IRC log of ws-desc on 2007-02-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:55:21 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #ws-desc
14:55:21 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/02/01-ws-desc-irc
14:55:44 [Jonathan]: Zakim, this will be wsdl
14:55:44 [Zakim]: ok, Jonathan; I see WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
14:55:55 [Jonathan]: Topic: Implementer's call
14:56:01 [Jonathan]: Meeting: WS Description WG telcon
14:56:04 [Jonathan]: Chair: Jonathan
15:02:23 [jkaputin]: jkaputin has joined #ws-desc
15:02:34 [Zakim]: WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM has now started
15:02:35 [Zakim]: +hughesj
15:03:17 [Zakim]: +Jonathan_Marsh
15:03:25 [Zakim]: -Jonathan_Marsh
15:03:35 [Zakim]: +Jonathan_Marsh
15:09:50 [charlton]: charlton has joined #ws-desc
15:14:38 [Zakim]: +Arthur_Ryman
15:15:27 [Arthur]: Arthur has joined #ws-desc
15:31:42 [plh]: plh has joined #ws-desc
15:31:50 [Zakim]: +Plh
15:44:59 [plh]: Namespace qualified elements tend to produce messages whose interpretation is less ambiguous than those with unqualified elements. The use of unqualified elements is therefore discouraged.
15:51:33 [Zakim]: -hughesj
15:57:14 [Zakim]: -Arthur_Ryman
16:00:12 [JacekK]: JacekK has joined #ws-desc
16:00:28 [charltonb]: charltonb has joined #ws-desc
16:01:01 [cbarreto]: cbarreto has joined #ws-desc
16:03:01 [Zakim]: -Plh
16:03:03 [Zakim]: -Jonathan_Marsh
16:03:04 [Zakim]: WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM has ended
16:03:05 [Zakim]: Attendees were hughesj, Jonathan_Marsh, Arthur_Ryman, Plh
16:03:09 [Jonathan]: Zakim, list conferences
16:03:09 [Zakim]: I see GA_WebCGM()11:00AM, MWI_BPWG()10:00AM, SW_HCLS()11:00AM, XML_ET-TF()10:00AM, Math_IG()10:00AM, XML_SchemaW(f2f)10:00AM, WAI_Team()10:45AM, WS_DescWG()11:00AM,
16:03:10 [monica]: monica has joined #ws-desc
16:03:13 [Zakim]: ... XML_PMWG()11:00AM active
16:03:14 [Zakim]: also scheduled at this time are DIG_TAMI()11:00AM, I18N_Core_WG(WS-I18N)11:00AM, VB_VBWG()10:00AM
16:03:17 [Jonathan]: Zakim, this will be WS_DescWG()
16:03:17 [Zakim]: ok, Jonathan, I see WS_DescWG()11:00AM already started
16:03:21 [Zakim]: +Plh
16:03:24 [Jonathan]: Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:03:24 [Zakim]: On the phone I see m2, Arthur_Ryman, Plh
16:03:30 [Roberto]: Roberto has joined #ws-desc
16:03:33 [Zakim]: +Charlton_Barreto
16:03:51 [Zakim]: +Jonathan_Marsh
16:04:16 [Zakim]: +Roberto
16:04:23 [jjm]: jjm has joined #ws-desc
16:04:30 [Zakim]: +Canon
16:07:01 [charlton]: charlton has joined #ws-desc
16:07:27 [jjm]: nick scribe-jjm
16:08:05 [jjm]: Minutes approved
16:10:10 [jjm]: TOPIC: One-Way SOAP
16:10:53 [jjm]: Jonathan: JJ, do you prefer to send your comments yourself or through the WG?
16:11:00 [jjm]: JJ: the latter sounds good to me.
16:11:04 [jjm]: Jonathan: ok, sent.
16:11:10 [jjm]: TOPIC: WSDL 1.1 identifiers
16:11:18 [jjm]: Jonathan: any comments?
16:11:29 [jjm]: Arhtur: I reviewed an earlier draft?
16:11:46 [jjm]: Jonathan: do you want to see if any was broken since you last looked?
