IRC log of ws-desc on 2007-01-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:56:50 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ws-desc
14:56:50 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/01/04-ws-desc-irc
14:56:56 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #ws-desc
14:57:00 [Jonathan]
Zakim, list conferences
14:57:00 [Zakim]
I see no active conferences
14:57:03 [Zakim]
scheduled at this time are DI_DIWG(dpf)10:00AM, WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM, Team_Global(review)8:00AM, VB_VBWG()10:00AM, Math_IG()10:00AM, MWI_BPWG()10:00AM
14:57:11 [TonyR]
zakim, this will be wsdl
14:57:11 [Zakim]
ok, TonyR; I see WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
14:57:13 [Jonathan]
Zakim, this will be WSDL
14:57:13 [Zakim]
ok, Jonathan; I see WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
15:02:55 [Zakim]
WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM has now started
15:02:56 [Zakim]
+Arthur_Ryman
15:03:07 [Jonathan]
zakim, code?
15:03:07 [Zakim]
the conference code is 9735 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Jonathan
15:03:16 [Zakim]
+Jonathan_Marsh
15:03:17 [Zakim]
-Jonathan_Marsh
15:03:18 [Zakim]
+Jonathan_Marsh
15:03:24 [Arthur]
Arthur has joined #ws-desc
15:04:50 [hughesj]
hughesj has joined #ws-desc
15:05:08 [Zakim]
+??P12
15:05:19 [TonyR]
zakim, ??p12 is me
15:05:19 [Zakim]
+TonyR; got it
15:05:33 [Zakim]
+[IBMUK]
15:07:41 [Jonathan]
Zakim, IBMUK is hughesj
15:07:41 [Zakim]
+hughesj; got it
15:17:55 [Jonathan]
ACTION: Jonathan to make sure parameters are added to the URI in the HTTP binding even when no whttp:location appears.
15:20:03 [plh]
plh has joined #ws-desc
15:20:10 [Zakim]
+Plh
15:37:56 [Zakim]
+Canon
15:39:28 [Zakim]
+Roland_Merrick
15:40:26 [jkaputin]
jkaputin has joined #ws-desc
15:41:14 [youenn]
youenn has joined #ws-desc
15:42:26 [pauld]
pauld has joined #ws-desc
15:46:25 [alewis]
alewis has joined #ws-desc
15:51:37 [plh]
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/test-suite/logging-messages/index.html
15:52:10 [Arthur]
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/test-suite/logging-messages/index.html
15:59:09 [gpilz]
gpilz has joined #ws-desc
15:59:18 [plh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2006Nov/0045.html
15:59:55 [Jonathan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2006Dec/att-0059/20061214-ws-desc-minutes.html#action04
16:00:56 [Zakim]
-Canon
16:00:58 [Zakim]
-Roland_Merrick
16:01:01 [Zakim]
-Arthur_Ryman
16:01:03 [Zakim]
-Plh
16:01:04 [Zakim]
-Jonathan_Marsh
16:01:10 [Zakim]
-TonyR
16:01:14 [plh]
zakim, list conferences
16:01:14 [Zakim]
I see Math_IG()10:00AM, VB_VBWG()10:00AM, GA_WebCGM()11:00AM, XML_PMWG()11:00AM, WAI_Team()10:45AM, WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM, MWI_BPWG()10:00AM, WS_DescWG()11:00AM active
16:01:18 [Zakim]
also scheduled at this time are I18N_Core_WG(WS-I18N)11:00AM, SW_HCLS()11:00AM, DIG_TAMI()11:00AM
16:01:20 [Zakim]
-hughesj
16:01:21 [Zakim]
WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM has ended
16:01:22 [monica]
monica has joined #ws-desc
16:01:23 [Zakim]
Attendees were Arthur_Ryman, Jonathan_Marsh, TonyR, hughesj, Plh, Canon, Roland_Merrick
16:01:26 [Jonathan]
zakim, this will be WS_DescWG
16:01:26 [Zakim]
ok, Jonathan, I see WS_DescWG()11:00AM already started
16:01:40 [Zakim]
+Plh
16:01:49 [Zakim]
+Gilbert_Pilz
16:01:53 [Allen]
Allen has joined #ws-desc
16:01:55 [Zakim]
+Jonathan_Marsh
16:02:04 [Jonathan]
zakim, who's on the phone?
