12:44:15 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdfa
12:44:15 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/03/19-rdfa-irc
12:44:23 <RalphS> Meeting: RDF-in-XHTML TF
12:44:29 <RalphS> Regrets: Ben, Michael
12:44:41 <RalphS> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Mar/0056.html
12:45:07 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2007/03/12-rdfa-minutes.html previous 2007-03-12
12:45:13 <RalphS> rrsagent, please make record public
12:53:19 <Simone> hi Ralph, thanks. how are You?
12:58:31 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)9:00AM has now started
12:58:38 <Zakim> +Ralph
13:00:23 <EliasT> EliasT has joined #rdfa
13:00:43 <wing> wing has joined #rdfa
13:01:31 <Zakim> +[IBMCambridge]
13:01:38 <wing> zakim, IBMCambridge is me
13:01:38 <Zakim> +wing; got it
13:02:10 <Zakim> +Elias_Torres
13:02:18 <Zakim> +??P1
13:02:22 <EliasT> Zakim, Elias_Torres is me
13:02:22 <Zakim> +EliasT; got it
13:02:31 <RalphS> zakim, ??p1 is Simone
13:02:31 <Zakim> +Simone; got it
13:03:51 <RalphS> Chair: Ralph
13:03:53 <RalphS> Scribe: Elias
13:03:59 <EliasT> Scribe: EliasT
13:03:59 <RalphS> scribenick: eliast
13:04:54 <RalphS> agenda+ Bulk Action Item Review
13:05:05 <RalphS> Topic: Convene, next meeting
13:05:47 <Zakim> +??P4
13:05:57 <RalphS> zakim, ??p4 is Mark
13:05:57 <Zakim> +Mark; got it
13:08:36 <Mark> Mark has joined #rdfa
13:09:06 <EliasT> Zakim, mute me
13:09:06 <Zakim> EliasT should now be muted
13:09:28 <EliasT> Zakim, unmute me
13:09:28 <Zakim> EliasT should no longer be muted
13:10:17 <RalphS> Elias: what are the mails from Shane concerning?
13:10:30 <RalphS> Mark: Shane is updating the XHTML1.1 module draft
13:10:52 <RalphS> ... the XHTML 1.1 modules are there in DTD form but not yet the XML Schema modules
13:11:06 <RalphS> ... so DTD validation is now possible
13:11:41 <RalphS> ... I am working on the XML Schema versions
13:12:17 <EliasT> Topic: Test Case
13:12:26 <RalphS> next meeting: 26 March
13:12:33 <RalphS> zakim, move to next agendum
13:12:33 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Bulk Action Item Review" taken up [from RalphS]
13:13:10 <EliasT> ACTION: Ben to get back in touch with Ian about eRDF/RDFa
13:13:13 <EliasT> CONTINUES
13:13:28 <EliasT> Zakim, action -1
13:13:28 <Zakim> I don't understand 'action -1', EliasT
13:13:38 <EliasT> action -1
13:13:47 <EliasT> ACTION: Ben to get back in touch with Ian about eRDF/RDFa [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]
13:13:57 <EliasT> [CONTINUES]
13:14:03 <EliasT> ACTION: Ben to include agenda item for approval of existing tests [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action02]
13:14:07 <EliasT> [CONTINUES]
13:14:15 <EliasT> ACTION: Ben to take a look at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Jun/0001.html to see if issue has been resolved [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action17]
13:14:17 <EliasT> [CONTINUES]
13:14:23 <EliasT> ACTION: Michael to put together a table with RDFa / XHTML1.1/2 / HTML [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action18]
13:14:25 <EliasT> [DONE]
13:14:25 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFaInHTML Feature comparison table
13:14:34 <EliasT> ACTION: Ralph to update archive header page [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action04]
13:14:43 <EliasT> [DONE]
13:14:55 <RalphS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/ TF Mail Archive
13:15:24 <EliasT> ACTION: Simone to update FAQ wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]
13:15:56 <EliasT> [DONE]
13:16:00 <RalphS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Mar/0076.html "Wiki Updated" [SImone]
13:16:29 <EliasT> Wing to take a look at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Jun/0008.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action16]
13:16:37 <EliasT> ACTION: Wing to take a look at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Jun/0008.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action16]
13:16:41 <EliasT> [DONE]
13:17:01 <RalphS> Wing: there is a test
13:17:38 <RalphS> ACTION: Wing add a property to the test case schema for tracking origin and approval of an individual test [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
13:17:43 <RalphS> Wing: just need to decide a name
13:17:47 <RalphS> Elias: DAWG defined one
13:17:56 <EliasT> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Wing add a property to the test case schema for tracking origin and approval of an individual test [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
13:18:05 <EliasT> [CONTINUES]  ACTION: Ben start a list of RDF/XML features that are not supported by RDFa [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-minutes.html#action01]
13:18:16 <EliasT> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]
13:18:39 <EliasT> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Elias to send email to list with use case from IBM [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action10]
13:18:56 <RalphS> Elias: I'm working with the guy who wrote the FireFox operator extension that parses microformats
13:19:09 <RalphS> ... I wrote a new javascript RDFa parser
13:19:17 <RalphS> ... might be able to get this into operator
13:19:57 <EliasT> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Mark produce more examples of applicability of n-ary relations from IPTC documents [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/23-htmltf-minutes.html#action08]
13:20:05 <EliasT> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Mark produce RDFa XHTML 1.1 module and spec [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action06]
13:20:40 <Mark> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Group/2007/ED-xhtml-rdfa-20070317/
13:20:46 <Mark> That's the spec.
