IRC log of wai-wcag on 2007-03-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:59:43 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
19:59:43 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/03/08-wai-wcag-irc
19:59:50 [ben_]
RRSAgent, do not start a new log
19:59:55 [ben_]
RRSAgent, make log world
20:00:05 [ben_]
zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
20:00:05 [Zakim]
ok, ben_, I see WAI_WCAG()3:00PM already started
20:00:13 [ben_]
Meeting: WCAG Weekly Telecon
20:00:27 [rellero_]
rellero_ has joined #wai-wcag
20:00:34 [Zakim]
+Don_Evans
20:00:35 [Zakim]
+Cooper
20:00:44 [Zakim]
+Judy
20:01:05 [ben_]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2007JanMar/0141.html
20:01:21 [ben_]
zakim, ??P1 is Gregg_Vanderheiden and Ben_Caldwell
20:01:21 [Zakim]
I don't understand you, ben_
20:01:45 [ben_]
zakim, ??P1 is Gregg_and_Ben
20:01:45 [Zakim]
+Gregg_and_Ben; got it
20:02:05 [ben_]
agenda+ Announcements, Questions, and Updates
20:02:15 [ben_]
agenda+ Team C Proposals for March 8
20:02:16 [Zakim]
+ +7.971.aaaa
20:02:25 [ben_]
agenda+ Team B survey for March 8
20:02:34 [ben_]
agenda+ Misc. Questions for 08 March 2007
20:02:43 [ben_]
Chair: Gregg_Vanderheiden, Loretta_Guarino_Reid
20:02:50 [ben_]
ScribeOptions: -scribeOnly
20:02:55 [Zakim]
+Bruce_Bailey
20:03:41 [Zakim]
+??P7
20:03:53 [bengt]
zakim, ??P7 is Bengt_Farre
20:03:53 [Zakim]
+Bengt_Farre; got it
20:04:02 [ben_]
Regrets: Tim_Boland
20:04:05 [Zakim]
+Christophe_Strobbe
20:04:17 [ben_]
zakim, who is on the phone?
20:04:17 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Gregg_and_Ben, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Don_Evans, Cooper, Judy, Sean_Hayes, Bruce_Bailey, Bengt_Farre, Christophe_Strobbe
20:04:54 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:04:57 [don]
don has joined #wai-wcag
20:05:14 [rellero_]
zakim, [IP caller] is Roberto_Ellero
20:05:14 [Zakim]
I don't understand '[IP caller] is Roberto_Ellero', rellero_
20:05:26 [rellero_]
04 01zakim, [IP caller is Roberto_Ellero
20:05:52 [rellero_]
zakim, ?[IP caller] is Roberto_Ellero
20:05:52 [Zakim]
I don't understand '?[IP caller] is Roberto_Ellero', rellero_
20:05:57 [rellero_]
zakim, +[IP caller is Roberto_Ellero
20:05:57 [Zakim]
I don't understand '+[IP caller is Roberto_Ellero', rellero_
20:06:14 [rellero_]
zakim, +[IP caller] is Roberto_Ellero
20:06:15 [Zakim]
I don't understand '+[IP caller] is Roberto_Ellero', rellero_
20:06:37 [rellero_]
zakim, [IPcaller] is Roberto_Ellero
20:06:37 [Zakim]
+Roberto_Ellero; got it
20:06:47 [rellero_]
zakim, mute Roberto_Ellero
20:06:47 [Zakim]
Roberto_Ellero should now be muted
20:08:24 [ben_]
zakim, take up agendum 1
20:08:24 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Announcements, Questions, and Updates" taken up [from ben_]
20:09:08 [Christophe]
scribe: Christophe
20:10:40 [Christophe]
There will be a technical meeting between representatives of the WCAG WG and people who filed comments in the cognitive area to get clarification and suggestions to help us in closing the issues. All members of the Working Group are invited to participate. (Walkthrough of technical issues). Next Tuesday, 3 PM Eastern US Time.
20:12:08 [Zakim]
+??P12
20:12:17 [Christophe]
There will be another meeting, a WAI meeting, with people who commented on cognitive-related issues in Last Call Working Draft or who had offered to help.
20:13:05 [Christophe]
People from other WGs (EO, ...) are also invited: contact Judy Brewer.
20:13:32 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
20:13:44 [MichaelC]
zakim, [IBM is Andi_Snow-Weaver
20:13:44 [Zakim]
+Andi_Snow-Weaver; got it
20:13:52 [Andi]
Andi has joined #wai-wcag
20:15:11 [Christophe]
Need to look at W3C Process to see how formal objection will be handled. Submitters can from a variety of perspectives. After today's Team B survey, we'll see where we are on cognitive disability-related issues.
