15:21:41 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rif
15:21:41 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/12/12-rif-irc
15:21:45 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rif
15:21:57 <ChrisW> /invite zakim #rif
15:21:57 <ChrisW> /invite rrsagent #rif
15:22:04 <ChrisW> zakim, this will be rif
15:22:04 <Zakim> ok, ChrisW; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 38 minutes
15:22:04 <ChrisW> Meeting: RIF Telecon 5 Dec 06
15:22:46 <ChrisW> Meeting: RIF Telecon 12 Dec 06
15:22:46 <ChrisW> Chair: Chris Welty
15:22:46 <ChrisW> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Dec/0021.html
15:23:20 <ChrisW> Zakim, read agenda from http://www.w3.org/2006/10/17-rif-agenda.rdf
15:23:20 <Zakim> working on it, ChrisW
15:23:22 <Zakim> agenda+ Admin' [ChrisW]
15:23:23 <Zakim> agendum 1 added
15:23:24 <Zakim> agenda+ F2F [ChrisW]
15:23:25 <Zakim> agendum 2 added
15:23:26 <Zakim> agenda+ Liason [ChrisW]
15:23:27 <Zakim> agendum 3 added
15:23:28 <Zakim> agenda+ Technical Design [ChrisW]
15:23:29 <Zakim> agendum 4 added
15:23:30 <Zakim> agenda+ RIF-RAF [ChrisW]
15:23:31 <Zakim> agendum 5 added
15:23:33 <Zakim> agenda+ UCR [ChrisW]
15:23:35 <Zakim> agendum 6 added
15:23:37 <Zakim> agenda+ AOB [ChrisW]
15:23:38 <ChrisW> ChrisW has changed the topic to: 12 Dec RIF agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Dec/0021.html
15:23:39 <Zakim> agendum 7 added
15:23:41 <Zakim> done reading agenda, ChrisW
15:45:58 <AlexKozlenkov> AlexKozlenkov has joined #rif
15:54:38 <Harold> Harold has joined #rif
15:55:30 <Zakim> SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
15:55:37 <Zakim> +[NRCC]
15:56:00 <Harold> zakim, [NRCC] is me
15:56:00 <Zakim> +Harold; got it
15:57:31 <mdean> mdean has joined #rif
15:57:58 <MarkusK> MarkusK has joined #rif
15:58:25 <DaveReynolds> DaveReynolds has joined #rif
15:59:16 <Zakim> +Dave_Reynolds (was Guest P7 74394)
15:59:17 <Zakim> +Dave_Reynolds
15:59:27 <Hassan> Hassan has joined #rif
15:59:33 <Zakim> +[IBM]
15:59:42 <ChrisW> zakim, [ibm] is temporarily me
15:59:42 <Zakim> +ChrisW; got it
15:59:55 <Zakim> +Hassan_Ait-Kaci
16:00:33 <Allen> Allen has joined #rif
16:00:47 <josb> josb has joined #rif
16:00:51 <csma> csma has joined #rif
16:00:59 <Zakim> +Mike_Dean
16:01:17 <LeoraMorgenstern> LeoraMorgenstern has joined #rif
16:01:52 <Zakim> +??P9
16:02:00 <StellaMitchell> StellaMitchell has joined #rif
16:02:13 <Zakim> +??P25
16:02:24 <csma> zakim, ??P25 is me
16:02:24 <Zakim> +csma; got it
16:02:33 <Zakim> +Allen_Ginsberg
16:02:35 <patranja> patranja has joined #rif
16:02:36 <Zakim> +Sandro
16:02:51 <Allen> zakim, mute me
16:02:51 <Zakim> Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
16:03:15 <sandro> ChrisW, I'm having phone problems today, so I might have to drop off for a few minutes.
