16:00:23 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #grddl-wg
16:00:23 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/12/20-grddl-wg-irc
16:00:32 <DanC> Zakim, read agenda from http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/weekly-agenda
16:00:32 <Zakim> working on it, DanC
16:00:33 <Zakim> agenda+ Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2006-12-06T11:00-0500
16:00:34 <Zakim> agendum 1 added
16:00:36 <Zakim> agenda+ Test cases for GRDDL with XML documents
16:00:37 <Zakim> agendum 2 added
16:00:40 <Zakim> agenda+ [#issue-output-formats] [DONE?] whether GRDDL transformations may produce RDF in a format other than RDF/XML
16:00:46 <Zakim> agendum 3 added
16:00:47 <Zakim> agenda+ GRDDL and (non-XML) HTML
16:00:48 <Zakim> agendum 4 added
16:00:49 <Zakim> agenda+ Cross-document Introduction
16:00:50 <Zakim> agendum 5 added
16:00:51 <Zakim> agenda+ [#issue-mt-ns]
16:00:52 <Zakim> agendum 6 added
16:00:54 <Zakim> agenda+ [#issue-base-param]
16:00:56 <Zakim> agendum 7 added
16:00:58 <Zakim> agenda+ Primer Document
16:01:02 <Zakim> agendum 8 added
16:01:04 <Zakim> agenda+ GRDDL Spec: General issues
16:01:06 <Zakim> agendum 9 added
16:01:10 <Zakim> done reading agenda, DanC
16:01:19 <Zakim> +DanC
16:01:39 <DanC> Meeting: GRDDL Weekly
16:01:43 <DanC> Scribe: briansuda 
16:02:15 <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:02:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P0, Chimezie_Ogbuji, DanC
16:02:18 <briansuda> Zakim, +[IPcaller] is briansuda
16:02:18 <Zakim> sorry, briansuda, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]'
16:02:29 <briansuda> Zakim, +[??P0] is briansuda
16:02:29 <Zakim> sorry, briansuda, I do not recognize a party named '+[??P0]'
16:02:30 <briansuda> yup
16:02:33 <DanC> Zakim, ??P0 is briansuda 
16:02:33 <Zakim> +briansuda; got it
16:02:37 <briansuda> yes
16:03:37 <DanC> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2006Dec/0063.html
16:03:44 <DanC> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:03:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/12/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html DanC
16:03:54 <DanC> RRSAgent, make record world-access
16:04:37 <Zakim> +??P18
16:05:06 <DanC> Zakim, take up item 1
16:05:07 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2006-12-06T11:00-0500" taken up
16:05:21 <briansuda> links works for me
16:05:31 <DanC> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:05:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/12/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html DanC
16:06:02 <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:06:02 <Zakim> On the phone I see briansuda, Chimezie_Ogbuji, DanC, ??P18
16:06:11 <DanC> Zakim, ??P18 is HarryH 
16:06:11 <Zakim> +HarryH; got it
16:06:26 <briansuda> yeah, i'm fie
16:06:54 <DanC> agenda points to http://www.w3.org/2006/12/13-grddl-wg-minutes.html
16:08:53 <DanC> regrets: BrianS, danja
16:08:54 <HarryH> Zakim, next item
16:08:54 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Test cases for GRDDL with XML documents" taken up
16:09:14 <HarryH> Zakim, open item 1
16:09:14 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2006-12-06T11:00-0500" taken up
16:09:41 <HarryH> RESOLVED to approve http://www.w3.org/2006/12/13-grddl-wg-minutes.html as a true record
16:09:58 <HarryH> Zakim, next item
16:09:58 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, HarryH
16:10:03 <HarryH> Zakim, close this item
16:10:03 <Zakim> agendum 1 closed
16:10:04 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:10:05 <Zakim> 2. Test cases for GRDDL with XML documents
16:10:06 <HarryH> Zakim, next item
16:10:06 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Test cases for GRDDL with XML documents" taken up
16:12:11 <HarryH> ACTION: Fabien to post to sawsdl list relevant questions about RDF mapping and relationship to GRDDL [CONTINUES]
16:12:14 <benadida> benadida has joined #grddl-wg
16:12:26 <Zakim> +benadida
16:12:44 <chimezie> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HCLS/POMROntology
16:13:36 <briansuda> Chime: xml primer example use-case, lightweight ontology for medical records
16:14:00 <chimezie> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HCLS/POMROntology#head-b91a931fb7855e7073e795b75ca71b550ed1e4c3
16:14:14 <HarryH> This would fulfill Dave Booth's request in our comments list: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-comments/2006OctDec/0000.html
16:14:27 <briansuda> Chime: GRDDL transform, HL7 document -> RDF 
16:14:41 <Zakim> +Murray_Maloney
16:16:11 <briansuda> Dan, how to fit GRDDL transformation into the document without breaking the schema?
