15:19:47 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rif
15:19:47 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/02/13-rif-irc
15:19:58 <MoZ> Zakim, this will be rif
15:19:58 <Zakim> ok, MoZ; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 41 minutes
15:21:24 <ChrisW> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Feb/0026.html
15:21:52 <ChrisW> ChrisW has changed the topic to: 13 Feb RIF Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Feb/0026.html
15:22:15 <ChrisW> Meeting: RIF Telecon 13 Feb 07
15:22:36 <ChrisW> Chair: Chris Welty
15:23:27 <ChrisW> Zakim, read agenda from http://www.w3.org/2006/10/17-rif-agenda.rdf
15:23:27 <Zakim> working on it, ChrisW
15:23:28 <Zakim> agenda+ Admin' [ChrisW]
15:23:29 <Zakim> agendum 1 added
15:23:30 <Zakim> agenda+ F2F [ChrisW]
15:23:31 <Zakim> agendum 2 added
15:23:32 <Zakim> agenda+ Liason [ChrisW]
15:23:34 <Zakim> agendum 3 added
15:23:36 <Zakim> agenda+ Technical Design [ChrisW]
15:23:37 <Zakim> agendum 4 added
15:23:38 <Zakim> agenda+ RIF-RAF [ChrisW]
15:23:39 <Zakim> agendum 5 added
15:23:40 <Zakim> agenda+ UCR [ChrisW]
15:23:42 <Zakim> agendum 6 added
15:23:44 <Zakim> agenda+ AOB [ChrisW]
15:23:46 <Zakim> agendum 7 added
15:23:49 <Zakim> done reading agenda, ChrisW
15:23:53 <ChrisW> zakij, clear agenda
15:23:58 <ChrisW> zakim, clear agenda
15:23:58 <Zakim> agenda cleared
15:24:06 <ChrisW> agenda+ Admin
15:24:12 <ChrisW> agenda+ F2F
15:24:17 <ChrisW> agenda+ Liason
15:24:25 <ChrisW> agenda+ Technical Design
15:24:32 <ChrisW> agenda+ UCR
15:24:36 <ChrisW> agenda+ RIFRAF
15:24:40 <ChrisW> agenda+ AOB
15:24:55 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make minutes
15:24:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/02/13-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
15:29:13 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make logs public
15:31:34 <ChrisW> hey moz, can you scribe today?
15:32:06 <MoZ> ChrisW, not I even won't be able to attend by phone, I fear
15:32:13 <MoZ> I will only be there on IRC
15:33:45 <ChrisW> ok
15:34:47 <MoZ> The problem is even I would do I still will be a first-half-time-scribe
15:39:40 <sandro> sandro has joined #rif
15:41:10 <ChrisW> that's ok
15:52:04 <agiurca> agiurca has joined #rif
15:52:37 <csma> csma has joined #rif
15:54:52 <Zakim> SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
15:55:02 <Zakim> + +39.022.399.aaaa
15:55:16 <csma> zakim, aaaa is me
15:55:16 <Zakim> +csma; got it
15:57:21 <Harold> Harold has joined #rif
15:58:05 <Zakim> +[NRCC]
15:58:22 <patranja> patranja has joined #rif
15:58:46 <IgorMozetic> IgorMozetic has joined #rif
15:59:27 <Harold> zakim, [NRCC] is me
15:59:27 <Zakim> +Harold; got it
15:59:56 <Zakim> +[IBM]
15:59:59 <MichaelKifer> MichaelKifer has joined #rif
16:00:02 <ChrisW> zakim, ibm is temporarily me
16:00:02 <Zakim> +ChrisW; got it
16:00:23 <josb> josb has joined #rif
16:00:42 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:00:52 <IgorMozetic> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
16:00:52 <Zakim> +IgorMozetic; got it
16:01:03 <IgorMozetic> zakim, mute me
16:01:04 <Zakim> IgorMozetic should now be muted
16:01:36 <Zakim> +josb
16:01:42 <Allen> Allen has joined #rif
16:02:04 <Harold> Enterprise Architect is another UML tool: http://www.sparxsystems.com/ea.htm
16:02:05 <Zakim> +[LMU]
16:02:07 <DavidHirtle> DavidHirtle has joined #rif
16:02:07 <Zakim> +[TU-Cottbus]
16:02:18 <ChrisW> zakim, who is talking?