16:11:51 [charlton]: WSDL 1.1 element identifiers document published by WS-Policy WH:http://www.w3.org/TR/wsdl11elementidentifiers/
16:12:02 [charlton]: s/WH/WG/
16:12:12 [jjm]: ACTION: Arthur to review the WSDL 1.1 identifier spec
16:12:22 [jjm]: nick scribe-jjm
16:12:51 [scribe-jjm]: TOPIC: Issue 145 (cont'd)
16:13:31 [Zakim]: +Gilbert_Pilz
16:14:01 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: we were about to limit the scope last week but wanted Arthur's position
16:14:11 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: also, I've proposed an amendment
16:14:19 [scribe-jjm]: Roberto: I like it
16:14:54 [asir]: asir has joined #ws-desc
16:15:10 [scribe-jjm]: Roberto: would prefer that the namespace be explicitely mentionned
16:15:50 [scribe-jjm]: Arthur: is it clear enough for you to implement?
16:15:59 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: can you not confirm that yourself?
16:16:08 [Zakim]: +??P42
16:16:38 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: my stylesheet implement has limits as to its exploring depth
16:17:48 [scribe-jjm]: Arthur: in the type section, if see a schema or xs:import, those components get included
16:17:57 [scribe-jjm]: Roberto: true for WSDL include
16:18:06 [scribe-jjm]: Arthur: not WSDL import (namespace issue)
16:18:15 [scribe-jjm]: s/)/)?/
16:18:36 [Zakim]: +Gilbert_Pilz.a
16:19:04 [gpilz]: gpilz has joined #ws-desc
16:19:57 [scribe-jjm]: Arthur: the only things we exclude are xs:import in an included schema
16:20:39 [scribe-jjm]: Arthur: edge case: we allowed top level xs schema with no top level namespace (issue 45)
16:20:50 [scribe-jjm]: Arthur: so, we would include those components
16:23:11 [scribe-jjm]: Arthur: they would all endup in the global no-namespace schema
16:23:18 [scribe-jjm]: Arthur: so non ambiguous
16:23:25 [scribe-jjm]: Roberto: I agree
16:24:58 [scribe-jjm]: PROPOSAL: Roberto's proposal amended by Jonathan email from 31/1/7, plus some editorial license
16:25:19 [scribe-jjm]: RESOLUTION: Roberto's proposal amended by Jonathan email from 31/1/7, plus some editorial license
16:25:27 [Zakim]: +??P43
16:26:05 [scribe-jjm]: TOPIC: Issue 117
16:26:17 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: a bit controversial last week
16:27:03 [JacekK]: q+
16:27:09 [Jonathan]: ack jacek
16:27:12 [scribe-jjm]: q+
16:27:31 [scribe-jjm]: Jacek: even if we use the flag, it would not go to LC
16:27:43 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: I would be prepared to argue that; don't want to go back to LC
16:28:35 [scribe-jjm]: Philippe: it is a change, no doubt, by the letter would have to go to LC, but negative reactions are likely to be low, so would support this option in front of the director
16:28:56 [Jonathan]: ack scribe
16:29:42 [scribe-jjm]: JJ: would prefer to hold resolution until Youenn is back next week
16:30:07 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: ok, but would like to continue discussion a little bit so we weed out the options
16:30:50 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: don't like options which don't allow people to %-escape things if they wish
16:31:09 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: what are people's preferences?
16:31:34 [scribe-jjm]: Jacek: 3 options: 1. no encoding; 2. full encoding; 3. partial encoding
16:31:46 [scribe-jjm]: Jacek: 1. no option for Jonathan
16:31:55 [scribe-jjm]: Jacek: 2. not an option for some
16:32:07 [scribe-jjm]: Jacek: so 3. looks like the easy option
16:33:08 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: citing a parameter allows it's name to be changed; this is orthogonal to escaping
16:33:31 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: often I would like to be able to encode
16:34:00 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: option 1 (as per the agenda, not Jacek's above) sounds better to me
16:34:21 [Roberto]: +1 for option 1 in the agenda
16:36:41 [scribe-jjm]: STRAWMAN: option 1 (from the agenda)
16:37:10 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: I suggested a syntax; but the default should be encoded; so # before a token to indicate raw instead
16:37:24 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: amenable to using a bracket instead
16:37:59 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: which character should be encoded? In my proposal for option 3, very restricted. Maybe I should...