13:21:44 <EliasT> [DONE] Mark is done with the spec part.
13:22:07 <EliasT> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Mark produce RDFa XHTML 1.1 module using XML Schema [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action06]
13:22:24 <RalphS> agenda+ RDFa module spec
13:24:23 <EliasT> [DONE] ACTION: Mark to put M12N schema up somewhere, and tell us where [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/29-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]
13:24:45 <EliasT> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Mark to put M12N schema up somewhere, and tell us where [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/29-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]
13:25:06 <EliasT> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Michael continue work on the FAQ template that Elias started [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/08-htmltf-minutes.html#action10]
13:25:47 <EliasT> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Michael to prepare RDF/XML - RDFa comparison wiki page [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#action09]
13:25:56 <EliasT> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Steven to put together sample XHTML2 doc with all mime type, etc. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]
13:25:57 <RalphS> zakim, move to next agendum
13:25:57 <Zakim> agendum 2. "RDFa module spec" taken up [from RalphS]
13:27:12 <Mark> http://www.formsplayer.com/node/213
13:27:27 <EliasT> [DONE] ACTION: Mark to put M12N schema up somewhere, and tell us where [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/29-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]
13:27:45 <RalphS> zakim, take up agendum 2
13:27:45 <Zakim> agendum 2. "RDFa module spec" taken up [from RalphS]
13:28:21 <EliasT> MarkB: Shane did a little bit more than we asked
13:29:00 <EliasT> ... for example he has restricted multiple values in rel attributes
13:29:16 <EliasT> ... we should discuss this on both lists
13:29:54 <EliasT> q+
13:30:08 <EliasT> Zakim, ack RalphS
13:30:08 <Zakim> I see EliasT on the speaker queue
13:30:55 <EliasT> RalphS: It would be more convenient if technical discussions on RDFa module be done on RDFa mailing list
13:31:33 <EliasT> Zakim, mute me
13:31:33 <Zakim> EliasT should now be muted
13:32:12 <EliasT> RalphS: We still want a stand-alone RDFa specification, maybe extracting Shane's document would be a fine thing to do
13:34:28 <EliasT> Zakim, unmute me
13:34:28 <Zakim> EliasT should no longer be muted
13:34:38 <EliasT> ACTION: MarkB to ask Shane to make his document public
13:34:59 <RalphS> Elias: does this editors' draft refer to XHTML 1 or XHTML 2?
13:35:09 <RalphS> Mark: it's all about XHTML Modularization 1.1 
13:35:26 <RalphS> ... this RDFa module conforms to the approach of XHTML Modularization 1.1
13:35:36 <RalphS> ... it may also conform to XHTML 2
13:36:20 <RalphS> ... the intention for the XHTML 2 spec is to have it cite the XHTML 1.2 modules that are part of XHTML 2
13:38:30 <RalphS> agenda+ XMLliteral
13:39:15 <RalphS> zakim, move to next agendum
13:39:15 <Zakim> agendum 3. "XMLliteral" taken up [from RalphS]
13:41:52 <RalphS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Feb/0003 Mark's 4 Feb summary of XMLLiteral vs. plain literal
13:42:38 <EliasT> MarkB: The starting point of RDFa has always been the RDFa author. How do we take the things that RDFa authors markup and generate triples.
