07:17:01 RRSAgent has joined #bpwg 07:17:01 logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-irc 07:17:13 Meeting: mobileOK reference implementation F2F in Dublin, day 2 07:17:15 Chair: Sean 07:17:23 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobileok-checker/2007Mar/0050.html 07:17:35 RRSAgent, make log public 07:17:53 Present: Ruadhan, Ronan, Sean, Jo, Dom 07:18:04 Regrets: Roland, Abel, Nacho, Miguel 07:18:28 RRSAgent, draft minutes 07:18:28 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-minutes.html dom 07:23:07 jo has joined #bpwg 08:00:15 Present+ Shadi 08:02:20 shadi has joined #bpwg 08:05:21 srowen has joined #bpwg 08:05:54 Topic: review of tests and information they need 08:22:25 [jo lists out the information we may need to record as part of the audit trail] 08:30:41 trackbot has joined #bpwg 08:30:46 Tracking ISSUEs and ACTIONs from http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/ 08:51:53 RRSAgent, draft minutes 08:51:53 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-minutes.html dom 09:44:22 noted that Dom disagrees that we are a robot so we do not look at robots.txt 09:45:04 -> http://www.robotstxt.org/wc/faq.html#what "A robot is a program that automatically traverses the Web's hypertext structure by retrieving a document, and recursively retrieving all documents that are referenced." 09:45:15 (and we don't do recursive retrieving) 09:45:21 it is not necessary to add a referrer field 09:47:00 -> http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec5.html#sec5 HTTP Request 09:47:12 s/referrer/referer[sic] 09:54:16 noted that the extra request(s) probably HEAD will suffice need to be made for caching 'if-none-match' etc. 10:11:36 open questions on Tidy - character encoding, defaulting, normalisation, etc. Need to think abut what we want here 10:13:27 -> http://home.ccil.org/~cowan/XML/tagsoup/tagsoup.pdf Sides-based presentation of TagSoup 10:29:44 -> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/css-validator/ CSS Validator source code 10:52:35 Noted that invalid certificates (expired, unrecognised authority) warn 10:55:51 ACTION-52? 10:57:40 trackbot has joined #bpwg 10:57:46 Tracking ISSUEs and ACTIONs from http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/ 11:03:47 ACTION-52? 11:08:41 trackbot has joined #bpwg 11:08:47 Tracking ISSUEs and ACTIONs from http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/ 11:22:41 trackbot has joined #bpwg 11:22:46 Tracking ISSUEs and ACTIONs from http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/ 11:23:49 ACTION-52? 12:26:40 trackbot has joined #bpwg 12:26:46 Tracking ISSUEs and ACTIONs from http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/ 12:43:48 ACTION-52? 12:45:40 trackbot has joined #bpwg 12:45:46 Tracking ISSUEs and ACTIONs from http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/ 12:49:00 RRSAgent, draft minutes 12:49:00 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-minutes.html dom 13:09:26 -> http://www.pygtk.org/pygtkmozembed/class-gtkmozembed.html gtkmozembed.MozEmbed 13:19:52 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobileok-checker/2007Apr/att-0009/Intermediate_Document_Format.svg SVG of the Mindmap resulting of our morning discussions 13:22:11 RRSAgent, draft minutes 13:22:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-minutes.html dom 13:35:13 Topic: review of actions and plans 13:35:35 Jo will wrap up the requirements document, including the mind map document 13:35:43 Sean will send an updated architecture diagram 13:37:06 trackbot, bye 13:37:06 trackbot has left #bpwg 13:37:23 Ronan has joined #bpwg 13:37:38 ACTION: Jo to complete a final draft of the requirements statement doc in the next week or two 13:38:00 ACTION: Jo to complete a strawman of the intermediate doc based on mind map in the next week or two (leading to a schema later) 13:38:19 ACTION: Jo to complete a strawman draft of the results document in conjunction with Shadi 13:38:47 Action: srowen to circulate a next draft of architecture / design doc in the next week or so 13:39:34 Action: srowen to update / rewrite code after architecture / design doc has been finalized and begin development soon 13:44:06 noted that we ought to look at the JHOVE library 13:44:22 Ruadhan observed that we're likely to use them 13:44:47 jo wondered if we would use W3C validator or JHOVE for XHTML 13:45:09 Dom commented that we'd probably just just whatever comes with Java 13:45:28 s/Java/the XML parser we end up using 13:46:57 scribenick: Jo 13:47:20 ACTION: Sean to contact JHOVE in pursuit of his actions on code over the next couple of weeks 13:50:57 Topic: Miscellaneous Summaries 13:51:35 Noted that the decision was made to use local copies of DTDs to avoid counterfeiting 13:52:23 Dom:plus in general we should use cached copies as much as possible to reduce our retrieval footptint 13:55:27 s/ptint/print 13:55:41 s/print/pint/ 13:55:48 s/pint/print/ 13:55:54 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobileok-checker/2007Mar/0047.html 13:58:32 Topic: Review of Architecture 13:58:48 [sean discusses general framework] 13:59:18 Srowen: Question 1 is to what extent should output also be available as pure Java objects? 