IRC log of wai-wcag on 2007-01-11

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:34:23 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
20:34:23 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-wai-wcag-irc
20:34:29 [ben]
RRSAgent, do not start a new log
20:34:37 [ben]
RRSAgent, make log world
20:34:44 [ben]
Meeting: WCAG Weekly Telecon
20:34:58 [ben]
zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
20:34:58 [Zakim]
ok, ben; I see WAI_WCAG()3:00PM scheduled to start 34 minutes ago
20:35:26 [ben]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2007JanMar/0007.html
20:35:43 [ben]
Chair: Loretta_Guarino_Reid
20:35:53 [ben]
ScribeOptions: -scribeOnly
20:36:50 [ben]
Regrets: Gregg_Vanderheiden, Sean_Hayes, Becky_Gibson, Sofia_Celic, Roberto_Ellero
20:36:58 [ben]
agenda+ Announcements, Questions, and Updates
20:37:10 [ben]
agenda+ ATAG 2.0 Comments
20:37:37 [ben]
agenda+ Team B Survey from 14 December (start with question #2 )
20:37:48 [ben]
agenda+ Action Item task force survey for 04 January
20:37:56 [ben]
agenda+ Team C survey for 04 January
20:43:08 [Bruce]
ATAG 2 comments results: http://tinyurl.com/y6yb2v
20:45:01 [rscano]
Jan is arriving....
20:45:28 [JR]
JR has joined #wai-wcag
20:47:31 [Christophe]
Christophe has joined #wai-wcag
20:53:09 [ben]
Regrets+ Don_Evans
20:56:42 [Zakim]
WAI_WCAG()3:00PM has now started
20:56:49 [Zakim]
+??P9
20:57:20 [bengt]
zakim clock seems a bit off
20:58:08 [Zakim]
+Jan_Richards
20:58:12 [Zakim]
-??P9
20:58:13 [Zakim]
+??P9
20:58:47 [Zakim]
+Loretta_Guarino_Reid
20:59:13 [Zakim]
+??P11
20:59:18 [ben]
zakim, ??P11 is Ben_Caldwell
20:59:18 [Zakim]
+Ben_Caldwell; got it
20:59:30 [ben]
zakim, who is on the phone?
20:59:30 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P9, Jan_Richards, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Ben_Caldwell
20:59:58 [David]
David has joined #wai-wcag
20:59:59 [ben]
zakim, ??P9 is Katie_Haritos-Shea
20:59:59 [Zakim]
+Katie_Haritos-Shea; got it
21:00:10 [Zakim]
+Christophe_Strobbe
21:00:16 [Zakim]
+Bruce_Bailey
21:00:33 [Zakim]
+David_MacDonald
21:00:36 [Zakim]
+Barry
21:01:05 [Zakim]
+Alex_Li
21:01:09 [Zakim]
+??P13
21:01:22 [Zakim]
+Cooper
21:01:27 [ben]
zakim, ??P13 is Roberto_Scano
21:01:27 [Zakim]
+Roberto_Scano; got it
21:01:30 [Zakim]
+??P19
21:01:38 [rscano]
zakim, I am Roberto_Scano
21:01:38 [Zakim]
ok, rscano, I now associate you with Roberto_Scano
21:01:39 [bengt]
zakim, ??P19 is Bengt_Farre
21:01:39 [Zakim]
+Bengt_Farre; got it
21:01:41 [ben]
zakim, Barry is John_Slatin
21:01:41 [Zakim]
+John_Slatin; got it
21:01:45 [Zakim]
+Cynthia_Shelly
21:02:15 [ben]
zakim, who is on the phone?
