IRC log of dawg on 2007-02-27

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:26:19 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #dawg

14:26:19 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/02/27-dawg-irc

14:26:23 [LeeF]

zakim, this will be DAWG

14:26:23 [Zakim]

ok, LeeF; I see SW_DAWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes

14:26:37 [LeeF]

Meeting: RDF DAWG Weekly

14:27:05 [Zakim]

SW_DAWG()9:30AM has now started

14:27:08 [LeeF]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JanMar/0101.html

14:27:12 [Zakim]

+Elias_Torres

14:27:14 [LeeF]

Chair: LeeF

14:27:17 [LeeF]

Scribe: EliasT

14:27:23 [EliasT]

Zakim, Elias_Torres is me

14:27:23 [Zakim]

+EliasT; got it

14:27:42 [Zakim]

+[IBMCambridge]

14:27:43 [LeeF]

zakim, IBMCambridge is me

14:27:44 [Zakim]

+LeeF; got it

14:27:55 [LeeF]

Agenda + convene

14:27:59 [Zakim]

+??P12

14:27:59 [LeeF]

agenda + review action items

14:28:02 [AndyS]

zakim, ??P12 is me

14:28:02 [Zakim]

+AndyS; got it

14:28:12 [LeeF]

agenda + test suite

14:28:27 [LeeF]

agenda + ORDER BY, language tags, and unknown types

14:28:39 [LeeF]

agenda + rq25 status and reviews

14:29:01 [SimonR]

Andy, found a solid answer: dc:author never existed. Totally in my imagination. :) http://askdcmi.askvrd.org/default.aspx?id=17213&cat=1720

14:29:07 [LeeF]

agenda + protocol status

14:29:18 [LeeF]

agenda + Road to Last Call

14:29:26 [EliasT]

Zakim, mute me

14:29:26 [Zakim]

EliasT should now be muted

14:29:51 [LeeF]

agenda + unexpected DISTINCT

14:30:51 [EliasT]

Zakim, unmute me

14:30:51 [Zakim]

EliasT should no longer be muted

14:33:00 [patH]

patH has joined #dawg

14:33:22 [LeeF]

zakim, who's on the phone?

14:33:22 [Zakim]

On the phone I see EliasT, LeeF, AndyS

14:33:29 [LeeF]

SimonR, are you calling in?

14:33:50 [LeeF]

and iv_an_ru, will you be calling in?

14:34:33 [iv_an_ru]

Start without me

14:34:38 [Zakim]

+Orri_Erling

14:34:43 [SimonR]

Trying, Lee.

14:35:01 [SimonR]

Feel free to kick off. I'll wrangle it eventually.

14:35:17 [Zakim]

+PatH

14:36:26 [LeeF]

Regrets: ericP, Souri

14:37:16 [LeeF]

minutes from 13 February: http://www.w3.org/2007/02/13-dawg-minutes

14:37:22 [Zakim]

+??P1

14:37:33 [SimonR]

Zakim, ??P1 is me

14:37:33 [Zakim]

+SimonR; got it

14:38:31 [EliasT]

AndyS: seconds minutes from Feb 13

14:39:24 [iv_an_ru]

zakim, code?

14:39:24 [Zakim]

the conference code is 7333 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), iv_an_ru

14:39:52 [SimonR]

I'll scribe next week.

14:40:34 [LeeF]

meet next Mar 6, SimonR to scribe

14:40:38 [LeeF]

zakim, take up agendum 2

14:40:38 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "review action items" taken up [from LeeF]

14:40:52 [LeeF]

ACTION: Elias to add wording for PROPOSED: ed(The SPARLQ Protocol does not derefrence query URIs so 5.1.3 does not apply. Per 5.1.4, services must define their own base URI, which may be the service invocation URI.)

14:41:00 [LeeF]

DONE

14:41:09 [LeeF]

ACTION: Lee to talk to protocol editors re: POSTing application/sparql-query [DONE]

14:41:21 [EliasT]

Zakim, list present

14:41:21 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'list present', EliasT

14:41:29 [EliasT]

Zakim, list attendees

14:41:29 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been EliasT, LeeF, AndyS, Orri_Erling, PatH, SimonR

14:41:48 [LeeF]

ACTION: AndyS to add text clarifying the prohibition on blank node labels in multiple BGPs to rq25 [CONTINUES]

14:41:54 [LeeF]

ACTION: EricP to run the yacker tool over and annotate the existing tests [CONTINUES]

14:42:00 [LeeF]

