20:34:23 RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag 20:34:23 logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-wai-wcag-irc 20:34:29 RRSAgent, do not start a new log 20:34:37 RRSAgent, make log world 20:34:44 Meeting: WCAG Weekly Telecon 20:34:58 zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG 20:34:58 ok, ben; I see WAI_WCAG()3:00PM scheduled to start 34 minutes ago 20:35:26 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2007JanMar/0007.html 20:35:43 Chair: Loretta_Guarino_Reid 20:35:53 ScribeOptions: -scribeOnly 20:36:50 Regrets: Gregg_Vanderheiden, Sean_Hayes, Becky_Gibson, Sofia_Celic, Roberto_Ellero 20:36:58 agenda+ Announcements, Questions, and Updates 20:37:10 agenda+ ATAG 2.0 Comments 20:37:37 agenda+ Team B Survey from 14 December (start with question #2 ) 20:37:48 agenda+ Action Item task force survey for 04 January 20:37:56 agenda+ Team C survey for 04 January 20:43:08 ATAG 2 comments results: http://tinyurl.com/y6yb2v 20:45:01 Jan is arriving.... 20:45:28 JR has joined #wai-wcag 20:47:31 Christophe has joined #wai-wcag 20:53:09 Regrets+ Don_Evans 20:56:42 WAI_WCAG()3:00PM has now started 20:56:49 +??P9 20:57:20 zakim clock seems a bit off 20:58:08 +Jan_Richards 20:58:12 -??P9 20:58:13 +??P9 20:58:47 +Loretta_Guarino_Reid 20:59:13 +??P11 20:59:18 zakim, ??P11 is Ben_Caldwell 20:59:18 +Ben_Caldwell; got it 20:59:30 zakim, who is on the phone? 20:59:30 On the phone I see ??P9, Jan_Richards, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Ben_Caldwell 20:59:58 David has joined #wai-wcag 20:59:59 zakim, ??P9 is Katie_Haritos-Shea 20:59:59 +Katie_Haritos-Shea; got it 21:00:10 +Christophe_Strobbe 21:00:16 +Bruce_Bailey 21:00:33 +David_MacDonald 21:00:36 +Barry 21:01:05 +Alex_Li 21:01:09 +??P13 21:01:22 +Cooper 21:01:27 zakim, ??P13 is Roberto_Scano 21:01:27 +Roberto_Scano; got it 21:01:30 +??P19 21:01:38 zakim, I am Roberto_Scano 21:01:38 ok, rscano, I now associate you with Roberto_Scano 21:01:39 zakim, ??P19 is Bengt_Farre 21:01:39 +Bengt_Farre; got it 21:01:41 zakim, Barry is John_Slatin 21:01:41 +John_Slatin; got it 21:01:45 +Cynthia_Shelly 21:02:15 zakim, who is on the phone? 21:02:15 On the phone I see Katie_Haritos-Shea, Jan_Richards, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Ben_Caldwell, Christophe_Strobbe, Bruce_Bailey, David_MacDonald, John_Slatin, Alex_Li, Roberto_Scano, 21:02:21 ... Cooper, Bengt_Farre, Cynthia_Shelly 21:02:43 +Greg_Pisocky 21:03:06 zakim, John_Slatin is Barry 21:03:06 +Barry; got it 21:03:14 +??P22 21:03:37 zakim, ??P22 is Tim_Boland 21:03:37 +Tim_Boland; got it 21:04:10 ATAG 2 comments results: http://tinyurl.com/y6yb2v 21:05:54 zakim, take up agendum 1 21:05:54 agendum 1. "Announcements, Questions, and Updates" taken up [from ben] 21:07:29 scribe: David 21:08:00 +[IBM] 21:08:19 Andi has joined #wai-wcag 21:08:23 zakim, [IBM] is Andi_Snow-Weaver 21:08:23 +Andi_Snow-Weaver; got it 21:08:33 zakim, who is on the phone? 21:08:33 On the phone I see Katie_Haritos-Shea, Jan_Richards, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Ben_Caldwell, Christophe_Strobbe, Bruce_Bailey, David_MacDonald, Barry, Alex_Li, Roberto_Scano (muted), 21:08:36 ... Cooper, Bengt_Farre, Cynthia_Shelly, Greg_Pisocky, Tim_Boland, Andi_Snow-Weaver 21:09:08 zakim, close this item 21:09:08 agendum 1 closed 21:09:09 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 21:09:11 2. ATAG 2.0 Comments [from ben] 21:09:12 zakim, take up agendum 2 21:09:12 agendum 2. "ATAG 2.0 Comments" taken up [from ben] 21:09:27 jslatin has joined #wai-wcag 21:10:22 +John_Slatin 21:15:27 +Treviranus 21:15:56 The WCAG group had some concern about ATAG citing specific techniques as benchmarks 21:16:21 s/specific/WCAG 21:17:07 Greg has joined #wai-wcag 21:17:28 One concern is that the WCAG techniques are not normative in WCAG and that making them normative in ATAG might cause confusion 21:22:18 The ATAG responds that these techniques are not normative per se, but the motiviation was to encourage the logevity of