IRC log of wai-wcag on 2007-03-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:49:29 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
19:49:30 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/03/15-wai-wcag-irc
19:49:35 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make log world
19:49:40 [MichaelC]
meeting: WAI WCAG
19:49:55 [MichaelC]
chair: Gregg_Vanderheiden, Loretta_Guarino_Reid
19:50:31 [MichaelC]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2007JanMar/0193.html
19:50:56 [MichaelC]
agenda+ Announcements, Questions, and Updates
19:51:14 [MichaelC]
agenda+ Misc. Questions for 08 March 2007 <http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20070308-teamc/results>
19:51:29 [MichaelC]
agenda+ 15 March 2007 Miscellaneous Survey <http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20070315misc/results>
19:53:09 [MichaelC]
jslatin - I am able to load survey; what error message did you get?
19:56:00 [Gregg]
Gregg has joined #wai-wcag
19:58:48 [Zakim]
WAI_WCAG()3:00PM has now started
19:58:55 [Zakim]
+Don_Evans
19:59:08 [Zakim]
+Cooper
19:59:52 [Zakim]
+Ben
20:00:06 [Zakim]
+John_Slatin
20:00:21 [Zakim]
-Ben
20:00:59 [Zakim]
+Ben
20:01:08 [Zakim]
+David_MacDonald
20:01:09 [Loretta]
Loretta has joined #wai-wcag
20:01:18 [ben]
zakim, I am Ben
20:01:18 [Zakim]
ok, ben, I now associate you with Ben
20:01:21 [ben]
zakim, mute me
20:01:21 [Zakim]
Ben should now be muted
20:01:53 [Zakim]
+Christophe_Strobbe
20:01:55 [Zakim]
+Loretta_Guarino_Reid
20:02:38 [Zakim]
+Bruce_Bailey
20:02:46 [David_MacDonald]
David_MacDonald has joined #wai-wcag
20:02:46 [ben]
zakim, unmute me
20:02:46 [Zakim]
Ben should no longer be muted
20:02:53 [Zakim]
+??P9
20:03:13 [bengt]
bengt has joined #wai-wcag
20:03:15 [becka11y]
becka11y has joined #wai-wcag
20:04:08 [Zakim]
+ +1.301.779.aaaa
20:04:41 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:04:56 [Zakim]
+Becky_Gibson
20:05:06 [bengt]
zakim, [IPcaller is Bengt_Farre
20:05:06 [Zakim]
+Bengt_Farre; got it
20:05:13 [Zakim]
+Judy
20:05:55 [David_MacDonald]
Scrie: David
20:06:09 [David_MacDonald]
Scibe: David
20:06:23 [David_MacDonald]
Scribe: David
20:06:41 [MichaelC]
zakim, take up item 1
20:06:41 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Announcements, Questions, and Updates" taken up [from MichaelC]
20:07:25 [Sofia]
Sofia has joined #wai-wcag
20:08:13 [Zakim]
+Sofia_Celic
20:09:58 [rellero_]
rellero_ has joined #wai-wcag
20:10:12 [Zakim]
+Alex_Li
20:10:14 [MichaelC]
scribeOptions: -scribeOnly
20:10:35 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:10:54 [rellero_]
Zakim, [IPcaller] is Roberto_Ellero
20:10:54 [Zakim]
+Roberto_Ellero; got it
20:11:04 [rellero_]
Zakim, mute Roberto_Ellero
20:11:04 [Zakim]
Roberto_Ellero should now be muted
20:11:35 [David_MacDonald]
no telconference next week.
20:12:54 [David_MacDonald]
No meeting at CSUN
20:12:55 [MichaelC]
zakim, next item
20:12:55 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Misc. Questions for 08 March 2007 <http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20070308-teamc/results>" taken up [from MichaelC]
20:13:31 [David_MacDonald]
Resolution: accept 906 as proposed
20:13:44 [David_MacDonald]
topic: 1182
20:14:47 [MichaelC]
URL correction: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20070308misc/results
20:15:00 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
20:19:31 [David_MacDonald]
Resolution: close 1182 as proposed
20:20:10 [David_MacDonald]
lc-1183
20:22:08 [ben]
q+ to say, "assign action to add clarification to Understanding document?"
