IRC log of tsdtf on 2007-01-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:19:56 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #tsdtf

13:19:56 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/01/30-tsdtf-irc

13:20:05 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #tsdtf

13:20:14 [shadi]

zakim, this will be tsd

13:20:14 [Zakim]

ok, shadi; I see WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes

13:20:20 [shadi]

meeting: TSD TF

13:20:30 [shadi]

chair: CarlosV, Christophe

13:20:36 [shadi]

scribe: Shadi

13:20:42 [shadi]

scribenick: shadi

13:20:56 [shadi]

agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2007Jan/0026.html

13:21:13 [shadi]

agenda+ Report on WAI Testing Meeting

13:21:36 [shadi]

agenda+ Report on first F2F of Mobile Web Initiative Test Suites Working

13:21:36 [shadi]

Group

13:21:53 [shadi]

agenda+ TSD TF Wiki

13:22:04 [shadi]

agenda+ Locations in TCDL

13:22:11 [Christophe]

Christophe has joined #tsdtf

13:24:35 [Vangelis]

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13:30:10 [CarlosI]

CarlosI has joined #tsdtf

13:31:05 [Zakim]

WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM has now started

13:31:12 [Zakim]

+Christophe_Strobbe

13:31:17 [Zakim]

+encarna

13:31:59 [Christophe]

Zakim, encarna is CarlosI

13:31:59 [Zakim]

+CarlosI; got it

13:32:37 [Zakim]

+Vangelis_Karkaletsis

13:32:40 [Zakim]

+Shadi

13:34:32 [CarlosV]

CarlosV has joined #tsdtf

13:35:38 [Zakim]

+thomas

13:35:59 [Christophe]

Zakim, thomas is CarlosV

13:35:59 [Zakim]

+CarlosV; got it

13:36:42 [shadi]

agenda?

13:37:03 [shadi]

regrets: Daniela

13:37:35 [shadi]

regrets: Daniela, Michael

13:37:56 [CarlosV]

regrets: Tim

13:38:08 [shadi]

regrets: Daniela, Michael, Tim

13:38:55 [shadi]

zakim, take up agendum 1

13:38:55 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Report on WAI Testing Meeting" taken up [from shadi]

13:39:34 [shadi]

http://www.w3.org/2007/01/wai-testing

13:39:45 [shadi]

http://www.w3.org/2007/01/24-wai-testing-minutes

13:40:01 [shadi]

CS: joint meeting of several WAI groups on testing

13:40:16 [shadi]

...talked about a joint test repository

13:40:30 [shadi]

...identified some common needs accross the groups

13:40:59 [shadi]

...resources in each of the WGs are limited

13:41:16 [shadi]

CV: was it only WAI WGs?

13:41:31 [shadi]

CS: yes, only WAI WGs at this specific meetings

13:47:07 [shadi]

SAZ: started off with a broad discussion on testing to identify comonalities and differences

13:47:40 [shadi]

...different WAI WGs are at different stages with the Rec docs so different levels of committment towrds testing

13:48:11 [shadi]

...also different perspectives and aspects of what a test is between authoring tools, user agents, and content

13:49:08 [shadi]

...a common repository to store different kinds of tests seems to be the least common dinominator

13:49:31 [shadi]

...this may in fact be a W3C-wide issue and we need to pursue different approaches

13:49:57 [shadi]

SAZ: next steps are to generate a "white paper" or similar from the meeting results and present to WAI

13:50:14 [shadi]

...will go to the WAI Coordination Group and other groups to gather input

13:50:41 [shadi]

...in parrallel need to pursue other options such as open source tools or contributions

13:52:04 [shadi]

SAZ: it seems that MWI folks may in fact have similar needs for repository infrastructure

13:52:47 [shadi]

CS: also presented TCDL to the caucus

13:53:47 [shadi]

CV: nobody wanted TCDL as RDF?

13:54:12 [shadi]

CS: it did come up how test descriptions could be expressed as RDF

13:54:56 [shadi]

...and that it would be useful to have such descriptions using semantic web technologies

13:56:04 [shadi]

SAZ: no immediate results except to identify some of the differences

13:56:35 [shadi]

...that the WGs are at different stages and so more central coordination is needed rather than at the WG levels right now

13:57:32 [shadi]

zakim, close agendum 1

13:57:32 [Zakim]

agendum 1, Report on WAI Testing Meeting, closed

13:57:33 [Zakim]

I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

13:57:34 [Zakim]

2. Report on first F2F of Mobile Web Initiative Test Suites Working [from shadi]

13:57:43 [shadi]

zakim, take up agendum 2

13:57:43 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "Report on first F2F of Mobile Web Initiative Test Suites Working" taken up [from shadi]

13:58:03 [shadi]

CS: MWI have a "Test Suites WG" rather than a TF

13:58:22 [shadi]

...this was their first meeting

13:58:45 [shadi]

...the charter is fairly open and the discussion was more about scoping

13:58:59 [shadi]

...for example conformance testing vs interoperability testing

13:59:52 [shadi]

CS: different user agents interpret content differently and the specs may not cover all

14:00:20 [shadi]