the Guidelines and allow for new technologies and authoring tools for those technologies. ATAG will take an action to remove the name WCAG techniques with no links and make it clear that they are not making them normative 21:23:58 Action: Jan Richards will to remove the WCAG techniques an links and make it clear that they are not making them normative but will encourage people to go to the WCAG guidelines 21:26:21 s/Richards/Richards will go back to ATAG 21:28:50 WCAG has concer that A.0.1 in ATAG is not promininent enough, hard to miss. Perhaps going to a "if.. then... statement" 21:34:18 Concern that there is no reference to UAAG, WCAG assumes that some of the UAAG issues are covered off... ATAG responds that they agree, lots of discussion about UAAG as a big part of the standard for making the AUthoring tool accessibile. WCAG is concerned that there was not much requirement to conform to UAAG. Jutta says that ATAG spent much time putting UAAG in and out and has concern... 21:34:20 ...about rendering view verses editing view.. 21:34:44 Loretta and Jan and Jutta will take this offline. 21:36:30 WCAG is not sure about the relation with Repair tools group and ATAG, Jan responds that they didn't want to bring in requirements that might be appriate for repair tools. 21:37:22 Recommend pointing to newest ATAG techniques 21:39:53 41# 21:39:58 #41 21:40:23 q+ 21:40:29 Katie congrats for the abstract, clear and concise. THe main concerned Part A and Part B priorities. Part A is interface Part B is content...: make some mention of what Part A and Part B is before you hit that part... 21:40:30 q+ 21:40:36 ack k 21:43:07 -Roberto_Scano 21:43:16 q+ 21:43:24 Bruce wants clarify... PART A and Part B...both need to be satified to get ATAG compliance... Jutta says that there would be concern that Part A would not get enough attention if they divided out. THere was a resounding unanimous rejection of separating the 2 for that reason. 21:43:43 ack b 21:46:08 -Bruce_Bailey 21:46:31 +Bruce_Bailey 21:47:18 q+ 21:50:47 ack Michael 21:51:21 WCAG has suggestions for reordering to help those who are not "in the know" 21:52:21 know" about ATAG, just to make it more understandable... directs to WCAG comments. 21:52:46 zakim, who is making noise? 21:52:53 rscano_ has joined #wai-wcag 21:52:56 zakim, who's making noise? 21:52:59 ben, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: Bruce_Bailey (16%), Andi_Snow-Weaver (28%) 21:53:10 David, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: Treviranus (13%), Bruce_Bailey (44%), Andi_Snow-Weaver (40%) 21:53:13 zakim, mute Bruce 21:53:13 Bruce_Bailey should now be muted 21:57:16 Jutta said that they can create partial compliance statements that are simple and understandable. 21:57:29 ack Anid 21:57:32 ack Andi 21:57:34 ack David 21:58:46 ack Katie 22:00:22 Who is talking? 22:00:27 Katie suggests adding a few other AT examples besides magnification and screen readers 22:00:36 ack John 22:01:54 ack Alex 22:12:22 w3c-wai-au@w3.org 22:12:53 Jutta invites WCAG members to hold furthure discussions, and invites everyone submit comments for ATAG 2.0 to w3c-wai-au@w3.org today or tomorrow... Thanks to the ATAG team 22:12:55 -Greg_Pisocky 22:12:57 -Treviranus 22:12:58 -Barry 22:13:00 -Jan_Richards 22:13:01 Greg has left #wai-wcag 22:13:20 zakim, close this item 22:13:20 agendum 2 closed 22:13:21 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 22:13:22 3. Team B Survey from 14 December (start with question #2 ) [from ben] 22:13:25 zakim, take up agendum 3 22:13:25 agendum 3. "Team B Survey from 14 December (start with question #2 )" taken up [from ben] 22:13:43 ATAG member present were Greg_Pisocky , -Treviranus -Barry -Jan_Richards 22:14:12 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/teamb14dec2006/results 22:14:35 Topic: Team B survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/teamb14dec2006/results 22:15:59 q+ to vote in favor of advisory technique approach 22:16:00 q+ 22:17:37 q- 22:18:43 zakim, unmute me 22:18:43 Bruce_Bailey should no longer be muted 22:19:01 q+ 22:20:06 -Andi_Snow-Weaver 22:20:07 + +1.512.423.aaaa 22:20:36 zakim, +1.512.423.aaa is Cynthia_Shelly 22:20:36 +Cynthia_Shelly; got it 22:23:37 -Tim_Boland 22:24:32 q+ 22:24:52 ack d 22:25:02 ack c 22:25:16 ack b 22:25:22 ack k 22:27:55 q+ 22:28:03 bruce q- 22:29:21 q- 22:29:37 ack c 22:30:24 q+ 22:31:23 q- 22:32:06 ack John 22:32:42 ack Alex 22:34:34 rscano has joined #wai-wcag 22:35:58 ack Bruce 22:41:23 This should be indepenent of screen resolution. 