IRC log of rif on 2007-03-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:18:05 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #rif
15:18:05 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/03/06-rif-irc
15:18:13 [ChrisW]: zakim, this will be rigf
15:18:13 [Zakim]: I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, ChrisW
15:18:15 [ChrisW]: zakim, this will be rif
15:18:15 [Zakim]: ok, ChrisW; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 42 minutes
15:18:33 [ChrisW]: Meeting: RIF Telecon 06 Mar 07
15:18:43 [ChrisW]: Chair: Christian de Sainte-Marie
15:19:02 [ChrisW]: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Mar/0004.html
15:19:16 [ChrisW]: zakim, list agenda
15:19:16 [Zakim]: I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
15:19:17 [Zakim]: 2. F2F [from ChrisW]
15:19:18 [Zakim]: 3. Liason [from ChrisW]
15:19:19 [Zakim]: 4. Technical Design [from ChrisW]
15:19:20 [Zakim]: 5. UCR
15:19:21 [ChrisW]: zakim, clear agenda
15:19:22 [Zakim]: 6. RIFRAF
15:19:24 [Zakim]: 7. AOB [from ChrisW]
15:19:25 [Zakim]: agenda cleared
15:19:37 [ChrisW]: agenda+ Admin
15:19:43 [ChrisW]: agenda+ F2F
15:19:48 [ChrisW]: agenda+ Liason
15:19:55 [ChrisW]: agenda+ F2F5 Debrief
15:20:03 [ChrisW]: agenda+ CORE
15:20:09 [ChrisW]: agenda+ UCR
15:20:14 [ChrisW]: agenda+ RIFRAF
15:20:18 [ChrisW]: agenda+ AOB
15:25:11 [ChrisW]: rrsagent, make minutes
15:25:11 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/03/06-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
15:25:35 [ChrisW]: rrsagent, make logs public
15:45:41 [patranja]: patranja has joined #rif
15:55:49 [Harold]: Harold has joined #rif
15:58:25 [DavidHirtle]: DavidHirtle has joined #rif
15:58:51 [AlexKozlenkov]: AlexKozlenkov has joined #rif
15:59:07 [Zakim]: SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
15:59:14 [Zakim]: +[NRCC]
15:59:24 [Harold]: zakim, [NRCC] is me
15:59:24 [Zakim]: +Harold; got it
15:59:54 [Deborah_Nichols]: Deborah_Nichols has joined #rif
16:00:25 [Zakim]: +Deborah_Nichols
16:00:57 [Zakim]: +[IBM]
16:00:59 [LeoraMorgenstern]: LeoraMorgenstern has joined #rif
16:01:08 [ChrisW]: zakim, ibm is temporarily me
16:01:08 [Zakim]: +ChrisW; got it
16:01:18 [josb]: josb has joined #rif
16:01:35 [StellaMitchell]: StellaMitchell has joined #rif
16:01:50 [ChrisW]: zakim, who is on the phone?
16:01:50 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Harold, Deborah_Nichols (muted), ChrisW
16:02:07 [Zakim]: +??P17
16:02:11 [Harold]: Hi Deborah, Thanks again for helping to organize things at MITRE: My cab stopped at MITRE 2 (because the driver was given _its_ street address), but the MITRE 1 receptionist saw the cab and sent me there.
16:02:16 [DaveReynolds]: DaveReynolds has joined #rif
16:02:28 [Zakim]: +josb
16:02:31 [Zakim]: + +49.892.180.aaaa
16:02:33 [Hassan]: Hassan has joined #rif
16:02:35 [Zakim]: +Leora_Morgenstern
16:02:40 [Zakim]: +[IBM]
16:02:50 [StellaMitchell]: zakim, [ibm] is temporarily me
16:02:50 [Zakim]: +StellaMitchell; got it
16:02:55 [Zakim]: +??P11
16:02:57 [Zakim]: +Hassan_Ait-Kaci
16:03:14 [LeoraMorgenstern]: zakim, mute me
16:03:17 [Zakim]: +Dave_Reynolds (was ??P11)
16:03:23 [Zakim]: Leora_Morgenstern should now be muted
16:03:40 [AllenGinsberg]: AllenGinsberg has joined #rif
16:03:50 [ChrisW]: Scribenick: Hassan
16:03:56 [pfps]: pfps has joined #rif
16:04:05 [ChrisW]: Scribe: Hassan Ait-Kaci
16:04:15 [ChrisW]: zakim, who is here?