16:02:04 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P20, Plh, Gilbert_Pilz, Jonathan_Marsh
16:02:08 [Zakim]
+??P21
16:02:10 [Roberto]
Roberto has joined #ws-desc
16:02:16 [Allen]
zakim, ??P20 is Allen
16:02:16 [Zakim]
+Allen; got it
16:02:20 [TonyR]
zakim, ??p21 is me
16:02:20 [Zakim]
+TonyR; got it
16:02:46 [Zakim]
+Roberto
16:02:58 [asir]
asir has joined #ws-desc
16:03:39 [Zakim]
+ +1.425.216.aaaa
16:04:27 [Zakim]
+Arthur_Ryman
16:04:43 [Zakim]
+Charlton_Barreto
16:04:58 [Zakim]
+Paul_Downey
16:05:45 [hughesj]
hughesj has left #ws-desc
16:05:54 [Roberto]
Scribe: Roberto
16:06:06 [Jonathan]
Meeting: WS Description WG telcon
16:06:11 [Jonathan]
Chair: Jonathan
16:06:12 [Zakim]
+m2
16:06:32 [Roberto]
Topic: Approval of minutes
16:06:41 [Roberto]
Minutes approved
16:06:48 [Roberto]
Topic: Action items
16:07:05 [Zakim]
+Tom_Jordahl
16:07:26 [TomJ]
TomJ has joined #ws-desc
16:08:01 [Roberto]
Topic: Administrivia
16:08:37 [Roberto]
Jonathan: WG extended six months
16:09:20 [Roberto]
... from the implementor's call, there was no progress on the logging issue
16:09:55 [Roberto]
... no visible progress on dashboard
16:10:16 [Roberto]
... it will take ~2 wks to fix the logging issues and get testing done between WSO2 and Canon
16:10:43 [Roberto]
... 19 issues still open
16:11:08 [Roberto]
... at the pace we're at, it should take ~ 3wks to get the issue count to zero
16:11:21 [Roberto]
for PR we also need to update the documents
16:11:33 [Roberto]
Jonathan: for PR we also need to update the documents
16:11:53 [Roberto]
... still a few resolutions not incorporated
16:12:16 [Roberto]
... another area: validator progress
16:12:25 [Roberto]
... we got coverage of 50% of the assertions
16:12:52 [Roberto]
... it shouldn't block us from moving forward to PR
16:13:39 [Roberto]
... it could take a month to increase coverage
16:13:53 [Zakim]
+ +1.919.742.aabb
16:13:55 [Zakim]
- +1.919.742.aabb
16:14:25 [Roberto]
Arthur: do we have dates for these events?
16:14:35 [Roberto]
Jonathan: no, extrapolating from current pace
16:14:42 [Roberto]
Arthur: would like to see a schedule
16:14:47 [Zakim]
+ +1.919.742.aacc
16:15:40 [Zakim]
+ +329987aadd
16:15:44 [Roberto]
Jonathan: would like to set up a time to test each other's endpoints in the week of Jan 21st
16:16:34 [Roberto]
Jonathan: looking for a 4-6 hour time window
16:18:42 [Roberto]
... if we can do that by the end of January, it's going to take about 2 weeks to get to the Director's call
16:18:51 [youenn]
zakim, aadd is Canon
16:18:52 [Zakim]
+Canon; got it
16:19:10 [Roberto]
... it would go to the AC in two weeks, then the AC gets 4 weeks
16:19:41 [Roberto]
... so ~10 weeks from the hand-off to REC
16:20:15 [Roberto]
... so we are looking for Recommendation at the end of April
16:20:53 [Roberto]
Jonathan: may need to add a few weeks to address any issues, rewrite test cases, etc.
16:21:18 [Roberto]
... e.g. issues with gzip transfer coding
16:25:55 [Roberto]
Jonathan: would like to send LC comments through the working group
16:26:46 [Roberto]
... only substantial comment is (4) in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2007Jan/0011.html
16:31:33 [Roberto]
Jonathan: does anyone else plan on reading the document and send comments? deadline is next Friday
16:32:07 [Roberto]
Paul: people can comment outside of the WG too
16:32:27 [Roberto]
Jonathan: my comments were not WSDL specific, really
16:33:22 [Roberto]
Jonathan: in WSDL we make special provisions for multiple inline schemas
16:33:59 [Roberto]
... would like such a schema not to be flagged as violating any patterns
16:35:18 [Roberto]
ACTION: Paul to report back on which test cases in the WSDL test suite fail the basic patterns, with suggestions on how to address the issues
16:35:49 [Roberto]
Jonathan: Policy last call comments by Charlton
16:36:13 [Roberto]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2006Dec/0055.html
16:38:02 [Roberto]
Charlton: main issues are policy intersection and security considerations
16:38:53 [Roberto]
... also "policy expression (4)" is not editorial
16:40:13 [Roberto]
Asir: how many comments are WSDL-related?