16:02:24 <StellaMitchell> StellaMitchell has joined #rif
16:02:29 <agiurca> zakim, [TU-Cottbus] is agiurca
16:02:29 <Zakim> +agiurca; got it
16:02:30 <Zakim> +Allen_Ginsberg
16:02:33 <Zakim> ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: csma (21%), ChrisW (19%), PaulaP (2%), [TU-Cottbus] (30%)
16:02:37 <agiurca> zakim, mute me
16:02:37 <Zakim> agiurca should now be muted
16:02:41 <csma> zakim, mute me
16:02:41 <Zakim> csma should now be muted
16:02:44 <Allen> zakim, mute me
16:02:49 <Zakim> Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
16:02:59 <Zakim> +Sandro
16:03:17 <Zakim> +??P35
16:03:17 <DaveReynolds> DaveReynolds has joined #rif
16:03:22 <Zakim> +[IBM]
16:03:26 <StellaMitchell> zakim, [ibm] is temporarily me
16:03:26 <Zakim> +StellaMitchell; got it
16:03:37 <DavidHirtle> zakim, ack me
16:03:40 <Zakim> I see ??P35 on the speaker queue
16:03:45 <cgi-irc> cgi-irc has joined #rif
16:03:53 <LeoraMorgenstern> LeoraMorgenstern has joined #rif
16:03:56 <Zakim> +??P38
16:04:06 <Zakim> +Dave_Reynolds (was ??P38)
16:04:15 <ChrisW> ack ??
16:04:26 <ChrisW> ChrisW has left #rif
16:04:36 <ChrisW> ChrisW has joined #rif
16:04:43 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:04:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see csma (muted), Harold, ChrisW, IgorMozetic (muted), josb (muted), PaulaP (muted), agiurca (muted), Allen_Ginsberg (muted), Sandro (muted), DavidHirtle,
16:04:46 <Zakim> ... StellaMitchell (muted), Dave_Reynolds
16:04:51 <Zakim> +Leora_Morgenstern
16:04:53 <Zakim> +??P5
16:04:56 <pfps> pfps has joined #rif
16:05:06 <LeoraMorgenstern> zakim, please mute me
16:05:06 <Zakim> Leora_Morgenstern should now be muted
16:05:28 <Zakim> +??P14
16:05:37 <pfps> zakim, P14 is me
16:05:37 <Zakim> sorry, pfps, I do not recognize a party named 'P14'
16:05:54 <pfps> zakim, ??P14 is me
16:05:54 <Zakim> +pfps; got it
16:06:18 <Zakim> +Michael_Kifer
16:06:45 <csma> I will do it
16:06:48 <ChrisW> scribenick: csma
16:07:23 <csma> next agendum
16:07:28 <ChrisW> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Feb/0013.html
16:07:42 <MichaelKifer> zakim, mute me
16:07:42 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should now be muted
16:07:43 <csma> proposed: approve minutes of 13 Feb
16:07:56 <csma> RESOLVED: minutes from 13 Feb approved
16:08:00 <IgorMozetic> s/13/6/
16:08:02 <Allen> zakim, unmute me
16:08:04 <csma> next agendum
16:08:05 <Zakim> Allen_Ginsberg should no longer be muted
16:08:28 <csma> Zakum, next agendum
16:09:14 <csma> Allen: If you did not fill the questionaire, please do it before next Friday
16:09:53 <csma> ...extra room booked for BO sessions
16:09:59 <pfps> I'm ready to scribe.
16:10:08 <csma> scribenick: pfps
16:10:44 <LeoraMorgenstern> zakim, unmute me
16:10:44 <Zakim> Leora_Morgenstern should no longer be muted
16:10:45 <pfps> Chris:  If you think you might come, sign up on the Wiki and provide nationality so that the appropriate paperwork can be done.
16:10:53 <LeoraMorgenstern> Yes, sandro, because I forgot to sign up
16:11:02 <pfps> Sandro: I'll reopen the questionnaire to support this.
