IRC log of dawg on 2007-02-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:25:50 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #dawg

14:25:50 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/02/13-dawg-irc

14:25:54 [LeeF]

zakim, this will be DAWG

14:25:54 [Zakim]

ok, LeeF; I see SW_DAWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes

14:26:02 [LeeF]

Meeting: RDF DAWG Weekly

14:26:09 [LeeF]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JanMar/0075.html

14:26:14 [LeeF]

Chair: LeeF

14:26:17 [LeeF]

Scribe: ericP

14:26:25 [ericP]

afs, can i get a write lock for a moment?

14:26:33 [LeeF]

agenda + convene

14:26:36 [LeeF]

agenda + review action items

14:26:43 [LeeF]

agenda + test suite

14:26:44 [Zakim]

SW_DAWG()9:30AM has now started

14:26:47 [LeeF]

agenda + base IRI

14:26:51 [Zakim]

+??P7

14:26:53 [AndyS]

zakim, ??P7 is me

14:26:53 [Zakim]

+AndyS; got it

14:26:56 [LeeF]

agenda + minimal test suite

14:26:56 [ericP]

AndyS, can i get a write lock for a moment?

14:27:01 [LeeF]

agenda + rq25 status

14:27:12 [Zakim]

+EliasT

14:27:32 [Zakim]

+[IBMCambridge]

14:27:38 [Zakim]

+Simon_Raboczi

14:27:40 [LeeF]

zakim, IBMCambridge is me

14:27:40 [Zakim]

+LeeF; got it

14:27:46 [AndyS]

EricP - I have some changes out (on the other machine :-) - is it one area or doc-wide? I've only chnaged a small section in the hope that merge works :-|

14:28:49 [EliasT]

Zakim, mute me

14:28:49 [Zakim]

EliasT should now be muted

14:28:57 [EliasT]

Zakim, mute me por favor

14:28:57 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'mute me por favor', EliasT

14:29:00 [ericP]

AndyS, i want to globally replace... ^Q i want to put in an anchor for lee

14:29:03 [EliasT]

Zakim, por favor mute me

14:29:03 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'por favor mute me', EliasT

14:29:55 [LeeF]

relIRIs

14:30:29 [ericP]

Zakim, s'il-te-plaît, rendre EliasT muet

14:30:29 [Zakim]

I don't understand 's'il-te-plaît, rendre EliasT muet', ericP

14:30:31 [AndyS]

Appendix? or 4.1? that should "just work"

14:30:46 [LeeF]

4.1 i think

14:31:01 [LeeF]

go ahead, Eric

14:31:29 [Zakim]

+ +33.9.52.56.aaaa

14:31:39 [ericP]

Zakim, 33.9.52.56.aaaa is me

14:31:39 [Zakim]

sorry, ericP, I do not recognize a party named '33.9.52.56.aaaa'

14:31:44 [ericP]

Zakim, +33.9.52.56.aaaa is me

14:31:44 [Zakim]

+ericP; got it

14:31:53 [LeeF]

zakim, who's on the phone?

14:31:53 [Zakim]

On the phone I see AndyS, EliasT (muted), LeeF, Simon_Raboczi, ericP

14:32:23 [SimonR]

We have regrets from Souri (from previous minutes) and PatH (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JanMar/0077.html)

14:32:35 [LeeF]

Regrets: Souri, PatH

14:32:46 [ericP]

Meeting: Data Access Working Group weekly telecon

14:32:52 [ericP]

Chair: LeeF

14:33:07 [ericP]

Scribe: ericP

14:33:09 [LeeF]

minutes from two weeks ago: http://www.w3.org/2007/01/30-dawg-minutes

14:33:20 [ericP]

zakim, take up first agendum

14:33:20 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'take up first agendum', ericP

14:33:26 [ericP]

zakim, take up agendum 1

14:33:26 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "convene" taken up [from LeeF]

14:34:14 [LeeF]

minutes from last week: http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-dawg-minutes

14:34:43 [ericP]

RESOLVED: accept http://www.w3.org/2007/01/30-dawg-minutes as a true record of the 30 Jan meeting

14:35:22 [ericP]

RESOLVED: accept http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-dawg-minutes as a true record of the 6 Feb meeting

14:35:42 [EliasT]

I'll scribe.

