IRC log of dawg on 2007-01-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:23:42 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #dawg

14:23:43 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/01/02-dawg-irc

14:23:49 [LeeF]

zakim, this will be DAWG

14:23:49 [Zakim]

ok, LeeF; I see SW_DAWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes

14:24:05 [LeeF]

Meeting: RDF DAWG Weekly

14:24:07 [LeeF]

Chair: LeeF

14:24:11 [LeeF]

Scribe: SimonR

14:24:16 [LeeF]

Regrets: kendallclark

14:24:23 [LeeF]

Regrets+ EliasT

14:24:39 [LeeF]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0216.html

14:24:59 [LeeF]

agenda+ Convene

14:25:08 [LeeF]

agenda+ Review ACTION Items

14:25:18 [LeeF]

agenda+ Test suite process

14:25:24 [LeeF]

agenda+ rq24 algebra

14:25:30 [LeeF]

agenda+ Status of blank node / cardinality issue

14:25:40 [LeeF]

agenda+ Issue: punctuationSyntax

14:29:50 [Zakim]

SW_DAWG()9:30AM has now started

14:29:57 [Zakim]

+??P0

14:30:01 [AndyS]

zakim, ??P0 is me

14:30:01 [Zakim]

+AndyS; got it

14:30:08 [LeeF]

zakim, code?

14:30:08 [Zakim]

the conference code is 7333 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), LeeF

14:30:33 [Zakim]

+Simon_Raboczi

14:30:35 [AndyS]

Ah = +44 number now. In Bristol as well.

14:30:41 [Zakim]

+LeeF

14:30:50 [AndyS]

I'll redial.

14:30:54 [Zakim]

-AndyS

14:31:30 [Zakim]

+??P0

14:31:31 [AndyS]

zakim, ??P0 is me

14:31:31 [Zakim]

+AndyS; got it

14:33:58 [ericP]

Zakim, please dial ericP

14:33:58 [Zakim]

I am sorry, ericP; I do not know a number for ericP

14:34:02 [ericP]

Zakim, please dial ericP-617

14:34:02 [Zakim]

ok, ericP; the call is being made

14:34:03 [Zakim]

+EricP

14:35:49 [jeen]

jeen has joined #dawg

14:36:35 [LeeF]

sort of :)

14:36:38 [LeeF]

mostly not :)

14:36:45 [SimonR]

Not in any structured way, no.

14:37:18 [Zakim]

+??P3

14:37:33 [jeen]

Zakim, ??P3 is me

14:37:33 [Zakim]

+jeen; got it

14:37:49 [SimonR]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

14:37:49 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Simon_Raboczi, LeeF, AndyS, EricP, jeen

14:37:52 [LeeF]

zakim, agenda?

14:37:52 [Zakim]

I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:

14:37:54 [Zakim]

1. Convene [from LeeF]

14:37:56 [Zakim]

2. Review ACTION Items [from LeeF]

14:37:57 [Zakim]

3. Test suite process [from LeeF]

14:37:58 [Zakim]

4. rq24 algebra [from LeeF]

14:37:59 [Zakim]

5. Status of blank node / cardinality issue [from LeeF]

14:38:00 [Zakim]

6. Issue: punctuationSyntax [from LeeF]

14:38:11 [LeeF]

Dec 12 minutes: http://www.w3.org/2006/12/12-dawg-minutes

14:38:13 [SimonR]

Meeting proper starting: 14:37

14:38:48 [LeeF]

Dec. 19 minutes: http://www.w3.org/2006/12/19-dawg-minutes

14:38:58 [SimonR]

Minutes from 12 Dec approved (seconded by AndyS)

14:39:20 [SimonR]

Minutes from 19 Dex approved (also seconded by AndyS)

14:39:32 [LeeF]

Zakim, next agendum

14:39:32 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Convene" taken up [from LeeF]

14:39:43 [LeeF]

zakim, close agendum

14:39:43 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'close agendum', LeeF

14:39:51 [LeeF]

zakim, pick up agendum 2

14:39:51 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'pick up agendum 2', LeeF

14:39:57 [LeeF]

zakim, move to agendum 2

14:39:57 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "Review ACTION Items" taken up [from LeeF]

14:41:30 [SimonR]

I did my ACTION to check out the XML reporting format from xUnit: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2007Jan/0000.html

14:43:16 [SimonR]

PatH's ACTION to change the entailment text is DONE; others CONTINUE

14:44:36 [SimonR]

Would this be an example: { _:a :p 1 } UNION { _:a :p 2 } -- because we can't have _a: be in the same scope between the two BGPs?