ACTION: LeeF to remember that the wee, lost filter tests should be put [CONTINUES]

14:42:10 [LeeF]

zakim, take up agendum 4

14:42:10 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "ORDER BY, language tags, and unknown types" taken up [from LeeF]

14:42:35 [LeeF]

Eric's suggestion: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JanMar/0111.html

14:42:41 [LeeF]

Andy's response: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JanMar/0118.html

14:43:17 [LeeF]

original comment: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2007Feb/0005.html

14:43:28 [AndyS]

Original : http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2007Feb/0005.html

14:44:22 [LeeF]

Andy's summary: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JanMar/0098.html

14:45:02 [SimonR]

The only comment I have is that I vaguely thought that language codes were not case sensitive. The list traffic I read gave me the impression we weren't stripping case before doing comparisons.

14:45:17 [LeeF]

Andy: The text currently says you can't use extended definition of < to do ORDERing, which I take as a bug

14:45:27 [LeeF]

Andy: We can't define a total ordering

14:45:57 [LeeF]

SimonR, language codes are case insensitive, according to RDF Concepts

14:46:34 [SimonR]

LeeF, I'm surprised and newly enlightened!

14:47:43 [EliasT]

AndyS: SPARQL doesn't support language tags

14:47:53 [EliasT]

AndyS: I think we should support language tags in the spec

14:48:23 [EliasT]

SimonR: I think we should. If we don't, we'll get hell from i18n.

14:48:41 [SimonR]

(That was Pat, not me.)

14:48:45 [patH]

that was patH

14:49:01 [patH]

we brits al sound alike.

14:50:08 [AndyS]

@en-uk

14:50:42 [EliasT]

LeeF: Unless there's a proposal that we revisit language tags support, we should discuss extensions and less-than only.

14:50:56 [Zakim]

+EricP

14:51:11 [EliasT]

AndyS: We do date, but would like datetime.

14:51:19 [EliasT]

Zakim, mute ericP

14:51:19 [Zakim]

EricP should now be muted

14:51:44 [EliasT]

Zakim, unmute ericP

14:51:44 [Zakim]

EricP should no longer be muted

14:53:23 [AndyS]

Mute is 61# / unmute is 61#

14:53:39 [LeeF]

zakim, who's talking?

14:53:39 [EliasT]

AndyS: We do datetime, but would like date support.

14:53:51 [Zakim]

LeeF, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: PatH (28%), EricP (64%), AndyS (14%)

14:54:24 [LeeF]

zakim, mute ericP

14:54:24 [Zakim]

EricP should now be muted

14:56:12 [EliasT]

LeeF: does anybody have any thoughts on making it explicit on the text that implementations of extensions that extend less than can affect the order of solutions?

14:56:38 [EliasT]

PatH: No strong feeling. Pitty we can't follow some precedence.

14:57:00 [EliasT]

Orri: We inherit the SQL ordering.

14:57:35 [EliasT]

SimonR: We support LIMIT/OFFSET so we need to provide a stable ordering support.

14:58:53 [AndyS]

"001"^^xsd:integer and "01"^^xsd:int

14:59:20 [EliasT]

LeeF: Given AndyS and ericP's comments + the community feedback, convinces me that we need to allow for implementation to extend ordering in the less-than operator. Although this could result in less interoperability in our spec in regards to ordering.

14:59:37 [LeeF]

zakim, unmute ericP

14:59:37 [Zakim]

EricP should no longer be muted

14:59:57 [SimonR]

q+

15:00:11 [EliasT]

ericP: The main risk we run is that a new implementation will affect somebody's expected slicing.

15:00:33 [LeeF]

ack SimonR

15:00:57 [LeeF]

zakim, mute ericP

15:00:57 [Zakim]

EricP should now be muted

15:02:20 [EliasT]

SimonR: In order to solve this problem for real, we need to have a separate protocol that holds on to the answers in order for you to obtain correct slices from it.

15:02:41 [Zakim]

-EricP

15:02:42 [EliasT]

Orri_Erling: We can inherit a scrollable cursor from SQL.

15:03:19 [LeeF]

PROPOSED: ORDER BY comparisons respect extended implementations of < that operate on types beyond what's given in the operator table

15:03:33 [EliasT]

SimonR: Mulgara supports a holding-results set.

15:03:43 [LeeF]

zakim, unmute ericP

15:03:43 [Zakim]

sorry, LeeF, I do not know which phone connection belongs to ericP

15:04:05 [EliasT]

AndyS: Seconds it.