16:04:15 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Harold, Deborah_Nichols (muted), ChrisW, DavidHirtle, josb (muted), PaulaP (muted), Leora_Morgenstern (muted), StellaMitchell (muted), Dave_Reynolds,
16:04:19 [Zakim]: ... Hassan_Ait-Kaci
16:04:22 [Zakim]: On IRC I see pfps, AllenGinsberg, Hassan, DaveReynolds, StellaMitchell, josb, LeoraMorgenstern, Deborah_Nichols, AlexKozlenkov, DavidHirtle, Harold, PaulaP, RRSAgent, ChrisW, MoZ,
16:04:25 [Zakim]: ... rifbot, Zakim
16:04:27 [Zakim]: +??P52
16:04:32 [pfps]: zakim, ??P52 is me
16:04:33 [Zakim]: +pfps; got it
16:04:45 [Zakim]: +Allen_Ginsberg
16:05:03 [ChrisW]: zakim, next item
16:05:03 [Zakim]: I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, ChrisW
16:05:06 [AllenGinsberg]: zakim, mute me
16:05:06 [Zakim]: Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
16:05:09 [ChrisW]: q?
16:05:13 [ChrisW]: acl ??
16:05:18 [ChrisW]: ack ??
16:05:22 [ChrisW]: zakim, next item
16:05:22 [Zakim]: agendum 1. "Admin" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:05:36 [PaulVincent]: PaulVincent has joined #rif
16:05:53 [Zakim]: +Gary_Hallmark
16:06:33 [Hassan]: Next week telecon will occur at "different" times (in the US set forward 1 hour)
16:07:00 [Hassan]: In Europe, meetings will start 1 hour later for two weeks (next, and next to next)
16:07:01 [ChrisW]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Feb/att-0084/rif20070220-minutes.html
16:07:25 [Hassan]: No objecttions to accepting minutes
16:07:32 [ChrisW]: RESOLUTION: accept Feb 20 telecon minutes
16:07:39 [Hassan]: s/objecttions/objections/
16:07:43 [ChrisW]: zakim, next item
16:07:43 [Zakim]: agendum 3. "Liason" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:08:03 [ChrisW]: zakim, take up item 2
16:08:03 [Zakim]: agendum 2. "F2F" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:08:04 [Hassan]: s/Liason/Liaison/
16:08:49 [Zakim]: +??P2
16:08:54 [Hassan]: F2F6 meeting discussion: 1 proposal from DERI (in Innsbruck colocated with ESWS)
16:09:33 [sandro]: sandro has joined #rif
16:09:47 [Zakim]: +Sandro
16:10:01 [Hassan]: Christian: has problems connecting (port should be 6665)
16:10:46 [Hassan]: Will decide location of F2F6 on March 20 telcon
16:11:02 [csma]: csma has joined #rif
16:11:32 [Hassan]: ESWC colocation means scheduling constraint problems
16:11:58 [GaryHallmark]: GaryHallmark has joined #rif
16:12:26 [Hassan]: We shouls also think about F2F7+ (location - Korea?)
16:12:40 [Hassan]: s/shouls/should/
16:13:19 [Hassan]: Choice: Europe and N. America (for F2F's)
16:13:50 [ChrisW]: zakim, take up item 3
16:13:50 [Zakim]: agendum 3. "Liason" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:14:08 [Hassan]: Christian: if we have one more in US and 1 more in Europe that would be even
16:14:15 [Hassan]: Liaisons?
16:14:27 [ChrisW]: zakim, who is on the phone?