20:22:49 [Zakim]
+Alex_Li.a
20:22:52 [Zakim]
-Alex_Li
20:26:14 [David_MacDonald]
action: David, Michael and ben (ping Sean) to work on 1183 contrast on gradients
20:27:10 [Zakim]
-Ben
20:27:31 [Zakim]
+Ben.a
20:27:33 [David_MacDonald]
LC-id=1285
20:27:48 [David_MacDonald]
Topic: LC1285
20:28:01 [MichaelC]
s/lc-1183/topic: lc-1183
20:29:19 [ben]
q+
20:30:40 [David_MacDonald]
action: Ben to update contrast examples, put labels on simulations
20:31:09 [David_MacDonald]
s/simulations/simulations on Trace web site
20:32:50 [David_MacDonald]
action: Michael to add resources on colour blindness to HOw to Meet doc
20:34:25 [David_MacDonald]
topic:1284
20:35:24 [judy]
judy has joined #wai-wcag
20:36:15 [David_MacDonald]
Resolution: Accept 1285 as proposed
20:37:33 [ben]
Topic: Revised Conformance Criterion 4
20:37:50 [Loretta]
ack ben
20:37:50 [Zakim]
Ben, you wanted to say, "assign action to add clarification to Understanding document?" and to
20:41:48 [ben]
q+
20:44:01 [David_MacDonald]
q+
20:44:24 [Loretta]
ack bruce
20:45:40 [Loretta]
ack ben
20:45:56 [Loretta]
q+ bruce
20:46:12 [Loretta]
ack david
20:49:32 [Loretta]
ack bruce
20:50:04 [Zakim]
+Gregg_Vanderheiden
20:50:31 [Loretta]
ack c
20:50:37 [Loretta]
ack a
20:52:47 [judy]
zakim, who's making noise?
20:52:58 [Zakim]
judy, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Gregg_Vanderheiden (70%), Alex_Li (5%)
20:53:21 [Gregg]
Q
20:53:26 [Gregg]
q+
20:59:18 [Loretta]
ack gregg
20:59:23 [Loretta]
ack c
21:02:24 [judy]
q+
21:03:51 [Loretta]
ack j
21:04:01 [Gregg]
q
21:04:02 [David_MacDonald]
q+
21:04:07 [Gregg]
q+
21:04:17 [Loretta]
ack c
21:05:20 [Loretta]
q+
21:05:31 [Loretta]
ack d
21:05:50 [Loretta]
ack g
21:07:40 [Zakim]
-Katie_Haritos-Shea
21:08:52 [Loretta]
ack l
21:09:10 [Loretta]
ack j
21:09:57 [Zakim]
+Katie_Haritos-Shea
21:10:55 [MichaelC]
q+
21:11:23 [Loretta]
ack m
21:12:03 [Zakim]
-Don_Evans
21:13:04 [jslatin]
q+
21:14:30 [Loretta]
ack j
21:16:08 [MichaelC]
q+ to say content negotiation does this, but is rarely used
21:16:28 [Zakim]
-Bruce_Bailey
21:17:03 [Zakim]
+Bruce_Bailey
21:17:14 [Loretta]
ack m
21:17:14 [Zakim]
MichaelC, you wanted to say content negotiation does this, but is rarely used
21:18:13 [Gregg]
q+
21:18:18 [Loretta]
ack b
21:18:38 [Loretta]
ack g
21:20:05 [Loretta]
Alternate Versions: If a Web page within the scope of a claim does not meet all of the required WCAG 2.0 success criteria at the level claimed, then a mechanism to obtain an alternate version that does can be derived from the nonconforming content or its location, and that mechanism meets all success criteria at the level claimed.
21:21:05 [becka11y]
q+
21:21:17 [Zakim]
-Tim_Boland
21:23:22 [Loretta]
ack b
21:29:59 [MichaelC]
q+
21:33:20 [MichaelC]
ack me
21:37:07 [David_MacDonald]
resolution: accept 1284 as amended...on the condition that only techniques that requires technical knowledge (such linking from the non-conforming content) are listed as sufficient, such as links from the inaccessible page. In the future other techniques can be added to the non normitive how to meet document.
21:37:09 [David_MacDonald]
CC-4 Alternate Versions: If a Web page within the scope of a claim does not meet all of the required WCAG 2.0 success criteria at the level claimed, then a mechanism to obtain an alternate version that meets the success criteria can be derived from the nonconforming content or its URI, and that mechanism meets all success criteria at the level claimed.
21:39:29 [Gregg]
q+
21:40:08 [ben]
q+
21:40:08 [Loretta]
ack c
21:40:15 [Loretta]
ack g
21:42:44 [Loretta]
ack b
21:47:15 [Zakim]
-Alex_Li
21:47:21 [David_MacDonald]
Resolution: accept Revised Understanding CC4 (Intent, Techniques) as amended
21:48:08 [David_MacDonald]
Topic: LC 465, 466
21:49:56 [David_MacDonald]
resolution: accept LC-465 and LC-466: alternate version as primary version as proposed
21:50:07 [David_MacDonald]
Topic:514, 515
21:50:38 [jslatin]
me notes "Web unit" should be "Web page"
21:51:23 [David_MacDonald]
Resolution: accept 514 and 515 as amended with the change of web unit to web page
21:51:42 [David_MacDonald]
Topic: 534
21:55:13 [David_MacDonald]
Michael somment is I had an action item about content negotiation and probably have myself to blame for missing the boat. But, it still needs adjustment. Other people have expressed concern with "the Web page that is returned when no negotiation is conducted", because negotiation is always conducted. I think we can work around it by changing that phrase to "the <ins>default</ins> Web page...