16:38:54 [scribe-jjm]: ACTION: Jonathan to provide an enhanced option 1 for issue 117 by next week, using bits from the other proposals as indicated above
16:39:03 [scribe-jjm]: TOPIC: Issue 143
16:41:13 [scribe-jjm]: Philippe: should use Transfer-encoding instead of Content-encoding
16:42:02 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: wonder if Dave Orchard thought about other uses than zip
16:42:23 [scribe-jjm]: Philippe: Transfer-encoding is a section in the HTTP spec, so covers both
16:43:54 [Allen]: Allen has joined #ws-desc
16:44:13 [Zakim]: +??P2
16:44:25 [Allen]: zakim, ??P2 is Allen
16:44:25 [Zakim]: +Allen; got it
16:44:26 [gpilz_]: gpilz_ has joined #ws-desc
16:48:52 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: should go to Transfer-coding header
16:49:24 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: close today by moving to Content-encoding; or leave it open whilst getting feedback
16:49:48 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: would rather close this sooner since reason for many reds in tests
16:50:09 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: but a week is reasonnable
16:50:43 [scribe-jjm]: Philippe: we could use identity instead
16:50:57 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: JJ, you don't support gzip as I recall?
16:51:00 [scribe-jjm]: JJ: correct
16:51:25 [scribe-jjm]: Jacek: does the header have to be present, though? I suspect not
16:52:32 [plh]: [[ If the content-coding of an entity is not "identity", then the
16:52:32 [plh]: response MUST include a Content-Encoding entity-header
16:52:32 [plh]: (Section 14.11) that lists the non-identity content-coding(s) used. ]]
16:52:51 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: have to stick with gzip and accept some of our tests fail
16:53:31 [scribe-jjm]: TOPIC: Issue 135
16:54:23 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: proposal for a new feature, has to do with operation dispatch, related to a former issue using http-location to dispatch
16:54:53 [JacekK]: q+
16:56:06 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: so, generic binding and HTTP bindings don't work well together
16:56:22 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: hence propose location-default property
17:00:05 [Jonathan]: ack jacek
17:00:06 [scribe-jjm]: PROPOSAL: close with no action
17:00:15 [scribe-jjm]: RESOLUTION: as just proposed
17:00:21 [scribe-jjm]: TOPIC: Issue 144
17:02:12 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: add {http location ignore uncited} parameter
17:02:34 [scribe-jjm]: Arhtur: how many will we need to add?
17:02:48 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: this one for now; there's a concrete proposal
17:02:55 [scribe-jjm]: Arthur: ok
17:03:17 [Zakim]: -Charlton_Barreto
17:03:18 [scribe-jjm]: RESOLUTION: adopt the proposal in the my email
17:05:06 [scribe-jjm]: TOPIC: Issue 146
17:05:20 [charltonb]: charltonb has joined #ws-desc
17:06:16 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: {http location ignore uncited} and required schema data
17:06:29 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: required information may be dropped
17:06:50 [cbarreto]: cbarreto has joined #ws-desc
17:07:22 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: proposal is that if uncited, should be nillable
17:07:32 [scribe-jjm]: Arthur: don't quite like nillable
17:07:35 [Zakim]: +Charlton_Barreto
17:07:45 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: would prefer optional; but if nillable can still operate
17:08:05 [Zakim]: -Charlton_Barreto
17:08:13 [Jonathan]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2007Jan/0208.html
17:08:16 [Zakim]: +Charlton_Barreto
17:08:46 [scribe-jjm]: Arthur: would be ok if using min/maxoccurs
17:08:57 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: this is my amendment from this week
17:16:05 [scribe-jjm]: Asir: nillable is for the content
17:16:32 [scribe-jjm]: Arthur: here, if not being sent, but declared in schema as nillable, proposal is to reinsert the element and get a value nil=true
17:16:43 [scribe-jjm]: Arthur: is that equivalent to missing value for optional element?