21:02:15 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Katie_Haritos-Shea, Jan_Richards, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Ben_Caldwell, Christophe_Strobbe, Bruce_Bailey, David_MacDonald, John_Slatin, Alex_Li, Roberto_Scano,
21:02:21 [Zakim]
... Cooper, Bengt_Farre, Cynthia_Shelly
21:02:43 [Zakim]
+Greg_Pisocky
21:03:06 [ben]
zakim, John_Slatin is Barry
21:03:06 [Zakim]
+Barry; got it
21:03:14 [Zakim]
+??P22
21:03:37 [ben]
zakim, ??P22 is Tim_Boland
21:03:37 [Zakim]
+Tim_Boland; got it
21:04:10 [Bruce]
ATAG 2 comments results: http://tinyurl.com/y6yb2v
21:05:54 [ben]
zakim, take up agendum 1
21:05:54 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Announcements, Questions, and Updates" taken up [from ben]
21:07:29 [ben]
scribe: David
21:08:00 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
21:08:19 [Andi]
Andi has joined #wai-wcag
21:08:23 [ben]
zakim, [IBM] is Andi_Snow-Weaver
21:08:23 [Zakim]
+Andi_Snow-Weaver; got it
21:08:33 [ben]
zakim, who is on the phone?
21:08:33 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Katie_Haritos-Shea, Jan_Richards, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Ben_Caldwell, Christophe_Strobbe, Bruce_Bailey, David_MacDonald, Barry, Alex_Li, Roberto_Scano (muted),
21:08:36 [Zakim]
... Cooper, Bengt_Farre, Cynthia_Shelly, Greg_Pisocky, Tim_Boland, Andi_Snow-Weaver
21:09:08 [ben]
zakim, close this item
21:09:08 [Zakim]
agendum 1 closed
21:09:09 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
21:09:11 [Zakim]
2. ATAG 2.0 Comments [from ben]
21:09:12 [ben]
zakim, take up agendum 2
21:09:12 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "ATAG 2.0 Comments" taken up [from ben]
21:09:27 [jslatin]
jslatin has joined #wai-wcag
21:10:22 [Zakim]
+John_Slatin
21:15:27 [Zakim]
+Treviranus
21:15:56 [David]
The WCAG group had some concern about ATAG citing specific techniques as benchmarks
21:16:21 [David]
s/specific/WCAG
21:17:07 [Greg]
Greg has joined #wai-wcag
21:17:28 [David]
One concern is that the WCAG techniques are not normative in WCAG and that making them normative in ATAG might cause confusion
21:22:18 [David]
The ATAG responds that these techniques are not normative per se, but the motiviation was to encourage the logevity of the Guidelines and allow for new technologies and authoring tools for those technologies. ATAG will take an action to remove the name WCAG techniques with no links and make it clear that they are not making them normative
21:23:58 [David]
Action: Jan Richards will to remove the WCAG techniques an links and make it clear that they are not making them normative but will encourage people to go to the WCAG guidelines
21:26:21 [David]
s/Richards/Richards will go back to ATAG
21:28:50 [David]
WCAG has concer that A.0.1 in ATAG is not promininent enough, hard to miss. Perhaps going to a "if.. then... statement"
21:34:18 [David]
Concern that there is no reference to UAAG, WCAG assumes that some of the UAAG issues are covered off... ATAG responds that they agree, lots of discussion about UAAG as a big part of the standard for making the AUthoring tool accessibile. WCAG is concerned that there was not much requirement to conform to UAAG. Jutta says that ATAG spent much time putting UAAG in and out and has concern...
21:34:20 [David]
...about rendering view verses editing view..
21:34:44 [David]
Loretta and Jan and Jutta will take this offline.
21:36:30 [David]
WCAG is not sure about the relation with Repair tools group and ATAG, Jan responds that they didn't want to bring in requirements that might be appriate for repair tools.
21:37:22 [David]
Recommend pointing to newest ATAG techniques
21:39:53 [Bruce]
41#
21:39:58 [Bruce]
#41
21:40:23 [Bruce]
q+
21:40:29 [David]
Katie congrats for the abstract, clear and concise. THe main concerned Part A and Part B priorities. Part A is interface Part B is content...: make some mention of what Part A and Part B is before you hit that part...
21:40:30 [MichaelC]
q+
21:40:36 [MichaelC]
ack k
21:43:07 [Zakim]
-Roberto_Scano
21:43:16 [Andi]
q+
21:43:24 [David]
Bruce wants clarify... PART A and Part B...both need to be satified to get ATAG compliance... Jutta says that there would be concern that Part A would not get enough attention if they divided out. THere was a resounding unanimous rejection of separating the 2 for that reason.