13:43:06 <EliasT> ... but I think the discussion has been on the reverse.. how do I as an RDF author encode this in XHTML.
13:43:43 <EliasT> Zakim, q+ should we define the RDFa author?
13:43:43 <Zakim> EliasT, you typed too many words without commas; I suspect you forgot to start with 'to ...'
13:43:47 <EliasT> Zakim, q+ should we define the RDFa author
13:43:47 <Zakim> EliasT, you typed too many words without commas; I suspect you forgot to start with 'to ...'
13:43:56 <EliasT> Zakim, q+, should we define the RDFa author
13:43:56 <Zakim> EliasT, you typed too many words without commas; I suspect you forgot to start with 'to ...'
13:47:41 <EliasT> RalphS: I wanted to make sure we found the places in the document about rdf:XMLLiteral
13:47:48 <EliasT> ... http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/syntax/ in 5.1.1.1
13:49:00 <EliasT> MarkB: We have two methods: if you use @content that's a plain literal, if no datatype specified rdf:XMLLiteral.
13:49:34 <RalphS> Elias: I think we're agreeing that the current document says the default is XMLLiteral
13:49:43 <RalphS> ... the question is whether we should change this decision
13:50:37 <RalphS> Mark: the examples further down in 5.1.1 (e-mc2) don't work if we change to plain literals
13:51:58 <RalphS> Elias: several commentors have said that they don't understand the rationale for using XMLLiteral
13:53:27 <RalphS> ... they're suggesting that if no datatype is specified, it should be treated as a plain literal
13:53:53 <RalphS> ... if the author wants to retain the markup, he must specify XMLLiteral
13:54:23 <Mark> Mark: But you have once again summarised what you desire, and not why it is logically correct.
13:55:46 <RalphS> Elias: it is better to go to plain literals because it will result in less markup in the document
13:56:04 <Mark> zakim, q+
13:56:04 <Zakim> I see RalphS, Mark on the speaker queue
13:56:40 <RalphS> ... want the least amount of markup for the common case, which will be plain literals
13:56:53 <RalphS> Mark: you'd need to show why you need plain literals
13:57:34 <RalphS> ... DanBri noted that FOAF was really using typed literals even though his first reaction was that it was using plain literals
13:58:10 <RalphS> ... I dispute the idea that plain literals are really the most common
13:58:30 <RalphS> Elias: it could be the case that people are not aware of what they're really using
13:58:46 <RalphS> ... what about problem of setting language if you're not using XMLLiteral?
13:58:53 <RalphS> s/not using/using/
13:59:24 <RalphS> Mark: ideal solution would be to allow both and use plain wherever there's no XML markup and XMLliteral when there is XML markup
13:59:48 <Steven> Steven has joined #rdfa
13:59:57 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
13:59:57 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
13:59:59 <Zakim> +Steven
14:02:00 <Zakim> -Ralph
14:02:33 <EliasT> ACTION: Elias to look for cases where plain literal is more of a common use.
14:02:54 <Steven> Apologies for missing the call!
14:02:59 <Mark> Mark: I wasn't saying that FOAF used typed literals, but that the notion of 'literal' encompasses both plain and typed.
14:03:05 <Steven> The hour daylight savings did it again!
14:03:13 <Steven> I forgot to reset the alarm
14:03:33 <Steven> rrsagent, pointer?
14:03:33 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2007/03/19-rdfa-irc#T14-03-33
14:22:42 <EliasT> ACTION: MarkB to work rdf:label back into RDFa syntax when using @content
14:31:11 <EliasT> RRSAgent, please generate minutes
14:31:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/03/19-rdfa-minutes.html EliasT
14:31:37 <Zakim> -EliasT
14:31:39 <Zakim> -Mark
14:31:41 <Zakim> -wing
14:31:42 <Zakim> -Steven
14:31:43 <Zakim> -Simone
14:31:45 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)9:00AM has ended
14:31:47 <Zakim> Attendees were Ralph, wing, EliasT, Simone, Mark, Steven
14:32:30 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:32:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/03/19-rdfa-minutes.html Steven
14:56:10 <EliasT> EliasT has left #rdfa