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08:25:36 RRSAgent, make logs public
08:25:46 RRSAgent, pointer?
08:25:46 See http://www.w3.org/2007/03/22-html-wg-irc#T08-25-46
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08:50:24 hi everyone :-)
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08:52:02 morning
08:52:11 mornin' anne :-)
08:58:21 hello
09:10:48 why are the W3C list archives offline?
09:13:06 Morning.
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11:02:31 anne, yeah, weird, can't remember this ever happening before...
11:03:03 I also sent a message to public-html, and it doesn't seem to get thru
11:07:44 schnitz - unfortunately the W3C list server has been down for several hours
11:08:00 no W3C mailing-list mail at all is going through right now
11:08:05 MikeSmith, any idea when it will get back online?
11:08:52 anne - nope
11:09:15 might not be much happen until US/East systeam people get online
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11:56:31 bonjour
11:56:52 DanC: ping
11:58:05 bonjour glazou :-)
11:58:32 goodday schnitz
11:58:48 long time no see
11:59:04 last time in mandelieu right ?
11:59:15 or ac in tokyo ?
12:00:35 mandelieu :-)
12:00:57 that was great
12:01:16 yeah, mandelieu was nice
12:01:25 yep :-)
12:01:55 what I love really is arriving by car from the highway, open the car's windows and let the mimosa smell go through the car
12:02:00 aren't we having one of those dark and cold bostom TPs this fall again? :-)
12:02:17 schnitz: I am freezing already only thinking about it :)
12:02:56 glazou, oh yeah, I've been driving to mandelieu all the way from munich, and in munich is was deep winter with lots of snow, and in mandelieu it was spring, that was amazing...
12:12:36 lists are online again...
12:17:19 ah
12:24:50 ok, lists are up again, I sent a message though earlier today, and it doesn't seem to get there... wondering whether I should re-send
12:25:22 dunno
12:25:39 hmm, I'll wait a little...
12:25:55 maybe some sys folks in boston are currently fishing for lost mail...
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12:56:34 glazou_afk, pong. but I've got an 8am telcon, and I'm chairing.
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13:15:53 bbl
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14:42:57 ah
14:43:05 e-mails are arriving on W3C lists now...
14:45:18 apparently there was some problem with blogging that impacted other services, but I understand that this has now been fixed.
14:48:18 over 150 IE
14:48:21 s
14:50:21 we should conduct a survey to get a feeling for their backgrounds
14:51:10 what kind of information do we need to know about them?
14:53:00 it would be nice to know where they are based in the world, and what they do, e.g. role in development team, what kinds of websites they work on etc.
14:54:20 for statistics?
14:57:17 yes, preferably as pretty graphs
14:57:51 perhaps, but I find that kind of information isn't really useful till you have an idea of their personality, which is determined by the way the express themselves in their e-mails
14:58:05 MikeSmith, hmm, the latest HTML WD?
14:58:14 that's an awful document :)
14:58:20 anne, yeah that
14:58:26 that message
14:59:13 I'm wondering if Murray is aware of the WHATWG work at all
14:59:37 I don't appear to have received that e-mail yet. What's the subject line?
14:59:38 It would be unlikely that he isn't aware of it.
14:59:48 Lachy, refresh
14:59:55 I did
15:00:02 Lachy, "Straw man proposal to build an agenda/issue list"
15:00:13 I'll check the list archive\
15:00:38 Dave, what is the URI for the latest draft?
15:01:08 w3.org/tr/html/
15:01:12 Good question, in theory it should be on the WG page if Karl has done his bit
15:01:15 or maybe w3.org/tr/html4/
15:02:29 /TR/html/ should change to HTML5 when it moves to W3C, /html4/ should stay as is
15:02:45 yeah, prolly
15:02:46 I am not sure where we are in respect to being able to make HTML5 into a formal WD though.
15:02:56 hmm, by "drafts", does Murray mean the public RECs?