17:17:23 [scribe-jjm]: Arthur: let's say instead element required, but is not present and has a default value
17:17:55 [scribe-jjm]: Asir: the infoset gets augmented with the default value
17:18:26 [scribe-jjm]: Asir: it gets added when the element is present and doesn't have content
17:18:38 [scribe-jjm]: Robertor: value can only be characters
17:18:56 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: so add or has to have a default
17:19:59 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: property must be defined as nillable, or has a default value, or has minoccurs=1
17:23:15 [scribe-jjm]: Arthur: we should check default further in the schema spec
17:24:47 [scribe-jjm]: Arthur: if element missing and has minoccurs=0, don't reconstitute
17:25:02 [scribe-jjm]: Arthur: if minoccurs=1 and default value, reconstruct
17:26:39 [scribe-jjm]: Arthur: would like a deterministic rule, needed for interop
17:27:05 [scribe-jjm]: Arthur: should say what we get after reconstruction
17:27:37 [scribe-jjm]: Jonathan: constraint: can mark both as nillable and have a default value
17:27:46 [scribe-jjm]: Arthur: maybe in schema spec already ;-)
17:28:25 [scribe-jjm]: Asir: from spec, if nillable, no other constraint
17:29:46 [scribe-jjm]: Jacek: from different section: if nillable, and not here, it's nil. If not nillable, and not there, default.
17:30:13 [Roberto]: karnaugh map
17:35:27 [scribe-jjm]: Roberto: let's take this to the list
17:35:50 [scribe-jjm]: ADJOURN
17:35:52 [Zakim]: -Allen
17:35:54 [Zakim]: -Roberto
17:35:54 [Zakim]: -??P43
17:35:57 [Zakim]: -Gilbert_Pilz.a
17:36:06 [Zakim]: -Arthur_Ryman
17:36:08 [Zakim]: -asir
17:36:24 [Zakim]: -m2
17:40:43 [Zakim]: -Plh
17:40:45 [Zakim]: -Jonathan_Marsh
17:40:48 [Zakim]: -Canon
17:40:51 [Jonathan]: RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:40:51 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/02/01-ws-desc-minutes.html Jonathan
17:53:09 [Marsh]: Marsh has joined #ws-desc
17:53:28 [Marsh]: RRSAgent, set minutes world
17:53:28 [RRSAgent]: I'm logging. I don't understand 'set minutes world', Marsh. Try /msg RRSAgent help
17:53:41 [Marsh]: RRSAgent, set log world
17:53:46 [Marsh]: RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:53:46 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/02/01-ws-desc-minutes.html Marsh
17:54:46 [charltonb]: zakim, who is on the phone?
17:54:46 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Gilbert_Pilz, Charlton_Barreto
17:54:54 [charltonb]: zakim, disconnect Charlton_Barreto
17:54:54 [Zakim]: Charlton_Barreto is being disconnected
17:54:56 [Zakim]: -Charlton_Barreto
17:55:10 [Marsh]: zakim, disconnect Gilbert_Pilz
17:55:10 [Zakim]: Gilbert_Pilz is being disconnected
17:55:11 [Zakim]: WS_DescWG()11:00AM has ended
17:55:13 [Zakim]: Attendees were m2, Arthur_Ryman, Plh, Charlton_Barreto, Jonathan_Marsh, Roberto, Canon, Gilbert_Pilz, asir, Allen
17:55:40 [Marsh]: Zakim, bye
17:55:40 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #ws-desc
18:50:16 [Marsh]: rrsagent, bye
18:50:17 [RRSAgent]: I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/01-ws-desc-actions.rdf :
18:50:17 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Arthur to review the WSDL 1.1 identifier spec [1]
18:50:17 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/01-ws-desc-irc#T16-12-12
18:50:17 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Jonathan to provide an enhanced option 1 for issue 117 by next week, using bits from the other proposals as indicated above [2]
18:50:17 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/01-ws-desc-irc#T16-38-54