16:11:10 <ChrisW> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/F2F5
16:11:28 <pfps> Chris:  16 have signed up, so expect 20
16:12:46 <pfps> Chris: agenda is up for meeting
16:13:17 <pfps> Chris:  If we can't approve drafts, then we want to at least try to get concrete actions for editors that will result in a working draft
16:13:37 <pfps> Chris: Documents will be frozen one week before F2F
16:13:47 <Harold> Is there news about wiki-tr (reading on the plane)?
16:14:16 <pfps> Chris: Day 2  devoted to UCR draft
16:14:36 <pfps> Chris: Day 3 devoted to architecture and to complete actions from previous days
16:14:54 <pfps> Chris:  WIKI page has more details, comments wanted
16:15:09 <pfps> Chris:  Hotels still have room, but do often fill
16:15:50 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
16:15:50 <Zakim> agendum 2. "F2F" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:15:53 <pfps> Allen:  Two demos are available.
16:16:04 <pfps> Harold:  What about remote participation?
16:16:41 <pfps> Allen:  Each room has a speakerphone
16:17:06 <pfps> Chris:  Use regular code, if second bridge is needed then one will be set up
16:17:33 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
16:17:33 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Liason" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:17:34 <pfps> Sandro:  Will send out email asking who wants to phone in (and when?)
16:17:53 <csma> ACTION: to Sandro to send email to ask who plans to attend by phone
16:17:53 <rifbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - to
16:18:08 <PaulVincent> PRR - no news
16:18:11 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
16:18:11 <Zakim> agendum 3 was just opened, ChrisW
16:18:19 <ChrisW> zakim, close item 3
16:18:19 <Zakim> agendum 3, Liason, closed
16:18:21 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:18:22 <Zakim> 4. Technical Design [from ChrisW]
16:18:33 <pfps> Chris:  Action review
16:19:10 <pfps> Chris:  Harold actions 216 done, 217 done, 
16:19:17 <Zakim> +Gary_Hallmark
16:19:19 <pfps> Chris: Jos action #? done
16:19:45 <pfps> Chris:  actions 218, 219, 220 done
16:19:56 <johnhall> johnhall has joined #rif
16:20:07 <pfps> Chris: action 223 done
16:20:18 <Zakim> +Sandro.a
16:20:26 <pfps> Chris: action (Sandro) not done
16:20:30 <Zakim> -Sandro
16:20:41 <sandro> sandro has joined #rif
16:20:49 <csma> s/(sandro)/224/
16:20:55 <pfps> Harold:  draft incorporates all changes from Allen's initial review
16:21:00 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:21:15 <johnhall> zakim, ipcaller is me
16:21:15 <Zakim> +johnhall; got it
16:21:22 <pfps> Harold:  still discussing later review from Allen and other reviews (appendix)
16:21:23 <johnhall> zakim,mute me
16:21:23 <Zakim> johnhall should now be muted
16:21:40 <MichaelKifer> q+
16:21:43 <pfps> Harold: overview section has initial content
16:22:01 <MichaelKifer> zakim, unmute me
16:22:01 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
16:22:11 <sandro> sandro has joined #rif
16:22:11 <pfps> Harold: Mike and Jos are discussing comments
16:22:18 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:22:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see csma (muted), Harold, ChrisW, IgorMozetic (muted), josb (muted), PaulaP (muted), agiurca (muted), Allen_Ginsberg, DavidHirtle, StellaMitchell (muted),
16:22:22 <Zakim> ... Dave_Reynolds, Leora_Morgenstern, PaulVincent, pfps, Michael_Kifer, Gary_Hallmark, Sandro.a, johnhall (muted)
16:22:52 <pfps> Michael: current document has motivation - where should they go?  they might end up quite long
16:23:14 <pfps> Chris:  leave motivation, etc., in for initial draft, later move to another document
16:23:30 <agiurca> There is a consensus about the Section "Multisorted Extension?" Why is this an extension? I propose to drop out this section by moving the content to the Syntax and Semantics sections.
16:23:41 <sandro> sandro has joined #rif
16:24:11 <pfps> Michael: how to address criticism then?