22:43:27 Visually rendered text can be resized without assistive technology up to 200 per cent without loss of content or functionality in a way that does not require the user to scroll horizontally. 22:45:33 Resolution: add level 3 SC "Visually rendered text can be resized without assistive technology up to 200 per cent without loss of content or functionality in a way that does not require the user to scroll horizontally." 22:46:01 s/per cent/percent 22:47:36 Resolution: accept 930 as amended 22:47:54 Topic: 974 22:48:50 zakim, mute me 22:48:50 Christophe_Strobbe should now be muted 22:50:46 Resolution: accept 974 as amended 22:52:51 Resolution: no change to 2.4.6 , the proposed rewording was rejected 22:53:02 zakim, close this item 22:53:02 I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, ben 22:53:06 q? 22:53:10 ack Alex 22:53:13 zakim, close this item 22:53:13 agendum 3 closed 22:53:15 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 22:53:16 4. Action Item task force survey for 04 January [from ben] 22:53:35 zakim, take up agendum 5 22:53:35 agendum 5. "Team C survey for 04 January" taken up [from ben] 22:54:46 Topic: Team C Proposal to combine 1.3.1 and 1.3.4 23:00:08 Resolution: Accept the amended proposal to combine 1.3.1 and 1.3.4. 23:00:40 action: Team C repropose new response to 672 and remove the plain text technique for tables "presenting Tabular information in plain text" 23:03:33 q+ 23:05:55 Resolution: accept failure Failure of 1.3.1 due to using changes in text presentation to convey information without using the appropriate markup.David will add an exampt that

as failure 23:06:17 zakim, unmute me 23:06:17 Christophe_Strobbe should no longer be muted 23:06:27 s/exampt/example 23:07:25 -Alex_Li 23:07:27 -Katie_Haritos-Shea 23:07:27 -Bengt_Farre 23:07:28 -Christophe_Strobbe 23:07:29 -John_Slatin 23:07:34 Present: Katie_Haritos-Shea, Jan_Richards, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Ben_Caldwell, Christophe_Strobbe, Bruce_Bailey, David_MacDonald, Barry_Feigenbaum, Alex_Li, Roberto_Scano, Cooper, Bengt_Farre, Cynthia_Shelly, Greg_Pisocky, Tim_Boland, Andi_Snow-Weaver, John_Slatin, Jutta_Treviranus 23:07:59 -Cooper 23:08:00 -Ben_Caldwell 23:08:01 -Loretta_Guarino_Reid 23:08:02 -Bruce_Bailey 23:08:04 -David_MacDonald 23:08:05 -Cynthia_Shelly 23:08:11 bengt has left #wai-wcag 23:08:36 Bruce has left #wai-wcag 23:12:05 rscano has left #wai-wcag 23:26:48 RRSAgent, bye 23:26:48 I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-wai-wcag-actions.rdf : 23:26:48 ACTION: Jan Richards will to remove the WCAG techniques an links and make it clear that they are not making them normative but will encourage people to go to the WCAG guidelines [1] 23:26:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-wai-wcag-irc#T21-23-58 23:26:48 ACTION: Team C repropose new response to 672 and remove the plain text technique for tables "presenting Tabular information in plain text" [2] 23:26:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-wai-wcag-irc#T23-00-40 23:26:50 zakim, bye 23:26:50 leaving. As of this point the attendees were Jan_Richards, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Ben_Caldwell, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Christophe_Strobbe, Bruce_Bailey, David_MacDonald, Alex_Li, 23:26:50 Zakim has left #wai-wcag 23:26:54 ... Cooper, Roberto_Scano, Bengt_Farre, Cynthia_Shelly, Greg_Pisocky, Barry, Tim_Boland, Andi_Snow-Weaver, John_Slatin, Treviranus, +1.512.423.aaaa