15:04:33 [EliasT]

SimonR: Is < the only operator that gets extended in this way?

15:04:52 [EliasT]

AndyS: We only use one operator to build the table.

15:05:11 [EliasT]

patH: what is R.E.S.P.E.C.T?

15:05:12 [Zakim]

+EricP

15:05:38 [LeeF]

zakim, mute ericP

15:05:38 [Zakim]

EricP should now be muted

15:05:49 [LeeF]

PROPOSED: ORDER BY comparisons may use extended implementations of < that operate on types beyond what's given in the operator table

15:06:12 [LeeF]

so RESOLVED.

15:06:20 [SimonR]

Would extended versions of equality (particularly for datatype processing, affect DISTINCT?

15:06:43 [LeeF]

zakim, unmute ericP

15:06:43 [Zakim]

EricP should no longer be muted

15:06:48 [LeeF]

zakim, mute ericP

15:06:48 [Zakim]

EricP should now be muted

15:06:51 [AndyS]

DISTINCT is term distinct, not value distinct.

15:07:12 [LeeF]

ACTION: ericP to add text to spec noting that ORDER BY comparisons may use extended implementations of < that operate on types beyond what's given in the operator table

15:08:33 [LeeF]

zakim, agenda?

15:08:33 [Zakim]

I see 8 items remaining on the agenda:

15:08:34 [Zakim]

1. convene [from LeeF]

15:08:35 [Zakim]

2. review action items [from LeeF]

15:08:36 [Zakim]

3. test suite [from LeeF]

15:08:37 [Zakim]

4. ORDER BY, language tags, and unknown types [from LeeF]

15:08:38 [Zakim]

5. rq25 status and reviews [from LeeF]

15:08:40 [Zakim]

6. protocol status [from LeeF]

15:08:42 [Zakim]

7. Road to Last Call [from LeeF]

15:08:44 [Zakim]

8. unexpected DISTINCT [from LeeF]

15:08:59 [LeeF]

zakim, take up agendum 8

15:08:59 [Zakim]

agendum 8. "unexpected DISTINCT" taken up [from LeeF]

15:09:16 [EliasT]

agenda- 1

15:09:18 [AndyS]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2007Feb/0014.html

15:10:10 [EliasT]

Zakim, agenda 1 convene

15:10:10 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'agenda 1 convene', EliasT

15:10:13 [EliasT]

Zakim, agenda 1 = convene

15:10:13 [Zakim]

agendum 1 replaced

15:10:29 [LeeF]

test case: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#modifer-limit

15:10:35 [EliasT]

Zakim, close agendum 1

15:10:35 [Zakim]

agendum 1, convene, closed

15:10:36 [Zakim]

I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:10:38 [Zakim]

2. review action items [from LeeF]

15:10:41 [EliasT]

Zakim, close agendum 2

15:10:41 [Zakim]

agendum 2, review action items, closed

15:10:42 [Zakim]

I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:10:42 [EliasT]

Zakim, close agendum 3

15:10:43 [Zakim]

3. test suite [from LeeF]

15:10:45 [Zakim]

agendum 3, test suite, closed

15:10:47 [Zakim]

I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:10:48 [Zakim]

4. ORDER BY, language tags, and unknown types [from LeeF]

15:11:17 [EliasT]

Zakim, take up agendum 4

15:11:17 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "ORDER BY, language tags, and unknown types" taken up [from LeeF]

15:15:15 [LeeF]

zakim, unmute ericP

15:15:15 [Zakim]

EricP should no longer be muted

15:15:38 [LeeF]

ericP: Fred is in favor of explicitly NOT having auto distinct

15:16:01 [EliasT]

ericP: If people really wanted that, we could add a keyword, but only until someone proposes.

15:16:05 [EliasT]

ericP: I'm with Fred.

15:16:08 [LeeF]

zkim, mute ericP

15:16:13 [EliasT]

Zakim, mute ericP

15:16:13 [Zakim]

EricP should now be muted

15:16:46 [SimonR]

q+

15:16:52 [LeeF]

ack SimonR

15:17:03 [LeeF]

SimonR: Mulgara always does auto distinct

15:19:44 [LeeF]

ACTION: LeeF to talk to SteveH and JeenB about auto distinct behavior in implementations

15:20:42 [LeeF]

zakim, agenda?

