IRC log of dawg on 2007-01-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:23:42 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:23:43 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:23:49 [LeeF]
zakim, this will be DAWG
14:23:49 [Zakim]
ok, LeeF; I see SW_DAWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
14:24:05 [LeeF]
Meeting: RDF DAWG Weekly
14:24:07 [LeeF]
Chair: LeeF
14:24:11 [LeeF]
Scribe: SimonR
14:24:16 [LeeF]
Regrets: kendallclark
14:24:23 [LeeF]
Regrets+ EliasT
14:24:39 [LeeF]
14:24:59 [LeeF]
agenda+ Convene
14:25:08 [LeeF]
agenda+ Review ACTION Items
14:25:18 [LeeF]
agenda+ Test suite process
14:25:24 [LeeF]
agenda+ rq24 algebra
14:25:30 [LeeF]
agenda+ Status of blank node / cardinality issue
14:25:40 [LeeF]
agenda+ Issue: punctuationSyntax
14:29:50 [Zakim]
SW_DAWG()9:30AM has now started
14:29:57 [Zakim]
14:30:01 [AndyS]
zakim, ??P0 is me
14:30:01 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
14:30:08 [LeeF]
zakim, code?
14:30:08 [Zakim]
the conference code is 7333 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.117.370.6152), LeeF
14:30:33 [Zakim]
14:30:35 [AndyS]
Ah = +44 number now. In Bristol as well.
14:30:41 [Zakim]
14:30:50 [AndyS]
I'll redial.
14:30:54 [Zakim]
14:31:30 [Zakim]
14:31:31 [AndyS]
zakim, ??P0 is me
14:31:31 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
14:33:58 [ericP]
Zakim, please dial ericP
14:33:58 [Zakim]
I am sorry, ericP; I do not know a number for ericP
14:34:02 [ericP]
Zakim, please dial ericP-617
14:34:02 [Zakim]
ok, ericP; the call is being made
14:34:03 [Zakim]
14:35:49 [jeen]
jeen has joined #dawg
14:36:35 [LeeF]
sort of :)
14:36:38 [LeeF]
mostly not :)
14:36:45 [SimonR]
Not in any structured way, no.
14:37:18 [Zakim]
14:37:33 [jeen]
Zakim, ??P3 is me
14:37:33 [Zakim]
+jeen; got it
14:37:49 [SimonR]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:37:49 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Simon_Raboczi, LeeF, AndyS, EricP, jeen
14:37:52 [LeeF]
zakim, agenda?
14:37:52 [Zakim]
I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
14:37:54 [Zakim]
1. Convene [from LeeF]
14:37:56 [Zakim]
2. Review ACTION Items [from LeeF]
14:37:57 [Zakim]
3. Test suite process [from LeeF]
14:37:58 [Zakim]
4. rq24 algebra [from LeeF]
14:37:59 [Zakim]
5. Status of blank node / cardinality issue [from LeeF]
14:38:00 [Zakim]
6. Issue: punctuationSyntax [from LeeF]
14:38:11 [LeeF]
Dec 12 minutes:
14:38:13 [SimonR]
Meeting proper starting: 14:37
14:38:48 [LeeF]
Dec. 19 minutes:
14:38:58 [SimonR]
Minutes from 12 Dec approved (seconded by AndyS)
14:39:20 [SimonR]
Minutes from 19 Dex approved (also seconded by AndyS)
14:39:32 [LeeF]
Zakim, next agendum
14:39:32 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Convene" taken up [from LeeF]
14:39:43 [LeeF]
zakim, close agendum
14:39:43 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'close agendum', LeeF
14:39:51 [LeeF]
zakim, pick up agendum 2
14:39:51 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'pick up agendum 2', LeeF
14:39:57 [LeeF]
zakim, move to agendum 2
14:39:57 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Review ACTION Items" taken up [from LeeF]
14:41:30 [SimonR]
I did my ACTION to check out the XML reporting format from xUnit:
14:43:16 [SimonR]
PatH's ACTION to change the entailment text is DONE; others CONTINUE
14:44:36 [SimonR]
Would this be an example: { _:a :p 1 } UNION { _:a :p 2 } -- because we can't have _a: be in the same scope between the two BGPs?