16:03:18 <Zakim> +Leora_Morgenstern
16:03:21 <GiorgosStoilos> GiorgosStoilos has joined #rif
16:03:26 <LeoraMorgenstern> zakim, please mute me
16:03:26 <Zakim> Leora_Morgenstern should now be muted
16:03:36 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:03:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see Harold, Dave_Reynolds, ChrisW, Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), Mike_Dean, josb? (muted), csma, Allen_Ginsberg (muted), Sandro (muted), Leora_Morgenstern (muted)
16:03:42 <Zakim> +??P44
16:03:54 <AlexKozlenkov> zakim, ??P44 is me
16:03:54 <Zakim> +AlexKozlenkov; got it
16:03:54 <MichaelKifer> MichaelKifer has joined #rif
16:03:57 <GiorgosStoilos> GiorgosStoilos has joined #rif
16:04:03 <AlexKozlenkov> zakim, mute me
16:04:03 <Zakim> AlexKozlenkov should now be muted
16:04:05 <Deborah_Nichols> Deborah_Nichols has joined #rif
16:04:14 <markproctor> markproctor has joined #rif
16:04:19 <Zakim> +??P45
16:04:24 <Zakim> + +1.914.769.aaaa
16:04:44 <Zakim> +Deborah_Nichols
16:04:56 <Zakim> -??P45
16:04:56 <igor> igor has joined #rif
16:05:06 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:05:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see Harold, Dave_Reynolds, ChrisW, Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), Mike_Dean, josb? (muted), csma, Allen_Ginsberg (muted), Sandro (muted), Leora_Morgenstern (muted),
16:05:13 <Zakim> ... AlexKozlenkov (muted), StellaMitchell, Deborah_Nichols (muted)
16:05:14 <Zakim> +Giorgos_Stamou
16:05:18 <Zakim> +MichaelKifer
16:05:36 <MichaelKifer> zakim, mute me
16:05:36 <Zakim> MichaelKifer should now be muted
16:05:44 <Zakim> +??P53
16:05:49 <Zakim> +??P54
16:05:49 <GiorgosStoilos> scribenick: GiorgosStoilos
16:06:12 <ChrisW> || FrancisMcCabe || 1/31 || 7/11 ||
16:06:19 <PaulaP> zakim, ??P54 is me 
16:06:19 <Zakim> +PaulaP; got it
16:06:21 <ChrisW> Scribe: Girogos Stoilos
16:06:35 <igor> zakim, ??P54 is me
16:06:35 <Zakim> I already had ??P54 as PaulaP, igor
16:06:45 <Zakim> +??P57
16:06:52 <GiorgosStoilos> december 26th telecon is canceled
16:06:57 <igor> igor has joined #rif
16:07:13 <GiorgosStoilos> Telecon on Jaruary 2nd will be help
16:07:31 <ChrisW> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Dec/att-0008/minutes-12-05-06.html
16:07:41 <igor> 41#
16:07:50 <GiorgosStoilos> topic: 5/12 minutes
16:07:58 <PaulaP> q?
16:08:00 <GiorgosStoilos> accepted minutes 5/12
16:08:16 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
16:08:17 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Admin'" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:08:22 <igor> zakim, ??P53 is me
16:08:22 <Zakim> +igor; got it
16:08:23 <ChrisW> zakim, close agendum 1
16:08:23 <Zakim> agendum 1, Admin', closed
16:08:24 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:08:25 <Zakim> 2. F2F [from ChrisW]
16:08:25 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
16:08:25 <Zakim> agendum 2. "F2F" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:08:32 <igor> zakim, mute me
16:08:32 <Zakim> igor should now be muted
16:08:34 <GiorgosStoilos> topic: F2F5
16:08:42 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/38457/f2f5-schedule/results
16:09:04 <johnhall> johnhall has joined #rif
16:09:27 <GiorgosStoilos> chrisW: no oposition for three days meeting
16:09:35 <Hassan> Where is the next F2F meeting taking place?
16:09:42 <Allen> zakim,unmute me
16:09:42 <Zakim> Allen_Ginsberg should no longer be muted
16:09:46 <GiorgosStoilos> ...might be good for work, will try
16:10:11 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:10:23 <agiurca> agiurca has joined #rif
16:10:24 <johnhall> zakim, ipcaller is me
16:10:24 <Zakim> +johnhall; got it
16:10:32 <Zakim> +Gary_Hallmark
16:10:33 <johnhall> zakim,mute me
16:10:34 <Zakim> johnhall should now be muted
16:10:44 <sandro> ACTION Sandro: set up WBS registration form for F2F5
16:11:09 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
16:11:09 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Liason" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:11:13 <sandro> rifbot, test?
