14:56:50 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ws-desc
14:56:50 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/01/04-ws-desc-irc
14:56:56 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ws-desc
14:57:00 <Jonathan> Zakim, list conferences
14:57:00 <Zakim> I see no active conferences
14:57:03 <Zakim> scheduled at this time are DI_DIWG(dpf)10:00AM, WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM, Team_Global(review)8:00AM, VB_VBWG()10:00AM, Math_IG()10:00AM, MWI_BPWG()10:00AM
14:57:11 <TonyR> zakim, this will be wsdl
14:57:11 <Zakim> ok, TonyR; I see WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
14:57:13 <Jonathan> Zakim, this will be WSDL
14:57:13 <Zakim> ok, Jonathan; I see WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
15:02:55 <Zakim> WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM has now started
15:02:56 <Zakim> +Arthur_Ryman
15:03:07 <Jonathan> zakim, code?
15:03:07 <Zakim> the conference code is 9735 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Jonathan
15:03:16 <Zakim> +Jonathan_Marsh
15:03:17 <Zakim> -Jonathan_Marsh
15:03:18 <Zakim> +Jonathan_Marsh
15:03:24 <Arthur> Arthur has joined #ws-desc
15:04:50 <hughesj> hughesj has joined #ws-desc
15:05:08 <Zakim> +??P12
15:05:19 <TonyR> zakim, ??p12 is me
15:05:19 <Zakim> +TonyR; got it
15:05:33 <Zakim> +[IBMUK]
15:07:41 <Jonathan> Zakim, IBMUK is hughesj
15:07:41 <Zakim> +hughesj; got it
15:17:55 <Jonathan> ACTION: Jonathan to make sure parameters are added to the URI in the HTTP binding even when no whttp:location appears.
15:20:03 <plh> plh has joined #ws-desc
15:20:10 <Zakim> +Plh
15:37:56 <Zakim> +Canon
15:39:28 <Zakim> +Roland_Merrick
15:40:26 <jkaputin> jkaputin has joined #ws-desc
15:41:14 <youenn> youenn has joined #ws-desc
15:42:26 <pauld> pauld has joined #ws-desc
15:46:25 <alewis> alewis has joined #ws-desc
15:51:37 <plh> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/test-suite/logging-messages/index.html
15:52:10 <Arthur> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/test-suite/logging-messages/index.html
15:59:09 <gpilz> gpilz has joined #ws-desc
15:59:18 <plh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2006Nov/0045.html
15:59:55 <Jonathan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2006Dec/att-0059/20061214-ws-desc-minutes.html#action04
16:00:56 <Zakim> -Canon
16:00:58 <Zakim> -Roland_Merrick
16:01:01 <Zakim> -Arthur_Ryman
16:01:03 <Zakim> -Plh
16:01:04 <Zakim> -Jonathan_Marsh
16:01:10 <Zakim> -TonyR
16:01:14 <plh> zakim, list conferences
16:01:14 <Zakim> I see Math_IG()10:00AM, VB_VBWG()10:00AM, GA_WebCGM()11:00AM, XML_PMWG()11:00AM, WAI_Team()10:45AM, WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM, MWI_BPWG()10:00AM, WS_DescWG()11:00AM active
16:01:18 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time are I18N_Core_WG(WS-I18N)11:00AM, SW_HCLS()11:00AM, DIG_TAMI()11:00AM
16:01:20 <Zakim> -hughesj
16:01:21 <Zakim> WS_DescWG(WSDL)10:00AM has ended
16:01:22 <monica> monica has joined #ws-desc
16:01:23 <Zakim> Attendees were Arthur_Ryman, Jonathan_Marsh, TonyR, hughesj, Plh, Canon, Roland_Merrick
16:01:26 <Jonathan> zakim, this will be WS_DescWG
16:01:26 <Zakim> ok, Jonathan, I see WS_DescWG()11:00AM already started
16:01:40 <Zakim> +Plh
16:01:49 <Zakim> +Gilbert_Pilz
16:01:53 <Allen> Allen has joined #ws-desc
16:01:55 <Zakim> +Jonathan_Marsh
16:02:04 <Jonathan> zakim, who's on the phone?