15:03:03 a lot further than last year
15:03:05 good question
15:03:17 MikeSmith, there's not much else
15:04:38 Dave, we need to find out the exact conditions under which Apple, Mozilla, Opera and Hixie would agree to publish it at the W3C
15:05:09 One of them would probably be to ensure that the spec on whatwg.org and w3c.org are the same spec!
15:05:25 They could make a formal contribution subject to the Patent Policy, that's easy enough
15:05:34 but what about the other contributors?
15:05:58 I am sure that Ian could generate the WD format easily enough.
15:06:00 what about other significant text?
15:06:16 e.g. ?
15:06:21 have most of the invited experts come across from the whatwg?
15:06:22 dunno
15:06:27 you're bringing it up :)
15:06:53 Lachy - I don't know about "most" but there are many that have come from elsewhere
15:06:54 s/significant text/proposals/
15:07:22 If there is some kind of record of who contributed to the spec then we can ask every such contribute to agree to W3C PP in regards to their contribution.
15:07:23 maybe significant proposals
15:08:19 hmm. looks like the subscriber list for whatwg is no longer available, so I can't compare the list of e-mails with the names in the HTMLWG
15:08:28 Current memebers of HTML WG have already made such a commitment.
15:08:32 I guess the WHATWG work could be seen being already existing work that attempts to accomplish the first part of what Murray suggests
15:08:34 http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#acknowledgements
15:08:38 has all the names
15:08:47 but I wonder if that's really needed
15:08:57 only those who have contributed to the spec, none of the lurkers are included
15:09:20 Lurkers don't matter if they don't contribute to the spec.
15:09:52 I suppose the number of lurkers on the HTMLWG would be comparitively few
15:10:01 at the moment, anyway
15:10:01 Lurkers on WhatWG list that is.
15:13:41 The list of people given in the acknowledgements should be good enough if it is deemed to be reasonably accurate.
15:14:34 it still seems silly to me as you don't know who influenced those people, etc.
15:14:53 (and the same goes for current REC track documents, btw)
15:15:10 There are limits to what we can practically do to protect implementers (and end users)
15:15:37 W3C Patent Policy is the best we have been able to come up with so far.
15:16:10 I have been involved in several Patent Advisory Groups and so far things have worked out pretty good with exception of Eoalas case.
15:16:26 and that has been pretty bad
15:16:42 yes, it wasn't pretty
15:17:29 but going forward the work arounds aren't too bad.
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15:26:08 I have the lists of names prepared from each group, does anyone know a quick method of comparing them?
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15:33:21 Hi everybody!
15:34:24 allo
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15:41:35 Morning all.
15:44:33 Murray seems to live in the future
15:45:02 that's where we are all heading ...
15:45:19 He's right to focus on agenda and plans.
15:45:54 I'd rather he didn't actually.
15:46:13 DanC has changed the topic to: W3C HTML WG http://www.w3.org/html/wg/ - http://www.w3.org/2007/03/22-html-wg-irc (logged)
15:46:25 grumble... the log from yesterday is very incomplete. I sent a sysreq
15:46:40 DanC, http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/
15:46:51 (has all the important logs)
15:47:00 with respect to HTML anyway
15:48:07 ah... thanks, anne
15:56:57 hi DanC
15:57:38 my potential host for the ftf pinged me this morning, they'd like to have more details (dates, number of attendees) to give their formal agreement
15:59:05 Hi Dan, have a minute to answer a question or two in PM?
16:00:15 DanC rather.
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16:09:55 ROTFL
16:10:07 we need a fortunes page in this HTML WG...
16:14:06 Well folks, just got accepted into the working group, glad to be here and to be working with all of you!
16:18:23 tylerr: congrats!
16:18:40 Thank you icaaq. :)
16:19:17 hi glazou . It would help if you would suggest a date
16:21:18 the survey shows 39 people interested in a meeting, though not all of them are interested/available for a meeting in france. http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/ftf07/results
16:21:52 21-05 / 23-05, Paris
16:22:16 gna, re-sent my mail and still not getting thru, I guess it will pop up twice then, like tomorrow
16:22:24 that's 21 and 23 May?
