15:58:20 RRSAgent has joined #swd 15:58:20 logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-swd-irc 15:58:26 rrsagent, bookmark 15:58:26 See http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-swd-irc#T15-58-26 15:58:42 zakim, this will be swd 15:58:42 ok, TomB, I see SW_SWD()11:00AM already started 15:58:52 JonP has joined #swd 15:58:54 Meeting: SWD WG 15:58:59 Chair: Guus 15:59:32 rrsagent, please make record public 15:59:52 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Feb/0010.html 16:00:14 Antoine has joined #swd 16:00:38 Previous: http://www.w3.org/2007/01/30-swd-minutes.html 16:00:40 :-) 16:00:55 +JonP 16:01:02 +Ralph 16:01:07 Regrets: Daniel, Bernard, Elisa, Diego, Sean 16:01:07 +Antoine_Isaac 16:01:14 zakim, who's on the call? 16:01:14 On the phone I see ??P3, JonP, Antoine_Isaac, Ralph 16:01:31 zakim, ??p3 is TomB 16:01:31 +TomB; got it 16:01:46 aliman has joined #swd 16:02:49 +Guus 16:03:09 +??P32 16:03:16 zakim, ??p32 is Alistair 16:03:16 +Alistair; got it 16:03:58 guus has joined #swd 16:03:58 +??P0 16:04:08 zakim, who is here? 16:04:10 On the phone I see TomB, JonP, Antoine_Isaac, Ralph, Guus, Alistair, ??P0 16:04:14 On IRC I see guus, aliman, Antoine, JonP, RRSAgent, Zakim, TomB, RalphS, Simone 16:05:07 zakim, ??p0 is Simone 16:05:07 +Simone; got it 16:06:40 Topic: Admin 16:06:50 zakim, who's on the call? 16:06:50 On the phone I see TomB, JonP, Antoine_Isaac, Ralph, Guus, Alistair, Simone 16:07:54 Tom: none of the folks next up on the scribe list are present 16:08:05 ... I suggest a scribe nominee plus a backup scribe 16:08:28 http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/ScribeDuty 16:09:03 zakim, pick a scribe 16:09:03 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Guus 16:09:05 zakim, pick a scribe 16:09:05 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose TomB 16:09:07 zakim, pick a scribe 16:09:07 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Alistair 16:09:19 zakim, pick a scribe 16:09:19 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Guus 16:09:21 zakim, pick a scribe 16:09:21 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Antoine_Isaac 16:11:26 Scribe: Alistair 16:11:29 scribenick: aliman 16:11:54 TOPIC: ADMIN (10 min) 16:12:13 guus: PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the Jan 30 telecon: 16:12:14 http://www.w3.org/2007/01/30-swd-minutes.html 16:12:22 ralph: second 16:12:25 RESOLVED 16:12:34 guus: regrets for next telecon 16:13:22 ... ralph notified us of time of telecon issues between US & Europe. Propose to move to UTC 1500, so Europe is 2 weeks out of synch. 16:13:57 ralph: for those two weeks, telcon will be one hour earlier than usual for europeans. If that's ok we can leave it. I'd be willing to do one hour later. 16:14:07 guus: any objections to either solutions? 16:14:30 ... [no objectsions] propose to keep to W3C policy, on 13 March move to 1500 UTC. 16:14:42 RESOLVED: telecon moves to 1500 UTC on March 13 and thereafter (until October) 16:15:08 guus: news, tomb & I wrote news items for semantic web activity, link is in minutes fyi 16:15:21 ... scribing - list of scribes? 16:16:01 tomb: list of candidates for scribing is on the wiki. I propose to send out a list for next 8 weeks proposing primary and secondary scribe, then leave it up to people involved to say if they cannot attend. 16:16:41 ... if any other suggestions? group is small, don't know how to avoid having people who attend more scribe more. 16:16:43 http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/ScribeDuty 16:16:54 guus: propose we try tomb's suggestion for one round, then evaluate. 16:17:07 ralph: action is complete when tomb sends message to group. 16:17:07 Topic: SKOS 16:17:21 [CONTINUES] ACTION: TomB and Guus to look at proposal for assigning scribe duties [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/05-swd-minutes.html#action01] 16:18:18 scribenick: ralphs 16:18:27 ACTION: Alan to write down the general documentation requirements, in particular to those that are related to literal values, and how to represent that in skos [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action09] 16:18:29 -- continues 16:18:37 ACTION: Alan write up the preferredLabel modelling issue [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action01] 16:18:39 -- continues 16:18:48 ACTION: Alistair to raise a new issue about USE X + Y and USE X OR Y [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-minutes.html#action07] 16:18:50 -- continues 16:18:59 ACTION: Alistair to rephrase the old issue of skos/owl-dl coexistence and semantics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action08] 16:19:06 -- continues 16:19:36 ACTION: Alistair to summarizes the aspects of semantics of the skos data model [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action06] 16:19:57 -- continues 16:20:04 ACTION: Alistair to update the schedule for SKOS documents [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-minutes.html#action10] 16:20:13 Alistair: I sent email today "SKOS Deliverables" 16:20:17 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Feb/0021.html SKOS deliverables 16:20:46 ... would like comments on the