14:45:03 [LeeF]
SimonR, might be, but I don't claim to be able to read Bob M's mind :-)
14:45:30 [LeeF]
Zakim, move to agendum 3
14:45:30 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Test suite process" taken up [from LeeF]
14:45:33 [AndyS]
{ _:a :p ?v . FILTER(?v = 1 || ?v = 2) }
14:45:47 [AndyS]
but that is an easy one :-)
14:45:59 [SimonR]
LeeF: Having second thoughts about leaving BobMcG's objection; would like at least one example of queries that can't be expressed.
14:47:32 [SteveH]
SteveH has joined #dawg
14:48:26 [SimonR]
EricP: Wrote down SPARQL's feature list, associated them with grammar productions -- can associate test cases with the features they exercise
14:50:52 [SimonR]
Jeen: Thought that features were associated implicitly to tests by the way we group them, but if doing it explicitly is useful, sees no harm in it
14:51:18 [ericP]
14:51:52 [ericP]
14:52:26 [ericP]
14:53:12 [ericP]
:WhereClause-noWhere a test:DAWGfacet; test:order 17;
14:53:12 [ericP]
rdfs:comment "WHERE^H^H^H { ... }";
14:53:12 [ericP]
test:production "WhereClause";
14:53:12 [ericP]
test:productionURI sparql:rWhereClause .
14:53:44 [ericP]
:SelectQuery-star a test:DAWGfacet; test:order 9;
14:53:44 [ericP]
rdfs:comment "SELECT *";
14:53:44 [ericP]
test:production "SelectQuery";
14:53:44 [ericP]
test:productionURI sparql:rSelectQuery;
14:53:44 [ericP]
test:yaccProduction "_O_QVar_E_Plus_Or__QTIMES_E__C";
14:53:47 [ericP]
test:rule "TIMES" .
14:55:03 [ericP]
14:55:03 [ericP]
14:55:03 [ericP]
14:55:03 [ericP]
14:55:03 [ericP]
14:55:20 [ericP]
14:55:21 [ericP]
!?s ?p []
14:55:21 [ericP]
14:55:21 [ericP]
14:59:16 [ericP]
14:59:39 [SimonR]
LeeF: Would like to annotate existing tests before migrating to new tests
15:00:07 [LeeF]
15:00:25 [SimonR]
(Sorry, mea culpa)
15:03:23 [SimonR]
AndyS: If tests have a URI, then the detail about language features associated with tests can be put in a separate file -- they're really only of interest to the WG rather than external testers
15:04:34 [SimonR]
EricP: Currently facets have URIs; tests don't yet. Inclined to drop the facets into the existing tests, and give tests URIs during the changeover
15:05:24 [SimonR]
ACTION EricP: run the yacker tool over and annotate the existing tests
15:07:23 [SimonR]
Jeen: Can make a start at some of the less controversial tests to get the process shaken down
15:07:58 [SimonR]
EricP: Talked about using EARL as the reporting format; is Jeen interested in doing that?
15:08:50 [SimonR]
Jeen: slightly reluctant since EARL is new and different from the current tests. What's the benefit?
15:10:13 [LeeF]
ACTION: Jeen to get started setting up new test directory and picking some initial tests for the working group to approve on 9 Jan
15:13:08 [ericP]
SimonR: JUnit exports an XML summary of passed and failed tests
15:13:11 [LeeF]
SimonR: When JUnit runs it outputs an XML summary of the tests that failed and passed -- other tools can consume this XML (e.g. automated build tools)
15:13:15 [AndyS]
q+ to ask if this Junit3 or Junit4 or both?
15:13:23 [ericP]
... there are tools that provide summaries
15:13:47 [ericP]
... there are a couple other communities in python and maybe C++ that are using this
15:14:12 [ericP]
... hasn't become a (defacto) standard yet
15:14:45 [ericP]
... if you could query the EARL test reports, you could XSLT that to JUnit's xml format
15:14:56 [LeeF]
ack AndyS
15:14:57 [Zakim]
AndyS, you wanted to ask if this Junit3 or Junit4 or both?