16:11:19 <Allen> zakim, mute me
16:11:19 <Zakim> Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
16:11:22 <Zakim> + +44.208.995.aabb
16:11:23 <johnhall> sbvr - none
16:11:26 <sandro> rifbot, help
16:11:26 <rifbot> See http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/ for help (use the IRC bot link)
16:11:32 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
16:11:32 <Zakim> agendum 3 was just opened, ChrisW
16:11:38 <ChrisW> zakim, close item 3
16:11:38 <Zakim> agendum 3, Liason, closed
16:11:39 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:11:39 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
16:11:41 <Zakim> 4. Technical Design [from ChrisW]
16:11:42 <GiorgosStoilos> chrisW: nothing to report on liason
16:11:42 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Technical Design" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:11:44 <Zakim> +agiurca
16:11:52 <agiurca> zakim, mute me
16:11:52 <csma> q?
16:11:53 <Zakim> agiurca should now be muted
16:12:14 <LeoraMorgenstern> zakim, unmute me
16:12:14 <Zakim> Leora_Morgenstern should no longer be muted
16:12:47 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:12:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see Harold, Dave_Reynolds, ChrisW, Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), Mike_Dean, josb? (muted), csma, Allen_Ginsberg (muted), Sandro (muted), Leora_Morgenstern, AlexKozlenkov
16:12:50 <Zakim> ... (muted), StellaMitchell (muted), Deborah_Nichols (muted), Giorgos_Stamou, MichaelKifer (muted), igor (muted), PaulaP (muted), MarkusK (muted), johnhall (muted), Gary_Hallmark,
16:12:52 <Zakim> ... +44.208.995.aabb, agiurca (muted)
16:13:43 <csma> zakim, aabb is markp
16:13:43 <Zakim> +markp; got it
16:14:01 <csma> zakim, markp is markproctor
16:14:01 <Zakim> +markproctor; got it
16:14:05 <sandro> markproctor, you don't need to read the Telecon docs right now.   Later is fine.
16:14:13 <markproctor> ok
16:14:17 <GiorgosStoilos> action-186: done
16:14:21 <markproctor> so is there anything I need to do now? or am I ok?
16:14:33 <GiorgosStoilos> action-182: continued
16:15:04 <sandro> You're okay now, Mark.      (csma entered the line "zakim, aabb is markp", which took care of it.)
16:15:39 <GiorgosStoilos> action-188: open
16:15:46 <GiorgosStoilos> action-192: done
16:16:08 <GiorgosStoilos> action-193: done
16:16:22 <DaveReynolds> I downloaded it successfully
16:16:34 <igor> +
16:16:36 <igor> 1
16:17:17 <MichaelKifer> zakim, unmute me
16:17:17 <Zakim> MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
16:17:18 <AlexKozlenkov> I can't read that document
16:17:19 <GiorgosStoilos> chrisW: talk about sort in the syntax
16:18:02 <GiorgosStoilos> chrisW: is sorted syntax clear?
16:18:04 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:18:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see Harold, Dave_Reynolds, ChrisW, Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), Mike_Dean, josb? (muted), csma, Allen_Ginsberg (muted), Sandro (muted), Leora_Morgenstern, AlexKozlenkov
16:18:08 <Zakim> ... (muted), StellaMitchell (muted), Deborah_Nichols (muted), Giorgos_Stamou, MichaelKifer, igor (muted), PaulaP (muted), MarkusK (muted), johnhall (muted), Gary_Hallmark,
16:18:10 <ChrisW> zakim, who is talking?
