IRC log of ws-desc on 2007-02-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:55:21 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
14:55:44 [Jonathan]
Zakim, this will be wsdl
14:55:44 [Zakim]
ok, Jonathan; I see WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
14:55:55 [Jonathan]
Topic: Implementer's call
14:56:01 [Jonathan]
Meeting: WS Description WG telcon
14:56:04 [Jonathan]
Chair: Jonathan
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WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM has now started
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15:15:27 [Arthur]
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15:44:59 [plh]
Namespace qualified elements tend to produce messages whose interpretation is less ambiguous than those with unqualified elements. The use of unqualified elements is therefore discouraged.
15:51:33 [Zakim]
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WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM has ended
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Attendees were hughesj, Jonathan_Marsh, Arthur_Ryman, Plh
16:03:09 [Jonathan]
Zakim, list conferences
16:03:09 [Zakim]
I see GA_WebCGM()11:00AM, MWI_BPWG()10:00AM, SW_HCLS()11:00AM, XML_ET-TF()10:00AM, Math_IG()10:00AM, XML_SchemaW(f2f)10:00AM, WAI_Team()10:45AM, WS_DescWG()11:00AM,
16:03:10 [monica]
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16:03:13 [Zakim]
... XML_PMWG()11:00AM active
16:03:14 [Zakim]
also scheduled at this time are DIG_TAMI()11:00AM, I18N_Core_WG(WS-I18N)11:00AM, VB_VBWG()10:00AM
16:03:17 [Jonathan]
Zakim, this will be WS_DescWG()
16:03:17 [Zakim]
ok, Jonathan, I see WS_DescWG()11:00AM already started
16:03:21 [Zakim]
16:03:24 [Jonathan]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:03:24 [Zakim]
On the phone I see m2, Arthur_Ryman, Plh
16:03:30 [Roberto]
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16:03:51 [Zakim]
16:04:16 [Zakim]
16:04:23 [jjm]
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16:07:01 [charlton]
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16:07:27 [jjm]
nick scribe-jjm
16:08:05 [jjm]
Minutes approved
16:10:10 [jjm]
16:10:53 [jjm]
Jonathan: JJ, do you prefer to send your comments yourself or through the WG?
16:11:00 [jjm]
JJ: the latter sounds good to me.
16:11:04 [jjm]
Jonathan: ok, sent.
16:11:10 [jjm]
TOPIC: WSDL 1.1 identifiers
16:11:18 [jjm]
Jonathan: any comments?
16:11:29 [jjm]
Arhtur: I reviewed an earlier draft?
16:11:46 [jjm]
Jonathan: do you want to see if any was broken since you last looked?
16:11:51 [charlton]
WSDL 1.1 element identifiers document published by WS-Policy WH:
16:12:02 [charlton]
16:12:12 [jjm]
ACTION: Arthur to review the WSDL 1.1 identifier spec
16:12:22 [jjm]
nick scribe-jjm
16:12:51 [scribe-jjm]
TOPIC: Issue 145 (cont'd)
16:13:31 [Zakim]
16:14:01 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: we were about to limit the scope last week but wanted Arthur's position
16:14:11 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: also, I've proposed an amendment
16:14:19 [scribe-jjm]
Roberto: I like it
16:14:54 [asir]
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16:15:10 [scribe-jjm]
Roberto: would prefer that the namespace be explicitely mentionned
16:15:50 [scribe-jjm]
Arthur: is it clear enough for you to implement?
16:15:59 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: can you not confirm that yourself?