16:16:22 <HarryH> namespace document is a URN, which is a slight problem.
16:16:45 <briansuda> Chime: schema might be closed.
16:16:58 <HarryH> Chime: But we could use schema annotations, don't think schema is closed to import infoitems from other namespaces.
16:17:35 <briansuda> Harry: plain XML would be a nice addition to the primer
16:18:05 <briansuda> Harry: ian is ok with additions to the primer document
16:18:19 <briansuda> Dan: check it into the test suite
16:18:29 <HarryH> ACTION: Chime's add HL7 plain XML  health care use-case and check it into test suite. 
16:18:54 <HarryH> Zakim, close this item
16:18:54 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
16:18:55 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:18:56 <Zakim> 3. [#issue-output-formats] [DONE?] whether GRDDL transformations may produce RDF in a format other than RDF/XML
16:18:58 <HarryH> Zakim, open item 3
16:18:58 <Zakim> agendum 3. "[#issue-output-formats] [DONE?] whether GRDDL transformations may produce RDF in a format other than RDF/XML" taken up
16:19:39 <HarryH> ACTION: DanC to add N3/turtle mime type to Atom/turtle test case. noting the unregistered status [CONTINUES]
16:19:46 <chimezie> Zakim, who is on the phone?
16:19:46 <Zakim> On the phone I see briansuda, Chimezie_Ogbuji, DanC, HarryH, benadida, Murray_Maloney
16:19:52 <HarryH> ACTION:DanC to write rules about XSLT 1.0 processing [CONTINUES]
16:20:22 <briansuda> Ben: in RDFa html metadata by providing transforms, microformats -> RDFa
16:20:50 <briansuda> keeps the RDFa in the DOM, so you can grab individual items
16:21:11 <briansuda> use GRDDL like mechanism to make RDFA
16:21:28 <briansuda> can this be done with the current GRDDL spec?
16:21:51 <chimezie> we could test this with the current test suite impl..
16:22:15 <briansuda> Ben: output-issue might solve this problem
16:22:40 <briansuda> Ben: requires clients to request RDFa output of given profile
16:23:24 <HarryH> http://www.w3.org/2004/01/rdxh/spec#issue-output-formats is technically still open. 
16:23:26 <briansuda> Dan: GRDDL transformation pointer, source document => HTML/RDFa
16:23:53 <briansuda> Ben: author must use specific profile to make a transformation to RDFa
16:24:07 <chimezie> the agent/client needs some way to know how to parse as RDFa
16:24:36 <briansuda> Ben: how would the client know what transformation to use? RDF, turtle or HTML?
16:25:19 <briansuda> Harry, browser would decipher the transformation and look for RDFa results
16:25:41 <briansuda> murray: GRDDL tells us how to find 1 or more transformations
16:25:50 <briansuda> agent is RDFa aware and GRDDL aware
16:26:15 <chimezie> q+
16:26:18 <briansuda> agent is able to look into class attributes, link element has special @class
16:26:38 <briansuda> chime: RDFa, does it have a specific mimeType?
16:27:03 <briansuda> Ben: no special mimeType - schema or DTD instead
16:27:51 <briansuda> Ben: DTD mostly - murray's direction is a good one
16:28:19 <briansuda> find the RDFa transformation, can be done with various javascript libs
16:29:09 <briansuda> murray: to identify a grddl transformation can be in a LINK element
16:29:48 <briansuda> Dan: hCard page, profile="hcard uri here", this works for GRDDL transform
16:30:50 <briansuda> Murray, namespace transformation keyword, profile transformation keywork... HTML profile document could have link element with special class name for RDFa URI
16:31:24 <briansuda> RDFa aware user agant can follow its nose and find the correct LINK/REL uri and do correct transformation
16:31:28 <chimezie> that's a very specific follow your nose scenario
16:32:12 <briansuda> Dan: worries about choosing a good class attribute
16:32:48 <DanC> (I'm worried about squatting on the author's choice of class attribute values)
16:33:17 <briansuda> Harrry, run all transformation, user agent chooses the right output it wants
16:33:47 <briansuda> murray, try not to complicate GRDDL by using existing attributes in HTML namespace
16:35:00 <DanC> (brian, to attribute a comment to somebody, use a colon, not a comma)
16:36:34 <briansuda> Harry: mimeType for HTML RDFa not part of GRDDL
16:36:57 <briansuda> Ben: differenciate between transforms and/or type the transforms
16:37:32 <briansuda> Dan: run the transform and see what you get instead of typing
16:38:08 <briansuda> Ben: annotate transformation or not?