15:15:29 [ericP]
AndyS: something we can look at?
15:16:26 [AndyS]
can't find it at
15:16:28 [ericP]
SimonR: no schema specified for this
15:16:39 [ericP]
15:17:06 [ericP]
LeeF: seems we wouldn't gain anything over EARL, so lets stick close to our roots
15:17:22 [ericP]
SimonR: you can still XSLT to JUnit
15:17:35 [ericP]
15:18:53 [LeeF]
zakim, agenda?
15:18:53 [Zakim]
I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
15:18:55 [Zakim]
1. Convene [from LeeF]
15:18:56 [SimonR]
LeeF: Defer discussing the algebra until Fred is available
15:18:57 [Zakim]
2. Review ACTION Items [from LeeF]
15:18:58 [Zakim]
3. Test suite process [from LeeF]
15:18:59 [Zakim]
4. rq24 algebra [from LeeF]
15:19:00 [Zakim]
5. Status of blank node / cardinality issue [from LeeF]
15:19:01 [Zakim]
6. Issue: punctuationSyntax [from LeeF]
15:21:11 [LeeF]
15:21:14 [SimonR]
AndyS has the text to be added to the spec in order to enact the bnode/cardinality decision
15:23:20 [LeeF]
zakim, move to agendum 6
15:23:20 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "Issue: punctuationSyntax" taken up [from LeeF]
15:23:34 [LeeF]
15:24:54 [SimonR]
LeeF: In this thread, agreed that could live without commas in the SELECT clause
15:25:12 [SimonR]
EricP: Does LeeF see a path towards mandatory commas?
15:25:51 [SimonR]
LeeF: Once SPARQL 1 is released, unlikely.
15:29:33 [LeeF]
PROPOSED: To close issue, with no change (no commas in the SELECT list or ORDER BY list)
15:30:09 [SimonR]
Seconded by EricP with no objections or abstentions
15:30:18 [LeeF]
ACTION: LeeF to update the issues list marking closed
15:30:20 [jeen]
(actually it was me seconding it)
15:30:47 [SimonR]
Next meeting: Jan 9
15:31:00 [Zakim]
15:31:20 [SimonR]
(No scribe nominated yet)
15:31:41 [SimonR]
Meeting adjourned at 15:30.
15:32:08 [LeeF]
thanks for scribing, Simon! Do you have what you need to get a copy of the minutes to the WG?
15:32:47 [SimonR]
Oops, yes I will.
15:33:27 [SimonR]
Usually someone does the voodoo for me, but I might be able to figure it out with a bit of fiddling...
15:33:44 [AndyS]
rrsagent, please draft the minutes
15:33:44 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'please draft the minutes', AndyS. Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:34:00 [LeeF]
let's see
15:34:28 [LeeF]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:34:28 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate LeeF
15:34:40 [LeeF]
RRSAgent, make log world-visible
15:34:46 [ericP]
15:35:00 [SimonR]
I'll email it to EricP when I'm done so it can be put on the WG list, rather than the comments list.
15:35:20 [LeeF]
Sounds good.
15:35:58 [Zakim]
15:35:59 [AndyS]
AndyS has left #dawg
15:36:41 [LeeF]
Speaking of which -- do you have a moment to chat, Simon? I'd like to know what the chances are (if any!) of getting you on board as a full WG member (and I have no clue what the current status of that is, if anything)
15:39:08 [SimonR]
Sure, I have time. The rough plan (not yet acted upon) is for me to talk to National ICT Australia, which is a W3C member, and get myself attached to them in order to get myself as an official WG member. I haven't moved on that yet, alas. :)
15:39:45 [LeeF]
RRSAgent, please leave
15:39:45 [RRSAgent]
I see 3 open action items saved in :
15:39:45 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: EricP to run the yacker tool over and annotate the existing tests [1]
15:39:45 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
15:39:45 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jeen to get started setting up new test directory and picking some initial tests for the working group to approve on 9 Jan [2]
15:39:45 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
15:39:45 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: LeeF to update the issues list marking closed [3]
15:39:45 [RRSAgent]
recorded in