16:18:11 <Zakim> ... markproctor, agiurca (muted)
16:18:20 <Zakim> ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: csma (61%), MichaelKifer (27%)
16:18:21 <GaryHallmark> GaryHallmark has joined #rif
16:18:36 <GiorgosStoilos> csma: michaels example not clear
16:19:07 <markproctor> zakim, mute me
16:19:07 <Zakim> markproctor should now be muted
16:20:10 <Harold> Christian, sort subsumption definition could be reused from external taxonomies, e.g. out there in RDFS or OWL.
16:20:27 <GiorgosStoilos> csma: how does it relate to hasan's paper?
16:20:41 <sandro> (I'm baffled at the idea that an abstract syntax could be readable -- only concrete syntaxes can be written down -- but I'd rather not go into it now.)
16:20:45 <GiorgosStoilos> ...the ILOG use of sorts
16:20:50 <igor> igor has joined #rif
16:20:51 <Hassan> q+
16:21:00 <DaveReynolds> +1 to Sandro
16:21:11 <GiorgosStoilos> michael: it is almost the same, difference in the sloted syntax
16:21:46 <Hassan> q-
16:21:47 <MichaelKifer> zakim, mute me
16:21:47 <Zakim> MichaelKifer should now be muted
16:21:52 <GiorgosStoilos> hassan: there was a missunderstanding, michael will provide details about our discussion on the issue
16:22:04 <Harold> Sandro, I think there still is a terminological confusion about abstract syntax and human-oriented syntax.
16:22:06 <MichaelKifer> zakim, unmute me
16:22:06 <Zakim> MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
16:22:28 <sandro> So it would seem, Harold.   :-)
16:22:38 <sandro> (caused by WebOnt, I suspect.)
16:22:45 <GiorgosStoilos> michael: need a syntax for specifying the sort. In XML you can do it by tricks
16:23:05 <Harold> Your remark applies to abstract syntax, Michael meant human-oriented syntax.
16:23:09 <Hassan> s/RIF/RIF/
16:23:14 <GiorgosStoilos> michael: we have to work out how to do it
16:23:15 <Hassan> s/RIG/RIF/
16:23:21 <MichaelKifer> zakim, mute me
16:23:21 <Zakim> MichaelKifer should now be muted
16:23:52 <GiorgosStoilos> chrisW: is webizing of sorts clear now?
16:23:56 <sandro> zakim, unmute me
16:23:56 <Zakim> Sandro should no longer be muted
16:24:24 <GiorgosStoilos> sandro: Don't understand it yet. Need to see complete document
16:25:06 <GiorgosStoilos> sandro: it is heading to the right direction but need to see details
16:25:36 <GiorgosStoilos> chrisW: slotted syntax
16:25:40 <MichaelKifer> zakim, unmute me
16:25:40 <Zakim> MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
16:26:14 <GiorgosStoilos> michael: haven't finalized it, there was a problem out of the F2F
16:26:14 <ChrisW> q?
16:26:16 <LeoraMorgenstern> zakim, mute me
16:26:16 <Zakim> Leora_Morgenstern should now be muted
16:26:23 <GiorgosStoilos> michael: many semantics
16:26:49 <GiorgosStoilos> michael: syntax the same but semantics are different
16:27:04 <GiorgosStoilos> ...should identify minimal syntax, but is difficult
16:27:06 <sandro> (To be clear about my issue on Webizing --- I don't see how webizing affects the semantics.   It's just allowing identifiers to have weird characters in them.)
