IRC log of wai-wcag on 2007-01-11

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:34:23 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag

20:34:23 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-wai-wcag-irc

20:34:29 [ben]

RRSAgent, do not start a new log

20:34:37 [ben]

RRSAgent, make log world

20:34:44 [ben]

Meeting: WCAG Weekly Telecon

20:34:58 [ben]

zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG

20:34:58 [Zakim]

ok, ben; I see WAI_WCAG()3:00PM scheduled to start 34 minutes ago

20:35:26 [ben]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2007JanMar/0007.html

20:35:43 [ben]

Chair: Loretta_Guarino_Reid

20:35:53 [ben]

ScribeOptions: -scribeOnly

20:36:50 [ben]

Regrets: Gregg_Vanderheiden, Sean_Hayes, Becky_Gibson, Sofia_Celic, Roberto_Ellero

20:36:58 [ben]

agenda+ Announcements, Questions, and Updates

20:37:10 [ben]

agenda+ ATAG 2.0 Comments

20:37:37 [ben]

agenda+ Team B Survey from 14 December (start with question #2 )

20:37:48 [ben]

agenda+ Action Item task force survey for 04 January

20:37:56 [ben]

agenda+ Team C survey for 04 January

20:43:08 [Bruce]

ATAG 2 comments results: http://tinyurl.com/y6yb2v

20:45:01 [rscano]

Jan is arriving....

20:45:28 [JR]

JR has joined #wai-wcag

20:47:31 [Christophe]

Christophe has joined #wai-wcag

20:53:09 [ben]

Regrets+ Don_Evans

20:56:42 [Zakim]

WAI_WCAG()3:00PM has now started

20:56:49 [Zakim]

+??P9

20:57:20 [bengt]

zakim clock seems a bit off

20:58:08 [Zakim]

+Jan_Richards

20:58:12 [Zakim]

-??P9

20:58:13 [Zakim]

+??P9

20:58:47 [Zakim]

+Loretta_Guarino_Reid

20:59:13 [Zakim]

+??P11

20:59:18 [ben]

zakim, ??P11 is Ben_Caldwell

20:59:18 [Zakim]

+Ben_Caldwell; got it

20:59:30 [ben]

zakim, who is on the phone?

20:59:30 [Zakim]

On the phone I see ??P9, Jan_Richards, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Ben_Caldwell

20:59:58 [David]

David has joined #wai-wcag

20:59:59 [ben]

zakim, ??P9 is Katie_Haritos-Shea

20:59:59 [Zakim]

+Katie_Haritos-Shea; got it

21:00:10 [Zakim]

+Christophe_Strobbe

21:00:16 [Zakim]

+Bruce_Bailey

21:00:33 [Zakim]

+David_MacDonald

21:00:36 [Zakim]

+Barry

21:01:05 [Zakim]

+Alex_Li

21:01:09 [Zakim]

+??P13

21:01:22 [Zakim]

+Cooper

21:01:27 [ben]

zakim, ??P13 is Roberto_Scano

21:01:27 [Zakim]

+Roberto_Scano; got it

21:01:30 [Zakim]

+??P19

21:01:38 [rscano]

zakim, I am Roberto_Scano

21:01:38 [Zakim]

ok, rscano, I now associate you with Roberto_Scano

21:01:39 [bengt]

zakim, ??P19 is Bengt_Farre

21:01:39 [Zakim]

+Bengt_Farre; got it

21:01:41 [ben]

zakim, Barry is John_Slatin

21:01:41 [Zakim]

+John_Slatin; got it

21:01:45 [Zakim]

+Cynthia_Shelly

21:02:15 [ben]

zakim, who is on the phone?