20:15:49 [Christophe]
s/can from/came from/
20:18:47 [Christophe]
There is no formal meeting on 22 March.
20:19:52 [Christophe]
Zakim, next agendum
20:19:52 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Team C Proposals for March 8" taken up [from ben_]
20:19:56 [Christophe]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20070308-teamc/results
20:21:09 [Zakim]
-Bruce_Bailey
20:22:19 [Christophe]
H49: semantic markup sufficient for 1.3.1
20:22:23 [Zakim]
+Bruce_Bailey
20:26:24 [jslatin]
jslatin has joined #wai-wcag
20:26:41 [Loretta]
Loretta has joined #wai-wcag
20:28:05 [Zakim]
+John_Slatin
20:29:41 [Andi]
q+
20:29:52 [Gregg]
ack andi
20:30:29 [judy_alt]
judy_alt has joined #wai-wcag
20:31:52 [MichaelC]
action: Michael to write up technique "Separating information and structure from presentation to enable modification of presentation without altering content" for 1201
20:37:19 [Christophe]
resolution: accept as amended; amendment= what is there + add AND H49
20:38:05 [Christophe]
Failure due to omitting the alt attribute (failure for SC 1.1.1)
20:38:46 [MichaelC]
q+ to say in-element content not supported for img
20:39:18 [Gregg]
ack m
20:39:18 [Zakim]
MichaelC, you wanted to say in-element content not supported for img
20:39:54 [Gregg]
ack j
20:48:20 [Gregg]
ack j
20:54:22 [Christophe]
Resolution: accept Failure (due to omitting the alt attribute on img, area elements and input elements of type image) as amended
20:54:36 [Christophe]
Action: Ben to clean up technique to match title
20:54:50 [Zakim]
+David_MacDonald
20:55:16 [Christophe]
Mystery links (Intent of HTM SC 2.4.2)
20:56:53 [David_MacDonald]
David_MacDonald has joined #wai-wcag
21:01:15 [Christophe]
Resolution: accept John's rewording as amended.
21:01:47 [Christophe]
User-controllable data (Intent for HTM SC 2.5.3)
21:03:54 [Christophe]
Resolution: accept as amended (add definition)
21:04:56 [Andi]
Andi has joined #wai-wcag
21:05:01 [Christophe]
Action: to reformat the note as a definition
21:06:23 [Christophe]
Describing errors and creating a mechanism that allows users to jump to them (technique for SC 2.5.1)
21:06:43 [David_MacDonald]
q+
21:06:52 [Zakim]
-Bruce_Bailey
21:07:03 [Gregg]
ack d
21:07:05 [Loretta]
q+
21:07:50 [Zakim]
+Bruce_Bailey
21:10:17 [Gregg]
ack l
21:10:41 [Gregg]
ack j
21:12:21 [Loretta]
q+
21:13:52 [Loretta]
q-
21:13:54 [ben]
ben has joined #wai-wcag
21:16:02 [Christophe]
Action: David to prepare this technique as an advisory technique
21:16:14 [Christophe]
Failure of 1.3.1 due to using changes in text presentation to convey information without using the appropriate markup
21:17:40 [Christophe]
q+ if you use just presentation markup
21:18:09 [Gregg]
ack j
21:18:49 [Christophe]
q+ to say that it is still a failure if you use just presentation markup and no CSS (<font>, ...)
21:19:14 [ben]
q+
21:20:37 [ben]
q-]
21:20:39 [Gregg]
ack c
21:20:39 [Zakim]
Christophe, you wanted to say that it is still a failure if you use just presentation markup and no CSS (<font>, ...)
21:20:40 [ben]
q-
21:21:03 [Loretta]
q+
21:21:47 [Gregg]
ack l
21:24:41 [David_MacDonald]
q+
21:24:56 [Gregg]
ack d
21:26:43 [Zakim]
-Bruce_Bailey
21:28:02 [Zakim]
+Bruce_Bailey
21:29:34 [Zakim]
+??P10
21:30:00 [Christophe]
Action: David to combine F2 and F64 into a general failure, with assistance from Sean and Ben
21:30:15 [Christophe]
zakim, next agendum
21:30:15 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Team B survey for March 8" taken up [from ben_]
21:30:25 [Christophe]
Results: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20070308misc/results
21:30:49 [Christophe]
LC-1200 and LC-1203: "content is perceivable" is an oxymoron
21:31:43 [Christophe]
Results Team B survey: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/teamb20070308/results
21:32:23 [Christophe]
Survey item: Clarification of cognitive coverage in WCAG 2.0
21:33:44 [ben]
zakim, who is on the phone?