21:55:15 [David_MacDonald]
...that is returned <del>when no negotiation is conducted</del>". The note about multiple language versions should still stand, however.
21:55:35 [David_MacDonald]
Resolution: accept 534 as amended from Michael's comment.
21:55:48 [David_MacDonald]
s/somment/comment
21:55:55 [David_MacDonald]
topic: 545
21:56:19 [David_MacDonald]
Resolution: accept 545 as proposed
21:56:31 [David_MacDonald]
topic: 947
21:58:28 [David_MacDonald]
action: David rewrite response to 947 to change wording without the meaning
21:58:53 [David_MacDonald]
resolution: accept 947 as proposed
22:01:39 [Zakim]
-Christophe_Strobbe
22:02:26 [David_MacDonald]
resolution: not accept the technique New Technique: Providing both the non-conforming version and the conforming version in the same location
22:02:43 [Zakim]
+Christophe_Strobbe
22:05:52 [David_MacDonald]
Action: Ben to fix test New Technique: Using .htaccess to ensure that the only way to access non-conforming content is from conforming content , so that it meets the technique no ththe SC
22:06:33 [David_MacDonald]
Resolution: accept technique "Using .htaccess to ensure that the only way to access non-conforming content is from conforming content" as amended
22:07:05 [David_MacDonald]
Topic: definition of we page.
22:07:57 [David_MacDonald]
s/no ththe SC/no the SC, and twek for readability entire techniques
22:08:12 [David_MacDonald]
s/twek/tweak
22:11:09 [Zakim]
-Katie_Haritos-Shea
22:12:29 [Zakim]
+Katie_Haritos-Shea
22:12:31 [David_MacDonald]
Resolution: accept definition of web page as amended
22:14:44 [David_MacDonald]
Resolution: accept F 16 as proposed
22:15:06 [David_MacDonald]
Topic: Combined Techniques: Failure of 1.3.1 due to using changes in text presentation to convey information without using the appropriate markup or text
22:15:39 [Zakim]
-Judy
22:17:00 [becka11y]
q+
22:17:15 [becka11y]
http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=Failure_of_1.3.1_due_to_using_changes_in_text_presentation_to_convey_information_without_using_the_appropriate_markup_or_text#Failure_Example_1:_Text_styled_with_increased_font_size_and_weight_used_as_headings
22:18:26 [Christophe]
q+
22:19:26 [Loretta]
ack c
22:24:59 [becka11y]
ack b
22:25:11 [David_MacDonald]
action: david and becky sort out example 1 and 3 to clean up language
22:25:56 [Zakim]
-Roberto_Ellero
22:27:55 [Loretta]
Issue 956, Issue 1524, and Issue 885, Issue 955, and Issue 960, Issue 738, Issue 1281, Issue 1282, Issue 1506, Issue 801, Issue 800, Issue 1155.
22:28:00 [David_MacDonald]
action: Gregg and John to review Sean's concerns in the how to meet for 1.1.1
22:28:01 [David_MacDonald]
Gregg says:
22:28:03 [David_MacDonald]
Not sure what non-text is that accepts user input, but which is not also a control. Do we have a definition of control?
22:28:04 [David_MacDonald]
I have a slight worry with the CAPTCHA clause - authors are not going to know how many alternates are required to ensure complete coverage.
22:28:48 [David_MacDonald]
Resolution: close 1.1.1 wording issue as proposed Issue 956, Issue 1524, and Issue 885, Issue 955, and Issue 960, Issue 738, Issue 1281, Issue 1282, Issue 1506, Issue 801, Issue 800, Issue 1155
22:31:01 [ben]
q+
22:31:17 [ben]
q-
22:35:02 [ben]
q+
22:35:17 [David_MacDonald]
q+
22:37:58 [Loretta]
ack ben
22:39:35 [David_MacDonald]
q-
22:39:36 [Loretta]
ack david
22:44:18 [Zakim]
-Katie_Haritos-Shea
22:46:41 [David_MacDonald]
Resolution: not accept new SC for text to be programatically determined goes to cynthia , ben, David to look at it and bring it back
22:47:39 [David_MacDonald]
Action: cynthia , ben, David to look at new SC for text to be programatically determined ...to look at it and bring it back
22:48:37 [David_MacDonald]
topic: 4.1.1 and "parsed unambiguously"
22:51:14 [David_MacDonald]
Resolution: bring 4.1.1 back to committee...