14:35:56 [ericP]

Next Meeting: 20 Feb, scribe: EliasT

14:36:07 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

14:36:12 [jeen]

Zakim, [IPcaller] is me

14:36:12 [Zakim]

+jeen; got it

14:36:25 [ericP]

Zakim, take up next agendum

14:36:25 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "review action items" taken up [from LeeF]

14:37:28 [LeeF]

ACTION: Lee to adapt text from 4.1.1 to specify how the protocol can contribute to the base IRI for query evaluation as per #relIRIs in the QL spec [DONE]

14:37:35 [LeeF]

ACTION: LeeF to add Andy's bnode label scope tests to CVS as unapproved syntax tests [DONE]

14:37:45 [Zakim]

+Orri_Erling

14:37:45 [ericP]

[DONE] ACTION: Lee to adapt text from 4.1.1 to specify how the protocol can contribute to the base IRI for query evaluation as per #relIRIs in the QL spec

14:37:52 [LeeF]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: AndyS to add text clarifying the prohibition on blank node labels in multiple BGPs to rq25

14:38:02 [ericP]

[DONE] ACTION: LeeF to add Andy's bnode label scope tests to CVS as unapproved syntax tests

14:38:31 [ericP]

action -1

14:38:34 [ericP]

action -2

14:38:50 [ericP]

ACTION: AndyS to add text clarifying the prohibition on blank node labels in multiple BGPs to rq25 [CONTINUES]

14:39:38 [ericP]

ACTION: EricP to run the yacker tool over and annotate the existing tests [CONTINUES]

14:39:42 [ericP]

ACTION: LeeF to remember that the wee, lost filter tests should be put [CONTINUES]

14:39:44 [ericP]

ACTION: Lee to talk to protocol editors re: POSTing application/sparql-query [CONTINUES]

14:39:59 [ericP]

Zakim, take up next agendum

14:39:59 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "test suite" taken up [from LeeF]

14:40:01 [LeeF]

Andy's blank node label tests: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JanMar/0068.html

14:40:52 [Zakim]

-Simon_Raboczi

14:40:55 [LeeF]

My results for these tests: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JanMar/0074.html

14:43:17 [Zakim]

+Simon_Raboczi

14:44:59 [Zakim]

-Simon_Raboczi

14:45:32 [LeeF]

PROPOSE: to approve the syntax tests in data-r2/syntax-sparql4/manifest.ttl

14:45:59 [ericP]

APPROVED

14:46:46 [Zakim]

+Simon_Raboczi

14:47:06 [ericP]

http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-dawg-minutes.html

14:47:27 [ericP]

-> http://www.w3.org/2007/02/13-dawg-minutes.html today's minutes

14:47:34 [LeeF]

zakim, take up next agendum

14:47:34 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "base IRI" taken up [from LeeF]

14:48:03 [LeeF]

re: base IRI and rfc 3986:

14:48:03 [LeeF]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JanMar/0067.html

14:48:07 [LeeF]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JanMar/0074.html

14:48:14 [ericP]

LeeF: most substantial issue was the base IRI

14:48:28 [EliasT]

Zakim, please unmute me

14:48:28 [Zakim]

EliasT should no longer be muted

14:48:45 [ericP]

... RFC3986 contains a series of resolution steps for base URIs

14:49:00 [ericP]

... there was text in rq?? but not in protocol

14:49:30 [EliasT]

http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3986.txt

14:49:31 [jeen]

fixed manifest checked in now.

14:49:53 [ericP]

... when drafting, I had a different interpretation than ericP

14:50:54 [ericP]

[[

14:50:55 [ericP]

if a URI was used to retrieve the

14:50:56 [ericP]

representation, that URI shall be considered the base URI

14:50:57 [ericP]

]]

14:51:23 [ericP]

... base URI should be HTTP GET with query parameters at the end

14:51:42 [ericP]

... in the SOAP/POST query, it should be just the endpoint

14:52:46 [LeeF]

Otherwise, the

14:52:46 [LeeF]

"Retrieval URI" identified in 5.1.3, Base "URI from the Retrieval URI", is

14:52:46 [LeeF]

14:52:46 [LeeF]

the complete URL used to send a particular SPARQL query to a SPARQL

14:52:46 [LeeF]

protocol service implementing the SparqlQuery

14:52:47 [LeeF]

interface.Determining the Base IRI

14:52:49 [LeeF]

14:52:51 [LeeF]

Relative IRIs that appear in a [SPARQL] query are resolved against a base

14:52:54 [LeeF]

IRI as per [RFC3986] section 5.1, "Establishing a Base URI". If present in

14:52:55 [LeeF]

the query, the BASE keyword defines the Base IRI used to resolve relative

14:52:57 [LeeF]

IRIs per RFC3986 section 5.1.1, "Base URI Embedded in Content". Otherwise,

14:52:59 [LeeF]

Section 5.1.2, "Base URI from the Encapsulating Entity", defines how the

14:53:01 [LeeF]

Base IRI may come from an encapsulating document, such as a SOAP envelope

14:53:03 [LeeF]

with an xml:base directive. (See 2.3 SOAP Envelope.

