14:26:23 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:26:24 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-dawg-irc
14:26:47 <LeeF> zakim, this will be dawg
14:26:47 <Zakim> ok, LeeF; I see SW_DAWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
14:27:00 <LeeF> Meeting: RDF Data Access Weekly
14:27:04 <LeeF> Chair: LeeF
14:27:06 <LeeF> Scribe: LeeF
14:27:50 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()9:30AM has now started
14:27:57 <Zakim> +MIT531
14:28:47 <patH> patH has joined #dawg
14:28:53 <ericP> Zakim, MIT531 has LeeF, ericP
14:28:53 <Zakim> +LeeF, ericP; got it
14:29:21 <ericP> Zakim, who is here?
14:29:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see MIT531
14:29:22 <Zakim> MIT531 has LeeF, ericP
14:29:23 <Zakim> On IRC I see patH, RRSAgent, Zakim, LeeF, AndyS, SteveH, afs, ericP, iv_an_ru
14:29:37 <patH> be there in a second
14:29:46 <LeeF> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JanMar/0162.html
14:30:00 <LeeF> agenda + convene
14:30:02 <LeeF> agenda + action items
14:30:25 <Zakim> +??P2
14:30:27 <AndyS> zakim, ??P2 is me
14:30:27 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:30:28 <Zakim> +PatH
14:30:37 <LeeF> agenda + Duplicate solution cardinality
14:30:45 <LeeF> agenda + issue entailmentFramework
14:30:49 <Zakim> +??P4
14:30:52 <jeen> jeen has joined #dawg
14:30:54 <LeeF> agenda + last call
14:30:56 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P4 is SteveH
14:30:56 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
14:31:01 <SteveH> Zakim, mute me
14:31:01 <Zakim> SteveH should now be muted
14:31:05 <SteveH> hi
14:31:06 <sdas2> sdas2 has joined #dawg
14:31:07 <LeeF> agenda + Test suite
14:32:25 <LeeF> LeeF has changed the topic to: RDF Data Access Working Group weekly telecon. agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JanMar/0162.html
14:32:31 <SimonR> SimonR has joined #dawg
14:32:48 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aaaa
14:33:13 <LeeF> zakim, aaaa is sdas2
14:33:13 <Zakim> +sdas2; got it
14:33:48 <sdas2> zakim, sdas2 is souri
14:33:48 <Zakim> +souri; got it
14:34:02 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:34:07 <jeen> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
14:34:07 <Zakim> +jeen; got it
14:34:57 <LeeF> minutes from last week -> http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-minutes
14:36:17 <SimonR> SimonR has joined #dawg
14:36:36 <Zakim> +[IBMCambridge]
14:36:37 <Zakim> +??P28
14:36:50 <SimonR> Zakim, ??P28 is me
14:36:50 <Zakim> +SimonR; got it
14:37:04 <LeeF> approved minutes http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-minutes
14:37:29 <LeeF> next meeting 27th of march, scribe: ericP
14:37:57 <LeeF> agenda + active graph
14:38:03 <LeeF> zakim, take up agendum 2
14:38:03 <Zakim> agendum 2. "action items" taken up [from LeeF]
14:38:05 <EliasT> EliasT has joined #dawg
14:38:14 <EliasT> Zakim, IBM is me
14:38:14 <Zakim> sorry, EliasT, I do not recognize a party named 'IBM'
14:38:18 <EliasT> Zakim, IBMCambridge is me
14:38:18 <Zakim> +EliasT; got it
14:38:23 <LeeF> ACTION: ericP to draft text about a LOOSE keyword and run it by w3 folks  
14:38:23 <LeeF> to see if we're abusing the "at risk" mechanism [DONE]
14:38:31 <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF to seek guidance about at-risk features from the CG [DONE]
14:38:38 <EliasT> Zakim, pointer?
14:38:38 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, EliasT.
