IRC log of rif on 2006-12-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:21:41 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #rif
15:21:41 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/12/12-rif-irc
15:21:45 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #rif
15:21:57 [ChrisW]: /invite zakim #rif
15:21:57 [ChrisW]: /invite rrsagent #rif
15:22:04 [ChrisW]: zakim, this will be rif
15:22:04 [Zakim]: ok, ChrisW; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 38 minutes
15:22:04 [ChrisW]: Meeting: RIF Telecon 5 Dec 06
15:22:46 [ChrisW]: Meeting: RIF Telecon 12 Dec 06
15:22:46 [ChrisW]: Chair: Chris Welty
15:22:46 [ChrisW]: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Dec/0021.html
15:23:20 [ChrisW]: Zakim, read agenda from http://www.w3.org/2006/10/17-rif-agenda.rdf
15:23:20 [Zakim]: working on it, ChrisW
15:23:22 [Zakim]: agenda+ Admin' [ChrisW]
15:23:23 [Zakim]: agendum 1 added
15:23:24 [Zakim]: agenda+ F2F [ChrisW]
15:23:25 [Zakim]: agendum 2 added
15:23:26 [Zakim]: agenda+ Liason [ChrisW]
15:23:27 [Zakim]: agendum 3 added
15:23:28 [Zakim]: agenda+ Technical Design [ChrisW]
15:23:29 [Zakim]: agendum 4 added
15:23:30 [Zakim]: agenda+ RIF-RAF [ChrisW]
15:23:31 [Zakim]: agendum 5 added
15:23:33 [Zakim]: agenda+ UCR [ChrisW]
15:23:35 [Zakim]: agendum 6 added
15:23:37 [Zakim]: agenda+ AOB [ChrisW]
15:23:38 [ChrisW]: ChrisW has changed the topic to: 12 Dec RIF agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Dec/0021.html
15:23:39 [Zakim]: agendum 7 added
15:23:41 [Zakim]: done reading agenda, ChrisW
15:45:58 [AlexKozlenkov]: AlexKozlenkov has joined #rif
15:54:38 [Harold]: Harold has joined #rif
15:55:30 [Zakim]: SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
15:55:37 [Zakim]: +[NRCC]
15:56:00 [Harold]: zakim, [NRCC] is me
15:56:00 [Zakim]: +Harold; got it
15:57:31 [mdean]: mdean has joined #rif
15:57:58 [MarkusK]: MarkusK has joined #rif
15:58:25 [DaveReynolds]: DaveReynolds has joined #rif
15:59:16 [Zakim]: +Dave_Reynolds (was Guest P7 74394)
15:59:17 [Zakim]: +Dave_Reynolds
15:59:27 [Hassan]: Hassan has joined #rif
15:59:33 [Zakim]: +[IBM]
15:59:42 [ChrisW]: zakim, [ibm] is temporarily me
15:59:42 [Zakim]: +ChrisW; got it
15:59:55 [Zakim]: +Hassan_Ait-Kaci
16:00:33 [Allen]: Allen has joined #rif
16:00:47 [josb]: josb has joined #rif
16:00:51 [csma]: csma has joined #rif
16:00:59 [Zakim]: +Mike_Dean
16:01:17 [LeoraMorgenstern]: LeoraMorgenstern has joined #rif
16:01:52 [Zakim]: +??P9
16:02:00 [StellaMitchell]: StellaMitchell has joined #rif
16:02:13 [Zakim]: +??P25
16:02:24 [csma]: zakim, ??P25 is me
16:02:24 [Zakim]: +csma; got it
16:02:33 [Zakim]: +Allen_Ginsberg
16:02:35 [patranja]: patranja has joined #rif
16:02:36 [Zakim]: +Sandro
16:02:51 [Allen]: zakim, mute me
16:02:51 [Zakim]: Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
16:03:15 [sandro]: ChrisW, I'm having phone problems today, so I might have to drop off for a few minutes.
16:03:18 [Zakim]: +Leora_Morgenstern
16:03:21 [GiorgosStoilos]: GiorgosStoilos has joined #rif
16:03:26 [LeoraMorgenstern]: zakim, please mute me
16:03:26 [Zakim]: Leora_Morgenstern should now be muted
16:03:36 [ChrisW]: zakim, who is on the phone?