16:27:38 <GiorgosStoilos> ...come out with nucleus and propose different slotted syntaxes
16:27:46 <Hassan> q+
16:28:02 <GiorgosStoilos> michael: we could provide options of syntax for people to use
16:28:45 <GiorgosStoilos> ...one example is syntax in RuleML and another in Hassan's proposal
16:29:00 <GiorgosStoilos> ...another one can be found in F-Logic
16:29:18 <GiorgosStoilos> ...in F-Logic is only applied to atomic formulas
16:29:54 <GiorgosStoilos> the syntaxes are similar but the meaning different
16:29:59 <MichaelKifer> zakim, mute me
16:29:59 <Zakim> MichaelKifer should now be muted
16:30:02 <GiorgosStoilos> hassan: Agree with michael
16:30:08 <agiurca> kakim, unmute me
16:30:17 <agiurca> zakim, unmute me
16:30:17 <Zakim> agiurca should no longer be muted
16:30:18 <GiorgosStoilos> hassan: but common syntax could be possible 
16:30:35 <agiurca> q+
16:30:52 <MichaelKifer> zakim, unmute me
16:30:52 <Zakim> MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
16:31:02 <GiorgosStoilos> hassan: we discussed about one syntax with different semantics (interpretations) we michael over main
16:31:14 <GiorgosStoilos> s/main/mail
16:31:53 <GiorgosStoilos> hassan: different interpretations regarding different levels (e.g. concepts vs. relations)
16:32:05 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has joined #rif
16:32:17 <sandro> q+ to ask if the reuse-with-different semantics that Hassan is talking about applies to whole documents, or only to fragments?
16:32:38 <Hassan> q-
16:32:45 <Zakim> +Axel_Polleres
16:33:19 <GiorgosStoilos> michael: need 3 different dialects, if we use different dialects would not mean we understand each other even if syntax is the same
16:33:29 <Harold> The issue that came up after F2F4 is, how, then, would we handle this?
16:33:31 <Harold> p(a,b) does not unify with p(a).
16:33:35 <sandro> q-
16:33:59 <Harold> Hence, with our shortcut convention,
16:34:00 <Harold> p{1->a,2->b} could not unify with p{1->a}.
16:34:42 <GiorgosStoilos> michaerl: this could be part of the CORE document. Would be able to exchange rules
16:35:03 <agiurca> At present we are not concerned with unification
16:35:39 <Harold> But the subsumption semantics would make them unify.
16:36:29 <GiorgosStoilos> hassan: might agree on normative but not on syntax
16:36:31 <sandro> This whole "we could have multiple dialects in core" sounds wrong.
16:36:57 <sandro> ChrisW, you have people on the queue.
16:37:29 <GiorgosStoilos> csma: can't we agree on 1 syntax, but which can be interpreted differently
16:37:36 <Harold> We could have 'rest' variables:  p(a,b) does unify with p(a | X).
16:37:49 <Harold> p{1->a,2->b} could unify with p{1->a | X}.
16:38:30 <GiorgosStoilos> michael: if you agree on syntax you have to also specify semantics to exchange
16:39:52 <GiorgosStoilos> michael: harold's example might not cover c-terms
16:40:08 <sandro> q?
16:41:18 <GiorgosStoilos> hassan: subsumption is too much for minimal core
16:42:46 <GiorgosStoilos> hassan: you can close your signature and have the same semantics as individuals
16:43:03 <agiurca> john{age->40} what is the predicate ?
16:43:08 <sandro> ChrisW?    Are you purposely ignoring the queue or not paying attention to IRC?
16:43:16 <GiorgosStoilos> hassan: it is important for exchange 
16:43:29 <Harold>  We could 'encapsulate' slotted terms into unary atoms: p({1->a,2->b}) could unify with p({1->a | X}).
16:43:56 <Harold> So, we would not need slotted atoms, directly.
16:44:01 <GiorgosStoilos> hassan: If I exchange with someone if we don't agree on idividuals we won't be able to exchange
16:44:55 <GiorgosStoilos> hassan: if we want a hard core we might not want subsumption
16:45:01 <Harold> Not building in subsumption could be expressed syntactically:
16:45:06 <ChrisW> q?
16:45:14 <Harold> Not allowing rest variables.
16:45:18 <sandro> zakim, agiurca is GerdWagner
16:45:18 <Zakim> +GerdWagner; got it
16:45:30 <ChrisW> q?
16:45:32 <MichaelKifer> zakim, mute me
16:45:32 <Zakim> MichaelKifer should now be muted
16:45:33 <ChrisW> ack
16:45:35 <ChrisW> ack ag
16:45:36 <GiorgosStoilos> gerd: the quetion is what is the use of a slot. It is a property value
16:45:39 <MichaelKifer> zakim, unmute me
16:45:39 <Zakim> MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
16:46:07 <GiorgosStoilos> michael: so you mean like F-Logic and RDF
16:46:18 <AxelPolleres> in some languages properties/attributes are global, in some not... does this play here?