16:40:17 [Roberto]
Charlton: 3
16:41:22 [Roberto]
... "XML Element Attachment" (a note), already filed issues for two other ones
16:44:31 [Roberto]
Jonathan: potential issue in the item under "Policy Expression (4)"
16:45:08 [Roberto]
Charlton: theoretical interest in defining an abstract policy for improved sharing
16:45:18 [Roberto]
... analogy with interface/class relationship
16:45:50 [Roberto]
Asir: policy doesn't deal with assertions
16:45:55 [Roberto]
Charlton: placeholders for assertions
16:45:59 [monica]
q+
16:46:34 [Roberto]
Charlton: offers to write up some examples
16:46:41 [Jonathan]
ack monica
16:47:18 [Roberto]
Monica: idea from BPEL TC; it's a template with placeholders
16:48:11 [Roberto]
Jonathan: it looks like a general policy issue, not a policy one
16:50:16 [Roberto]
Jonathan: any other substantial issues we can look at today?
16:50:20 [Roberto]
Charlton: no
16:51:13 [Roberto]
ACTION: Charlton to come up with a list of editorial comments and WSDL substantive issues
16:51:39 [Roberto]
Philippe: it's still useful to let them know that there is interest from the group in an issue
16:51:51 [monica]
+1
16:52:58 [Roberto]
Topic: MTOM description
16:53:03 [Roberto]
Jonathan: any news?
16:53:09 [asir]
Jonathan, I am signing off
16:53:18 [Roberto]
Philippe: XMLP WG meets on Wednesdays
16:53:29 [Roberto]
Jonathan: postpone the issue till next week
16:53:36 [Zakim]
-asir
16:53:42 [Roberto]
Topic: CR117
16:55:07 [Roberto]
Youenn: issue with special characters in parameters
16:55:16 [Roberto]
... hard to parse the URI in that case
16:56:05 [Roberto]
... possible solution escape these characters or just urlencode all parameters
16:56:22 [Roberto]
s/parameters/parameter values/
16:57:00 [Arthur]
q+
16:57:30 [Roberto]
Philippe: currently we don't do any escaping
16:57:39 [Roberto]
... last time we discussed this, we decided not to do anything about it
16:57:50 [Roberto]
Jonathan: is it a duplicate issue?
16:58:01 [Roberto]
Philippe: duplicate of CR053
16:58:16 [plh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2006Jul/att-0001/20060629-ws-desc-minutes.html#item06
17:01:11 [Roberto]
Philippe: url escaping happens at the transport layer
17:01:31 [Jonathan]
ack arthur
17:02:12 [Roberto]
Arthur: you can prevent "/"s by defining your own type
17:02:16 [Roberto]
Jonathan: or use NMToken
17:03:10 [Roberto]
Arthur: even if you encode a slash, when the URL is decoded how do you reconstruct the parameter values?
17:03:19 [Roberto]
... we'd have to define a particular escaping
17:03:59 [Roberto]
Jonathan: unclear when to encode things, except to prevent illegal characters
17:04:16 [Roberto]
Arthur: encoding won't by itself fix the problem
17:06:32 [Roberto]
Arthur: are we going to have a primer example of constraining the schema type?
17:07:47 [Roberto]
Jonathan: # could make the URL invalid too
17:08:05 [Roberto]
... 2 #s seem to be invalid
17:08:12 [Zakim]
-Charlton_Barreto
17:09:08 [Roberto]
Tony: are there any security issues?
17:09:26 [plh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2006Sep/0034
17:09:35 [Roberto]
Philippe: nothing beyond what the URL spec already handles
17:09:37 [plh]
"No percent-encoding mechanism, as
17:09:37 [plh]
defined in section 2.1 of RFC 3986, is performed on the replacement
17:09:37 [plh]
value. "
17:10:17 [pauld]
notes this is a common issue, Microsoft Outlook Webmail constructs URIs from the subject line, which generates URIs you can't dereference with mails sent with '+' and '&' in the title
17:11:12 [Roberto]
Jonathan: restricting schema types is a partial solution, won't work well for book titles with whitespaces
17:11:24 [Roberto]
Philippe: whitespaces will get encoded on the wire
17:11:59 [Roberto]
... but there can be information loss
17:12:20 [Zakim]
+Charlton_Barreto
17:13:11 [charlton]
charlton has joined #ws-desc
17:13:32 [Roberto]
Jonathan: don't want to force users to encode data themselves
17:15:06 [Roberto]
... should we mandate or allow an escaping mechanism? what about precluding slashes (which we won't be escaped in any case)?