16:24:22 <csma> q+
16:24:47 <pfps> Harold: comments are against technical sections - mixture of intro and formal stuff
16:24:47 <GaryHallmark> GaryHallmark has joined #rif
16:24:55 <sandro> sandro has joined #rif
16:25:06 <sandro> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:25:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see csma (muted), Harold, ChrisW, IgorMozetic (muted), josb (muted), PaulaP (muted), agiurca (muted), Allen_Ginsberg, DavidHirtle, StellaMitchell (muted),
16:25:09 <Zakim> ... Dave_Reynolds, Leora_Morgenstern, PaulVincent, pfps, Michael_Kifer, Gary_Hallmark, Sandro.a, johnhall (muted)
16:25:37 <pfps> Harold:  maybe a reorganization of the section is the best way to go
16:25:44 <csma> q?
16:25:55 <csma> ack michaelk
16:26:26 <pfps> Chris: how much work to rewrite
16:26:51 <csma> q?
16:27:17 <pfps> Michael/Harold: more than a week, can't just take it out, need to reorganize
16:27:27 <josb> zakim, unmute me
16:27:27 <Zakim> josb should no longer be muted
16:27:41 <pfps> Chris: Jos - what is the biggest problem 
16:28:12 <pfps> Jos: mixture of intro/motivation and technical stuff, which degrades readability
16:28:35 <pfps> Jos: would be better to have informal intro to language with motivation
16:28:40 <csma> I agree with Jos; we should clearly separate what is the spec and what are additional explanations
16:28:52 <pfps> Jos: separate section/document for technical stuff
16:28:59 <Harold> Jos, later perhaps we'll need a 'walk-through' like the one for OWL? Just not in one week?
16:29:25 <pfps> Michael:  other problems are small, this is the only one that is big
16:29:47 <pfps> Jos: also question on end point (which documents?) so scope of this document is unclear
16:29:54 <csma> q?
16:30:05 <pfps> Chris: this doc is description of RIF core - it will be the guts of the standard
16:30:35 <pfps> Chris: some stuff will move to another document, which is not ready yet, they need to exist now, so that this document can be read
16:31:35 <pfps> Michael:  the current situation is problematic for non-experts, there needs to be an introductory section or document
16:31:37 <Harold> Michael, but it's also a good didactic principle to do it "informal-formal-informal-formal-...".
16:32:01 <csma> ack csma
16:32:05 <Harold> Rather than informal-informal-...informal-formal-formal-...-formal.
16:32:06 <pfps> Michael: A completely formal document will need to point to the motivation
16:32:24 <pfps> CSMA: not clear what is spec and what is non-spec
16:32:58 <Allen> q+
16:33:02 <pfps> CSMA:  fix by visually indicating spec and non-spec?
16:33:21 <Allen> q-
16:33:22 <pfps> Chris: can this be done?
16:33:33 <Allen> I agree with Christian
16:34:04 <agiurca> May be the  RIF MOF/UML metamodel is better to be inside of the Positive Conditions section and not in the RIF overview. 
16:34:09 <pfps> Harold:  probably, but how to do in WIKI style
16:34:26 <pfps> Michael:  how to do quickly?  
16:34:26 <Harold> Christian, special fonts (or boxes) for "informal" and for "formal" would be doable.
16:34:55 <pfps> CSMA: how about highlighting / italics (just for frozen version) and something better later?
16:35:43 <pfps> Harold: how about colours?
16:36:17 <pfps> Sandro: WIKI vs TR - have editors pick something for WIKI, I can map into TR
16:36:33 <Harold> E.g. in the help system: ||<#FF8080> red ||<#80FF80> green ||<#8080FF> blue ||
16:37:08 <agiurca> there is a <strong> tag which is not closed
16:37:26 <ChrisW> zakim, mute csma
16:37:26 <Zakim> csma should now be muted
16:37:26 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has joined #rif
16:37:31 <pfps> Michael:  Need some fixes for WIKI-TR - can't use entities
16:37:47 <csma> zakim, mute me
16:37:48 <Zakim> csma was already muted, csma
16:37:57 <csma> q+
16:38:17 <Zakim> + +3592976aabb
16:38:22 <Harold> Which colour do we use for "formal"? red?