16:46:33 <GiorgosStoilos> michael: my understaning is that cterms do types
16:46:40 <GiorgosStoilos> hassan: they do both
16:47:06 <GiorgosStoilos> michael: the use of slots in RuleML is not the same
16:47:18 <csma> q+
16:47:24 <GiorgosStoilos> hassan: agree with Gerd
16:47:40 <GiorgosStoilos> Gerd: that is what we should capture in CORE
16:47:50 <csma> q?
16:48:15 <Harold> Axel, normally slot names are local, with webizing they could be made global.
16:48:18 <csma> q?
16:48:41 <GiorgosStoilos> Gerd: slots have the meaning og properties
16:49:13 <GiorgosStoilos> csma: hassan you call slots as features in your paper
16:50:02 <sandro> (writing down the core thing I just grokked)   MichaelKifer: In the relational model, the identity is established by the tuple of property values -- -unlike in F-Logic, etc.
16:51:18 <agiurca> set valued slots in flogic john[son->>{brian, adrian}]
16:51:59 <ChrisW> ack csma
16:52:00 <csma> q-
16:52:01 <MichaelKifer> zakim, mute me
16:52:01 <Zakim> MichaelKifer should now be muted
16:52:02 <Hassan> q-
16:52:07 <Harold> q+
16:52:12 <GiorgosStoilos> chrisW: I prefer a single CORE without dialects
16:53:00 <Harold> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/charter#xml-syntax
16:53:06 <agiurca> the syntax (Con -> Term) does not work as a slot!
16:53:11 <Hassan> Fine with ChrisW to have a "weak" core as long as it is extensible and does not lock us in some incompatibe design
16:53:16 <Harold> In order to allow interoperability with RDF and object-oriented systems, the syntax must support named arguments (also called "role" or "slot" names), allowing n-ary facts, rules, and queries to be provided through property/value interfaces.
16:53:17 <MichaelKifer> zakim, unmute me
16:53:17 <Zakim> MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
16:53:45 <GiorgosStoilos> harold: agree with chrisW
16:54:24 <GiorgosStoilos> michael: it is not clear to produce CORE compatible with all 3 directions
16:54:36 <GiorgosStoilos> harold: only need the minimum not all 3
16:54:47 <Hassan> q+
16:54:52 <GiorgosStoilos> michael: does this mean intersection? might not be possible
16:55:24 <GiorgosStoilos> harold: we will work on it. Send something on Monday
16:55:44 <ChrisW> ack har
16:55:46 <ChrisW> ack has
16:55:52 <MichaelKifer> zakim, mute me
16:55:52 <Zakim> MichaelKifer should now be muted
16:56:00 <agiurca> zakim, mute me
16:56:00 <Zakim> sorry, agiurca, I do not see a party named 'agiurca'
16:56:17 <GiorgosStoilos> chrisW: summing up will have a new version by Monday
16:57:02 <GiorgosStoilos> csma: how order sorted terms related to constraints?
16:57:56 <GiorgosStoilos> hassan: want to see how to map them to constraints
16:58:27 <Harold> Christian, order-sorted logics use a sort lattice, which could come from RDFS subClassOf taxonomies or corresponding OWL-DL ontologies.
16:59:41 <Harold> So, RIF can reuse light-weight ontologies that are out there in RDFS and OWL.