16:16:08 [Zakim]
16:16:38 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: my stylesheet implement has limits as to its exploring depth
16:17:48 [scribe-jjm]
Arthur: in the type section, if see a schema or xs:import, those components get included
16:17:57 [scribe-jjm]
Roberto: true for WSDL include
16:18:06 [scribe-jjm]
Arthur: not WSDL import (namespace issue)
16:18:15 [scribe-jjm]
16:18:36 [Zakim]
16:19:04 [gpilz]
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16:19:57 [scribe-jjm]
Arthur: the only things we exclude are xs:import in an included schema
16:20:39 [scribe-jjm]
Arthur: edge case: we allowed top level xs schema with no top level namespace (issue 45)
16:20:50 [scribe-jjm]
Arthur: so, we would include those components
16:23:11 [scribe-jjm]
Arthur: they would all endup in the global no-namespace schema
16:23:18 [scribe-jjm]
Arthur: so non ambiguous
16:23:25 [scribe-jjm]
Roberto: I agree
16:24:58 [scribe-jjm]
PROPOSAL: Roberto's proposal amended by Jonathan email from 31/1/7, plus some editorial license
16:25:19 [scribe-jjm]
RESOLUTION: Roberto's proposal amended by Jonathan email from 31/1/7, plus some editorial license
16:25:27 [Zakim]
16:26:05 [scribe-jjm]
TOPIC: Issue 117
16:26:17 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: a bit controversial last week
16:27:03 [JacekK]
16:27:09 [Jonathan]
ack jacek
16:27:12 [scribe-jjm]
16:27:31 [scribe-jjm]
Jacek: even if we use the flag, it would not go to LC
16:27:43 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: I would be prepared to argue that; don't want to go back to LC
16:28:35 [scribe-jjm]
Philippe: it is a change, no doubt, by the letter would have to go to LC, but negative reactions are likely to be low, so would support this option in front of the director
16:28:56 [Jonathan]
ack scribe
16:29:42 [scribe-jjm]
JJ: would prefer to hold resolution until Youenn is back next week
16:30:07 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: ok, but would like to continue discussion a little bit so we weed out the options
16:30:50 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: don't like options which don't allow people to %-escape things if they wish
16:31:09 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: what are people's preferences?
16:31:34 [scribe-jjm]
Jacek: 3 options: 1. no encoding; 2. full encoding; 3. partial encoding
16:31:46 [scribe-jjm]
Jacek: 1. no option for Jonathan
16:31:55 [scribe-jjm]
Jacek: 2. not an option for some
16:32:07 [scribe-jjm]
Jacek: so 3. looks like the easy option
16:33:08 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: citing a parameter allows it's name to be changed; this is orthogonal to escaping
16:33:31 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: often I would like to be able to encode
16:34:00 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: option 1 (as per the agenda, not Jacek's above) sounds better to me
16:34:21 [Roberto]
+1 for option 1 in the agenda
16:36:41 [scribe-jjm]
STRAWMAN: option 1 (from the agenda)
16:37:10 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: I suggested a syntax; but the default should be encoded; so # before a token to indicate raw instead
16:37:24 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: amenable to using a bracket instead
16:37:59 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: which character should be encoded? In my proposal for option 3, very restricted. Maybe I should...
16:38:54 [scribe-jjm]
ACTION: Jonathan to provide an enhanced option 1 for issue 117 by next week, using bits from the other proposals as indicated above
16:39:03 [scribe-jjm]
TOPIC: Issue 143
16:41:13 [scribe-jjm]
Philippe: should use Transfer-encoding instead of Content-encoding
16:42:02 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: wonder if Dave Orchard thought about other uses than zip
16:42:23 [scribe-jjm]
Philippe: Transfer-encoding is a section in the HTTP spec, so covers both
16:43:54 [Allen]
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16:44:13 [Zakim]
16:44:25 [Allen]
zakim, ??P2 is Allen
16:44:25 [Zakim]
+Allen; got it
16:44:26 [gpilz_]
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16:48:52 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: should go to Transfer-coding header
16:49:24 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: close today by moving to Content-encoding; or leave it open whilst getting feedback
16:49:48 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: would rather close this sooner since reason for many reds in tests
16:50:09 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: but a week is reasonnable
16:50:43 [scribe-jjm]
Philippe: we could use identity instead
16:50:57 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: JJ, you don't support gzip as I recall?
16:51:00 [scribe-jjm]
JJ: correct
16:51:25 [scribe-jjm]
Jacek: does the header have to be present, though? I suspect not
16:52:32 [plh]
[[ If the content-coding of an entity is not "identity", then the
16:52:32 [plh]
response MUST include a Content-Encoding entity-header
16:52:32 [plh]
(Section 14.11) that lists the non-identity content-coding(s) used. ]]
16:52:51 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: have to stick with gzip and accept some of our tests fail
16:53:31 [scribe-jjm]
TOPIC: Issue 135
16:54:23 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: proposal for a new feature, has to do with operation dispatch, related to a former issue using http-location to dispatch
16:54:53 [JacekK]
16:56:06 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: so, generic binding and HTTP bindings don't work well together
16:56:22 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: hence propose location-default property
17:00:05 [Jonathan]
ack jacek
17:00:06 [scribe-jjm]
PROPOSAL: close with no action
17:00:15 [scribe-jjm]
RESOLUTION: as just proposed
17:00:21 [scribe-jjm]
TOPIC: Issue 144
17:02:12 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: add {http location ignore uncited} parameter
17:02:34 [scribe-jjm]
Arhtur: how many will we need to add?