16:14:27 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Harold, Deborah_Nichols (muted), ChrisW, DavidHirtle, josb (muted), PaulaP (muted), Leora_Morgenstern (muted), StellaMitchell (muted), Dave_Reynolds,
16:14:31 [Zakim]: ... Hassan_Ait-Kaci, pfps, Allen_Ginsberg (muted), Gary_Hallmark, ??P2, Sandro
16:15:13 [PaulVincent]: PaulV: not on phone: see other email about PRR
16:15:19 [ChrisW]: zakim, ??P2 is probably csma
16:15:19 [Zakim]: +csma?; got it
16:15:24 [Hassan]: Christian: Sandro reported that the incubator on uncertainty will start but does not know when. Should we have a liaison?
16:16:07 [Hassan]: Christian: Ensure that RIF is synchronized with that
16:16:21 [Hassan]: Sandro: they should worry about us more that we them
16:16:32 [ChrisW]: zakim, take up item 4
16:16:32 [Zakim]: agendum 4. "F2F5 Debrief" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:16:41 [csma]: ack csma?
16:16:42 [Hassan]: No more liaison reporting.
16:17:11 [Hassan]: ChrisW: We accomplished a great deal
16:17:30 [sandro]: s/they should worry about us more that we them/the obligation is more on them to coordinate with us as necessary, than us with them/
16:17:47 [Hassan]: ChrisW and Christian still working on cleaning up the minutes
16:18:17 [Hassan]: ChrisW: sent mail to the RIF summing up the main points
16:19:09 [Hassan]: ChrisW: ... we agreed to publish that WD assuming all actions are carried out to completion satisfactorily.
16:19:23 [Hassan]: New issues will be carried to the next WD.
16:19:45 [Hassan]: This does NOT mean that CORE is finalized. Only that WD1 is.
16:20:11 [Hassan]: Chrisw: quickly run through issues
16:20:59 [Hassan]: Chrisw: 1st resolution : we agreed to remove the DTD from the WD1; will publish an XML schema
16:21:33 [Zakim]: -Leora_Morgenstern
16:21:49 [csma]: resolutions from F2F5 are listed in the "Current" section of http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/FrontPage
16:22:12 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
16:22:31 [Zakim]: +Leora_Morgenstern
16:24:19 [Hassan]: Christian: the version Sandro circulated has some minor errors - they've been fixed.
16:24:27 [Hassan]: .. or they will be soon
16:25:54 [Hassan]: ChrisW: Questions/Comments?
16:25:59 [Hassan]: None voiced...
16:26:51 [Hassan]: 3rd day on RIF/RAF - Axel Polleres presented his approach
16:27:25 [Hassan]: ChrisW: many liked the approach using Prolog but some found it too fine-grained
16:27:40 [Hassan]: ChrisW: still need a "higher" view
16:28:19 [Hassan]: ChrisW: last session: RDF/OWL compatibility - check out the wiki
16:28:27 [ChrisW]: zakim, take up item 5
16:28:27 [Zakim]: agendum 5. "CORE" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:28:27 [Hassan]: No questions/comments
16:28:44 [Hassan]: Action review
16:29:08 [agiurca]: agiurca has joined #rif
16:30:08 [Hassan]: Action-251 completed
16:30:25 [Hassan]: Action-250 completed
16:30:35 [Zakim]: +agiurca
16:30:43 [agiurca]: zakim, mute me
16:30:43 [Zakim]: agiurca should now be muted
16:30:49 [Hassan]: Action-246 continued
16:31:09 [Hassan]: Action-244 completed
16:31:25 [Hassan]: Action-243 completed
16:31:46 [Hassan]: Action-242 completed
16:31:52 [Hassan]: Action-242 NOT completed
16:31:58 [Hassan]: Action-242 continued
16:32:06 [Hassan]: Action-241 completed
16:33:27 [Hassan]: Christian: anonymous variable issue completed? Not so sure ... need to keep track
16:34:09 [Hassan]: ChrisW: We only agreed to remove Anon. Vars from WD1 not CORE
16:36:01 [Harold]: ... the intent behind this condition language is that it will be shared among the bodies of the rules expressed in the envisioned RIF dialects LP, FO, PR, RR, and can also be used to uniformly express integrity constraints (IC) and queries.