16:02:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P20, Plh, Gilbert_Pilz, Jonathan_Marsh
16:02:08 <Zakim> +??P21
16:02:10 <Roberto> Roberto has joined #ws-desc
16:02:16 <Allen> zakim, ??P20 is Allen
16:02:16 <Zakim> +Allen; got it
16:02:20 <TonyR> zakim, ??p21 is me
16:02:20 <Zakim> +TonyR; got it
16:02:46 <Zakim> +Roberto
16:02:58 <asir> asir has joined #ws-desc
16:03:39 <Zakim> + +1.425.216.aaaa
16:04:27 <Zakim> +Arthur_Ryman
16:04:43 <Zakim> +Charlton_Barreto
16:04:58 <Zakim> +Paul_Downey
16:05:45 <hughesj> hughesj has left #ws-desc
16:05:54 <Roberto> Scribe: Roberto
16:06:06 <Jonathan> Meeting: WS Description WG telcon
16:06:11 <Jonathan> Chair: Jonathan
16:06:12 <Zakim> +m2
16:06:32 <Roberto> Topic: Approval of minutes
16:06:41 <Roberto> Minutes approved
16:06:48 <Roberto> Topic: Action items
16:07:05 <Zakim> +Tom_Jordahl
16:07:26 <TomJ> TomJ has joined #ws-desc
16:08:01 <Roberto> Topic: Administrivia
16:08:37 <Roberto> Jonathan: WG extended six months
16:09:20 <Roberto> ... from the implementor's call, there was no progress on the logging issue
16:09:55 <Roberto> ... no visible progress on dashboard
16:10:16 <Roberto> ... it will take ~2 wks to fix the logging issues and get testing done between WSO2 and Canon
16:10:43 <Roberto> ... 19 issues still open
16:11:08 <Roberto> ... at the pace we're at, it should take ~ 3wks to get the issue count to zero
16:11:21 <Roberto> for PR we also need to update the documents
16:11:33 <Roberto> Jonathan: for PR we also need to update the documents
16:11:53 <Roberto> ... still a few resolutions not incorporated
16:12:16 <Roberto> ... another area: validator progress
16:12:25 <Roberto> ... we got coverage of 50% of the assertions
16:12:52 <Roberto> ... it shouldn't block us from moving forward to PR
16:13:39 <Roberto> ... it could take a month to increase coverage
16:13:53 <Zakim> + +1.919.742.aabb
16:13:55 <Zakim> - +1.919.742.aabb
16:14:25 <Roberto> Arthur: do we have dates for these events?
16:14:35 <Roberto> Jonathan: no, extrapolating from current pace
16:14:42 <Roberto> Arthur: would like to see a schedule
16:14:47 <Zakim> + +1.919.742.aacc
16:15:40 <Zakim> + +329987aadd
16:15:44 <Roberto> Jonathan: would like to set up a time to test each other's endpoints in the week of Jan 21st 
16:16:34 <Roberto> Jonathan: looking for a 4-6 hour time window
16:18:42 <Roberto> ... if we can do that by the end of January, it's going to take about 2 weeks to get to the Director's call
16:18:51 <youenn> zakim, aadd is Canon
16:18:52 <Zakim> +Canon; got it
16:19:10 <Roberto> ... it would go to the AC in two weeks, then the AC gets 4 weeks
16:19:41 <Roberto> ... so ~10 weeks from the hand-off to REC
16:20:15 <Roberto> ... so we are looking for Recommendation at the end of April
16:20:53 <Roberto> Jonathan: may need to add a few weeks to address any issues, rewrite test cases, etc.
16:21:18 <Roberto> ... e.g. issues with gzip transfer coding
16:25:55 <Roberto> Jonathan: would like to send LC comments through the working group
16:26:46 <Roberto> ... only substantial comment is (4) in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2007Jan/0011.html
16:31:33 <Roberto> Jonathan: does anyone else plan on reading the document and send comments? deadline is next Friday
16:32:07 <Roberto> Paul: people can comment outside of the WG too
16:32:27 <Roberto> Jonathan: my comments were not WSDL specific, really
16:33:22 <Roberto> Jonathan: in WSDL we make special provisions for multiple inline schemas
16:33:59 <Roberto> ... would like such a schema not to be flagged as violating any patterns
16:35:18 <Roberto> ACTION: Paul to report back on which test cases in the WSDL test suite fail the basic patterns, with suggestions on how to address the issues
16:35:49 <Roberto> Jonathan: Policy last call comments by Charlton
16:36:13 <Roberto> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2006Dec/0055.html
16:38:02 <Roberto> Charlton: main issues are policy intersection and security considerations
16:38:53 <Roberto> ... also "policy expression (4)" is not editorial
16:40:13 <Roberto> Asir: how many comments are WSDL-related?