21:43:43 [MichaelC]
ack b
21:46:08 [Zakim]
-Bruce_Bailey
21:46:31 [Zakim]
+Bruce_Bailey
21:47:18 [David]
q+
21:50:47 [ben]
ack Michael
21:51:21 [David]
WCAG has suggestions for reordering to help those who are not "in the know"
21:52:21 [David]
know" about ATAG, just to make it more understandable... directs to WCAG comments.
21:52:46 [ben]
zakim, who is making noise?
21:52:53 [rscano_]
rscano_ has joined #wai-wcag
21:52:56 [David]
zakim, who's making noise?
21:52:59 [Zakim]
ben, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: Bruce_Bailey (16%), Andi_Snow-Weaver (28%)
21:53:10 [Zakim]
David, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: Treviranus (13%), Bruce_Bailey (44%), Andi_Snow-Weaver (40%)
21:53:13 [ben]
zakim, mute Bruce
21:53:13 [Zakim]
Bruce_Bailey should now be muted
21:57:16 [David]
Jutta said that they can create partial compliance statements that are simple and understandable.
21:57:29 [ben]
ack Anid
21:57:32 [ben]
ack Andi
21:57:34 [ben]
ack David
21:58:46 [ben]
ack Katie
22:00:22 [Bruce]
Who is talking?
22:00:27 [David]
Katie suggests adding a few other AT examples besides magnification and screen readers
22:00:36 [ben]
ack John
22:01:54 [ben]
ack Alex
22:12:22 [JR]
w3c-wai-au@w3.org
22:12:53 [David]
Jutta invites WCAG members to hold furthure discussions, and invites everyone submit comments for ATAG 2.0 to w3c-wai-au@w3.org today or tomorrow... Thanks to the ATAG team
22:12:55 [Zakim]
-Greg_Pisocky
22:12:57 [Zakim]
-Treviranus
22:12:58 [Zakim]
-Barry
22:13:00 [Zakim]
-Jan_Richards
22:13:01 [Greg]
Greg has left #wai-wcag
22:13:20 [ben]
zakim, close this item
22:13:20 [Zakim]
agendum 2 closed
22:13:21 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:13:22 [Zakim]
3. Team B Survey from 14 December (start with question #2 ) [from ben]
22:13:25 [ben]
zakim, take up agendum 3
22:13:25 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Team B Survey from 14 December (start with question #2 )" taken up [from ben]
22:13:43 [David]
ATAG member present were Greg_Pisocky,-Treviranus-Barry-Jan_Richards
22:14:12 [ben]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/teamb14dec2006/results
22:14:35 [David]
Topic: Team B survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/teamb14dec2006/results
22:15:59 [MichaelC]
q+ to vote in favor of advisory technique approach
22:16:00 [David]
q+
22:17:37 [MichaelC]
q-
22:18:43 [Bruce]
zakim, unmute me
22:18:43 [Zakim]
Bruce_Bailey should no longer be muted
22:19:01 [Bruce]
q+
22:20:06 [Zakim]
-Andi_Snow-Weaver
22:20:07 [Zakim]
+ +1.512.423.aaaa
22:20:36 [ben]
zakim, +1.512.423.aaa is Cynthia_Shelly
22:20:36 [Zakim]
+Cynthia_Shelly; got it
22:23:37 [Zakim]
-Tim_Boland
22:24:32 [David]
q+
22:24:52 [David]
ack d
22:25:02 [David]
ack c
22:25:16 [David]
ack b
22:25:22 [David]
ack k
22:27:55 [David]
q+
22:28:03 [Bruce]
bruce q-
22:29:21 [David]
q-
22:29:37 [David]
ack c
22:30:24 [David]
q+
22:31:23 [David]
q-
22:32:06 [ben]
ack John
22:32:42 [ben]
ack Alex
22:34:34 [rscano]
rscano has joined #wai-wcag
22:35:58 [ben]
ack Bruce
22:41:23 [Loretta]
This should be indepenent of screen resolution.
22:43:27 [David]
Visually rendered text can be resized without assistive technology up to 200 per cent without loss of content or functionality in a way that does not require the user to scroll horizontally.
