalphS> ... they might provide some additional requirements after closer inspection
15:33:37 <RalphS> Guus: I suggest not holding the first WD
15:34:20 <aliman> +1 on publish quickly, lots of useful information
15:34:21 <RalphS> ... let's get our candidate requirements list published quickly
15:34:51 <RalphS> ... it's OK to have to-dos in the document
15:35:53 <RalphS> ... if you respond to a review citing material that is already in the document, please give a precise citation; sometimes you discover when looking for the citation that something you thought was in the document really isn't there
15:36:52 <RalphS> ACTION: Antoine, Jon, Daniel respond to the SKOS Use Case reviews, target a decision to publish on 17 April
15:37:18 <RalphS> ACTION: Alan to write up the preferredLabel modelling issue [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action01]
15:37:19 <RalphS> -- continues
15:37:35 <RalphS> ACTION: Alan to write down the general documentation requirements, in particular to those that are related to literal values, and how to represent that in skos [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action09]
15:37:38 <RalphS> -- continues
15:37:58 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Guus ping Antoine regarding status of SKOS Use Cases editors' draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html#action10]
15:38:28 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Elisa and Sean to review SKOS editor's draft http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/UCRMaterial?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ucr-20070306.html by 27 March [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html#action03]
15:38:42 <RalphS> ACTION: Guus revise his ISSUE-26 proposal to account for other options [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html#action07]
15:38:43 <RalphS> -- continues
15:39:02 <RalphS> Alistair: I think it would be helpful if Guus would propose one or two detailed solutions
15:39:47 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/33 ISSUE 33 GroupingConstructs
15:40:28 <RalphS> Guus: do you have an idea for how to resolve issue 33?
15:41:44 <RalphS> Alistair: we need a vocabulary for representing grouping constructs.  Currently that is skos:Collection. We need to establish a practice for how to say something is a member of this grouping construct.
15:41:52 <RalphS> Guus: is this like skos:Concept?
15:41:56 <RalphS> Alistair: no, different
15:42:39 <RalphS> ... milk and cowsMilk related by broader/narrower but both of these are related to [animal products] in some other way
15:42:50 <RalphS> ... could be broader/narrower or associative relationship
15:43:18 <RalphS> ... want to allow people to layer grouping constructs and generate an algorithm for producing hierarchical displays
15:43:35 <RalphS> ... see -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SkosDesign/GroupingConstructs Grouping Constructs Wikit
15:44:15 <RalphS> Guus: I was surprised by the BOOKS / Operations example
15:44:28 <RalphS> ... I am only accustomed to the use of Collections in the way the Aircraft example works
15:44:48 <RalphS> Alistair: ISO 723 permits the use of node labels to introduce new facets
15:44:56 <RalphS> ... but they're clear that these are not necessarily narrower
15:45:18 <RalphS> ... ANSI Z39.19 has a similar example to the ISO 2788 Operations example
15:45:26 <RalphS> ... so this is in all three of the major thesaurus standards
15:45:36 <RalphS> ... however, I've not actually seen it used
15:46:13 <RalphS> Guus: it is not harmful to leave Collection in there
15:46:45 <RalphS> Alistair: but there is a contradiction; currently the document says that Collections are not Concepts but later it uses them in narrower/broader relations
15:46:53 <RalphS> Jon: I agree -- a Collection should not be a Concept
15:47:12 <RalphS> Alistair: the thesaurus standards do talk about node labels in a very different way
15:47:35 <RalphS> ... there is a simpler algorithm to determine where node labels "ought" to appear
15:47:59 <RalphS> ... I feel there should be a vocabulary in SKOS to represent these grouping things and that should not be skos:Concept
15:48:38 <RalphS> ... there's an unfortunate naming collision; in DublinCore, "Collection" refers to a library of documents and in RDF Core "Collection" is a very specific notion
15:49:23 <RalphS> Guus: milk & cows mail case requires saying cows milk is part of the collection "milk from animals" then also say cows milk is narrower than milk
15:49:32 <RalphS> Alistair: simpler than what Guus describes
15:49:47 <RalphS> ... can say "if all members of a Collection are narrower then use the node label"
15:50:05 <RalphS> Jon: what is the value of Collections over having a named type that makes something appear
15:50:33 <RalphS> ... e.g. by-payload is just a relationship between aircraft types and payload types
15:50:42 <RalphS> Alistair: we want a generic way to represent this pattern
15:51:03 <RalphS> Guus: consider 'chairs' in AAT
15:51:11 <RalphS> ... need several ways to represent the groupings
15:51:32 <RalphS> Alistair: and you want to represent the groupings without requiring additional information to generate the transformation
15:51:46 <RalphS> ... you don't want someone to have to disambiguate each type of relation
15:51:54 <RalphS> Jon: wouldn't it be better to disambiguate?
15:52:17 <RalphS> Alistair: it might be more useful but we want SKOS to be a target for such transformations
15:52:36 <RalphS> Guus: could define subproperties of broader/narrower that imply these Collections
15:52:46 <RalphS> ... seems we have identified two alternatives
15:53:15 <RalphS> ACTION Alistair: write up two alternatives for representing Collections
15:53:18 <dlrubin> scribenick: dlrubin
15:53:39 <dlrubin> topic: recipies
15:53:51 <dlrubin> Ralph propose resolution to Recipe issue 1.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14] --continues
15:54:36 <dlrubin> action: Ralph propose resolution to Recipe issue 1.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14] --continues
15:55:14 <dlrubin> Jon: not progress on documents
15:55:34 <dlrubin> topic: RDFa - RDFa Overview document http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/
15:56:00 <dlrubin> Michael: We're working on the test cases.