14:38:41 <LeeF> ACTION: ericP to mark sections 2 and 3 informative, Appendices A, B and D  
14:38:41 <LeeF> normative in the text and table of contents and 1.1 document outline [DONE]
14:38:47 <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF to close bnodeRef issue [DONE]
14:38:52 <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF to close nested optionals issue [DONE]
14:39:00 <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF to close openWorldValueTesting issue [DONE]
14:39:19 <LeeF> ACTION: PatH to investigate closing the entailment issue [DONE]
14:39:28 <LeeF> ACTION: EricP to run the yacker tool over and annotate the existing tests  [CONTINUES]
14:39:36 <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF or EliasT to reply to Bjoern regarding (not) POSTing application/sparql-query documents  [CONTINUES]
14:39:44 <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF to remember that the wee, lost filter tests should be put  [CONTINUES]
14:39:50 <LeeF> zakim, close agendum
14:39:50 <Zakim> I don't understand 'close agendum', LeeF
14:39:55 <LeeF> zakim, close this agendum
14:39:55 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
14:39:57 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:39:58 <Zakim> 1. convene [from LeeF]
14:40:00 <LeeF> zakim, take up agendum 3
14:40:00 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Duplicate solution cardinality" taken up [from LeeF]
14:43:18 <EliasT> LeeF: I spoke to Ivan and Ralph and they agreed that we can make use of the at risk feature in our publication and mark LOOSE at risk.
14:43:24 <LeeF> Scribe: EliasT
14:44:03 <EliasT> ... we can also make use of an informative section for LOOSE but that might not neccessarily fit this situation.
14:44:35 <EliasT> ericP: LOOSE keyword shouldn't affect implementations too much since they only need to know how to parse it. They don't have to do any extra work when encountering it.
14:45:34 <EliasT> patH: I'll keep my mute button on for this discussion.
14:45:45 <LeeF> PROPOSE: SPARQL SELECT queries with no keyword following SELECT must  
14:45:45 <LeeF> return the precise cardinality of duplicate solutions specified by the  
14:45:45 <LeeF> algebra; SPARQL contains a @@ LOOSE keyword that allows duplicate  
14:45:45 <LeeF> solutions to be returned with cardinality of at least 1 and no greater  
14:45:45 <LeeF> than that specified by the algebra. The @@ LOOSE keyword will be marked as  
14:45:46 <LeeF> an at-risk feature of SPARQL.
14:46:18 <ericP> i nominate "LAX" as the keyword
14:46:48 <sdas2> DISTINCT PLUS
14:47:03 <sdas2> zakim, sdas2 is Souri
14:47:03 <Zakim> sorry, sdas2, I do not recognize a party named 'sdas2'
14:47:04 <EliasT> AndyS: We should discuss the keyword because that will dictate the semantics
14:47:11 <LeeF> LOOSE
14:47:12 <LeeF> LAX
14:47:14 <LeeF> INDISTINCT
14:47:17 <LeeF> DISTINCT PLUS
14:47:23 <patH> how about VOMIT
14:47:56 <LeeF> "SOME" ?
14:47:56 <Souri> Thanks Jeen
14:48:17 <patH> 'indistinct' sounds like you can't tell the difference betwen the answers. 
14:48:28 <AndyS> -1 to LAX : 0 to LOOSE
14:48:55 <patH> LAX is an airport code, which might be a problem?
14:49:20 <LeeF> AT-LEAST-ONE-OF-EACH
14:49:27 <EliasT> WHATEVER?
14:49:36 <AndyS> REDUCED?
14:49:42 <patH> SILLY?
14:49:51 <Souri> +q
14:50:03 <LeeF> ack Souri
14:50:45 <patH> MORE (seriously)
14:51:04 <SteveH> what about LOOSE DISTINCT
14:51:20 <SimonR> It's a little bit disturbing that there's no english word for this concept....
14:51:38 <SimonR> BAG
14:52:29 <LeeF> PARTIAL ? (same problem as SOME)
14:52:39 <ericP> from www.wordsmyth.net:
14:52:39 <ericP> lax[1]: not rigorous, strict, or careful; loose; lenient.
14:52:39 <ericP> loose[1]: not restrained or confined; free.
14:52:39 <ericP> reduce[1]:to make less in amount or size.
14:53:00 <SteveH> I like REDUCE best I think
14:53:02 <patH> how about FREE?
14:53:07 <SimonR> DUPLICATED
14:53:25 <Souri> REDUCED DUPLICATES ?
14:53:49 <EliasT> LeeF: AndyS and Souri have a good comment that PARTIAL and SOME might imply that you are getting less than at least one for each unique answer.