16:59:46 <GiorgosStoilos> csma: it does not say anything about interchanging between different datamodels
16:59:57 <GiorgosStoilos> hassan: it shits the level of interchange
17:00:25 <GiorgosStoilos> s/shits/shifts
17:00:36 <GiorgosStoilos> :(
17:01:53 <GiorgosStoilos> chrisW: we should talks about designs goals
17:02:04 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
17:02:04 <Zakim> agendum 5. "RIF-RAF" taken up [from ChrisW]
17:02:42 <LeoraMorgenstern> zakim, unmute me
17:02:42 <Zakim> Leora_Morgenstern should no longer be muted
17:02:52 <LeoraMorgenstern> q+
17:03:18 <csma> ack leora
17:03:22 <GiorgosStoilos> chrisW: we have some actions from the f2f are they finished
17:03:42 <GiorgosStoilos> leora: some progress but don't think are completed
17:04:00 <Allen> I haven't done it
17:04:20 <GiorgosStoilos> csma: these are low priority actions
17:04:45 <GiorgosStoilos> chrisW: what would be a reasonable deadline?
17:05:22 <GiorgosStoilos> chrisw: end of December for actions of axel and paula?
17:05:25 <PaulaP> I'm not sure
17:05:26 <GiorgosStoilos> axel: OK
17:05:29 <PaulaP> I'll try
17:05:50 <PaulaP> me zakim, unmute me
17:05:58 <PaulaP> ok
17:06:22 <Hassan> Yes - thanks ! :-)
17:06:28 <Allen> zakim, unmute me
17:06:28 <Zakim> Allen_Ginsberg should no longer be muted
17:06:34 <GiorgosStoilos> chrisw: axel and leora might free hassan from rifraf
17:07:11 <AxelPolleres> remarkfrom my side: for drafting a "document" i would really like to have all the input. I hope to have time to work for it next week. I can see how far I get and whether I can take over sec 2.
17:07:25 <AxelPolleres> but this is no promise I want to make now.
17:07:27 <GiorgosStoilos> chrisw: does anyone want to take ontologizing rifraf section two
17:07:48 <GiorgosStoilos> action: chrisW to reasign rifraf actions
17:07:48 <rifbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - chrisW
17:07:50 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
17:07:50 <Zakim> agendum 6. "UCR" taken up [from ChrisW]
17:07:52 <csma> action: chrisW to reassign rif-raf actions on Hassan and Frank
17:07:52 <rifbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - chrisW
17:08:06 <LeoraMorgenstern> zakim, please mute me
17:08:06 <Zakim> Leora_Morgenstern should now be muted
17:08:18 <johnhall> zakim, unmute me
17:08:18 <Zakim> johnhall should no longer be muted
17:08:50 <johnhall> zakim, mute me
17:08:50 <Zakim> johnhall should now be muted
17:09:07 <GiorgosStoilos> action-144: continued
17:10:02 <GiorgosStoilos> all should contribute to the glossary
17:10:11 <LeoraMorgenstern> Only after the new year
17:10:24 <LeoraMorgenstern> Once I've down with the ontology stuff, I could volunteer -- but not now
17:10:40 <GiorgosStoilos> action-181: done
17:10:49 <csma> action: chairs to find and editor for glossary
17:10:49 <rifbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - chairs
17:10:58 <LeoraMorgenstern> s/down with/done with
17:11:01 <GiorgosStoilos> chrisW: discuss about covers
17:11:15 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?
17:11:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see Harold, Dave_Reynolds, ChrisW, Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), Mike_Dean, josb? (muted), csma, Allen_Ginsberg, Sandro (muted), Leora_Morgenstern (muted), AlexKozlenkov
17:11:18 <Zakim> ... (muted), StellaMitchell (muted), Deborah_Nichols (muted), Giorgos_Stamou, MichaelKifer (muted), igor (muted), PaulaP (muted), MarkusK (muted), johnhall (muted), Gary_Hallmark,
17:11:21 <Zakim> ... markproctor (muted), GerdWagner, Axel_Polleres
17:11:58 <agiurca> zakim, GerdWagner is really agiurca
17:11:58 <Zakim> +agiurca; got it
17:12:05 <agiurca> zakim, mute me
17:12:05 <Zakim> agiurca should now be muted
17:13:01 <GiorgosStoilos> action: allen send an email to paulV
17:13:01 <rifbot> Created ACTION-196 - Send an email to paulV [on Allen Ginsberg - due 2006-12-19].