14:45:03 [LeeF]

SimonR, might be, but I don't claim to be able to read Bob M's mind :-)

14:45:30 [LeeF]

Zakim, move to agendum 3

14:45:30 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "Test suite process" taken up [from LeeF]

14:45:33 [AndyS]

{ _:a :p ?v . FILTER(?v = 1 || ?v = 2) }

14:45:47 [AndyS]

but that is an easy one :-)

14:45:59 [SimonR]

LeeF: Having second thoughts about leaving BobMcG's objection; would like at least one example of queries that can't be expressed.

14:47:32 [SteveH]

SteveH has joined #dawg

14:48:26 [SimonR]

EricP: Wrote down SPARQL's feature list, associated them with grammar productions -- can associate test cases with the features they exercise

14:50:52 [SimonR]

Jeen: Thought that features were associated implicitly to tests by the way we group them, but if doing it explicitly is useful, sees no harm in it

14:51:18 [ericP]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/facets.ttl

14:51:52 [ericP]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/facets

14:52:26 [ericP]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/facets#WhereClause-noWhere

14:53:12 [ericP]

:WhereClause-noWhere a test:DAWGfacet; test:order 17;

14:53:12 [ericP]

rdfs:comment "WHERE^H^H^H { ... }";

14:53:12 [ericP]

test:production "WhereClause";

14:53:12 [ericP]

test:productionURI sparql:rWhereClause .

14:53:44 [ericP]

:SelectQuery-star a test:DAWGfacet; test:order 9;

14:53:44 [ericP]

rdfs:comment "SELECT *";

14:53:44 [ericP]

test:production "SelectQuery";

14:53:44 [ericP]

test:productionURI sparql:rSelectQuery;

14:53:44 [ericP]

test:yaccProduction "_O_QVar_E_Plus_Or__QTIMES_E__C";

14:53:47 [ericP]

test:rule "TIMES" .

14:55:03 [ericP]

test#PrefixDecl

14:55:03 [ericP]

test#SelectQuery-Var1

14:55:03 [ericP]

test#GraphPattern-spo

14:55:03 [ericP]

test#WhereClause-noWhere

14:55:03 [ericP]

test#OrderCondition-rVar

14:55:20 [ericP]

...

14:55:21 [ericP]

!?s ?p []

14:55:21 [ericP]

!?x+?y

14:55:21 [ericP]

!?x-?y

14:59:16 [ericP]

http://tinyurl.com/ybxr85

14:59:39 [SimonR]

LeeF: Would like to annotate existing tests before migrating to new tests

15:00:07 [LeeF]

s/LeeF/ericP

15:00:25 [SimonR]

(Sorry, mea culpa)

15:03:23 [SimonR]

AndyS: If tests have a URI, then the detail about language features associated with tests can be put in a separate file -- they're really only of interest to the WG rather than external testers

15:04:34 [SimonR]

EricP: Currently facets have URIs; tests don't yet. Inclined to drop the facets into the existing tests, and give tests URIs during the changeover

15:05:24 [SimonR]

ACTION EricP: run the yacker tool over and annotate the existing tests

15:07:23 [SimonR]

Jeen: Can make a start at some of the less controversial tests to get the process shaken down

15:07:58 [SimonR]

EricP: Talked about using EARL as the reporting format; is Jeen interested in doing that?

15:08:50 [SimonR]

Jeen: slightly reluctant since EARL is new and different from the current tests. What's the benefit?

15:10:13 [LeeF]

ACTION: Jeen to get started setting up new test directory and picking some initial tests for the working group to approve on 9 Jan

15:13:08 [ericP]

SimonR: JUnit exports an XML summary of passed and failed tests

15:13:11 [LeeF]

SimonR: When JUnit runs it outputs an XML summary of the tests that failed and passed -- other tools can consume this XML (e.g. automated build tools)

15:13:15 [AndyS]

q+ to ask if this Junit3 or Junit4 or both?

15:13:23 [ericP]

... there are tools that provide summaries

15:13:47 [ericP]

... there are a couple other communities in python and maybe C++ that are using this

15:14:12 [ericP]

... hasn't become a (defacto) standard yet

15:14:45 [ericP]

... if you could query the EARL test reports, you could XSLT that to JUnit's xml format

15:14:56 [LeeF]

ack AndyS

15:14:57 [Zakim]

AndyS, you wanted to ask if this Junit3 or Junit4 or both?