22:51:34 [David_MacDonald]
Action: bring 4.1.1 back to committee
22:53:42 [David_MacDonald]
topic: Response for Issues requesting a Success Criterion on validity
22:56:48 [David_MacDonald]
action: send it back to the committee (ben, gregg, and becky and others)
22:57:01 [David_MacDonald]
s/it/4.1.1
22:57:25 [Zakim]
+Katie_Haritos-Shea
22:58:53 [David_MacDonald]
q+
23:00:47 [David_MacDonald]
q-
23:03:30 [Zakim]
-Sofia_Celic
23:04:02 [MichaelC]
present: Don_Evans, Michael_Cooper, John_Slatin, Ben_Caldwell, David_MacDonald, Christophe_Strobbe, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Bruce_Bailey, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Tim_Boland, Bengt_Farre, Becky_Gibson, Judy, Sofia_Celic, Alex_Li, Roberto_Ellero, Cynthia_Shelly, Gregg_Vanderheiden
23:05:32 [David_MacDonald]
resolution: not accept as proposed, keep the original but fix it in the how to meet. Consider at level 1, take it back to sean. 2.4.6
23:05:37 [Zakim]
-Cynthia_Shelly
23:05:40 [Zakim]
-Katie_Haritos-Shea
23:05:42 [Zakim]
-Bengt_Farre
23:05:45 [Zakim]
-Bruce_Bailey
23:05:46 [bengt]
bengt has left #wai-wcag
23:05:46 [Zakim]
-John_Slatin
23:05:46 [Zakim]
-Christophe_Strobbe
23:05:47 [Zakim]
-Becky_Gibson
23:05:48 [Zakim]
-Loretta_Guarino_Reid
23:05:49 [Zakim]
-Ben_Caldwell
23:05:51 [Zakim]
-Gregg_Vanderheiden
23:05:52 [Zakim]
-David_MacDonald
23:06:16 [Zakim]
-Cooper
23:06:17 [Zakim]
WAI_WCAG()3:00PM has ended
23:06:19 [Zakim]
Attendees were Don_Evans, Cooper, Ben, John_Slatin, David_MacDonald, Christophe_Strobbe, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Bruce_Bailey, Katie_Haritos-Shea, +1.301.779.aaaa, Tim_Boland,
23:06:24 [Zakim]
... Becky_Gibson, Bengt_Farre, Judy, Sofia_Celic, Alex_Li, Roberto_Ellero, [Microsoft], Cynthia_Shelly, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Ben_Caldwell
23:07:00 [MichaelC]
zakim, bye
23:07:01 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #wai-wcag
23:07:06 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, bye
23:07:06 [RRSAgent]
I see 10 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/15-wai-wcag-actions.rdf :
23:07:06 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: David, Michael and ben (ping Sean) to work on 1183 contrast on gradients [1]
23:07:06 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/15-wai-wcag-irc#T20-26-14
23:07:06 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ben to update contrast examples, put labels on simulations [2]
23:07:06 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/15-wai-wcag-irc#T20-30-40
23:07:06 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Michael to add resources on colour blindness to HOw to Meet doc [3]
23:07:06 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/15-wai-wcag-irc#T20-32-50
23:07:06 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: David rewrite response to 947 to change wording without the meaning [4]
23:07:06 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/15-wai-wcag-irc#T21-58-28
23:07:06 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ben to fix test New Technique: Using .htaccess to ensure that the only way to access non-conforming content is from conforming content , so that it meets the technique no ththe SC [5]
23:07:06 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/15-wai-wcag-irc#T22-05-52
23:07:06 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: david and becky sort out example 1 and 3 to clean up language [6]
23:07:06 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/15-wai-wcag-irc#T22-25-11
23:07:06 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Gregg and John to review Sean's concerns in the how to meet for 1.1.1 [7]
23:07:06 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/15-wai-wcag-irc#T22-28-00
23:07:06 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: cynthia , ben, David to look at new SC for text to be programatically determined ...to look at it and bring it back [8]
23:07:06 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/15-wai-wcag-irc#T22-47-39
23:07:06 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: bring 4.1.1 back to committee [9]
23:07:06 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/15-wai-wcag-irc#T22-51-34
23:07:06 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: send it back to the committee (ben, gregg, and becky and others) [10]
23:07:06 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/15-wai-wcag-irc#T22-56-48