16:38:27 <pfps> Sandro: will try to fix (somehow)
16:39:09 <pfps> Michael:  OK
16:39:25 <csma> q?
16:40:05 <pfps> Chris:  temporary solution is to distinguish via colour
16:40:16 <Harold> Or, following Christian, mark "informal" by green?
16:41:18 <csma> q?
16:41:18 <csma> ack me
16:41:18 <csma> zakim, unmute me
16:41:22 <Zakim> csma should no longer be muted
16:41:46 <MichaelKifer> zakim, mute me
16:41:46 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should now be muted
16:41:54 <pfps> CSMA: what goes into the overview?  Why is the metamodel not in the spec?
16:41:57 <MichaelKifer> q-
16:42:55 <agiurca> From the metamodel cannot be obtained the actual BNF. What is the mapping which was used?
16:42:58 <pfps> Harold: problem with mixing motivation with metamodel
16:43:44 <pfps> CSMA: XML part should be separated, later
16:44:27 <pfps> Harold:  may not need strict separation, just mark
16:44:45 <agiurca> XML syntax can be generated fro the MOF abstract syntax
16:45:31 <pfps> Harold: perhaps physically separate, and have links
16:45:52 <pfps> CSMA:  for this WD just mark, discuss end state later
16:45:59 <csma> zakim, mute me
16:45:59 <Zakim> csma should now be muted
16:46:20 <pfps> Chris: move where?
16:46:46 <csma> I removed the remark about moving XML into a different section
16:46:56 <pfps> Harold: need two diagrams
16:47:08 <csma> I keep the remark about moving the meta-model along with the corresponding BNF
16:48:00 <csma> +1
16:48:10 <pfps> Chris: do minimal change
16:48:10 <agiurca> The mapping from the MOF abstract syntax to BNF must be described.
16:48:26 <pfps> Who is recording actions?
16:48:37 <csma> Ok
16:49:02 <csma> Action to Harold to move the MOF diagram to the relevant syntax subsection
16:49:43 <MichaelKifer> zakim, unmute me
16:49:43 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
16:50:01 <pfps> Harold: problems with concurrent editing in WIKI
16:50:11 <agiurca> zakim, unmute me
16:50:11 <Zakim> agiurca should no longer be muted
16:50:42 <csma> ACTION: Harold to move the MOF diagrams to the relevant syntax subsections
16:50:43 <rifbot> Created ACTION-225 - Move the MOF diagrams to the relevant syntax subsections [on Harold Boley - due 2007-02-20].
16:50:57 <pfps> Sandro: email WIKI bugs to sysreq
16:51:03 <sandro> sysreq@w3.org
16:51:12 <agiurca> q+
16:51:14 <sandro> to report the wiki being down or seriously malfunctioning.
16:51:43 <pfps> Chris: how to fix problem with WIKI-TR?
16:52:09 <csma> q?
16:52:11 <MichaelKifer> zakim, mute me
16:52:11 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should now be muted
16:52:29 <pfps> Chris: Sandro - run WIKI-TR and see if there are real problems
16:52:37 <csma> q?
16:53:05 <pfps> Harold: Can WIKI-TR handle appendices?
16:53:23 <csma> Can we move that discussion off line?
16:53:34 <pfps> Sandro: can handle by using single numbering
16:54:17 <csma> q?
16:54:29 <csma> q?
16:54:35 <csma> ack agiurca
16:55:20 <pfps> Adrian: need to explain mapping from BNF to abstract syntax
16:56:03 <pfps> Harold: something needs to be done
16:56:44 <pfps> Adrian:  why do we need new syntax?
16:56:58 <MichaelKifer> zakim, unmute me
16:56:58 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
16:57:02 <pfps> Adrian: what about sorts? are they core or not?
16:57:07 <pfps> Michael: in core
16:57:14 <csma> zakim, unmute me
16:57:14 <Zakim> csma should no longer be muted
16:57:24 <Harold> "Multisorted extension" is a 'Core-internal' extension.