17:15:30 [Roberto]
Arthur: no need to exclude anything, it can be done via a schema type
17:15:47 [Roberto]
Jonathan: "The%20Bible" in user data would be bad
17:16:19 [Roberto]
Arthur: distinction between what's legal in an URI and how URIs are transported
17:16:47 [Roberto]
Jonathan: xs:anyURI allows more characters than the URL spec does
17:17:21 [Roberto]
Arthur: even in ASCII, to parse a URL you have to know about the special characters
17:17:58 [charltonb]
charltonb has joined #ws-desc
17:18:05 [Roberto]
Jonathan: are spaces even an issue?
17:18:12 [Roberto]
Arthur: some research needed
17:18:50 [Roberto]
Jonathan: with slash, couldn't I have a full URI in the data and the template contain just one parameter?
17:19:31 [Roberto]
... http:location="{foo}"
17:20:22 [plh]
[[ As a consequence, if
17:20:22 [plh]
this IRI is an absolute IRI, the {address} property of the Endpoint
17:20:22 [plh]
component is ignored. ]]
17:21:28 [Roberto]
Jonathan: need to clarify if the absolutization of the URI precedes or follows parameter substitution
17:21:58 [Roberto]
... the results can be different in the two cases (e.g. with .. in the parameter value)
17:22:12 [Roberto]
Jonathan: multiple issues
17:22:29 [Roberto]
... if we allow slash characters, the resulting URLs may be ambiguous
17:22:55 [Roberto]
... preference is not to outlaw this case
17:24:48 [Roberto]
Arthur: we could require the serialization from XML to URI to be invertible
17:25:01 [Roberto]
Jonathan: don't want to mandate that
17:25:10 [Roberto]
... e.g. the case of existing services which I'd like to describe
17:27:28 [Roberto]
... it's the use cases of WSDL as a general HTTP description language
17:27:43 [Roberto]
Arthur: we could define a more constrained URI style
17:28:45 [Roberto]
q+
17:29:06 [Roberto]
Arthur: leave the URI style as-is and defined a new style which guarantees invertibility
17:29:12 [Roberto]
s/defined/define/
17:30:12 [Roberto]
Jonathan: it seems hard to define such a style in general terms
17:30:53 [Roberto]
Arthur: we can do it in a fairly direct (but constraining) way
17:31:13 [Roberto]
Youenn: it may be too complex
17:32:50 [Zakim]
-alewis
17:32:56 [Zakim]
-TonyR
17:33:06 [TonyR]
TonyR has left #ws-desc
17:33:32 [alewis]
alewis has left #ws-desc
17:33:54 [Zakim]
-Tom_Jordahl
17:34:26 [Roberto]
ACTION: Jonathan to analyze CR117 further
17:34:28 [Roberto]
q-
17:34:41 [Zakim]
-Roberto
17:34:42 [Zakim]
-Allen
17:34:43 [Zakim]
-Paul_Downey
17:34:44 [Zakim]
-Jonathan_Marsh
17:34:45 [Zakim]
-m2
17:34:46 [Zakim]
-Canon
17:34:48 [Zakim]
-Plh
17:34:49 [Zakim]
-Arthur_Ryman
17:34:51 [Jonathan]
rrsagent, set log world
17:35:01 [Zakim]
-Gilbert_Pilz
17:35:07 [Jonathan]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:35:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/01/04-ws-desc-minutes.html Jonathan
17:40:02 [Zakim]
disconnecting the lone participant, Charlton_Barreto, in WS_DescWG()11:00AM
17:40:07 [Zakim]
WS_DescWG()11:00AM has ended
17:40:08 [Zakim]
Attendees were Plh, Gilbert_Pilz, Jonathan_Marsh, Allen, TonyR, Roberto, +1.425.216.aaaa, asir, Arthur_Ryman, Charlton_Barreto, Paul_Downey, m2, Tom_Jordahl, +1.919.742.aabb,
17:40:11 [Zakim]
... +1.919.742.aacc, alewis, +329987aadd, Canon
18:04:39 [Jonathan]
RRSAgent, bye
18:04:39 [RRSAgent]
I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/04-ws-desc-actions.rdf :
18:04:39 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jonathan to make sure parameters are added to the URI in the HTTP binding even when no whttp:location appears. [1]
18:04:39 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/04-ws-desc-irc#T15-17-55
18:04:39 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Paul to report back on which test cases in the WSDL test suite fail the basic patterns, with suggestions on how to address the issues [2]
18:04:39 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/04-ws-desc-irc#T16-35-18
18:04:39 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Charlton to come up with a list of editorial comments and WSDL substantive issues [3]
18:04:39 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/04-ws-desc-irc#T16-51-13
18:04:39 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jonathan to analyze CR117 further [4]
18:04:39 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/04-ws-desc-irc#T17-34-26
18:04:42 [Jonathan]
Zakim, bye
18:04:42 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ws-desc