22:45:33 [David]
Resolution: add level 3 SC "Visually rendered text can be resized without assistive technology up to 200 per cent without loss of content or functionality in a way that does not require the user to scroll horizontally."
22:46:01 [ben]
s/per cent/percent
22:47:36 [David]
Resolution: accept 930 as amended
22:47:54 [David]
Topic: 974
22:48:50 [Christophe]
zakim, mute me
22:48:50 [Zakim]
Christophe_Strobbe should now be muted
22:50:46 [David]
Resolution: accept 974 as amended
22:52:51 [David]
Resolution: no change to 2.4.6 , the proposed rewording was rejected
22:53:02 [ben]
zakim, close this item
22:53:02 [Zakim]
I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, ben
22:53:06 [ben]
q?
22:53:10 [ben]
ack Alex
22:53:13 [ben]
zakim, close this item
22:53:13 [Zakim]
agendum 3 closed
22:53:15 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:53:16 [Zakim]
4. Action Item task force survey for 04 January [from ben]
22:53:35 [ben]
zakim, take up agendum 5
22:53:35 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Team C survey for 04 January" taken up [from ben]
22:54:46 [David]
Topic: Team C Proposal to combine 1.3.1 and 1.3.4
23:00:08 [David]
Resolution: Accept the amended proposal to combine 1.3.1 and 1.3.4.
23:00:40 [David]
action: Team C repropose new response to 672 and remove the plain text technique for tables "presenting Tabular information in plain text"
23:03:33 [David]
q+
23:05:55 [David]
Resolution: accept failure Failure of 1.3.1 due to using changes in text presentation to convey information without using the appropriate markup.David will add an exampt that <p class="heading"> as failure
23:06:17 [Christophe]
zakim, unmute me
23:06:17 [Zakim]
Christophe_Strobbe should no longer be muted
23:06:27 [David]
s/exampt/example
23:07:25 [Zakim]
-Alex_Li
23:07:27 [Zakim]
-Katie_Haritos-Shea
23:07:27 [Zakim]
-Bengt_Farre
23:07:28 [Zakim]
-Christophe_Strobbe
23:07:29 [Zakim]
-John_Slatin
23:07:34 [ben]
Present: Katie_Haritos-Shea, Jan_Richards, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Ben_Caldwell, Christophe_Strobbe, Bruce_Bailey, David_MacDonald, Barry_Feigenbaum, Alex_Li, Roberto_Scano, Cooper, Bengt_Farre, Cynthia_Shelly, Greg_Pisocky, Tim_Boland, Andi_Snow-Weaver, John_Slatin, Jutta_Treviranus
23:07:59 [Zakim]
-Cooper
23:08:00 [Zakim]
-Ben_Caldwell
23:08:01 [Zakim]
-Loretta_Guarino_Reid
23:08:02 [Zakim]
-Bruce_Bailey
23:08:04 [Zakim]
-David_MacDonald
23:08:05 [Zakim]
-Cynthia_Shelly
23:08:11 [bengt]
bengt has left #wai-wcag
23:08:36 [Bruce]
Bruce has left #wai-wcag
23:12:05 [rscano]
rscano has left #wai-wcag
23:26:48 [ben]
RRSAgent, bye
23:26:48 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-wai-wcag-actions.rdf :
23:26:48 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jan Richards will to remove the WCAG techniques an links and make it clear that they are not making them normative but will encourage people to go to the WCAG guidelines [1]
23:26:48 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-wai-wcag-irc#T21-23-58
23:26:48 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Team C repropose new response to 672 and remove the plain text technique for tables "presenting Tabular information in plain text" [2]
23:26:48 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-wai-wcag-irc#T23-00-40
23:26:50 [ben]
zakim, bye
23:26:50 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Jan_Richards, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Ben_Caldwell, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Christophe_Strobbe, Bruce_Bailey, David_MacDonald, Alex_Li,
23:26:50 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #wai-wcag
23:26:54 [Zakim]
... Cooper, Roberto_Scano, Bengt_Farre, Cynthia_Shelly, Greg_Pisocky, Barry, Tim_Boland, Andi_Snow-Weaver, John_Slatin, Treviranus, +1.512.423.aaaa