16:36:12 [Hassan]: Action-232 continued
16:36:44 [Hassan]: Christian: argued on why Action-232 still needs work
16:37:14 [Hassan]: Christian: thinks the wording is misleading
16:37:43 [Hassan]: Harold: will work on a better wording
16:38:09 [Hassan]: Action-231 completed
16:38:50 [Hassan]: Action-230 continued
16:39:08 [Hassan]: End of action review
16:39:18 [Hassan]: Harold? update ...
16:39:49 [Hassan]: Harold: Michael is making good progress editing and so am I
16:40:25 [Hassan]: Harold: the new organization looks better
16:40:41 [Harold]: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Core/Positive_Conditions#preview
16:40:46 [Hassan]: ChrisW: What link points there?
16:41:14 [Hassan]: Harold: AS notation is immediately rendered as UML
16:41:22 [csma]: Harold: "...among the bodies of the rules expressed in future RIF dialects. Possible dialects that have been considered so far include LP, FO, PR and RR; the condition language could also be used to unfirmly express integrity contraints and queries".
16:41:35 [Hassan]: ChrisW: very nice ...
16:41:41 [Harold]: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Core/Horn_Rules
16:41:44 [ChrisW]: zakim, take up item 6
16:41:44 [Zakim]: agendum 6. "UCR" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:41:46 [Hassan]: ChrisW: any other topic?
16:41:50 [Hassan]: Move on
16:41:57 [Hassan]: UCR - Allen?
16:41:59 [AllenGinsberg]: yes
16:42:04 [ChrisW]: zakim, who is on the phone?
16:42:04 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Harold, Deborah_Nichols (muted), ChrisW, DavidHirtle, josb (muted), PaulaP (muted), StellaMitchell (muted), Dave_Reynolds, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, pfps, Allen_Ginsberg
16:42:06 [AllenGinsberg]: zakim, unmute me
16:42:08 [Zakim]: ... (muted), Gary_Hallmark, csma?, Sandro, PaulVincent, Leora_Morgenstern (muted), agiurca (muted)
16:42:10 [Zakim]: Allen_Ginsberg should no longer be muted
16:42:27 [LeoraMorgenstern]: due nexdt week
16:42:36 [Hassan]: Action-261 continued
16:42:52 [LeoraMorgenstern]: Well, thank you Christian.
16:43:59 [Hassan]: ChrisW: ate the F2F we decided not to publish the new version of the UCR draft
16:44:07 [Hassan]: s/ate/at/
16:45:07 [Hassan]: Action-267 continued (reorganize document -- mumbo jumbo)
16:45:38 [LeoraMorgenstern]: Right -- the duplicate actions are my actions.
16:45:46 [Hassan]: Action-261 and Action-236 are duplicate and continued
16:46:00 [Hassan]: Action-235 continued
16:46:21 [Hassan]: Action-234 (duplicate with Action-237) continued
16:46:50 [Hassan]: MoZ: action to review the UCR document?
16:46:57 [agiurca]: Review UCR agiurca
16:47:34 [Hassan]: Allen: nothing to report - will do actions for next week
16:47:48 [csma]: zakim, unmute me
16:47:48 [Zakim]: csma should no longer be muted
16:47:49 [agiurca]: I know. thanks
16:48:02 [Hassan]: ChrisW: Adrian, we reviewed your comments and used them to amend the stuff
16:48:28 [Hassan]: Christian: when is the WD3 due?
16:48:51 [Hassan]: ChrisW: let's discuss this next week when we do the changes
16:49:11 [Hassan]: Allen: pls - I need feedback - make sure you read the good page
16:49:19 [ChrisW]: zakim, take up item 7
16:49:19 [Zakim]: agendum 7. "RIFRAF" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:49:22 [AllenGinsberg]: zakim mute me
16:49:48 [AllenGinsberg]: zakim, mute me
16:49:48 [Zakim]: Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
16:49:56 [Hassan]: ChrisW: we had a nice RifRaf session - Axel's slides focused on syntax
16:50:23 [Hassan]: ChrisW: seems to be a nice way to identify semantic features of languages
16:51:07 [Hassan]: ChrisW: e.g. OWL dialect identification - Axel's works is a promising 1st step for RIF
16:51:27 [Hassan]: ChrisW: but also some felt it was too fine grained
16:52:03 [LeoraMorgenstern]: zakim, unmute me
16:52:03 [Zakim]: Leora_Morgenstern should no longer be muted
16:52:15 [csma]: zakim, unmute me
16:52:15 [Zakim]: csma should no longer be muted
16:52:31 [Hassan]: ChrisW: after looking at Axel's work, we decided to change all RIFRAF actions
16:52:41 [Hassan]: Action-179 dropped
16:52:56 [AllenGinsberg]: yes
16:53:08 [Hassan]: Action-175 continued for Apr 7 (Allen & Leora)
16:53:46 [Hassan]: Action-172 continued (Sandro)
16:54:11 [Hassan]: Any more RIFRAF issues?