15:56:12 <dlrubin> ...Had discussion of XHTML to embed RDFa
15:56:27 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2007/04/02-rdfa-minutes.html#item03 XHTML 1.1 Module for RDFa discussion
15:56:56 <dlrubin> Ralph: Progress in getting a DTD to validate HTML + RDFa documents
15:57:20 <dlrubin> Guus: Any progress on Ben's publishing document on mailing lists?
15:57:26 <dlrubin> Michael: still pending
15:57:42 <RalphS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Apr/0004.html Ben's Action progress report
15:58:15 <dlrubin> action: Ben make sure http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/scenarios/20070305/ is pubrules compliant and hand to Ralph [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html#action13] --done
15:59:09 <dlrubin> Ralph: Name change in HTML working groups
15:59:24 <dlrubin> ...on HTML side, the WG on joint task force is XHTML2 WG
15:59:39 <dlrubin> ...We should update name of this WG in necessary places.
15:59:52 <dlrubin> ...They are still in startup phase; no chairs appointed yet
16:00:18 <dlrubin> There are 2 WG's that have HTML in their name. The XHTML2 WG is associated with RDFa
16:00:31 <dlrubin> ...the second WG is the "HTML WG"
16:00:40 <dlrubin> Guus: any chance to link to this wg?
16:01:05 <dlrubin> Ralph: They are directed to do document validation that requires single DTDs. Their charter asks them to look at that
16:01:08 <mhausenblas> -> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/ HTML WG
16:01:13 <dlrubin> ...They are also in the early formation process
16:01:35 <dlrubin> ...They have made it clear they have no resources to look at RDFa
16:01:46 <dlrubin> ...They are directed to consider the validation issue
16:02:08 <Zakim> -Daniel
16:02:20 <RalphS> scribenick: ralphs
16:02:32 <RalphS> Ralph: Michael and Wing are making good progress on RDFa test cases
16:02:37 <Zakim> -Alistair
16:02:57 <Zakim> -Simone
16:02:59 <Zakim> -mhausenblas
16:03:00 <RalphS> [adjourned]
16:03:03 <Zakim> -Ralph
16:03:05 <Zakim> -berrueta
16:03:14 <Gus> zakim, who is here?
16:03:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see [VrijeUni], JonP
16:03:15 <Zakim> On IRC I see Simone, berrueta, RRSAgent, dlrubin, JonP, Gus, Zakim, RalphS
16:03:27 <RalphS> ACTION: Ben to send mail to Semantic Web and HTML mailing lists publicizing and soliciting comments on RDFa Primer and RDFa Use Cases work [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html#action14]
16:03:30 <RalphS> -- continues
16:03:38 <RalphS> rrsagent, please draft minutes
16:03:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-swd-minutes.html RalphS
16:04:07 <RalphS> zakim, list attendees
16:04:07 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been [VrijeUni], Elisa_Kendall, mhausenblas, Ralph, JonP, Alistair, Daniel, berrueta, Simone
16:05:22 <Zakim> -[VrijeUni]
16:05:23 <Zakim> -JonP
16:06:53 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Elisa to summarize state of Vocabulary Management draft, add comments, and coordinate work [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-minutes.html#action06]
16:07:12 <RalphS> rrsagent, please draft minutes
16:07:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-swd-minutes.html RalphS
16:07:42 <RalphS> rrsagent, bye
16:07:42 <RRSAgent> I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-swd-actions.rdf :
16:07:42 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Elisa to provide outline of work to be done by Apr 17 [1]
16:07:42 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-swd-irc#T15-23-24
16:07:42 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Antoine, Jon, Daniel respond to the SKOS Use Case reviews, target a decision to publish on 17 April [2]
16:07:42 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-swd-irc#T15-36-52
16:07:42 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Alan to write up the preferredLabel modelling issue [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action01] [3]
16:07:42 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-swd-irc#T15-37-18
16:07:42 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Alan to write down the general documentation requirements, in particular to those that are related to literal values, and how to represent that in skos [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action09] [4]
16:07:42 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-swd-irc#T15-37-35
16:07:42 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Guus revise his ISSUE-26 proposal to account for other options [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html#action07] [5]
16:07:42 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-swd-irc#T15-38-42
16:07:42 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Alistair to write up two alternatives for representing Collections [6]
16:07:42 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-swd-irc#T15-53-15
16:07:42 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to Recipe issue 1.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14] --continues [7]
16:07:42 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-swd-irc#T15-54-36
16:07:42 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben make sure http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/scenarios/20070305/ is pubrules compliant and hand to Ralph [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html#action13] --done [8]
16:07:42 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-swd-irc#T15-58-15
16:07:42 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to send mail to Semantic Web and HTML mailing lists publicizing and soliciting comments on RDFa Primer and RDFa Use Cases work [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html#action14] [9]
16:07:42 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-swd-irc#T16-03-27
16:08:04 <Zakim> SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended
16:08:05 <Zakim> Attendees were [VrijeUni], Elisa_Kendall, mhausenblas, Ralph, JonP, Alistair, Daniel, berrueta, Simone