IRC log of bpwg on 2007-04-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

07:17:01 [RRSAgent]

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07:17:01 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-irc

07:17:13 [dom]

Meeting: mobileOK reference implementation F2F in Dublin, day 2

07:17:15 [dom]

Chair: Sean

07:17:23 [dom]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobileok-checker/2007Mar/0050.html

07:17:35 [dom]

RRSAgent, make log public

07:17:53 [dom]

Present: Ruadhan, Ronan, Sean, Jo, Dom

07:18:04 [dom]

Regrets: Roland, Abel, Nacho, Miguel

07:18:28 [dom]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

07:18:28 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-minutes.html dom

07:23:07 [jo]

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08:00:15 [dom]

Present+ Shadi

08:02:20 [shadi]

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08:05:21 [srowen]

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08:05:54 [dom]

Topic: review of tests and information they need

08:22:25 [dom]

[jo lists out the information we may need to record as part of the audit trail]

08:30:41 [trackbot]

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08:30:46 [trackbot]

Tracking ISSUEs and ACTIONs from http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/

08:51:53 [dom]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

08:51:53 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-minutes.html dom

09:44:22 [jo]

noted that Dom disagrees that we are a robot so we do not look at robots.txt

09:45:04 [dom]

-> http://www.robotstxt.org/wc/faq.html#what "A robot is a program that automatically traverses the Web's hypertext structure by retrieving a document, and recursively retrieving all documents that are referenced."

09:45:15 [dom]

(and we don't do recursive retrieving)

09:45:21 [jo]

it is not necessary to add a referrer field

09:47:00 [dom]

-> http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec5.html#sec5 HTTP Request

09:47:12 [jo]

s/referrer/referer[sic]

09:54:16 [jo]

noted that the extra request(s) probably HEAD will suffice need to be made for caching 'if-none-match' etc.

10:11:36 [jo]

open questions on Tidy - character encoding, defaulting, normalisation, etc. Need to think abut what we want here

10:13:27 [dom]

-> http://home.ccil.org/~cowan/XML/tagsoup/tagsoup.pdf Sides-based presentation of TagSoup

10:29:44 [dom]

-> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/css-validator/ CSS Validator source code

10:52:35 [jo]

Noted that invalid certificates (expired, unrecognised authority) warn

10:55:51 [dom]

ACTION-52?

10:57:40 [trackbot]

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10:57:46 [trackbot]

Tracking ISSUEs and ACTIONs from http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/

11:03:47 [dom]

ACTION-52?

11:08:41 [trackbot]

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11:08:47 [trackbot]

Tracking ISSUEs and ACTIONs from http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/

11:22:41 [trackbot]

trackbot has joined #bpwg

11:22:46 [trackbot]

Tracking ISSUEs and ACTIONs from http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/

11:23:49 [dom]

ACTION-52?

12:26:40 [trackbot]

trackbot has joined #bpwg

12:26:46 [trackbot]

Tracking ISSUEs and ACTIONs from http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/

12:43:48 [dom]

ACTION-52?

12:45:40 [trackbot]

trackbot has joined #bpwg

12:45:46 [trackbot]

Tracking ISSUEs and ACTIONs from http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/

12:49:00 [dom]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

12:49:00 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-minutes.html dom

13:09:26 [dom]

-> http://www.pygtk.org/pygtkmozembed/class-gtkmozembed.html gtkmozembed.MozEmbed

13:19:52 [dom]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobileok-checker/2007Apr/att-0009/Intermediate_Document_Format.svg SVG of the Mindmap resulting of our morning discussions

13:22:11 [dom]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

13:22:11 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-minutes.html dom

13:35:13 [dom]

Topic: review of actions and plans

13:35:35 [dom]

Jo will wrap up the requirements document, including the mind map document

13:35:43 [dom]

Sean will send an updated architecture diagram

13:37:06 [dom]

trackbot, bye

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13:37:23 [Ronan]

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13:37:38 [srowen]

ACTION: Jo to complete a final draft of the requirements statement doc in the next week or two

13:38:00 [srowen]

ACTION: Jo to complete a strawman of the intermediate doc based on mind map in the next week or two (leading to a schema later)

13:38:19 [srowen]

ACTION: Jo to complete a strawman draft of the results document in conjunction with Shadi

13:38:47 [srowen]

Action: srowen to circulate a next draft of architecture / design doc in the next week or so

13:39:34 [srowen]

Action: srowen to update / rewrite code after architecture / design doc has been finalized and begin development soon

13:44:06 [jo]

noted that we ought to look at the JHOVE library

13:44:22 [jo]

Ruadhan observed that we're likely to use them

13:44:47 [jo]

jo wondered if we would use W3C validator or JHOVE for XHTML

13:45:09 [jo]

Dom commented that we'd probably just just whatever comes with Java

13:45:28 [jo]

s/Java/the XML parser we end up using

13:46:57 [jo]

scribenick: Jo

13:47:20 [jo]

ACTION: Sean to contact JHOVE in pursuit of his actions on code over the next couple of weeks

13:50:57 [jo]

Topic: Miscellaneous Summaries

13:51:35 [jo]

Noted that the decision was made to use local copies of DTDs to avoid counterfeiting

13:52:23 [jo]

Dom:plus in general we should use cached copies as much as possible to reduce our retrieval footptint

13:55:27 [jo]

s/ptint/print

13:55:41 [dom]

s/print/pint/

13:55:48 [dom]

s/pint/print/

13:55:54 [srowen]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobileok-checker/2007Mar/0047.html

13:58:32 [jo]

Topic: Review of Architecture

13:58:48 [jo]

[sean discusses general framework]

13:59:18 [jo]

Srowen: Question 1 is to what extent should output also be available as pure Java objects?