14:53:05 [LeeF]

If none of the above specifies the Base URI, the default Base

14:53:07 [LeeF]

URI (section 5.1.4, "Default Base URI") is used.

14:55:10 [LeeF]

(scratch that text, copy/paste issues)

14:58:45 [EliasT]

Zakim, mute me

14:58:45 [Zakim]

EliasT should now be muted

14:59:53 [ericP]

http://service.exmaple/SPARQL?quer=..+++++...&named="sdfd3434554654#$$5"

15:00:16 [ericP]

WHERE { <.> ?s ?o }

15:00:26 [ericP]

<http://service.exmaple/SPARQL

15:00:28 [ericP]

>

15:00:32 [ericP]

<http://service.exmaple/>

15:00:35 [EliasT]

so the worry is simply if we explicitly say the endpoint URI and resolution is impacted by slashes we are in trouble.

15:00:55 [AndyS]

Only case Lee and I found was <#foo>

15:02:35 [Zakim]

-jeen

15:02:51 [LeeF]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JanMar/0073.html

15:03:11 [EliasT]

Zakim, please unmute me

15:03:11 [Zakim]

EliasT should no longer be muted

15:03:39 [ericP]

[[

15:03:42 [ericP]

The "Retrieval URI" identified in 5.1.3, Base "URI from the Retrieval URI", is the URL from which a particular SPARQL query was retrieved.

15:03:45 [ericP]

]]

15:06:39 [jeen]

jeen has joined #dawg

15:09:33 [LeeF]

from 1.2.2 (from Andy's email)

15:09:37 [LeeF]

[[

15:09:37 [LeeF]

...

15:09:37 [LeeF]

To use that access mechanism to perform an action on the

15:09:37 [LeeF]

URI's resource is to "dereference" the URI.

15:09:37 [LeeF]

15:09:38 [LeeF]

When URIs are used within information retrieval systems to identify

15:09:40 [LeeF]

sources of information, the most common form of URI dereference is

15:09:42 [LeeF]

"retrieval": making use of a URI in order to retrieve a

15:09:44 [LeeF]

representation of its associated resource.

15:09:46 [LeeF]

]]

15:09:54 [Zakim]

+??P32

15:10:02 [jeen]

Zakim, ??P32 is me

15:10:02 [Zakim]

+jeen; got it

15:11:59 [ericP]

does "from which a particular SPARQL query was retrieved." contradict using http://service.exmaple/SPARQL?quer=..+++++...&named="sdfd3434554654#$$5" as the endpoint?

15:12:06 [ericP]

s/endpoint/base/

15:12:13 [ericP]

EliasT: no

15:12:59 [ericP]

"from which a particular SPARQL query was retrieved. (Please note XXX in the SPARQL Protocol.)"

15:16:44 [SimonR]

Are we talking about where the query was retrieved from (e.g. an .rq file somewhere) or where the result set was retrieved from (the endpoint)?

15:17:25 [EliasT]

SimonR: both, sort of.

15:17:26 [LeeF]

SimonR, well we need the base IRI for the query... so the reading of 3986 should be the retrieval URI of the query -- but that could be either of your choices, right?

15:18:12 [SimonR]

Well, no...I'd say it would be the first. If we were being super-pedantic.

15:18:36 [EliasT]

right, but that's *if*, we currently don't support retrieving .rq queries.

15:19:02 [LeeF]

If you're processing http://example.org/sparql?query=SELECT...

15:19:02 [LeeF]

and I ask you for the retrieval URI of the query, is the correct answer "none" or "http://example.org/sparql?query=SELECT..." ?

15:19:34 [AndyS]

If there is a secondary retrive to get the query then that is the new base. c.f.

15:19:45 [AndyS]

SELECT FROM <http://example/daat

15:20:10 [AndyS]

SELECT FROM <http://example/data> which resets the base for reading the FROM

15:25:02 [Zakim]

-jeen

15:26:01 [LeeF]

04 01If you're processing http://example.org/sparql?query=SELECT...

15:26:01 [LeeF]

15:26:01 [LeeF]

and I ask you for the retrieval URI of the query, is the correct answer "none" or "http://example.org/sparql?query=SELECT..." ?