...this may be covered in the interoperability testing whereas conformance testing refers to conformance to the spec

14:01:00 [shadi]

CS: WG is also looking for tools such a "test submission system" and a "test result submission system"

14:01:28 [shadi]

...to capture a wide variety of results from different user agents

14:02:04 [shadi]

CS: showed them WCAG techniques submission form

14:02:14 [shadi]

...they may consider this as well as other tools

14:02:36 [shadi]

...they will also look at existing test suites to see what they can reuse

14:03:06 [shadi]

...want to carry out a survey and to see what is there, and what is automated, etc

14:03:35 [shadi]

CS: pointed them to the review process that we have

14:03:56 [shadi]

...also looking for tools to review test cases and for test harness

14:04:56 [shadi]

CV: who are the participants of the WG?

14:05:29 [shadi]

CS: participants from SUN, NIST, and others

14:06:00 [shadi]

...two co-chairs Dominque from W3C and Carmello from NIST

14:07:10 [Christophe]

Minutes of MWI Test Suites WG F2F: http://www.w3.org/2007/01/25-mwts-minutes.html

14:07:49 [shadi]

http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/Tests/Meetings/Cambridge/agenda^

14:08:18 [shadi]

http://www.w3.org/2007/01/25-mwts-minutes

14:08:38 [shadi]

CS: David Rooks from Segala is also a participant of the WG

14:09:01 [shadi]

SAZ: he is also in ERT WG, he maybe interested in TSD TF as well

14:09:48 [shadi]

CS: most common need seems to be a submission system

14:10:36 [shadi]

CS: i'm on the list but don't know how much time i have to be able to participate

14:10:53 [shadi]

s/the list/the mailing list

14:12:44 [shadi]

zakim, close agendum 2

14:12:44 [Zakim]

agendum 2, Report on first F2F of Mobile Web Initiative Test Suites Working, closed

14:12:46 [Zakim]

I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

14:12:47 [Zakim]

3. TSD TF Wiki [from shadi]

14:12:55 [shadi]

zakim, take up agendum 3

14:12:55 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "TSD TF Wiki" taken up [from shadi]

14:13:10 [shadi]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2007Jan/0025.html

14:13:20 [shadi]

http://www.w3.org/2006/tsdtf/

14:13:48 [shadi]

SAZ: Wiki is set up

14:14:13 [shadi]

...everyone needs to create their accounts with a specific format

14:14:27 [shadi]

...acount names must look like FirstnameLastname

14:16:40 [shadi]

CS: Vangelis and myself have accounts, already started to play around

14:18:19 [shadi]

SAZ: next steps are to think about presenting the reviews

14:18:33 [shadi]

...may be good to make use of templates

14:18:51 [shadi]

...for the "structure" and "content" reviews

14:19:03 [shadi]

...and a central page to list the reviews

14:19:21 [shadi]

CS: yes, templates and some sort of a table of the available reviews

14:23:24 [shadi]

[discussion and trials with the Wiki ... create pages, orphan pages, site map, find pages, etc]

14:27:08 [shadi]

action: Vangelis to make an attempt at generating the two templates for the the "structure" and "content" reviews

14:27:43 [shadi]

action: Christophe to make an attempt at generating the central index page to all the currently available reviews

14:28:14 [shadi]

action: Shadi to link the Wiki from the TSD TF home page (and ERT WG home page)

14:30:50 [shadi]

zakim, close agendum 3

14:30:50 [Zakim]

agendum 3, TSD TF Wiki, closed

14:30:51 [Zakim]

I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:

14:30:53 [Zakim]

4. Locations in TCDL [from shadi]

14:31:00 [Zakim]

-Vangelis_Karkaletsis

14:31:07 [Zakim]

-Shadi

14:31:08 [Zakim]

-CarlosI

14:31:08 [Zakim]

-CarlosV

14:31:10 [Zakim]

-Christophe_Strobbe

14:31:12 [Zakim]

WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM has ended

14:31:13 [Vangelis]

Vangelis has left #tsdtf

14:31:13 [Zakim]

Attendees were Christophe_Strobbe, CarlosI, Vangelis_Karkaletsis, Shadi, CarlosV

14:31:18 [shadi]

zakim, bye

14:31:18 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #tsdtf

14:31:26 [shadi]

rrsagent, make logs world

14:31:32 [shadi]

rrsagent, make minutes

14:31:33 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/01/30-tsdtf-minutes.html shadi

14:31:37 [shadi]

rrsagent, make logs world

14:31:42 [shadi]

rrsagent, bye

14:31:42 [RRSAgent]

I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/30-tsdtf-actions.rdf :

14:31:42 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Vangelis to make an attempt at generating the two templates for the the "structure" and "content" reviews [1]

14:31:42 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/30-tsdtf-irc#T14-27-08

14:31:42 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Christophe to make an attempt at generating the central index page to all the currently available reviews [2]

14:31:42 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/30-tsdtf-irc#T14-27-43

14:31:42 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Shadi to link the Wiki from the TSD TF home page (and ERT WG home page) [3]

14:31:42 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/30-tsdtf-irc#T14-28-14