15:15:29 [ericP]

AndyS: something we can look at?

15:16:26 [AndyS]

can't find it at junit.org

15:16:28 [ericP]

SimonR: no schema specified for this

15:16:39 [ericP]

s/this/JUnit/

15:17:06 [ericP]

LeeF: seems we wouldn't gain anything over EARL, so lets stick close to our roots

15:17:22 [ericP]

SimonR: you can still XSLT to JUnit

15:17:35 [ericP]

+1

15:18:53 [LeeF]

zakim, agenda?

15:18:53 [Zakim]

I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:

15:18:55 [Zakim]

1. Convene [from LeeF]

15:18:56 [SimonR]

LeeF: Defer discussing the algebra until Fred is available

15:18:57 [Zakim]

2. Review ACTION Items [from LeeF]

15:18:58 [Zakim]

3. Test suite process [from LeeF]

15:18:59 [Zakim]

4. rq24 algebra [from LeeF]

15:19:00 [Zakim]

5. Status of blank node / cardinality issue [from LeeF]

15:19:01 [Zakim]

6. Issue: punctuationSyntax [from LeeF]

15:21:11 [LeeF]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0140.html

15:21:14 [SimonR]

AndyS has the text to be added to the spec in order to enact the bnode/cardinality decision

15:23:20 [LeeF]

zakim, move to agendum 6

15:23:20 [Zakim]

agendum 6. "Issue: punctuationSyntax" taken up [from LeeF]

15:23:34 [LeeF]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0077.html

15:24:54 [SimonR]

LeeF: In this thread, agreed that could live without commas in the SELECT clause

15:25:12 [SimonR]

EricP: Does LeeF see a path towards mandatory commas?

15:25:51 [SimonR]

LeeF: Once SPARQL 1 is released, unlikely.

15:29:33 [LeeF]

PROPOSED: To close http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#punctuationSyntax issue, with no change (no commas in the SELECT list or ORDER BY list)

15:30:09 [SimonR]

Seconded by EricP with no objections or abstentions

15:30:18 [LeeF]

ACTION: LeeF to update the issues list marking http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#punctuationSyntax closed

15:30:20 [jeen]

(actually it was me seconding it)

15:30:47 [SimonR]

Next meeting: Jan 9

15:31:00 [Zakim]

-LeeF

15:31:20 [SimonR]

(No scribe nominated yet)

15:31:41 [SimonR]

Meeting adjourned at 15:30.

15:32:08 [LeeF]

thanks for scribing, Simon! Do you have what you need to get a copy of the minutes to the WG?

15:32:47 [SimonR]

Oops, yes I will.

15:33:27 [SimonR]

Usually someone does the voodoo for me, but I might be able to figure it out with a bit of fiddling...

15:33:44 [AndyS]

rrsagent, please draft the minutes

15:33:44 [RRSAgent]

I'm logging. I don't understand 'please draft the minutes', AndyS. Try /msg RRSAgent help

15:34:00 [LeeF]

let's see

15:34:28 [LeeF]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

15:34:28 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/01/02-dawg-minutes.html LeeF

15:34:40 [LeeF]

RRSAgent, make log world-visible

15:34:46 [ericP]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0009

15:35:00 [SimonR]

I'll email it to EricP when I'm done so it can be put on the WG list, rather than the comments list.

15:35:20 [LeeF]

Sounds good.

15:35:58 [Zakim]

-AndyS

15:35:59 [AndyS]

AndyS has left #dawg

15:36:41 [LeeF]

Speaking of which -- do you have a moment to chat, Simon? I'd like to know what the chances are (if any!) of getting you on board as a full WG member (and I have no clue what the current status of that is, if anything)

15:39:08 [SimonR]

Sure, I have time. The rough plan (not yet acted upon) is for me to talk to National ICT Australia, which is a W3C member, and get myself attached to them in order to get myself as an official WG member. I haven't moved on that yet, alas. :)

15:39:45 [LeeF]

RRSAgent, please leave

15:39:45 [RRSAgent]

I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/02-dawg-actions.rdf :

15:39:45 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: EricP to run the yacker tool over and annotate the existing tests [1]

15:39:45 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/02-dawg-irc#T15-05-24

15:39:45 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Jeen to get started setting up new test directory and picking some initial tests for the working group to approve on 9 Jan [2]

15:39:45 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/02-dawg-irc#T15-10-13

15:39:45 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: LeeF to update the issues list marking http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#punctuationSyntax closed [3]

15:39:45 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/02-dawg-irc#T15-30-18