15:26:51 [ericP]

base OR xml:base OR resolutionURI OR service-defined

15:27:42 [ericP]

| service-defined is advised to default to service?mush

15:28:02 [LeeF]

15:28:02 [LeeF]

[[

15:28:02 [LeeF]

...

15:28:02 [LeeF]

To use that access mechanism to perform an action on the

15:28:02 [LeeF]

URI's resource is to "dereference" the URI.

15:28:04 [LeeF]

15:28:06 [LeeF]

When URIs are used within information retrieval systems to identify

15:28:08 [LeeF]

sources of information, the most common form of URI dereference is

15:28:10 [LeeF]

"retrieval": making use of a URI in order to retrieve a

15:28:12 [LeeF]

representation of its associated resource.

15:28:14 [LeeF]

]]

15:29:01 [ericP]

does "http://example.org/sparql?query=SELECT..." give a representation of a SPARQL query?

15:30:45 [SimonR]

+1 to extend

15:31:46 [ericP]

i think rfc3986.5.1.3("http://example.org/sparql?query=SELECT...") gives a base URI for the result set

15:32:22 [EliasT]

Zakim, mute me

15:32:22 [Zakim]

EliasT should now be muted

15:34:51 [EliasT]

Zakim, unmute me

15:34:52 [Zakim]

EliasT should no longer be muted

15:35:28 [LeeF]

<h20>

15:35:32 [LeeF]

<h2o>

15:35:48 [ericP]

{ ?chem :bondsTo <h2o> }

15:36:18 [AndyS]

also FROM <data.rdf>

15:41:57 [ericP]

PROPOSED: base uri resolution in sparql protocol comes from: base OR xml:base OR resolutionURI OR service-defined where service-defined is advised to default to service?mush

15:44:30 [ericP]

PROPOSED: The SPARLQ Protocol does not derefrence query URIs so 5.1.3 does not apply. Per 5.1.4, services must define their own base URI, which may be the service invocation URI.

15:48:20 [ericP]

PROPOSED: ed(The SPARLQ Protocol does not derefrence query URIs so 5.1.3 does not apply. Per 5.1.4, services must define their own base URI, which may be the service invocation URI.)

15:48:36 [LeeF]

seconded by EliasT

15:49:04 [LeeF]

approved, SimonR abstaining

15:49:05 [ericP]

APPROVED: SimonR abstains

15:49:25 [LeeF]

ACTION: Elias to add wording for PROPOSED: ed(The SPARLQ Protocol does not derefrence query URIs so 5.1.3 does not apply. Per 5.1.4, services must define their own base URI, which may be the service invocation URI.)

15:49:36 [LeeF]

zakim, agenda?

15:49:36 [Zakim]

I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:

15:49:37 [Zakim]

4. base IRI [from LeeF]

15:49:38 [Zakim]

5. minimal test suite [from LeeF]

15:49:40 [Zakim]

6. rq25 status [from LeeF]

15:49:51 [ericP]

LeeF: tx all for muddling through this

15:50:05 [ericP]

... tx to SimonR for review start

15:50:19 [ericP]

... all: please keep the reviews flowing

15:50:25 [Zakim]

-Orri_Erling

15:50:26 [Zakim]

-EliasT

15:50:33 [SimonR]

Adjourned at 15:50 Z.

15:50:34 [Zakim]

-LeeF

15:51:09 [Zakim]

-Simon_Raboczi

16:02:38 [Zakim]

-AndyS

16:02:51 [ericP]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

16:02:51 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/02/13-dawg-minutes.html ericP

16:03:01 [ericP]

Zakim, please make logs world-visible

16:03:13 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'please make logs world-visible', ericP

16:03:13 [ericP]

zakim?

16:03:18 [ericP]

ugh

16:03:47 [ericP]

RRSAgent, please make logs world-visible

16:03:58 [ericP]

huh, i thought it was different agents for the two

16:04:02 [Zakim]

-ericP

16:04:04 [Zakim]

SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended

16:04:08 [Zakim]

Attendees were AndyS, EliasT, Simon_Raboczi, LeeF, ericP, jeen, Orri_Erling

16:04:52 [LeeF]

ericP, it's like you've never worked here before :-)

16:05:32 [ericP]

yes, every day

16:22:43 [EliasT]

EliasT has left #dawg

16:28:18 [ericP]

minutes sent within 24 mins of getting off the phone -- a new record for me

16:28:35 [LeeF]

hear hear!