deliverables before I update the Wiki 16:20:54 -- done 16:21:10 ACTION: Antoine to capture the issue on capturing relationships between labels [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action04] 16:21:12 -- continues 16:21:21 ACTION: Antoine to contact the submittors of #7 to see what they want to use skos for (as opposed to, say, owl) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action05] 16:21:25 -- continues 16:21:36 s/of #7/of use case #7/ 16:21:44 -- done 16:21:57 Antoine: I did send mail to the submittors, but did not copy the WG list 16:22:35 ACTION: Antoine to provide more use cases of uses of qualifiers [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action02] 16:22:38 -- continues 16:22:48 ACTION: Guus to check that this issue of more specialization than broad/narrow is on the issues list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action03] 16:22:49 -- continues 16:22:59 ACTION: Guus to check with Veronique on the terms being outside the iso standard [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action07] 16:23:01 -- continues 16:23:47 Guus: when can we expect to have a SKOS UCR draft for review? 16:24:12 ... does not need to be complete but does need to contain sufficient information to be interesting to outside readers 16:24:27 Antoine: requires deciding for all pending issues ... 16:24:51 Guus: no, the issues say how we're planning to satisfy the requirements; we don't need to resolve the issues before publishing UCR 16:25:13 Antoine: discussion of issues may bring in new requirements 16:25:22 ... do we feel the current requirements are sufficiently stable? 16:25:59 Guus: the UCR draft is sufficiently new to warrant outside review and comment; it does not have to be our final version 16:26:19 Antoine: we'd discussed beginning of March for publishing UCR. I think that is still achieveable 16:26:37 Jon: I still have some use cases to summarize 16:26:56 ... I have some Vocabulary Management use cases that I have not yet submitted 16:27:01 Ralph: are those separate from SKOS? 16:27:16 Jon: no, we raise some questions about how SKOS is used for vocabulary management 16:27:28 ... I will try to get these submitted by the end of the week 16:27:38 Antoine: if we have to take all the use cases into account ... 16:27:44 http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RawUCs 16:27:53 I look forward to Jon's vocab management + SKOS use cases ... we as yet have no SKOS requirements wrt to vocab management 16:28:03 ... we currently have 5 use cases that were contributed after the deadline 16:28:11 ... Daniel has also mentioned one other use case 16:28:27 ... it would be useful to have an idea of what we'll be able to include in the next UCR publication 16:28:40 Guus: there are too many use cases to include all of them 16:29:06 ... good to select some use cases that are representative and give a good overview 16:29:13 ... then point to others in the Wiki for more information 16:29:25 ... it will not be cost effective to include all 25 use cases in the document 16:29:44 ... we should not expect to be able to cover all of them 16:30:00 Ralph: yes, I support that 16:30:18 Guus: we did this for OWL (WebOnt WG) -- we selected 5 or 6 use cases that covered the area 16:30:33 ... leave it to the editors to decide which use cases to select and how large the set should be 16:30:44 ... somewhere around 7 might be nice 16:31:02 ... some of the use cases gave much more input than the others during our f2f discussions 16:31:35 ... I would like to start issue review next week 16:31:39 ... assign owners to each 16:31:52 scribenick: aliman 16:32:41 guus: in use cases diverge alot, in issues begin to converge - nice feeling 16:32:54 ACTION: guus to pick a SKOS issue and open it 16:33:00 q+ to suggest we confirm schedule at http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/Deliverables#SKOS 16:33:15 guus: any more on SKOS? 16:33:21 TomB, you wanted to suggest we confirm schedule at http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/Deliverables#SKOS 16:33:24 q? 16:33:38 tomb: ask that we look at the schedule on Deliverables page, is month 6 for WD reasonable? 16:34:13 guus: still a realistic schedule (antoine said). I would expect over month feb to see progress on the editor's draft, hopefully selection of use cases will make this easier. 16:34:25 antoine: still happy with month 6 16:34:42 TOPIC: RDFa 16:34:59 guus: no CG last week, haven't flagged issue of rec track yet. 16:35:06 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Feb/0018.html meeting record: 2007-02-5 RDF-in-XHTML telecon 16:35:10 ACTION: Guus to flag the issue of RDFa REC track on the coordination group [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-minutes.html#action03] 16:35:12 --continues 16:35:27 guus: ralph can you talk about this action later on this week? 16:35:49 ralph: sure 16:35:55 Ralph: yes, after 1700 UTC tomorrow 16:36:03 TOPIC: Recipes 16:36:19 ACTION: Bernard to raise new issue re IE6 hack [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action12] 16:36:21 --continues 16:36:37 ACTION: Jon to update issue list as per dropping of 1.2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action11] 16:36:39 --continues 16:36:50 ACTION: Jon to update issue list as per resolution of issue 1.1 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action10] 16:36:51 --continues 16:37:04 ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to issue 1.