16:38:50 <HarryH> Annotate the transformation pre-running it
16:39:11 <briansuda> murray: leave it up to the agents to discover the annotation
16:39:48 <briansuda> Dan: GRDDL spec says all are relevant, but if you only want to run certain ones, go ahead
16:40:18 <DanC> (ben, as fodder for hGRDDL testing, there's an existing hCard test: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/testlist2#hcard1 )
16:40:20 <HarryH> ACTION: BenA to write a sample hGRDDL transformation
16:41:17 <DanC> (yes, output formats is closed: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2006Dec/att-0011/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html__charset_us-ascii )
16:41:40 <DanC> (though there are some pending actions)
16:42:06 <briansuda> murray: RDFa, transformation that converts to 'augments HTML RDFa with notations'
16:42:32 <briansuda> wouldn't you want ALL the RDF to annotate ALL of it back into HTML?
16:43:11 <briansuda> Ben: this could be done by keeping other GRDDL pointers
16:43:45 <briansuda> Dan: not all the transformation tell you where an RDF triple belongs back into the HTML
16:44:19 <HarryH> Zakim, next item
16:44:19 <Zakim> agendum 4. "GRDDL and (non-XML) HTML" taken up
16:44:28 <HarryH> Zakim, next item
16:44:28 <Zakim> agendum 4 was just opened, HarryH
16:44:37 <HarryH> Zakim, open item 5
16:44:37 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Cross-document Introduction" taken up
16:46:57 <briansuda> harry: pending edit, to remove the words "scrapping"
16:48:23 <HarryH> ACTION: HarryH to make sure edit "scraping" edit is. 
16:48:36 <HarryH> Zakim, close this item
16:48:36 <Zakim> agendum 5 closed
16:48:38 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:48:39 <HarryH> Zakim, next item
16:48:40 <Zakim> 4. GRDDL and (non-XML) HTML
16:48:41 <Zakim> agendum 4. "GRDDL and (non-XML) HTML" taken up
16:48:47 <HarryH> Zakim, open item 5
16:48:47 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Cross-document Introduction" taken up
16:49:15 <briansuda> Harry: what do do about this without Ian?
16:50:22 <briansuda> Dan: spec pretty much remains the same, otherwise the primer doesn't get the introduction
16:50:50 <briansuda> Murray: happy to withdraw the cross-document intro
16:51:38 <HarryH> ACTION: Ian to reconsider comments on cross-document introduction [WITHDRAWN]
16:51:51 <HarryH> Zakim, open item 6
16:51:51 <Zakim> agendum 6. "[#issue-mt-ns]" taken up
16:52:21 <briansuda> murray: given a doc with a DTD or schema or xinclude....
16:52:53 <DanC> (the HTML DTD has a default 'rect' attribute)
16:53:01 <briansuda> xinclude agumnets document if it is realized
16:53:25 <briansuda> XSLT may or maynot be all of the values if it were xinclude processed
16:53:45 <briansuda> might return two different RDF graphs given if or if not the includes are included
16:53:55 <briansuda> people have to deal with it themselves, or 
16:54:11 <briansuda> MUST do things so you get what the author intended
16:54:18 <briansuda> with XI namespace
16:54:55 <briansuda> transformation in xi namespace, so that xinclude were incountered - discover it, and add something into result
16:55:32 <HarryH> I think there's a problem the xi namespace is not usually the root element.
16:55:33 <briansuda> DanC pointer?