16:22:25 21 May to 23 May
16:22:42 (if it's your typical three-day meeting)
16:22:53 I don't see anything typical about this meeting
16:23:05 :)
16:23:13 ;-)
16:23:30 it's the first Monday after XTech (which ends on Friday)
16:23:42 ups, s/thining/thinking :-)
16:24:02 I would need my company to fund my travel. Unfortunately we run a tight ship. **chuckles**
16:24:11 hmm... I'd like to go to xtech, and not stay over the weekend.
16:24:25 AH
16:24:29 now it came thru
16:24:30 maybe May 14-15?
16:25:06 that works too, although I believe some bits of XTech start on 15
16:25:24 yeah... I'm checking the XTech schedule... http://2007.xtech.org/public/schedule/grid
16:26:03 I'm here
16:26:09 but have to go home in 10 minutes
16:26:37 my host and xtech are not in the same part of paris
16:26:42 xtech is west
16:26:45 host is south
16:26:52 both inside city limits
16:26:59 Paris has a reasonable metro system...
16:27:00 well, it's the same airport, yes?
16:27:05 DanC: rofl
16:27:16 heh
16:27:24 schnitz, I've got your email now
16:27:28 er... I was serious; NY has more than one airport, as does the SFO area
16:27:34 probably 20 minutes by subway between both
16:27:48 ah... 20 minutes by subway means people don't even have to change hotels
16:27:55 DanC: sure
16:28:09 DanC: paris subway network is excellent
16:28:10 I'm OK with overlapping XTech on 15 May; that's the tutorial day
16:28:28 yeah, I think that day is reasonably available for us
16:28:40 I don't see any WG members on the tutorial schedule, though Steven P. might be interested to attend.
16:29:12 Hmm, I am chairing xtech ubiweb track on Tuesday May 15
16:29:21 Dave Raggett is on there
16:29:25 all day, dave? or just onen day?
16:29:30 phph. or just one half?
16:29:40 Let me check
16:30:02 DanC: are you suggesting 14 and 15 may ?
16:30:03 I can see when it starts from http://2007.xtech.org/public/schedule/detail/19 but not when it ends
16:30:13 yes, I'm thinking about May 14-15
16:30:21 ok
16:30:32 I have to go on daddy duty
16:30:33 bbl
16:30:35 enjoy
16:31:12 xtech ubiweb track is whole day, see http://2007.xtech.org/public/schedule/topic/7
16:31:19 ah. I see.
16:31:53 counter-proposal? or are you ok with attending just the 1st of 2 days?
16:32:42 I could be, depends on the agenda
16:33:16 MikeSmith is presenting on Wednesday 16th at 11am on the future of HTML
16:33:32 followed by Molly
16:33:35 yeah; I'd like to be there for that
16:35:43 Hey I see that Antoine Quint now works for Joost and is talking on the 17th
16:37:01 Henri Sivonen is talking on HTML5 conformance on morning of 18th
16:37:21 Dave - actually I'm not presenting that "Future of HTML" session, but just moderating. Because it's panel discussion.
16:37:28 Thx
16:39:25 MikeSmith, who's on the panel?
16:42:54 schnitz, how's that concrete?
16:43:53 well, we all know where the spec is?
16:43:56 :-)
16:44:04 I will expand, of course
16:44:31 what exactly does XForms Transitional address that HTML5 doesn't, etc.
16:44:36 anne, I'm a fan of small emails
16:44:44 well, that doesn't really help here
16:44:50 anne, the expressions that Dave went to in his last mail?
16:45:22 also separation between presentation and value stored in DOM
16:45:23 anne, come on, don't be so negative, I'm certainly not, I will expand, that was just the short answer for this minute
16:46:17 anne - haven't set final lineup for that panel
16:46:18 XHTML Modularization is the answer to the statement that HTML5 is heavily intertwined and cannot be modularized, not true, we did it in M12N
16:46:36 and XHTML M12N is very close to HTML 4.01
16:46:42 so no magic XHTML2 stuff here
16:46:43 FYI: XHTML Modularization has zero web browser implementations
16:46:50