IRC log of bpwg on 2007-04-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

07:17:01 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #bpwg
07:17:01 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-irc
07:17:13 [dom]
Meeting: mobileOK reference implementation F2F in Dublin, day 2
07:17:15 [dom]
Chair: Sean
07:17:23 [dom]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobileok-checker/2007Mar/0050.html
07:17:35 [dom]
RRSAgent, make log public
07:17:53 [dom]
Present: Ruadhan, Ronan, Sean, Jo, Dom
07:18:04 [dom]
Regrets: Roland, Abel, Nacho, Miguel
07:18:28 [dom]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
07:18:28 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-minutes.html dom
07:23:07 [jo]
jo has joined #bpwg
08:00:15 [dom]
Present+ Shadi
08:02:20 [shadi]
shadi has joined #bpwg
08:05:21 [srowen]
srowen has joined #bpwg
08:05:54 [dom]
Topic: review of tests and information they need
08:22:25 [dom]
[jo lists out the information we may need to record as part of the audit trail]
08:30:41 [trackbot]
trackbot has joined #bpwg
08:30:46 [trackbot]
Tracking ISSUEs and ACTIONs from http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/
08:51:53 [dom]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
08:51:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-minutes.html dom
09:44:22 [jo]
noted that Dom disagrees that we are a robot so we do not look at robots.txt
09:45:04 [dom]
-> http://www.robotstxt.org/wc/faq.html#what "A robot is a program that automatically traverses the Web's hypertext structure by retrieving a document, and recursively retrieving all documents that are referenced."
09:45:15 [dom]
(and we don't do recursive retrieving)
09:45:21 [jo]
it is not necessary to add a referrer field
09:47:00 [dom]
-> http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec5.html#sec5 HTTP Request
09:47:12 [jo]
s/referrer/referer[sic]
09:54:16 [jo]
noted that the extra request(s) probably HEAD will suffice need to be made for caching 'if-none-match' etc.
10:11:36 [jo]
open questions on Tidy - character encoding, defaulting, normalisation, etc. Need to think abut what we want here
10:13:27 [dom]
-> http://home.ccil.org/~cowan/XML/tagsoup/tagsoup.pdf Sides-based presentation of TagSoup
10:29:44 [dom]
-> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/css-validator/ CSS Validator source code
10:52:35 [jo]
Noted that invalid certificates (expired, unrecognised authority) warn
10:55:51 [dom]
ACTION-52?
10:57:40 [trackbot]
trackbot has joined #bpwg
10:57:46 [trackbot]
Tracking ISSUEs and ACTIONs from http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/
11:03:47 [dom]
ACTION-52?
11:08:41 [trackbot]
trackbot has joined #bpwg
11:08:47 [trackbot]
Tracking ISSUEs and ACTIONs from http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/
11:22:41 [trackbot]
trackbot has joined #bpwg
11:22:46 [trackbot]
Tracking ISSUEs and ACTIONs from http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/
11:23:49 [dom]
ACTION-52?
12:26:40 [trackbot]
trackbot has joined #bpwg
12:26:46 [trackbot]
Tracking ISSUEs and ACTIONs from http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/
12:43:48 [dom]
ACTION-52?
12:45:40 [trackbot]
trackbot has joined #bpwg
12:45:46 [trackbot]
Tracking ISSUEs and ACTIONs from http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/
12:49:00 [dom]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
12:49:00 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-minutes.html dom
13:09:26 [dom]
-> http://www.pygtk.org/pygtkmozembed/class-gtkmozembed.html gtkmozembed.MozEmbed
13:19:52 [dom]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobileok-checker/2007Apr/att-0009/Intermediate_Document_Format.svg SVG of the Mindmap resulting of our morning discussions
13:22:11 [dom]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
13:22:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-minutes.html dom
13:35:13 [dom]
Topic: review of actions and plans
13:35:35 [dom]
Jo will wrap up the requirements document, including the mind map document
13:35:43 [dom]
Sean will send an updated architecture diagram
13:37:06 [dom]
trackbot, bye
13:37:06 [trackbot]
trackbot has left #bpwg
13:37:23 [Ronan]
Ronan has joined #bpwg
13:37:38 [srowen]
ACTION: Jo to complete a final draft of the requirements statement doc in the next week or two
13:38:00 [srowen]
ACTION: Jo to complete a strawman of the intermediate doc based on mind map in the next week or two (leading to a schema later)
13:38:19 [srowen]
ACTION: Jo to complete a strawman draft of the results document in conjunction with Shadi
13:38:47 [srowen]
Action: srowen to circulate a next draft of architecture / design doc in the next week or so
13:39:34 [srowen]
Action: srowen to update / rewrite code after architecture / design doc has been finalized and begin development soon
13:44:06 [jo]
noted that we ought to look at the JHOVE library
13:44:22 [jo]
Ruadhan observed that we're likely to use them
13:44:47 [jo]
jo wondered if we would use W3C validator or JHOVE for XHTML
13:45:09 [jo]
Dom commented that we'd probably just just whatever comes with Java
13:45:28 [jo]
s/Java/the XML parser we end up using
13:46:57 [jo]
scribenick: Jo
13:47:20 [jo]
ACTION: Sean to contact JHOVE in pursuit of his actions on code over the next couple of weeks
13:50:57 [jo]
Topic: Miscellaneous Summaries
13:51:35 [jo]
Noted that the decision was made to use local copies of DTDs to avoid counterfeiting
13:52:23 [jo]
Dom:plus in general we should use cached copies as much as possible to reduce our retrieval footptint
13:55:27 [jo]
s/ptint/print
13:55:41 [dom]
s/print/pint/
13:55:48 [dom]
s/pint/print/
13:55:54 [srowen]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobileok-checker/2007Mar/0047.html
13:58:32 [jo]
Topic: Review of Architecture
13:58:48 [jo]
[sean discusses general framework]
13:59:18 [jo]
Srowen: Question 1 is to what extent should output also be available as pure Java objects?