21:02:15 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Katie_Haritos-Shea, Jan_Richards, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Ben_Caldwell, Christophe_Strobbe, Bruce_Bailey, David_MacDonald, John_Slatin, Alex_Li, Roberto_Scano,

21:02:21 [Zakim]

... Cooper, Bengt_Farre, Cynthia_Shelly

21:02:43 [Zakim]

+Greg_Pisocky

21:03:06 [ben]

zakim, John_Slatin is Barry

21:03:06 [Zakim]

+Barry; got it

21:03:14 [Zakim]

+??P22

21:03:37 [ben]

zakim, ??P22 is Tim_Boland

21:03:37 [Zakim]

+Tim_Boland; got it

21:04:10 [Bruce]

ATAG 2 comments results: http://tinyurl.com/y6yb2v

21:05:54 [ben]

zakim, take up agendum 1

21:05:54 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Announcements, Questions, and Updates" taken up [from ben]

21:07:29 [ben]

scribe: David

21:08:00 [Zakim]

+[IBM]

21:08:19 [Andi]

Andi has joined #wai-wcag

21:08:23 [ben]

zakim, [IBM] is Andi_Snow-Weaver

21:08:23 [Zakim]

+Andi_Snow-Weaver; got it

21:08:33 [ben]

zakim, who is on the phone?

21:08:33 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Katie_Haritos-Shea, Jan_Richards, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Ben_Caldwell, Christophe_Strobbe, Bruce_Bailey, David_MacDonald, Barry, Alex_Li, Roberto_Scano (muted),

21:08:36 [Zakim]

... Cooper, Bengt_Farre, Cynthia_Shelly, Greg_Pisocky, Tim_Boland, Andi_Snow-Weaver

21:09:08 [ben]

zakim, close this item

21:09:08 [Zakim]

agendum 1 closed

21:09:09 [Zakim]

I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

21:09:11 [Zakim]

2. ATAG 2.0 Comments [from ben]

21:09:12 [ben]

zakim, take up agendum 2

21:09:12 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "ATAG 2.0 Comments" taken up [from ben]

21:09:27 [jslatin]

jslatin has joined #wai-wcag

21:10:22 [Zakim]

+John_Slatin

21:15:27 [Zakim]

+Treviranus

21:15:56 [David]

The WCAG group had some concern about ATAG citing specific techniques as benchmarks

21:16:21 [David]

s/specific/WCAG

21:17:07 [Greg]

Greg has joined #wai-wcag

21:17:28 [David]

One concern is that the WCAG techniques are not normative in WCAG and that making them normative in ATAG might cause confusion

21:22:18 [David]

The ATAG responds that these techniques are not normative per se, but the motiviation was to encourage the logevity of the Guidelines and allow for new technologies and authoring tools for those technologies. ATAG will take an action to remove the name WCAG techniques with no links and make it clear that they are not making them normative

21:23:58 [David]

Action: Jan Richards will to remove the WCAG techniques an links and make it clear that they are not making them normative but will encourage people to go to the WCAG guidelines

21:26:21 [David]

s/Richards/Richards will go back to ATAG

21:28:50 [David]

WCAG has concer that A.0.1 in ATAG is not promininent enough, hard to miss. Perhaps going to a "if.. then... statement"

21:34:18 [David]

Concern that there is no reference to UAAG, WCAG assumes that some of the UAAG issues are covered off... ATAG responds that they agree, lots of discussion about UAAG as a big part of the standard for making the AUthoring tool accessibile. WCAG is concerned that there was not much requirement to conform to UAAG. Jutta says that ATAG spent much time putting UAAG in and out and has concern...

21:34:20 [David]

...about rendering view verses editing view..

21:34:44 [David]

Loretta and Jan and Jutta will take this offline.

21:36:30 [David]

WCAG is not sure about the relation with Repair tools group and ATAG, Jan responds that they didn't want to bring in requirements that might be appriate for repair tools.

21:37:22 [David]

Recommend pointing to newest ATAG techniques

21:39:53 [Bruce]

41#

21:39:58 [Bruce]

#41

21:40:23 [Bruce]

q+

21:40:29 [David]

Katie congrats for the abstract, clear and concise. THe main concerned Part A and Part B priorities. Part A is interface Part B is content...: make some mention of what Part A and Part B is before you hit that part...

21:40:30 [MichaelC]

q+

21:40:36 [MichaelC]

ack k

21:43:07 [Zakim]

-Roberto_Scano

21:43:16 [Andi]

q+

21:43:24 [David]

Bruce wants clarify... PART A and Part B...both need to be satified to get ATAG compliance... Jutta says that there would be concern that Part A would not get enough attention if they divided out. THere was a resounding unanimous rejection of separating the 2 for that reason.