15:20:42 [Zakim]

I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:

15:20:43 [Zakim]

4. ORDER BY, language tags, and unknown types [from LeeF]

15:20:44 [Zakim]

5. rq25 status and reviews [from LeeF]

15:20:46 [Zakim]

6. protocol status [from LeeF]

15:20:47 [Zakim]

7. Road to Last Call [from LeeF]

15:20:48 [Zakim]

8. unexpected DISTINCT [from LeeF]

15:20:55 [LeeF]

zakim, close agendum 8

15:20:55 [Zakim]

agendum 8, unexpected DISTINCT, closed

15:20:56 [Zakim]

I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:20:57 [Zakim]

4. ORDER BY, language tags, and unknown types [from LeeF]

15:20:59 [LeeF]

zakim, close agendum 4

15:20:59 [Zakim]

agendum 4, ORDER BY, language tags, and unknown types, closed

15:21:01 [Zakim]

I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:21:02 [Zakim]

5. rq25 status and reviews [from LeeF]

15:23:10 [LeeF]

zakim, unmute ericP

15:23:10 [Zakim]

EricP should no longer be muted

15:23:16 [EliasT]

Zakim, close agendum 5

15:23:16 [Zakim]

agendum 5, rq25 status and reviews, closed

15:23:17 [Zakim]

I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:23:19 [Zakim]

6. protocol status [from LeeF]

15:23:26 [LeeF]

zakim, mute ericP

15:23:28 [Zakim]

EricP should now be muted

15:23:34 [EliasT]

Zakim, take up agendum 6

15:23:34 [Zakim]

agendum 6. "protocol status" taken up [from LeeF]

15:31:07 [EliasT]

LeeF: Does anybody have anything invested in posting SPARQL queries?

15:31:10 [LeeF]

zakim, what's the phone?

15:31:10 [Zakim]

I don't understand your question, LeeF.

15:31:15 [LeeF]

zakim, who's on the phone?

15:31:15 [Zakim]

On the phone I see EliasT, LeeF, AndyS, Orri_Erling, PatH, SimonR, EricP (muted)

15:31:51 [EliasT]

AndyS: Joseki can POST a plain query. It doesn't have to be in the specification.

15:32:48 [EliasT]

Orri_Erling: For our purposes it's ok as it is.

15:33:09 [LeeF]

zakim, unmute ericP

15:33:09 [Zakim]

EricP should no longer be muted

15:33:32 [LeeF]

zakim, mute ericP

15:33:32 [Zakim]

EricP should now be muted

15:33:32 [EliasT]

ericP: I don't care.

15:36:19 [LeeF]

ACTION: LeeF or EliasT to reply to Bjoern regarding (not) POSTing application/sparql-query documents

15:36:24 [LeeF]

zakim, unmute ericP

15:36:24 [Zakim]

EricP should no longer be muted

15:36:33 [LeeF]

zakim, mute ericP

15:36:33 [Zakim]

EricP should now be muted

15:36:44 [LeeF]

zakim, agenda?

15:36:44 [Zakim]

I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:

15:36:45 [Zakim]

6. protocol status [from LeeF]

15:36:47 [Zakim]

7. Road to Last Call [from LeeF]

15:36:58 [EliasT]

Zakim, close agendum 6

15:36:58 [Zakim]

agendum 6, protocol status, closed

15:37:00 [Zakim]

I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:

15:37:01 [Zakim]

7. Road to Last Call [from LeeF]

15:38:12 [LeeF]

zakim, unmute ericP

15:38:12 [Zakim]

EricP should no longer be muted

15:38:28 [Zakim]

-Orri_Erling

15:38:28 [EliasT]

ADJOURNED

15:38:29 [Zakim]

-EricP

15:38:29 [Zakim]

-PatH

15:38:33 [EliasT]

RRSAgent, please draft the minutes

15:38:33 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/02/27-dawg-minutes.html EliasT

15:38:35 [Zakim]

-SimonR

15:38:54 [LeeF]

zakim, who's on the phone?

15:38:54 [Zakim]

On the phone I see EliasT, LeeF, AndyS

15:39:01 [EliasT]

RRSAgent, please make logs world-visible

15:40:41 [Zakim]

-LeeF

15:40:44 [Zakim]

-AndyS

15:40:50 [Zakim]

-EliasT

15:40:51 [Zakim]

SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended

15:40:52 [Zakim]

Attendees were EliasT, LeeF, AndyS, Orri_Erling, PatH, SimonR, EricP

16:40:49 [iv_an_ru]

http://www.absentis.front.ru/abs/lsd_01_preface.htm

16:41:04 [iv_an_ru]

Sorry, wrong channel