14:54:21 <EliasT> ericP: (answering to Lee's what about REDUCED) +0
14:54:36 <LeeF> REDUCE or REDUCED
14:54:44 <SimonR> REDUCTIBLE
14:54:55 <AndyS> RUSTED
14:55:06 <Souri> +q
14:55:08 <EliasT> ericP: +1 REDUCED
14:55:09 <ericP> +1 for REDUCED
14:55:14 <LeeF> PROPOSE: SPARQL SELECT queries with no keyword following SELECT must  
14:55:14 <LeeF>  return the precise cardinality of duplicate solutions specified by the  
14:55:14 <LeeF>  algebra; SPARQL contains a REDUCED keyword that allows duplicate  
14:55:14 <LeeF>  solutions to be returned with cardinality of at least 1 and no greater  
14:55:14 <LeeF>  than that specified by the algebra. The REDUCED keyword will be marked as  
14:55:16 <LeeF>  an at-risk feature of SPARQL.
14:55:26 <LeeF> ack Souri
14:55:49 <SteveH> REDUCE works better with DISTINCT, surely?
14:55:55 <SteveH> otherwise it would be DISTINCTED
14:57:29 <SimonR> DISTINGUISHED
14:57:43 <EliasT> AndyS: Will the text highlight that this could affect future counting?
14:57:47 <EliasT> ericP: I don't think it does.
14:58:08 <EliasT> AndyS: If you do SELECT REDUCE DISTINCT COUNT is meaningless
14:58:27 <EliasT> LeeF: I'm inclined to say no because we don't know what COUNT looks like
14:58:31 <AndyS> SELECT REDUCE  COUNT(*)
14:58:47 <EliasT> SimonR: This is specifically for the case when you don't want to count things
14:59:16 <ericP> second
14:59:18 <jeen> second
14:59:34 <SimonR> Abstaining.
14:59:39 <EliasT> AndyS: Abstain
14:59:48 <EliasT> RESOLVED
15:00:02 <ericP> RESOLVED, AndyS and SimonR abstaining
15:00:21 <LeeF> ACTION: Eric to incorporate text for REDUCED into rq25, including text noting that REDUCED does not play nicely with counting
15:00:36 <LeeF> zakim, close this agendum
15:00:39 <Zakim> agendum 3 closed
15:00:40 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:00:40 <LeeF> zakim, take up agendum 4
15:00:41 <Zakim> 1. convene [from LeeF]
15:00:44 <Zakim> agendum 4. "issue entailmentFramework" taken up [from LeeF]
15:00:49 <LeeF> -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#entailmentFramework
15:01:42 <EliasT> LeeF: patH do you think we have address the entailment framework issue in the document?
15:01:47 <EliasT> patH: yes
15:02:14 <LeeF> PROPOSED: that version 1.59 of rq25 addresses and closes http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#entailmentFramework 
15:02:23 <ericP> second
15:02:35 <EliasT> RESOLVED
15:02:44 <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF to close #entailmentFramework issue
15:03:00 <LeeF> zakim, close this agendum
15:03:01 <ericP> Zakim, close agendum 1
15:03:03 <Zakim> agendum 4 closed
15:03:04 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:03:06 <Zakim> 1. convene [from LeeF]
15:03:07 <Zakim> agendum 1, convene, closed
15:03:09 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:03:11 <Zakim> 5. last call [from LeeF]
15:03:20 <LeeF> zakim, take up agendum 7
15:03:21 <Zakim> agendum 7. "active graph" taken up [from LeeF]
15:03:58 <LeeF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JanMar/0163.html
15:04:38 <ericP> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JanMar/0163 PatH's mail, Subject: comments on section 12 (and a little more)
15:06:13 <SimonR> q+
15:06:22 <LeeF> ACTION: AndyS to incorporate and explain the notion of active graph in section 8 and/or wherever else appropriate
15:06:28 <LeeF> ack SimonR
15:07:30 <LeeF> zakim, close this agendum
15:07:30 <Zakim> agendum 7 closed
15:07:31 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:07:33 <Zakim> 5. last call [from LeeF]
15:09:50 <EliasT> LeeF: Anybody who does not think it's a good idea to move to Last Call?
15:10:11 <EliasT> LeeF: Is anybody uncomfortable the way we are moving towards last call?
15:10:56 <EliasT> LeeF: Nobody raised any issues or concerns with my two questions. Fantastic.