16:40:17 <Roberto> Charlton: 3
16:41:22 <Roberto> ... "XML Element Attachment" (a note), already filed issues for two other ones
16:44:31 <Roberto> Jonathan: potential issue in the item under "Policy Expression (4)"
16:45:08 <Roberto> Charlton: theoretical interest in defining an abstract policy for improved sharing
16:45:18 <Roberto> ... analogy with interface/class relationship
16:45:50 <Roberto> Asir: policy doesn't deal with assertions
16:45:55 <Roberto> Charlton: placeholders for assertions
16:45:59 <monica> q+
16:46:34 <Roberto> Charlton: offers to write up some examples
16:46:41 <Jonathan> ack monica
16:47:18 <Roberto> Monica: idea from BPEL TC; it's a template with placeholders
16:48:11 <Roberto> Jonathan: it looks like a general policy issue, not a policy one
16:50:16 <Roberto> Jonathan: any other substantial issues we can look at today?
16:50:20 <Roberto> Charlton: no
16:51:13 <Roberto> ACTION: Charlton to come up with a list of editorial comments and WSDL substantive issues
16:51:39 <Roberto> Philippe: it's still useful to let them know that there is interest from the group in an issue
16:51:51 <monica> +1
16:52:58 <Roberto> Topic: MTOM description
16:53:03 <Roberto> Jonathan: any news?
16:53:09 <asir> Jonathan, I am signing off
16:53:18 <Roberto> Philippe: XMLP WG meets on Wednesdays
16:53:29 <Roberto> Jonathan: postpone the issue till next week
16:53:36 <Zakim> -asir
16:53:42 <Roberto> Topic: CR117
16:55:07 <Roberto> Youenn: issue with special characters in parameters
16:55:16 <Roberto> ... hard to parse the URI in that case
16:56:05 <Roberto> ... possible solution escape these characters or just urlencode all parameters
16:56:22 <Roberto> s/parameters/parameter values/
16:57:00 <Arthur> q+
16:57:30 <Roberto> Philippe: currently we don't do any escaping
16:57:39 <Roberto> ... last time we discussed this, we decided not to do anything about it
16:57:50 <Roberto> Jonathan: is it a duplicate issue?
16:58:01 <Roberto> Philippe: duplicate of CR053
16:58:16 <plh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2006Jul/att-0001/20060629-ws-desc-minutes.html#item06
17:01:11 <Roberto> Philippe: url escaping happens at the transport layer
17:01:31 <Jonathan> ack arthur
17:02:12 <Roberto> Arthur: you can prevent "/"s by defining your own type
17:02:16 <Roberto> Jonathan: or use NMToken
17:03:10 <Roberto> Arthur: even if you encode a slash, when the URL is decoded how do you reconstruct the parameter values?
17:03:19 <Roberto> ... we'd have to define a particular escaping
17:03:59 <Roberto> Jonathan: unclear when to encode things, except to prevent illegal characters
17:04:16 <Roberto> Arthur: encoding won't by itself fix the problem
17:06:32 <Roberto> Arthur: are we going to have a primer example of constraining the schema type?
17:07:47 <Roberto> Jonathan: # could make the URL invalid too
17:08:05 <Roberto> ... 2 #s seem to be invalid
17:08:12 <Zakim> -Charlton_Barreto
17:09:08 <Roberto> Tony: are there any security issues?
17:09:26 <plh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2006Sep/0034
17:09:35 <Roberto> Philippe: nothing beyond what the URL spec already handles
17:09:37 <plh> "No percent-encoding mechanism, as
17:09:37 <plh>  defined in section 2.1 of RFC 3986, is performed on the replacement
17:09:37 <plh>  value. "
17:10:17 <pauld> notes this is a common issue, Microsoft Outlook Webmail constructs URIs from the subject line, which generates URIs you can't dereference with mails sent with '+' and '&' in the title
17:11:12 <Roberto> Jonathan: restricting schema types is a partial solution, won't work well for book titles with whitespaces
17:11:24 <Roberto> Philippe: whitespaces will get encoded on the wire
17:11:59 <Roberto> ... but there can be information loss
17:12:20 <Zakim> +Charlton_Barreto
17:13:11 <charlton> charlton has joined #ws-desc
17:13:32 <Roberto> Jonathan: don't want to force users to encode data themselves
17:15:06 <Roberto> ... should we mandate or allow an escaping mechanism? what about precluding slashes (which we won't be escaped in any case)?