17:02:48 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: this one for now; there's a concrete proposal
17:02:55 [scribe-jjm]
Arthur: ok
17:03:17 [Zakim]
17:03:18 [scribe-jjm]
RESOLUTION: adopt the proposal in the my email
17:05:06 [scribe-jjm]
TOPIC: Issue 146
17:05:20 [charltonb]
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17:06:16 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: {http location ignore uncited} and required schema data
17:06:29 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: required information may be dropped
17:06:50 [cbarreto]
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17:07:22 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: proposal is that if uncited, should be nillable
17:07:32 [scribe-jjm]
Arthur: don't quite like nillable
17:07:35 [Zakim]
17:07:45 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: would prefer optional; but if nillable can still operate
17:08:05 [Zakim]
17:08:13 [Jonathan]
17:08:16 [Zakim]
17:08:46 [scribe-jjm]
Arthur: would be ok if using min/maxoccurs
17:08:57 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: this is my amendment from this week
17:16:05 [scribe-jjm]
Asir: nillable is for the content
17:16:32 [scribe-jjm]
Arthur: here, if not being sent, but declared in schema as nillable, proposal is to reinsert the element and get a value nil=true
17:16:43 [scribe-jjm]
Arthur: is that equivalent to missing value for optional element?
17:17:23 [scribe-jjm]
Arthur: let's say instead element required, but is not present and has a default value
17:17:55 [scribe-jjm]
Asir: the infoset gets augmented with the default value
17:18:26 [scribe-jjm]
Asir: it gets added when the element is present and doesn't have content
17:18:38 [scribe-jjm]
Robertor: value can only be characters
17:18:56 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: so add or has to have a default
17:19:59 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: property must be defined as nillable, or has a default value, or has minoccurs=1
17:23:15 [scribe-jjm]
Arthur: we should check default further in the schema spec
17:24:47 [scribe-jjm]
Arthur: if element missing and has minoccurs=0, don't reconstitute
17:25:02 [scribe-jjm]
Arthur: if minoccurs=1 and default value, reconstruct
17:26:39 [scribe-jjm]
Arthur: would like a deterministic rule, needed for interop
17:27:05 [scribe-jjm]
Arthur: should say what we get after reconstruction
17:27:37 [scribe-jjm]
Jonathan: constraint: can mark both as nillable and have a default value
17:27:46 [scribe-jjm]
Arthur: maybe in schema spec already ;-)
17:28:25 [scribe-jjm]
Asir: from spec, if nillable, no other constraint
17:29:46 [scribe-jjm]
Jacek: from different section: if nillable, and not here, it's nil. If not nillable, and not there, default.
17:30:13 [Roberto]
karnaugh map
17:35:27 [scribe-jjm]
Roberto: let's take this to the list
17:35:50 [scribe-jjm]
17:35:52 [Zakim]
17:35:54 [Zakim]
17:35:54 [Zakim]
17:35:57 [Zakim]
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17:40:51 [Jonathan]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:40:51 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Jonathan
17:53:09 [Marsh]
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17:53:28 [Marsh]
RRSAgent, set minutes world
17:53:28 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'set minutes world', Marsh. Try /msg RRSAgent help
17:53:41 [Marsh]
RRSAgent, set log world
17:53:46 [Marsh]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:53:46 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Marsh
17:54:46 [charltonb]
zakim, who is on the phone?
17:54:46 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Gilbert_Pilz, Charlton_Barreto
17:54:54 [charltonb]
zakim, disconnect Charlton_Barreto
17:54:54 [Zakim]
Charlton_Barreto is being disconnected
17:54:56 [Zakim]
17:55:10 [Marsh]
zakim, disconnect Gilbert_Pilz
17:55:10 [Zakim]
Gilbert_Pilz is being disconnected
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WS_DescWG()11:00AM has ended
17:55:13 [Zakim]
Attendees were m2, Arthur_Ryman, Plh, Charlton_Barreto, Jonathan_Marsh, Roberto, Canon, Gilbert_Pilz, asir, Allen
17:55:40 [Marsh]
Zakim, bye
17:55:40 [Zakim]
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18:50:16 [Marsh]
rrsagent, bye
18:50:17 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items saved in :
18:50:17 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Arthur to review the WSDL 1.1 identifier spec [1]
18:50:17 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
18:50:17 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jonathan to provide an enhanced option 1 for issue 117 by next week, using bits from the other proposals as indicated above [2]
18:50:17 [RRSAgent]
recorded in