21:43:43 [MichaelC]

ack b

21:46:08 [Zakim]

-Bruce_Bailey

21:46:31 [Zakim]

+Bruce_Bailey

21:47:18 [David]

q+

21:50:47 [ben]

ack Michael

21:51:21 [David]

WCAG has suggestions for reordering to help those who are not "in the know"

21:52:21 [David]

know" about ATAG, just to make it more understandable... directs to WCAG comments.

21:52:46 [ben]

zakim, who is making noise?

21:52:53 [rscano_]

rscano_ has joined #wai-wcag

21:52:56 [David]

zakim, who's making noise?

21:52:59 [Zakim]

ben, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: Bruce_Bailey (16%), Andi_Snow-Weaver (28%)

21:53:10 [Zakim]

David, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: Treviranus (13%), Bruce_Bailey (44%), Andi_Snow-Weaver (40%)

21:53:13 [ben]

zakim, mute Bruce

21:53:13 [Zakim]

Bruce_Bailey should now be muted

21:57:16 [David]

Jutta said that they can create partial compliance statements that are simple and understandable.

21:57:29 [ben]

ack Anid

21:57:32 [ben]

ack Andi

21:57:34 [ben]

ack David

21:58:46 [ben]

ack Katie

22:00:22 [Bruce]

Who is talking?

22:00:27 [David]

Katie suggests adding a few other AT examples besides magnification and screen readers

22:00:36 [ben]

ack John

22:01:54 [ben]

ack Alex

22:12:22 [JR]

w3c-wai-au@w3.org

22:12:53 [David]

Jutta invites WCAG members to hold furthure discussions, and invites everyone submit comments for ATAG 2.0 to w3c-wai-au@w3.org today or tomorrow... Thanks to the ATAG team

22:12:55 [Zakim]

-Greg_Pisocky

22:12:57 [Zakim]

-Treviranus

22:12:58 [Zakim]

-Barry

22:13:00 [Zakim]

-Jan_Richards

22:13:01 [Greg]

Greg has left #wai-wcag

22:13:20 [ben]

zakim, close this item

22:13:20 [Zakim]

agendum 2 closed

22:13:21 [Zakim]

I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

22:13:22 [Zakim]

3. Team B Survey from 14 December (start with question #2 ) [from ben]

22:13:25 [ben]

zakim, take up agendum 3

22:13:25 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "Team B Survey from 14 December (start with question #2 )" taken up [from ben]

22:13:43 [David]

ATAG member present were Greg_Pisocky,-Treviranus-Barry-Jan_Richards

22:14:12 [ben]

http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/teamb14dec2006/results

22:14:35 [David]

Topic: Team B survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/teamb14dec2006/results

22:15:59 [MichaelC]

q+ to vote in favor of advisory technique approach

22:16:00 [David]

q+

22:17:37 [MichaelC]

q-

22:18:43 [Bruce]

zakim, unmute me

22:18:43 [Zakim]

Bruce_Bailey should no longer be muted

22:19:01 [Bruce]

q+

22:20:06 [Zakim]

-Andi_Snow-Weaver

22:20:07 [Zakim]

+ +1.512.423.aaaa

22:20:36 [ben]

zakim, +1.512.423.aaa is Cynthia_Shelly

22:20:36 [Zakim]

+Cynthia_Shelly; got it

22:23:37 [Zakim]

-Tim_Boland

22:24:32 [David]

q+

22:24:52 [David]

ack d

22:25:02 [David]

ack c

22:25:16 [David]

ack b

22:25:22 [David]

ack k

22:27:55 [David]

q+

22:28:03 [Bruce]

bruce q-

22:29:21 [David]

q-

22:29:37 [David]

ack c

22:30:24 [David]

q+

22:31:23 [David]

q-

22:32:06 [ben]

ack John

22:32:42 [ben]

ack Alex

22:34:34 [rscano]

rscano has joined #wai-wcag

22:35:58 [ben]

ack Bruce

22:41:23 [Loretta]

This should be indepenent of screen resolution.

22:43:27 [David]

Visually rendered text can be resized without assistive technology up to 200 per cent without loss of content or functionality in a way that does not require the user to scroll horizontally.

22:45:33 [David]

Resolution: add level 3 SC "Visually rendered text can be resized without assistive technology up to 200 per cent without loss of content or functionality in a way that does not require the user to scroll horizontally."