14:00:04 [jo]
... it would be nice for any program to use, but would be a lot of development work
14:00:27 [jo]
... possibly restrict this to the results and not expose all the preprocessing as Java objects
14:01:17 [jo]
[no disagreement]
14:01:42 [jo]
topic: Components
14:01:56 [jo]
srowen: Java 5
14:02:07 [jo]
... default Java XML parser?
14:02:14 [jo]
jo: what is it?
14:03:24 [jo]
srowen: not sure may be Xerces
14:03:34 [jo]
dom: doesn't matter there is a common interface
14:03:44 [jo]
srowen: Tag soup
14:04:21 [jo]
jo: noted that we said we needed to study what we mean for tidying more carefully
14:04:48 [jo]
srown: jakarta commons HTTP client
14:05:03 [jo]
jo: does that give access to raw HTTP headers?
14:05:09 [jo]
ruadhan: think so
14:05:24 [jo]
srowen: using JHOVE
14:06:09 [jo]
... also planning to use some kind of CSS parser - implementation of SAC (simple api for CSS)
14:06:31 [jo]
... basic class diagram
14:06:48 [jo]
jo: UML?
14:07:05 [jo]
dom: rough schema of how planning to organise code
14:07:18 [jo]
sro: key classes, key flow
14:07:25 [jo]
jo: threading?
14:07:40 [jo]
sro: yes worth mentioning in this document
14:08:07 [jo]
topic: tidy
14:08:15 [jo]
sro: valid dom is main goal
14:08:28 [jo]
jo: also character encoding tidying too?
14:10:01 [jo]
topic: test harnesses
14:10:14 [jo]
jo: need to discuss how the testing will be carried out
14:11:08 [jo]
sro: yes we need to discuss the approach
14:11:13 [jo]
topic: test documents
14:11:22 [jo]
jo: need to start work on this
14:12:01 [jo]
dom: yes, we need to start documenting expecgted outcomes
14:12:09 [jo]
s/gted/ted
14:12:41 [jo]
ACTION: Dom to start work on gathering test cases and documenting expected outcomes
14:13:43 [jo]
jo: need to create a gap analysis
14:15:29 [jo]
dom: will create a list in CVS of test cases against tests as part of above action
14:16:13 [jo]
sro: architecture document will discuss how tests are to be defined
14:19:19 [jo]
jo: does shadi have a view from EARL on how the expected outcome should be compared with an actual outcome
14:19:42 [jo]
dom: in our case we'd check whether a specific warning is given too
14:20:03 [jo]
... which means we'll have to have specific error codes for each one
14:21:20 [jo]
Jo: we'll need an RDF vocab for this
14:21:30 [jo]
dom: yes but we don't need to be public about it
14:22:19 [dom]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:22:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-minutes.html dom
14:29:34 [jo]
Topic: Next F2F
14:29:54 [jo]
[following discussion proposed 12 13 June in London]
14:30:29 [jo]
ACTION: Sean to announce to list proposed meeting date and location
14:30:39 [dom]
[thanks dotMobi for hosting this first great meeting!]
14:30:59 [jo]
ACTION: Sean to find out about Google hosting meeting
14:31:44 [jo]
Topic: Thanks to dotMobi
14:31:53 [dom]
Thanks!
14:31:57 [jo]
[noted]
14:32:06 [jo]
Thanks also to Shadi for coming and helping
14:32:38 [jo]
sro: adjourned
14:32:39 [dom]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:32:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-minutes.html dom
14:32:42 [dom]
RRSAgent, bye
14:32:42 [RRSAgent]
I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-actions.rdf :
14:32:42 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jo to complete a final draft of the requirements statement doc in the next week or two [1]
14:32:42 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-irc#T13-37-38
14:32:42 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jo to complete a strawman of the intermediate doc based on mind map in the next week or two (leading to a schema later) [2]
14:32:42 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-irc#T13-38-00
14:32:42 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jo to complete a strawman draft of the results document in conjunction with Shadi [3]
14:32:42 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-irc#T13-38-19
14:32:42 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: srowen to circulate a next draft of architecture / design doc in the next week or so [4]
14:32:42 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-irc#T13-38-47
14:32:42 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: srowen to update / rewrite code after architecture / design doc has been finalized and begin development soon [5]
14:32:42 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-irc#T13-39-34
14:32:42 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Sean to contact JHOVE in pursuit of his actions on code over the next couple of weeks [6]
14:32:42 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-irc#T13-47-20
14:32:42 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Dom to start work on gathering test cases and documenting expected outcomes [7]
14:32:42 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-irc#T14-12-41
14:32:42 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Sean to announce to list proposed meeting date and location [8]
14:32:42 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-irc#T14-30-29
14:32:42 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Sean to find out about Google hosting meeting [9]
14:32:42 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/03-bpwg-irc#T14-30-59