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14] 16:37:06 --continues 16:37:28 ralph: bug in the minutes (re issue process)? 16:37:44 ... leave to jon's discretion to move to issue tracker, may not have recorded to tracker 16:37:56 "RESOLUTION: Jon may move the Recipes issues list to tracker at his discretion" 16:38:02 -- http://www.w3.org/2007/01/30-swd-minutes.html 16:38:05 jon: I'm going to move the recipes issue into the tracker environment, not as rich as wiki but easier to maintain 16:38:35 guus: jon discussion? 16:38:50 [I don't see a bug in the previous meeting minutes -- just in our recollection of them :)] 16:38:53 jon: postpone until progress on issues. 16:39:06 TOPIC: Vocabulary Management 16:39:19 ACTION: Elisa to give first overview of what the status of the doc is and add comments and coordinate work on doc [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-minutes.html#action06] 16:39:21 --continues 16:39:33 ACTION: Guus to contact persons working on versioning in Knowledge Web [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-minutes.html#action05] 16:39:35 --continues 16:39:45 TOPIC: Semantic Integration 16:39:52 guus: no progress 16:40:11 q+ 16:40:30 Alistair: I would appreciate feedback on the breakdown of SKOS deliverables that I proposed 16:41:09 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Feb/0021.html [SKOS] deliverables [Alistair 2007-02-06] 16:41:17 guus: alistair proposes: use cases & requirements; test cases; primer; normative specification; machine-readable specification; vocabulary overview; FAQ-like notes 16:42:24 ... primer there is initial draft. Normative specification ... new doc. Machine-readable as appendix to normative spec. 16:42:40 ... e.g. RDF schema of OWL as appendix to spec & namespace doc. 16:43:18 Ralph: how is the Vocabulary Overview different from the Primer? 16:43:24 Guus: where does SKOS Core Guide go? 16:43:34 Alistair: Core Guide is input to Primer 16:44:09 ... the tables that are currently in the "SKOS Core Vocabulary Specification" I'm suggesting should become a separate document, called "Vocabulary Overview" 16:44:18 ... that would be like a reference companion 16:45:00 ... readers could go directly to Vocabulary Specification if they want to know details 16:45:14 Ralph: but if it's normative then it risk being different from the Normative Spec 16:45:27 Alistair: I suggest that the Vocabulary Spec be informative 16:45:47 Ralph: it feels wrong to me that the reference you expect people to use most frequently is non-normative 16:45:56 Alistair: I expect the Primer to be used most often 16:46:16 ... and for each item in the Vocabulary Overview there would be a link to the normative specification 16:46:21 scribenick: ralphs 16:46:44 Antoine: would the normative specification and the overview be redundant, at least from an organization perspective? 16:47:08 ... could we not continue the current organization of the SKOS documents 16:47:42 ... Spec would have a list of the constructs plus their semantics, Overview would have constructs plus informal account of semantics 16:47:50 Alistair: Overview would only have list 16:48:16 ... a human-readable namespace document, content-negotiated from the namespace 16:48:44 ... the normative specification is an account of the semantics, will have prose, will include more than just a list of the constructs plus a summary of their definitions 16:49:58 q+ to ask whether the Overview would be automatically generated 16:50:12 Ralph: if the proposal is to have 2 documents at the namespace URI, one RDF/OWL and the other HTML, I'd understand -- and support -- that proposal 16:50:29 tom: would overview be auto-generated? 16:50:36 q- 16:50:37 ... so the Vocabulary Overview is really just the HTML document at the namespace URI? 16:50:42 Alistair: yes, that's what I was thinking 16:51:40 ... with redirects the content doesn't have cover exactly the same material as the RDF/OWL but I still think it's good practice to keep the content covering the same thing, as would be required for content negotiation 16:52:15 scribenick: aliman 16:52:17 guus: AOB? 16:52:42 ... thanks all for attending the call, hope to do some actions next week, we are adjourned. 16:52:55 -Alistair 16:52:56 -Antoine_Isaac 16:53:00 -JonP 16:53:01 s/yes, that's/HTML namespace document is/ 16:53:04 Antoine has left #swd 16:53:08 zakim, list participants 16:53:08 As of this point the attendees have been JonP, Ralph, Antoine_Isaac, TomB, Guus, Alistair, Simone 16:53:25 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 16:53:25 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-swd-minutes.html aliman 16:53:33 [adjourned] 16:54:29 -Simone 17:03:19 lego l'itaiano, ma e difficile per me parlare 17:05:25 guus: l'italiano parlato č difficile anche per gli italiani. ci sono anche molti dialetti 17:05:32 stiamo discutando qualcosa... 