22:46:01 [ben]

s/per cent/percent

22:47:36 [David]

Resolution: accept 930 as amended

22:47:54 [David]

Topic: 974

22:48:50 [Christophe]

zakim, mute me

22:48:50 [Zakim]

Christophe_Strobbe should now be muted

22:50:46 [David]

Resolution: accept 974 as amended

22:52:51 [David]

Resolution: no change to 2.4.6 , the proposed rewording was rejected

22:53:02 [ben]

zakim, close this item

22:53:02 [Zakim]

I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, ben

22:53:06 [ben]

q?

22:53:10 [ben]

ack Alex

22:53:13 [ben]

zakim, close this item

22:53:13 [Zakim]

agendum 3 closed

22:53:15 [Zakim]

I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

22:53:16 [Zakim]

4. Action Item task force survey for 04 January [from ben]

22:53:35 [ben]

zakim, take up agendum 5

22:53:35 [Zakim]

agendum 5. "Team C survey for 04 January" taken up [from ben]

22:54:46 [David]

Topic: Team C Proposal to combine 1.3.1 and 1.3.4

23:00:08 [David]

Resolution: Accept the amended proposal to combine 1.3.1 and 1.3.4.

23:00:40 [David]

action: Team C repropose new response to 672 and remove the plain text technique for tables "presenting Tabular information in plain text"

23:03:33 [David]

q+

23:05:55 [David]

Resolution: accept failure Failure of 1.3.1 due to using changes in text presentation to convey information without using the appropriate markup.David will add an exampt that <p class="heading"> as failure

23:06:17 [Christophe]

zakim, unmute me

23:06:17 [Zakim]

Christophe_Strobbe should no longer be muted

23:06:27 [David]

s/exampt/example

23:07:25 [Zakim]

-Alex_Li

23:07:27 [Zakim]

-Katie_Haritos-Shea

23:07:27 [Zakim]

-Bengt_Farre

23:07:28 [Zakim]

-Christophe_Strobbe

23:07:29 [Zakim]

-John_Slatin

23:07:34 [ben]

Present: Katie_Haritos-Shea, Jan_Richards, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Ben_Caldwell, Christophe_Strobbe, Bruce_Bailey, David_MacDonald, Barry_Feigenbaum, Alex_Li, Roberto_Scano, Cooper, Bengt_Farre, Cynthia_Shelly, Greg_Pisocky, Tim_Boland, Andi_Snow-Weaver, John_Slatin, Jutta_Treviranus

23:07:59 [Zakim]

-Cooper

23:08:00 [Zakim]

-Ben_Caldwell

23:08:01 [Zakim]

-Loretta_Guarino_Reid

23:08:02 [Zakim]

-Bruce_Bailey

23:08:04 [Zakim]

-David_MacDonald

23:08:05 [Zakim]

-Cynthia_Shelly

23:08:11 [bengt]

bengt has left #wai-wcag

23:08:36 [Bruce]

Bruce has left #wai-wcag

23:12:05 [rscano]

rscano has left #wai-wcag

23:26:48 [ben]

RRSAgent, bye

23:26:48 [RRSAgent]

I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-wai-wcag-actions.rdf :

23:26:48 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Jan Richards will to remove the WCAG techniques an links and make it clear that they are not making them normative but will encourage people to go to the WCAG guidelines [1]

23:26:48 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-wai-wcag-irc#T21-23-58

23:26:48 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Team C repropose new response to 672 and remove the plain text technique for tables "presenting Tabular information in plain text" [2]

23:26:48 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-wai-wcag-irc#T23-00-40

23:26:50 [ben]

zakim, bye

23:26:50 [Zakim]

leaving. As of this point the attendees were Jan_Richards, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Ben_Caldwell, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Christophe_Strobbe, Bruce_Bailey, David_MacDonald, Alex_Li,

23:26:50 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #wai-wcag

23:26:54 [Zakim]

... Cooper, Roberto_Scano, Bengt_Farre, Cynthia_Shelly, Greg_Pisocky, Barry, Tim_Boland, Andi_Snow-Weaver, John_Slatin, Treviranus, +1.512.423.aaaa