14:00:04 ... it would be nice for any program to use, but would be a lot of development work 14:00:27 ... possibly restrict this to the results and not expose all the preprocessing as Java objects 14:01:17 [no disagreement] 14:01:42 topic: Components 14:01:56 srowen: Java 5 14:02:07 ... default Java XML parser? 14:02:14 jo: what is it? 14:03:24 srowen: not sure may be Xerces 14:03:34 dom: doesn't matter there is a common interface 14:03:44 srowen: Tag soup 14:04:21 jo: noted that we said we needed to study what we mean for tidying more carefully 14:04:48 srown: jakarta commons HTTP client 14:05:03 jo: does that give access to raw HTTP headers? 14:05:09 ruadhan: think so 14:05:24 srowen: using JHOVE 14:06:09 ... also planning to use some kind of CSS parser - implementation of SAC (simple api for CSS) 14:06:31 ... basic class diagram 14:06:48 jo: UML? 14:07:05 dom: rough schema of how planning to organise code 14:07:18 sro: key classes, key flow 14:07:25 jo: threading? 14:07:40 sro: yes worth mentioning in this document 14:08:07 topic: tidy 14:08:15 sro: valid dom is main goal 14:08:28 jo: also character encoding tidying too? 14:10:01 topic: test harnesses 14:10:14 jo: need to discuss how the testing will be carried out 14:11:08 sro: yes we need to discuss the approach 14:11:13 topic: test documents 14:11:22 jo: need to start work on this 14:12:01 dom: yes, we need to start documenting expecgted outcomes 14:12:09 s/gted/ted 14:12:41 ACTION: Dom to start work on gathering test cases and documenting expected outcomes 14:13:43 jo: need to create a gap analysis 14:15:29 dom: will create a list in CVS of test cases against tests as part of above action 14:16:13 sro: architecture document will discuss how tests are to be defined 14:19:19 jo: does shadi have a view from EARL on how the expected outcome should be compared with an actual outcome 14:19:42 dom: in our case we'd check whether a specific warning is given too 14:20:03 ... which means we'll have to have specific error codes for each one 14:21:20 Jo: we'll need an RDF vocab for this 14:21:30 dom: yes but we don't need to be public about it 14:22:19 RRSAgent, draft minutes 14:22:19 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-minutes.html dom 14:29:34 Topic: Next F2F 14:29:54 [following discussion proposed 12 13 June in London] 14:30:29 ACTION: Sean to announce to list proposed meeting date and location 14:30:39 [thanks dotMobi for hosting this first great meeting!] 14:30:59 ACTION: Sean to find out about Google hosting meeting 14:31:44 Topic: Thanks to dotMobi 14:31:53 Thanks! 14:31:57 [noted] 14:32:06 Thanks also to Shadi for coming and helping 14:32:38 sro: adjourned 14:32:39 RRSAgent, draft minutes 14:32:39 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-minutes.html dom 14:32:42 RRSAgent, bye 14:32:42 I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-actions.rdf : 14:32:42 ACTION: Jo to complete a final draft of the requirements statement doc in the next week or two [1] 14:32:42 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-irc#T13-37-38 14:32:42 ACTION: Jo to complete a strawman of the intermediate doc based on mind map in the next week or two (leading to a schema later) [2] 14:32:42 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-irc#T13-38-00 14:32:42 ACTION: Jo to complete a strawman draft of the results document in conjunction with Shadi [3] 14:32:42 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-irc#T13-38-19 14:32:42 ACTION: srowen to circulate a next draft of architecture / design doc in the next week or so [4] 14:32:42 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-irc#T13-38-47 14:32:42 ACTION: srowen to update / rewrite code after architecture / design doc has been finalized and begin development soon [5] 14:32:42 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-irc#T13-39-34 14:32:42 ACTION: Sean to contact JHOVE in pursuit of his actions on code over the next couple of weeks [6] 14:32:42 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-irc#T13-47-20 14:32:42 ACTION: Dom to start work on gathering test cases and documenting expected outcomes [7] 14:32:42 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-irc#T14-12-41 14:32:42 ACTION: Sean to announce to list proposed meeting date and location [8] 14:32:42 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-irc#T14-30-29 14:32:42 ACTION: Sean to find out about Google hosting meeting [9] 14:32:42 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-irc#T14-30-59