14:00:04 [jo]

... it would be nice for any program to use, but would be a lot of development work

14:00:27 [jo]

... possibly restrict this to the results and not expose all the preprocessing as Java objects

14:01:17 [jo]

[no disagreement]

14:01:42 [jo]

topic: Components

14:01:56 [jo]

srowen: Java 5

14:02:07 [jo]

... default Java XML parser?

14:02:14 [jo]

jo: what is it?

14:03:24 [jo]

srowen: not sure may be Xerces

14:03:34 [jo]

dom: doesn't matter there is a common interface

14:03:44 [jo]

srowen: Tag soup

14:04:21 [jo]

jo: noted that we said we needed to study what we mean for tidying more carefully

14:04:48 [jo]

srown: jakarta commons HTTP client

14:05:03 [jo]

jo: does that give access to raw HTTP headers?

14:05:09 [jo]

ruadhan: think so

14:05:24 [jo]

srowen: using JHOVE

14:06:09 [jo]

... also planning to use some kind of CSS parser - implementation of SAC (simple api for CSS)

14:06:31 [jo]

... basic class diagram

14:06:48 [jo]

jo: UML?

14:07:05 [jo]

dom: rough schema of how planning to organise code

14:07:18 [jo]

sro: key classes, key flow

14:07:25 [jo]

jo: threading?

14:07:40 [jo]

sro: yes worth mentioning in this document

14:08:07 [jo]

topic: tidy

14:08:15 [jo]

sro: valid dom is main goal

14:08:28 [jo]

jo: also character encoding tidying too?

14:10:01 [jo]

topic: test harnesses

14:10:14 [jo]

jo: need to discuss how the testing will be carried out

14:11:08 [jo]

sro: yes we need to discuss the approach

14:11:13 [jo]

topic: test documents

14:11:22 [jo]

jo: need to start work on this

14:12:01 [jo]

dom: yes, we need to start documenting expecgted outcomes

14:12:09 [jo]

s/gted/ted

14:12:41 [jo]

ACTION: Dom to start work on gathering test cases and documenting expected outcomes

14:13:43 [jo]

jo: need to create a gap analysis

14:15:29 [jo]

dom: will create a list in CVS of test cases against tests as part of above action

14:16:13 [jo]

sro: architecture document will discuss how tests are to be defined

14:19:19 [jo]

jo: does shadi have a view from EARL on how the expected outcome should be compared with an actual outcome

14:19:42 [jo]

dom: in our case we'd check whether a specific warning is given too

14:20:03 [jo]

... which means we'll have to have specific error codes for each one

14:21:20 [jo]

Jo: we'll need an RDF vocab for this

14:21:30 [jo]

dom: yes but we don't need to be public about it

14:22:19 [dom]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

14:22:19 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-minutes.html dom

14:29:34 [jo]

Topic: Next F2F

14:29:54 [jo]

[following discussion proposed 12 13 June in London]

14:30:29 [jo]

ACTION: Sean to announce to list proposed meeting date and location

14:30:39 [dom]

[thanks dotMobi for hosting this first great meeting!]

14:30:59 [jo]

ACTION: Sean to find out about Google hosting meeting

14:31:44 [jo]

Topic: Thanks to dotMobi

14:31:53 [dom]

Thanks!

14:31:57 [jo]

[noted]

14:32:06 [jo]

Thanks also to Shadi for coming and helping

14:32:38 [jo]

sro: adjourned

14:32:39 [dom]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

14:32:39 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-minutes.html dom

14:32:42 [dom]

RRSAgent, bye

14:32:42 [RRSAgent]

I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-actions.rdf :

14:32:42 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Jo to complete a final draft of the requirements statement doc in the next week or two [1]

14:32:42 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-irc#T13-37-38

14:32:42 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Jo to complete a strawman of the intermediate doc based on mind map in the next week or two (leading to a schema later) [2]

14:32:42 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-irc#T13-38-00

14:32:42 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Jo to complete a strawman draft of the results document in conjunction with Shadi [3]

14:32:42 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-irc#T13-38-19

14:32:42 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: srowen to circulate a next draft of architecture / design doc in the next week or so [4]

14:32:42 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-irc#T13-38-47

14:32:42 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: srowen to update / rewrite code after architecture / design doc has been finalized and begin development soon [5]

14:32:42 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-irc#T13-39-34

14:32:42 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Sean to contact JHOVE in pursuit of his actions on code over the next couple of weeks [6]

14:32:42 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-irc#T13-47-20

14:32:42 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Dom to start work on gathering test cases and documenting expected outcomes [7]

14:32:42 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-irc#T14-12-41

14:32:42 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Sean to announce to list proposed meeting date and location [8]

14:32:42 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-irc#T14-30-29

14:32:42 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Sean to find out about Google hosting meeting [9]

14:32:42 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-irc#T14-30-59