16:57:24 <pfps> Adrian: then don't call this multi-sorted extensions
16:58:22 <pfps> Adrian: what is status of "type"
16:58:30 <pfps> Harold:  missing - needs to be added
16:58:43 <pfps> Chris: put this into an email
16:59:01 <csma> Harold, do you want a action to add some text to explain the mapping between BNF and MOF diagram?
16:59:22 <csma> zakim, mute me
16:59:22 <Zakim> csma should now be muted
16:59:31 <Harold> Adrian, attributes in BNF syntax are not wide-spread, but we could invent something.
16:59:37 <agiurca> q-
16:59:45 <Harold> Christian, yes.
16:59:47 <agiurca> zakim, mute me
16:59:47 <Zakim> agiurca should now be muted
17:00:09 <pfps> Chris: other comments
17:00:17 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
17:00:17 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Technical Design" taken up [from ChrisW]
17:00:20 <pfps> Chris: next item - UCR
17:00:38 <pfps> Allen: no recent changes - reviews have been assigned
17:00:39 <csma> action: harold to add some text in the syntax subsections to explain the mapping between BNF and MOF diagrams
17:00:40 <rifbot> Created ACTION-226 - Add some text in the syntax subsections to explain the mapping between BNF and MOF diagrams [on Harold Boley - due 2007-02-20].
17:00:55 <MichaelKifer> zakim, mute me
17:00:55 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should now be muted
17:00:59 <pfps> Chris:  what needs to be done for final version - there are outstanding issues
17:01:25 <ChrisW> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/issues/open
17:02:12 <pfps> Chris: e.g. RIF must cover OWL
17:02:34 <pfps> Chris: F2F should cover all outstanding issues with UCR
17:03:03 <pfps> Chris: each open UCR issue should have a plan
17:03:17 <pfps> Alllen: OK, I'll look at them
17:03:31 <pfps> Chris: some of them are old - and should have already been closed
17:04:28 <pfps> Chris: we want a success - need to think about extensions as well
17:04:44 <pfps> Chris: this WILL come up at the F2F - be prepared
17:05:01 <Zakim> -Leora_Morgenstern
17:05:14 <csma> zakim, unmute me
17:05:15 <pfps> Chris: action conclusion and summary - 215 - open
17:05:16 <Zakim> csma should no longer be muted
17:05:42 <pfps> Allen: deferred to final version, work on phase 2 first
17:05:49 <csma> I do
17:06:07 <pfps> Chris: opinions either way?
17:06:09 <csma> we should have a conclusion in the next WD
17:06:30 <pfps> CSMA:  we should have conclusion and summary now
17:07:00 <pfps> Chris: OK, Allen can you do that
17:07:06 <pfps> Allen:  I'll try
17:07:13 <csma> zakim, ùute me
17:07:13 <Zakim> I don't understand 'ùute me', csma
17:07:18 <ChrisW> zakim, mute csma
17:07:18 <Zakim> csma should now be muted
17:07:20 <csma> zakim, mute me
17:07:20 <Zakim> csma was already muted, csma
17:07:24 <PaulaP> q+
17:07:33 <PaulaP> m7 zakim, unmute me
17:07:45 <ChrisW> ack paulap
17:08:16 <pfps> Paula:  how should Phase 2 requirements be gathered?
17:08:26 <pfps> Chris:  good question - Allen?
17:08:33 <pfps> Allen: no opinion
17:08:50 <pfps> Chris:  start new WIKI page - as before
17:08:57 <pfps> Paula: I will help if needed
17:09:03 <ChrisW> action paula to start phase 2 wiki page
17:09:07 <pfps> Chris: ACTION Paula set up new WIKI page
17:09:13 <csma> ACTION: PaulaP to start a new wiki page for phase 2 reqs
17:09:13 <rifbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - PaulaP
17:09:28 <ChrisW> action: paula to start phase 2 wiki page
17:09:28 <pfps> Chris: <sarcasm deleted>
17:09:28 <rifbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - paula
17:09:41 <AxelPolleres> q+
17:09:43 <ChrisW> zakim, rifraf
17:09:43 <Zakim> I don't understand 'rifraf', ChrisW
17:09:48 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
17:09:49 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, ChrisW
17:09:50 <pfps> Chris: next item - RIFRAF
17:09:56 <ChrisW> ack axel
17:09:58 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
17:09:58 <Zakim> agendum 5. "UCR" taken up [from ChrisW]
17:10:47 <pfps> Axel: problems with aligning different stuff with UML diagrams
17:10:55 <pfps> Axel: would like to go higher-level
17:11:22 <pfps> Axel: no feedback so far
17:11:43 <pfps> Chris: Leora will be at F2F, but not other RIFRAFers
17:11:58 <pfps> Chris:  what to discuss at meeting?