17:15:30 <Roberto> Arthur: no need to exclude anything, it can be done via a schema type
17:15:47 <Roberto> Jonathan: "The%20Bible" in user data would be bad
17:16:19 <Roberto> Arthur: distinction between what's legal in an URI and how URIs are transported
17:16:47 <Roberto> Jonathan: xs:anyURI allows more characters than the URL spec does
17:17:21 <Roberto> Arthur: even in ASCII, to parse a URL you have to know about the special characters
17:17:58 <charltonb> charltonb has joined #ws-desc
17:18:05 <Roberto> Jonathan: are spaces even an issue?
17:18:12 <Roberto> Arthur: some research needed
17:18:50 <Roberto> Jonathan: with slash, couldn't I have a full URI in the data and the template contain just one parameter?
17:19:31 <Roberto> ... http:location="{foo}"
17:20:22 <plh> [[ As a consequence, if
17:20:22 <plh>  this IRI is an absolute IRI, the {address} property of the Endpoint
17:20:22 <plh>  component is ignored. ]]
17:21:28 <Roberto> Jonathan: need to clarify if the absolutization of the URI precedes or follows parameter substitution
17:21:58 <Roberto> ... the results can be different in the two cases (e.g. with .. in the parameter value)
17:22:12 <Roberto> Jonathan: multiple issues
17:22:29 <Roberto> ... if we allow slash characters, the resulting URLs may be ambiguous
17:22:55 <Roberto> ... preference is not to outlaw this case
17:24:48 <Roberto> Arthur: we could require the serialization from XML to URI to be invertible
17:25:01 <Roberto> Jonathan: don't want to mandate that
17:25:10 <Roberto> ... e.g. the case of existing services which I'd like to describe
17:27:28 <Roberto> ... it's the use cases of WSDL as a general HTTP description language
17:27:43 <Roberto> Arthur: we could define a more constrained URI style
17:28:45 <Roberto> q+
17:29:06 <Roberto> Arthur: leave the URI style as-is and defined a new style which guarantees invertibility
17:29:12 <Roberto> s/defined/define/
17:30:12 <Roberto> Jonathan: it seems hard to define such a style in general terms
17:30:53 <Roberto> Arthur: we can do it in a fairly direct (but constraining) way
17:31:13 <Roberto> Youenn: it may be too complex
17:32:50 <Zakim> -alewis
17:32:56 <Zakim> -TonyR
17:33:06 <TonyR> TonyR has left #ws-desc
17:33:32 <alewis> alewis has left #ws-desc
17:33:54 <Zakim> -Tom_Jordahl
17:34:26 <Roberto> ACTION: Jonathan to analyze CR117 further
17:34:28 <Roberto> q-
17:34:41 <Zakim> -Roberto
17:34:42 <Zakim> -Allen
17:34:43 <Zakim> -Paul_Downey
17:34:44 <Zakim> -Jonathan_Marsh
17:34:45 <Zakim> -m2
17:34:46 <Zakim> -Canon
17:34:48 <Zakim> -Plh
17:34:49 <Zakim> -Arthur_Ryman
17:34:51 <Jonathan> rrsagent, set log world
17:35:01 <Zakim> -Gilbert_Pilz
17:35:07 <Jonathan> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:35:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/01/04-ws-desc-minutes.html Jonathan
17:40:02 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, Charlton_Barreto, in WS_DescWG()11:00AM
17:40:07 <Zakim> WS_DescWG()11:00AM has ended
17:40:08 <Zakim> Attendees were Plh, Gilbert_Pilz, Jonathan_Marsh, Allen, TonyR, Roberto, +1.425.216.aaaa, asir, Arthur_Ryman, Charlton_Barreto, Paul_Downey, m2, Tom_Jordahl, +1.919.742.aabb,
17:40:11 <Zakim> ... +1.919.742.aacc, alewis, +329987aadd, Canon
18:04:39 <Jonathan> RRSAgent, bye
18:04:39 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/04-ws-desc-actions.rdf :
18:04:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jonathan to make sure parameters are added to the URI in the HTTP binding even when no whttp:location appears. [1]
18:04:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/04-ws-desc-irc#T15-17-55
18:04:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Paul to report back on which test cases in the WSDL test suite fail the basic patterns, with suggestions on how to address the issues [2]
18:04:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/04-ws-desc-irc#T16-35-18
18:04:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Charlton to come up with a list of editorial comments and WSDL substantive issues [3]
18:04:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/04-ws-desc-irc#T16-51-13
18:04:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jonathan to analyze CR117 further [4]
18:04:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/04-ws-desc-irc#T17-34-26
18:04:42 <Jonathan> Zakim, bye
18:04:42 <Zakim> Zakim has left #ws-desc