17:08:32 grazie a tutti per l'aiuto e per il supporto, se volete poi venire in Italia per un viaggio, vi farņ da guida :) 17:10:46 -Guus 17:11:55 So, talking about SKOS and RDFa, I read that RDFa is developed by SWD and HTML WG both, but who may write FOAF implementation? Also can be useful and example of DOAP? 17:14:20 http://dublincore.org/documents/2007/02/05/abstract-model/ 17:19:58 -Ralph 17:20:01 -TomB 17:20:02 SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended 17:20:03 Attendees were JonP, Ralph, Antoine_Isaac, TomB, Guus, Alistair, Simone 17:21:13 http://efoundations.typepad.com/efoundations/2006/11/why_an_abstract.html - Pete's posting 18:57:47 rrsagent, bye 18:57:47 I see 19 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-swd-actions.rdf : 18:57:47 ACTION: Alan to write down the general documentation requirements, in particular to those that are related to literal values, and how to represent that in skos [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action09] [1] 18:57:47 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-swd-irc#T16-18-27 18:57:47 ACTION: Alan write up the preferredLabel modelling issue [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action01] [2] 18:57:47 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-swd-irc#T16-18-37 18:57:47 ACTION: Alistair to raise a new issue about USE X + Y and USE X OR Y [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-minutes.html#action07] [3] 18:57:47 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-swd-irc#T16-18-48 18:57:47 ACTION: Alistair to rephrase the old issue of skos/owl-dl coexistence and semantics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action08] [4] 18:57:47 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-swd-irc#T16-18-59 18:57:47 ACTION: Alistair to summarizes the aspects of semantics of the skos data model [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action06] [5] 18:57:47 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-swd-irc#T16-19-36 18:57:47 ACTION: Alistair to update the schedule for SKOS documents [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-minutes.html#action10] [6] 18:57:47 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-swd-irc#T16-20-04 18:57:47 ACTION: Antoine to capture the issue on capturing relationships between labels [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action04] [7] 18:57:47 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-swd-irc#T16-21-10 18:57:47 ACTION: Antoine to contact the submittors of #7 to see what they want to use skos for (as opposed to, say, owl) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action05] [8] 18:57:47 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-swd-irc#T16-21-21 18:57:47 ACTION: Antoine to provide more use cases of uses of qualifiers [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action02] [9] 18:57:47 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-swd-irc#T16-22-35 18:57:47 ACTION: Guus to check that this issue of more specialization than broad/narrow is on the issues list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action03] [10] 18:57:47 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-swd-irc#T16-22-48 18:57:47 ACTION: Guus to check with Veronique on the terms being outside the iso standard [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action07] [11] 18:57:47 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-swd-irc#T16-22-59 18:57:47 ACTION: guus to pick a SKOS issue and open it [12] 18:57:47 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-swd-irc#T16-32-54 18:57:47 ACTION: Guus to flag the issue of RDFa REC track on the coordination group [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-minutes.html#action03] [13] 18:57:47 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-swd-irc#T16-35-10 18:57:47 ACTION: Bernard to raise new issue re IE6 hack [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action12] [14] 18:57:47 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-swd-irc#T16-36-19 18:57:47 ACTION: Jon to update issue list as per dropping of 1.2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action11] [15] 18:57:47 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-swd-irc#T16-36-37 18:57:47 ACTION: Jon to update issue list as per resolution of issue 1.1 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action10] [16] 18:57:47 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-swd-irc#T16-36-50 18:57:47 ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to issue 1.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14] [17] 18:57:47 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-swd-irc#T16-37-04 18:57:47 ACTION: Elisa to give first overview of what the status of the doc is and add comments and coordinate work on doc [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-minutes.html#action06] [18] 18:57:47 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-swd-irc#T16-39-19 18:57:47 ACTION: Guus to contact persons working on versioning in Knowledge Web [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-minutes.html#action05] [19] 18:57:47 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-swd-irc#T16-39-33