16:55:40 <DanC> Subject: 	XInclude or Not, that is the question
16:55:40 <DanC> Date: 	Thu, 23 Nov 2006 12:24:30 -0500  (11:24 CST)
16:56:07 <briansuda> murray: authors intention to get with xinclude expanded
16:57:32 <briansuda> xinclude namespace is in the document
16:57:46 <briansuda> not in the same namespace, follow you nose for the subtree?
16:57:55 <briansuda> Dan: different GRDDL design
16:58:33 <briansuda> murray: not xi namespace, but explain
16:59:01 <briansuda> simple transform which you can include and make the result graph aware that you missed an xinclude
16:59:23 <briansuda> Dan: if you want you transformation to do xinclude, then make your transformations do xinclude
16:59:46 <briansuda> harry: not mandate any further xml processing, but instead make recommendations
17:00:17 <briansuda> murray: if we add a paragraph, about issues and problems
17:00:22 <briansuda> in the spec
17:00:56 <briansuda> Chime: we currently recomment xproc
17:01:04 <DanC> +1 PROPOSAL: The GRDDL WG does not mandate XInclude and further XML on the source document is wanted to be run before the transformation to RDF, and write a caveat in the specification recommending XPROC when XInclude if this is the case.
17:01:12 <HarryH> The GRDDL WG does not mandate XInclude and further XML processing on the source document is wanted to be run before the transformation to RDF, and write a caveat in the specification recommending XPROC or using (or something like Murray's xinclude transformation)  when this is the case.
17:02:18 <DanC> +1 The GRDDL WG does not mandate XInclude and further XML processing on the source document is wanted to be run before the transformation to RDF, and write a caveat in the specification recommending XPROC or using (or something like Murray's xinclude transformation)  when this is the case.
17:03:09 <DanC> hmm... faithful-infoset
17:03:24 <HarryH> PROPOSAL: The GRDDL WG does not mandate XInclude and further XML processing on the source document before the transformation to RDF, and write a caveat in the specification recommending XPROC when this is the case.
17:03:40 <briansuda> harry: what exactly is the mimetype issue now?
17:03:46 <DanC> PROPOSED: to add issue  faithful-infoset  (split it out of issue-mt-ns) and close it a la: The GRDDL WG does not mandate XInclude and further XML processing on the source document before the transformation to RDF, and write a caveat in the specification recommending XPROC when this is the case.
17:04:03 <briansuda> not me
17:04:17 <benadida> not me, but I'm comfortable abstaining
17:04:20 <DanC> brian, you'd rather think more? you'd rather abstain?
17:04:24 <briansuda> abstain
17:05:30 <DanC> "
17:05:30 <DanC> I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but that rather than us
17:05:30 <DanC> trying to give a definitive answer on xinclude processing, we could
17:05:30 <DanC> leave it to the publisher. " -- McBride
17:05:37 <DanC> Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:16:51 -0000
17:06:50 <HarryH> RESOLVED:  to add issue  faithful-infoset  (split it out of issue-mt-ns) and close it a la: The GRDDL WG does not mandate XInclude and further XML processing on the source document before the transformation to RDF, and write a caveat in the specification recommending XPROC when this is the case. (benA and BrianS abstaining)
17:07:17 <HarryH> ACTION: Murry to draft paragraph giving us caveat for faithful infoset issue closure.
17:07:23 <HarryH> Zakim, next item
17:07:23 <Zakim> agendum 4. "GRDDL and (non-XML) HTML" taken up
17:07:34 <DanC> Zakim, close item 4
17:07:36 <HarryH> Zakim, open item 7
17:07:38 <Zakim> agendum 4, GRDDL and (non-XML) HTML, closed
17:07:42 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:07:47 <Zakim> 7. [#issue-base-param]
17:07:48 <Zakim> agendum 7. "[#issue-base-param]" taken up
17:08:15 <HarryH> PROPOSAL:  Given that a base URI parameter is a parameter whose value is the base URI of the source document, the WG RESOLVES not to define a base URI parameter for transforms.
17:08:32 <briansuda> Dan: is ok, and results in no edits to spec
17:08:57 <briansuda> eRDF uses base-construct
17:09:27 <briansuda> harry: can't change base-parameter
17:09:50 <briansuda> harry: defining default para
17:10:20 <HarryH> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/testlist1#baseURI
17:10:37 <Zakim> -Murray_Maloney
17:11:24 <HarryH> RESOLVED:  Given that a base URI parameter is a parameter whose value is the base URI of the source document, the WG RESOLVES not to define a base URI parameter for transforms.