15:11:34 <LeeF> PROPOSED: To publish as a Last Call working draft rq25 v1.59 plus text added for relevant action items (REDUCED and active graph)
15:12:12 <LeeF> PROPOSED: To publish as a Last Call working draft rq25 v1.59 plus text added for relevant action items (REDUCED and active graph) and text for remainder of PatH's Section 12 review
15:13:37 <LeeF> PROPOSED: To publish as a Last Call working draft rq25 v1.59 plus text added for relevant action items (REDUCED and active graph) and text for remainder of PatH's Section 12 review plus query results for example query at beginning of section 11
15:14:32 <EliasT> AndyS: I think it's OK
15:14:34 <EliasT> second
15:14:41 <EliasT> ericP: second, much later after Elias
15:15:22 <EliasT> LeeF: Good job everybody. I appreciate all of your hard work.
15:15:30 <EliasT> ... but you are not off the hook just yet
15:17:03 <LeeF> last bytes editorial call at 15:00 UTC on Friday
15:17:03 <Souri> What's corr EDT?
15:17:14 <LeeF> 11:00AM EDT
15:17:15 <AndyS> DAWG telecon +30mins
15:18:38 <EliasT> LeeF: Over the next few weeks we are going to be focusing on answering comments and the test suite.
15:18:50 <EliasT> ... If everything goes well, we'll be working on the implementation report.
15:18:57 <EliasT> ADJOURNED
15:19:02 <Zakim> -souri
15:19:03 <EliasT> RRSAgent, please generate minutes
15:19:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-dawg-minutes.html EliasT
15:19:05 <SteveH> bye
15:19:07 <Zakim> -PatH
15:19:08 <Zakim> -SteveH
15:19:09 <SimonR> 15:20Z
15:19:18 <Zakim> -SimonR
15:19:24 <EliasT> ACTION: ericP schedule teleconf for Friday
15:19:27 <EliasT> RRSAgent, please generate minutes
15:19:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-dawg-minutes.html EliasT
15:22:58 <Zakim> -jeen
15:24:20 <Zakim> -EliasT
15:27:07 <ericP> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:27:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-dawg-minutes.html ericP
15:27:29 <ericP> RRSAgent, please make logs world-visible
15:27:47 <AndyS> zakim, please leave
15:27:47 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were LeeF, ericP, AndyS, PatH, SteveH, +1.603.897.aaaa, souri, jeen, SimonR, EliasT
15:27:47 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dawg
15:28:12 <AndyS> rrsagent, please leave
15:28:12 <RRSAgent> I see 14 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-dawg-actions.rdf :
15:28:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ericP to draft text about a LOOSE keyword and run it by w3 folks   [1]
15:28:12 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-dawg-irc#T14-38-23
15:28:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: LeeF to seek guidance about at-risk features from the CG [DONE] [2]
15:28:12 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-dawg-irc#T14-38-31
15:28:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ericP to mark sections 2 and 3 informative, Appendices A, B and D   [3]
15:28:12 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-dawg-irc#T14-38-41
15:28:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: LeeF to close bnodeRef issue [DONE] [4]
15:28:12 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-dawg-irc#T14-38-47
15:28:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: LeeF to close nested optionals issue [DONE] [5]
15:28:12 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-dawg-irc#T14-38-52
15:28:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: LeeF to close openWorldValueTesting issue [DONE] [6]
15:28:12 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-dawg-irc#T14-39-00
15:28:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: PatH to investigate closing the entailment issue [DONE] [7]
15:28:12 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-dawg-irc#T14-39-19
15:28:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: EricP to run the yacker tool over and annotate the existing tests  [CONTINUES] [8]
15:28:12 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-dawg-irc#T14-39-28
15:28:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: LeeF or EliasT to reply to Bjoern regarding (not) POSTing application/sparql-query documents  [CONTINUES] [9]
15:28:12 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-dawg-irc#T14-39-36
15:28:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: LeeF to remember that the wee, lost filter tests should be put  [CONTINUES] [10]
15:28:12 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-dawg-irc#T14-39-44
15:28:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Eric to incorporate text for REDUCED into rq25, including text noting that REDUCED does not play nicely with counting [11]
15:28:12 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-dawg-irc#T15-00-21
15:28:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: LeeF to close #entailmentFramework issue [12]
15:28:12 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-dawg-irc#T15-02-44
15:28:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: AndyS to incorporate and explain the notion of active graph in section 8 and/or wherever else appropriate [13]
15:28:12 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-dawg-irc#T15-06-22
15:28:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ericP schedule teleconf for Friday [14]
15:28:12 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-dawg-irc#T15-19-24