21:33:45 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Gregg_and_Ben, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Don_Evans, Cooper, Judy, Sean_Hayes, Bengt_Farre, Christophe_Strobbe, Roberto_Ellero (muted), Cynthia_Shelly,
21:33:48 [Zakim]
... Andi_Snow-Weaver, John_Slatin, David_MacDonald, Bruce_Bailey, ??P10
21:35:40 [Zakim]
-Bruce_Bailey
21:37:06 [Zakim]
+Bruce_Bailey
21:37:10 [Christophe]
Resolution: accept as amended
21:37:25 [Christophe]
Survey item: Cognitive benefits of SC 3.1.1
21:37:34 [Christophe]
Resolution: accepted unanimously
21:37:50 [Christophe]
Survey item: Cognitive benefits of SC 3.1.2
21:37:52 [Christophe]
Resolution: accepted unanimously
21:38:05 [Christophe]
Survey item: Cognitive benefits of SC 3.1.3
21:38:21 [MichaelC]
q+
21:38:49 [Zakim]
-Bruce_Bailey
21:39:10 [Zakim]
+Bruce_Bailey
21:39:18 [MichaelC]
q-
21:42:55 [judy]
q+
21:43:22 [David_MacDonald]
q+
21:43:41 [ben]
scribe: jslatin
21:44:06 [Zakim]
-Christophe_Strobbe
21:44:16 [Gregg]
ack j
21:45:57 [Gregg]
Q+
21:47:54 [Gregg]
ack g
21:47:56 [Gregg]
ack d
21:49:42 [jslatin]
action: john to add "people with CLLD who" in benefits; also update intent and benefits sections for other SC
21:50:59 [Gregg]
ack k
21:52:43 [Zakim]
-Bruce_Bailey
21:53:26 [Zakim]
+Bruce_Bailey
21:54:00 [jslatin]
resolution: 3.1.3 accepted as amended (bullet edited, bullet added)
21:54:11 [jslatin]
topic: SC 3.1.4
21:54:57 [jslatin]
resolution: accept 3.1.4 as amended
21:55:07 [jslatin]
topic: SC 3.1.5
21:55:07 [Zakim]
-Don_Evans
21:55:58 [jslatin]
topic: LC 542 (SC 3.1.5)
21:57:12 [Loretta]
q+
21:57:25 [Loretta]
q-
22:01:29 [jslatin]
resolution: accept proposal for 542 as amended
22:01:41 [jslatin]
topic: wording of SC 2.4.6
22:07:31 [Andi]
q+
22:07:41 [Gregg]
ack a
22:09:46 [Loretta]
q+
22:09:58 [Gregg]
ack c
22:09:59 [Gregg]
ack l
22:13:12 [Gregg]
ack j
22:14:22 [ben]
q+
22:14:29 [Gregg]
ack b
22:16:59 [Gregg]
ack k
22:17:00 [Loretta]
q+
22:18:08 [Loretta]
q-
22:21:10 [Zakim]
-Roberto_Ellero
22:21:16 [Gregg]
ack j
22:22:25 [Loretta]
q+
22:23:58 [Gregg]
ack l
22:25:13 [Gregg]
ack b
22:30:51 [jslatin]
action: loretta, andi, sean, ben to revising SC 2.4.6: in light of comments; include question of level
22:31:13 [jslatin]
topic: lc 470
22:31:57 [Loretta]
q+
22:32:25 [Loretta]
q-
22:34:28 [jslatin]
resolution: accept lc 470 as amended
22:34:56 [jslatin]
topic: lc 637
22:42:27 [jslatin]
resolution: accept lc 637 as amended
22:43:12 [jslatin]
topic:* Gregg LC-839, LC-841, LC-1052, LC-1289: response to SC 2.4.5 level change requests
22:43:36 [jslatin]
resolution: accept * Gregg LC-839, LC-841, LC-1052, LC-1289: response to SC 2.4.5 level change requests as proposed
22:44:05 [jslatin]
zakim, next item
22:44:05 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Misc. Questions for 08 March 2007" taken up [from ben_]
22:44:33 [Zakim]
-Bengt_Farre
22:44:49 [jslatin]
topic: lc 1200, 1203
22:44:55 [bengt]
bengt has left #wai-wcag
22:46:03 [jslatin]
resolution: accept 1200, 1203 as amended
22:46:18 [jslatin]
topic: lc 521
22:47:30 [David_MacDonald]
q+
22:48:55 [Loretta]
q+
22:49:12 [Gregg]
ack d
22:49:38 [Loretta]
q-
22:52:01 [MichaelC]
q+
22:52:42 [MichaelC]
q+ to say I get reflow or clipping because I have a minimum font size author didn't anticipate
22:53:07 [MichaelC]
q+ to say regardless of design problems, is author responsible for effects of unintended display characteristics?