17:11:44 <DanC> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2006Dec/0028.html
17:11:52 <HarryH> ACTION: Harry to check in Bwm's test case: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2006Dec/0028.html
17:12:37 <HarryH> Zakim, open item 8
17:12:37 <Zakim> agendum 8. "Primer Document" taken up
17:12:39 <Zakim> -Chimezie_Ogbuji
17:13:04 <HarryH> BrianS - are you available in 2 hours or so?
17:13:07 <briansuda> sure
17:13:15 <HarryH> OK, let's try to finish some of this off then :)
17:13:32 <HarryH> ACTION: Harry and Brian to rewrite second part of primer to use Brian and Dan's instance data. See  message from Brian and message from Harry. [CONTINUES]
17:13:45 <HarryH> Zakim, open item 9
17:13:45 <Zakim> agendum 9. "GRDDL Spec: General issues" taken up
17:14:00 <DanC> (hmm... when to do another release of the GRDDL primer WD?)
17:14:36 <briansuda> harry: next meeting will be...
17:14:45 <DanC> Topic: Next Meeting
17:14:53 <DanC> RESOLVED: to cancel 27 Dec
17:15:09 <DanC> anybody _want_ to meet on 3 Jan?
17:15:10 <HarryH> Does anyone want to meet on 3rd?
17:15:18 <briansuda> not perticularly
17:15:21 <DanC> RESOLVED: to cancel 3 Jan
17:15:32 <HarryH> Next meeting: Janurary 10th
17:15:38 <HarryH> Zakim, pick a scribe
17:15:38 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose benadida
17:15:42 <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
17:15:42 <Zakim> On the phone I see briansuda, DanC, HarryH, benadida
17:16:19 <DanC> RESOLVED: to meet next 10 Jan, benadida to scribe
17:16:42 <briansuda> sure
17:16:48 <DanC> ADJOURN
17:16:54 <DanC> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:16:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/12/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html DanC
17:16:58 <Zakim> -benadida
17:16:59 <Zakim> -HarryH
17:17:15 <DanC> Chair: HarryH 
17:17:18 <DanC> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:17:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/12/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html DanC
17:17:28 <DanC> Zakim, list attendees
17:17:28 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Chimezie_Ogbuji, DanC, briansuda, HarryH, benadida, Murray_Maloney
17:17:33 <DanC> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:17:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/12/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html DanC
17:17:38 <briansuda> sure
17:17:43 <Zakim> -DanC
17:17:49 <Zakim> -briansuda
17:17:51 <Zakim> SW_GRDDL()11:00AM has ended
17:17:52 <Zakim> Attendees were Chimezie_Ogbuji, DanC, briansuda, HarryH, benadida, Murray_Maloney
17:17:55 <DanC> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:17:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/12/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html DanC
17:18:38 <DanC> I'd like you to grab that and clean it up just a bit... get rid of the dups in the TOC
17:18:51 <DanC> and then mail it to public-grdd-wg@w3.org as an attachment. OK?
17:18:55 <briansuda> right, and i'll change and ',' to ':'
17:19:09 <briansuda> not a problem
17:19:18 <DanC> well, to change , to :, you kinda have to grab the IRC log and run it thru scribe.perl on your machine.
17:19:31 <DanC> That's an option, but it's sorta above and beyond the call of duty for a meeting of this sorty
17:19:32 <DanC> sort
17:20:08 <DanC> I think just cleaning up the TOC suffices... umm... lemme check the action summary...
17:20:15 <benadida> benadida has left #grddl-wg
17:20:35 <briansuda> can i remove myself from the regrets as well?
17:20:39 <DanC> yes
17:20:47 <DanC> and chop off the diagnostics
17:20:51 <briansuda> k
17:20:59 <DanC> action summary looks close enough
17:21:28 <DanC> ok, enjoy.
17:21:33 <briansuda> happy holidays
17:21:43 <DanC> Merry Christmas.
17:21:48 <briansuda> if you find any issues with the hg stuff, let me know
17:24:57 <DanC> will do
17:25:09 <DanC> now to update the GRDDL issues list with all these resolved issues...
18:32:46 <DanC> ok, the issues list is up-to-date http://www.w3.org/2004/01/rdxh/spec#issues 1.180  2006/12/20 18:30:48
18:32:56 <DanC> RRSAgent, stop