16:54:13 [ChrisW]: zakim, take up item 8
16:54:13 [Zakim]: agendum 8. "AOB" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:54:14 [Hassan]: None
16:54:24 [Hassan]: Any other business?
16:54:45 [ChrisW]: MoZ are you there?
16:55:32 [Hassan]: Christian: review of the WD1 for the CORE - it is very important to be careful reviewing it; think ahead of the next WD if you feel something is missing now
16:55:52 [Hassan]: WD1 will be next week
16:55:57 [csma]: +1
16:55:58 [PaulaP]: +1
16:55:59 [Hassan]: Adjourned
16:56:03 [PaulaP]: bye
16:56:07 [MoZ]: ChrisW, yes I do
16:56:08 [Zakim]: -pfps
16:56:10 [Zakim]: -Deborah_Nichols
16:56:11 [ChrisW]: rrsagent, make minutes
16:56:11 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/03/06-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
16:56:14 [Zakim]: -Dave_Reynolds
16:56:16 [Zakim]: -StellaMitchell
16:56:18 [Zakim]: -Allen_Ginsberg
16:56:24 [Zakim]: -PaulVincent
16:56:28 [Zakim]: -PaulaP
16:56:34 [Zakim]: -DavidHirtle
16:56:40 [Zakim]: -josb
16:56:42 [Zakim]: -Sandro
16:56:44 [Zakim]: -Harold
16:56:44 [agiurca]: -agiurca
16:56:48 [Zakim]: -Leora_Morgenstern
16:56:52 [Zakim]: -agiurca
16:57:06 [Zakim]: -Gary_Hallmark
16:57:26 [csma]: zakim, who is on the phone?
16:57:26 [Zakim]: On the phone I see ChrisW, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, csma
16:57:36 [Zakim]: -Hassan_Ait-Kaci
16:58:16 [ChrisW]: sandro, you can meet tomorrow?
16:58:20 [MoZ]: ChrisW, you were looking after me ?
16:58:29 [Zakim]: -ChrisW
16:58:30 [Zakim]: -csma
16:58:31 [Zakim]: SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
16:58:33 [Zakim]: Attendees were Harold, Deborah_Nichols, ChrisW, josb, +49.892.180.aaaa, Leora_Morgenstern, StellaMitchell, PaulaP, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, Dave_Reynolds, DavidHirtle, pfps,
16:58:35 [Zakim]: ... Allen_Ginsberg, Gary_Hallmark, Sandro, PaulVincent, agiurca, csma
16:58:39 [ChrisW]: IgorMozetic AllenGinsberg(possibly late) MichaelKifer MichaelSintek
16:58:50 [csma]: Moz, we were wondering if you made a review of UCR
16:59:00 [ChrisW]: Regrets: IgorMozetic MichaelKifer MichaelSintek
16:59:01 [csma]: You had an action to
16:59:19 [MoZ]: I thought my action was for reviewing the CORE
16:59:24 [ChrisW]: Chair: Chris Welty
16:59:30 [ChrisW]: rrsagent, make minutes
16:59:30 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/03/06-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
16:59:41 [MoZ]: wasn't aware of the action for reviweing the UCR
16:59:50 [MoZ]: I take the action of course
17:00:04 [csma]: Yes, I supposed so (and I tried to say it but I forgot I was muted :-)
17:00:29 [csma]: The action was continued, anyway
18:14:19 [ChrisW]: ChrisW has left #rif
18:18:18 [csma]: csma has left #rif