17:13:16 <DaveReynolds> q+
17:14:29 <GiorgosStoilos> allen: need to add motivation for connection to requirement
17:15:01 <GiorgosStoilos> ..there is the issue on who to add it. Original authors or those that connected reqs to UCs?
17:15:40 <GiorgosStoilos> action: allen to clean up some motivation for UCs to reqs linkage
17:15:40 <rifbot> Created ACTION-197 - Clean up some motivation for UCs to reqs linkage [on Allen Ginsberg - due 2006-12-19].
17:15:55 <GiorgosStoilos> chrisW: current UCs in good shape
17:16:01 <ChrisW> q?
17:16:04 <csma> ack dave
17:16:05 <ChrisW> ack dave
17:16:35 <GiorgosStoilos> Dave: section speaking about rif and semantic web languages
17:16:59 <GiorgosStoilos> csma: action explain his potision on issue 12
17:17:57 <GiorgosStoilos> action: csma explain his position on issue 12 via competing text
17:17:57 <rifbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - csma
17:18:25 <GiorgosStoilos> chrisW: this explanation with go to the UC doc
17:18:25 <ChrisW> action: christian to propose text relating to issue-12 for UCR
17:18:25 <rifbot> Created ACTION-198 - Propose text relating to issue-12 for UCR [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2006-12-19].
17:18:47 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
17:18:47 <Zakim> agendum 7. "AOB" taken up [from ChrisW]
17:19:00 <GiorgosStoilos> chrisW: no AOB
17:19:01 <Zakim> -AlexKozlenkov
17:19:03 <Zakim> -Hassan_Ait-Kaci
17:19:07 <Hassan> #quit
17:19:08 <Zakim> -MarkusK
17:19:11 <Zakim> -igor
17:19:12 <Zakim> -StellaMitchell
17:19:17 <Zakim> -Deborah_Nichols
17:19:18 <sandro> RRSAgent, make record public
17:19:19 <Zakim> -josb?
17:19:20 <agiurca> -agiurca
17:19:20 <Zakim> -Allen_Ginsberg
17:19:21 <Zakim> -Axel_Polleres
17:19:21 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make minutes
17:19:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/12/12-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
17:19:22 <Zakim> -Dave_Reynolds
17:19:22 <Zakim> -Gary_Hallmark
17:19:23 <Zakim> -johnhall
17:19:23 <Zakim> -Leora_Morgenstern
17:19:25 <Zakim> -Harold
17:19:26 <Zakim> -MichaelKifer
17:19:34 <Zakim> -Mike_Dean
17:19:44 <Zakim> -markproctor
17:19:46 <Zakim> -agiurca
17:20:02 <PaulaP> bye
17:20:04 <Zakim> -PaulaP
17:20:05 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make logs public
17:21:36 <Zakim> -ChrisW
17:21:37 <Zakim> -Giorgos_Stamou
17:21:38 <Zakim> -Sandro
17:21:39 <Zakim> -csma
17:21:41 <Zakim> SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
17:21:43 <Zakim> Attendees were Harold, Dave_Reynolds, ChrisW, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, Mike_Dean, josb?, csma, Allen_Ginsberg, Sandro, Leora_Morgenstern, AlexKozlenkov, +1.914.769.aaaa, StellaMitchell,
17:21:47 <Zakim> ... Deborah_Nichols, Giorgos_Stamou, MichaelKifer, PaulaP, MarkusK, igor, johnhall, Gary_Hallmark, +44.208.995.aabb, markproctor, Axel_Polleres, agiurca
17:22:13 <ChrisW> Regrets: PaulVincent, MohamedZergaoui
17:22:17 <sandro> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:22:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/12/12-rif-minutes.html sandro
17:22:19 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make minutes
17:22:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/12/12-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
17:22:43 <ChrisW> Meeting: RIF Telecon 12 Dec 06
17:22:46 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make minutes
17:22:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/12/12-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
17:26:38 <PaulaP> PaulaP has left #rif
17:57:21 <csma> csma has left #rif
19:25:46 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rif
20:44:03 <MoZ_> MoZ_ has joined #rif