17:12:09 <pfps> Axel:  I will try to attend by phone.
17:13:06 <pfps> Chris: Metamodel discussion is scheduled, RIFRAF also, these are the important ones
17:13:23 <pfps> Chris:  how much time to allot?
17:13:31 <pfps> Axel: depends on other people!
17:13:56 <pfps> Chris: will put email on list of to-be-read
17:14:02 <pfps> Axel: should I prepare slides?
17:14:07 <pfps> Chris:  YES!!!!!!!!!!!
17:14:27 <pfps> Axel:  will produce something by Monday
17:14:36 <ChrisW> action: axel to send slides on proposed rifraf ontology
17:14:36 <rifbot> Created ACTION-227 - Send slides on proposed rifraf ontology [on Axel Polleres - due 2007-02-20].
17:15:06 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
17:15:06 <Zakim> agendum 6. "RIFRAF" taken up [from ChrisW]
17:15:15 <pfps> Chris: other business - going once, going twice, gone
17:15:20 <PaulaP> +1
17:15:21 <csma> +1
17:15:22 <Zakim> -IgorMozetic
17:15:26 <Zakim> -PaulVincent
17:15:27 <Allen> bye
17:15:30 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres
17:15:31 <Zakim> -StellaMitchell
17:15:31 <Zakim> -Gary_Hallmark
17:15:32 <PaulaP> bye
17:15:32 <Zakim> -DavidHirtle
17:15:33 <Zakim> -Dave_Reynolds
17:15:34 <Zakim> -Harold
17:15:34 <johnhall> Bye
17:15:34 <pfps> Chris: DONE
17:15:35 <Zakim> -PaulaP
17:15:35 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make mintues
17:15:35 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make mintues', ChrisW.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
17:15:36 <Zakim> -josb
17:15:37 <Zakim> -Allen_Ginsberg
17:15:38 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has left #rif
17:15:45 <Zakim> -Sandro
17:15:48 <Zakim> -johnhall
17:15:50 <Zakim> -Michael_Kifer
17:16:12 <csma> zakim, who is on the phone?
17:16:12 <Zakim> On the phone I see csma (muted), ChrisW, agiurca (muted), pfps
17:16:20 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make minutes
17:16:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/02/13-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
17:17:29 <Zakim> -pfps
17:17:36 <csma> zakim, unmute me
17:17:36 <Zakim> csma should no longer be muted
17:17:38 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?
17:17:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see csma, ChrisW, agiurca (muted)
17:17:46 <agiurca> -agiurca
17:17:51 <Zakim> -agiurca
17:18:10 <csma> csma has left #rif
17:21:08 <Zakim> -ChrisW
17:21:12 <Zakim> -csma
17:21:14 <Zakim> SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
17:21:16 <Zakim> Attendees were +39.022.399.aaaa, csma, Harold, ChrisW, IgorMozetic, josb, PaulaP, agiurca, Allen_Ginsberg, Sandro, StellaMitchell, DavidHirtle, Dave_Reynolds, Leora_Morgenstern,
17:21:18 <Zakim> ... pfps, PaulVincent, Michael_Kifer, Gary_Hallmark, johnhall, AxelPolleres
17:21:20 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make minutes
17:21:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/02/13-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
17:21:27 <ChrisW> oops
17:21:56 <ChrisW> Regrets: FrançoisBry DeborahNichols MarkusKrötzsch MohamedZergaoui (IRC only) IgorMozetic
17:22:05 <ChrisW> Scribe: Peter Patel-Schneider
17:22:10 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make minutes
17:22:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/02/13-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
17:23:07 <ChrisW> ok, give it a sec - that should be it