22:54:01 [Loretta]
q+
22:54:11 [MichaelC]
ack me
22:54:11 [Zakim]
MichaelC, you wanted to say I get reflow or clipping because I have a minimum font size author didn't anticipate and to say regardless of design problems, is author responsible for
22:54:14 [Zakim]
... effects of unintended display characteristics?
22:56:18 [MichaelC]
ack l
22:58:29 [jslatin]
actioin: sean and gregg to talk about background
22:58:55 [jslatin]
action: sean and gregg to talk about background
22:59:04 [jslatin]
resolution: 521 accepted as proposed
22:59:16 [jslatin]
topic: 580
22:59:47 [Zakim]
-Cynthia_Shelly
23:00:07 [jslatin]
resolution: accept 580 as amended
23:00:44 [jslatin]
topic: lc 699
23:01:36 [jslatin]
resolution: LC 699 as proposed
23:01:41 [Gregg]
LC-906, 1225, 1226, 1235: Provide references/scientific fact
23:03:30 [Gregg]
ack b
23:03:32 [Zakim]
-Andi_Snow-Weaver
23:03:33 [Zakim]
-David_MacDonald
23:04:00 [Zakim]
-Judy
23:04:17 [Zakim]
-Katie_Haritos-Shea
23:04:21 [Zakim]
-Bruce_Bailey
23:04:28 [Zakim]
-Sean_Hayes
23:04:29 [Zakim]
-Gregg_and_Ben
23:04:37 [Zakim]
-Loretta_Guarino_Reid
23:04:50 [Zakim]
-John_Slatin
23:04:52 [Zakim]
-Cooper
23:04:53 [Zakim]
WAI_WCAG()3:00PM has ended
23:04:55 [Zakim]
Attendees were Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Don_Evans, Cooper, Judy, Gregg_and_Ben, +7.971.aaaa, Bruce_Bailey, Sean_Hayes, Bengt_Farre, Christophe_Strobbe, Roberto_Ellero, Cynthia_Shelly,
23:04:57 [Zakim]
... [IBM], Andi_Snow-Weaver, John_Slatin, David_MacDonald, Katie_Haritos-Shea
23:05:01 [ben]
Present: Gregg_Vanderheiden, Ben_Caldwell, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Don_Evans, Michael_Cooper, Judy_Brewer, Sean_Hayes, Bengt_Farre, Christophe_Strobbe, Roberto_Ellero, Cynthia_Shelly, Andi_Snow-Weaver, John_Slatin, David_MacDonald, Bruce_Bailey, Katie_Haritos-Shea
23:05:15 [Loretta]
Ben, do you want me to mark the closed items in the last survey and reopen it?
23:06:17 [ben]
RRSAgent, bye
23:06:17 [RRSAgent]
I see 8 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/08-wai-wcag-actions.rdf :
23:06:17 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Michael to write up technique "Separating information and structure from presentation to enable modification of presentation without altering content" for 1201 [1]
23:06:17 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/08-wai-wcag-irc#T20-31-52
23:06:17 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ben to clean up technique to match title [2]
23:06:17 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/08-wai-wcag-irc#T20-54-36
23:06:17 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: to reformat the note as a definition [3]
23:06:17 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/08-wai-wcag-irc#T21-05-01
23:06:17 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: David to prepare this technique as an advisory technique [4]
23:06:17 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/08-wai-wcag-irc#T21-16-02
23:06:17 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: David to combine F2 and F64 into a general failure, with assistance from Sean and Ben [5]
23:06:17 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/08-wai-wcag-irc#T21-30-00
23:06:17 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: john to add "people with CLLD who" in benefits; also update intent and benefits sections for other SC [6]
23:06:17 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/08-wai-wcag-irc#T21-49-42
23:06:17 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: loretta, andi, sean, ben to revising SC 2.4.6: in light of comments; include question of level [7]
23:06:17 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/08-wai-wcag-irc#T22-30-51
23:06:17 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: sean and gregg to talk about background [8]
23:06:17 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/08-wai-wcag-irc#T22-58-55