16:03:36 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Harold, Dave_Reynolds, ChrisW, Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), Mike_Dean, josb? (muted), csma, Allen_Ginsberg (muted), Sandro (muted), Leora_Morgenstern (muted)
16:03:42 [Zakim]: +??P44
16:03:54 [AlexKozlenkov]: zakim, ??P44 is me
16:03:54 [Zakim]: +AlexKozlenkov; got it
16:03:54 [MichaelKifer]: MichaelKifer has joined #rif
16:03:57 [GiorgosStoilos]: GiorgosStoilos has joined #rif
16:04:03 [AlexKozlenkov]: zakim, mute me
16:04:03 [Zakim]: AlexKozlenkov should now be muted
16:04:05 [Deborah_Nichols]: Deborah_Nichols has joined #rif
16:04:14 [markproctor]: markproctor has joined #rif
16:04:19 [Zakim]: +??P45
16:04:24 [Zakim]: + +1.914.769.aaaa
16:04:44 [Zakim]: +Deborah_Nichols
16:04:56 [Zakim]: -??P45
16:04:56 [igor]: igor has joined #rif
16:05:06 [ChrisW]: zakim, who is on the phone?
16:05:06 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Harold, Dave_Reynolds, ChrisW, Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), Mike_Dean, josb? (muted), csma, Allen_Ginsberg (muted), Sandro (muted), Leora_Morgenstern (muted),
16:05:13 [Zakim]: ... AlexKozlenkov (muted), StellaMitchell, Deborah_Nichols (muted)
16:05:14 [Zakim]: +Giorgos_Stamou
16:05:18 [Zakim]: +MichaelKifer
16:05:36 [MichaelKifer]: zakim, mute me
16:05:36 [Zakim]: MichaelKifer should now be muted
16:05:44 [Zakim]: +??P53
16:05:49 [Zakim]: +??P54
16:05:49 [GiorgosStoilos]: scribenick: GiorgosStoilos
16:06:12 [ChrisW]: || FrancisMcCabe || 1/31 || 7/11 ||
16:06:19 [PaulaP]: zakim, ??P54 is me
16:06:19 [Zakim]: +PaulaP; got it
16:06:21 [ChrisW]: Scribe: Girogos Stoilos
16:06:35 [igor]: zakim, ??P54 is me
16:06:35 [Zakim]: I already had ??P54 as PaulaP, igor
16:06:45 [Zakim]: +??P57
16:06:52 [GiorgosStoilos]: december 26th telecon is canceled
16:06:57 [igor]: igor has joined #rif
16:07:13 [GiorgosStoilos]: Telecon on Jaruary 2nd will be help
16:07:31 [ChrisW]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Dec/att-0008/minutes-12-05-06.html
16:07:41 [igor]: 41#
16:07:50 [GiorgosStoilos]: topic: 5/12 minutes
16:07:58 [PaulaP]: q?
16:08:00 [GiorgosStoilos]: accepted minutes 5/12
16:08:16 [ChrisW]: zakim, next item
16:08:17 [Zakim]: agendum 1. "Admin'" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:08:22 [igor]: zakim, ??P53 is me
16:08:22 [Zakim]: +igor; got it
16:08:23 [ChrisW]: zakim, close agendum 1
16:08:23 [Zakim]: agendum 1, Admin', closed
16:08:24 [Zakim]: I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:08:25 [Zakim]: 2. F2F [from ChrisW]
16:08:25 [ChrisW]: zakim, next item
16:08:25 [Zakim]: agendum 2. "F2F" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:08:32 [igor]: zakim, mute me
16:08:32 [Zakim]: igor should now be muted
16:08:34 [GiorgosStoilos]: topic: F2F5
16:08:42 [sandro]: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/38457/f2f5-schedule/results
16:09:04 [johnhall]: johnhall has joined #rif
16:09:27 [GiorgosStoilos]: chrisW: no oposition for three days meeting
16:09:35 [Hassan]: Where is the next F2F meeting taking place?
16:09:42 [Allen]: zakim,unmute me
16:09:42 [Zakim]: Allen_Ginsberg should no longer be muted
16:09:46 [GiorgosStoilos]: ...might be good for work, will try
16:10:11 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
16:10:23 [agiurca]: agiurca has joined #rif
16:10:24 [johnhall]: zakim, ipcaller is me
16:10:24 [Zakim]: +johnhall; got it
16:10:32 [Zakim]: +Gary_Hallmark
16:10:33 [johnhall]: zakim,mute me
16:10:34 [Zakim]: johnhall should now be muted
16:10:44 [sandro]: ACTION Sandro: set up WBS registration form for F2F5
16:11:09 [ChrisW]: zakim, next item
16:11:09 [Zakim]: agendum 3. "Liason" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:11:13 [sandro]: rifbot, test?
16:11:19 [Allen]: zakim, mute me
16:11:19 [Zakim]: Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
16:11:22 [Zakim]: + +44.208.995.aabb
16:11:23 [johnhall]: sbvr - none
16:11:26 [sandro]: rifbot, help
16:11:26 [rifbot]: See http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/ for help (use the IRC bot link)
16:11:32 [ChrisW]: zakim, next item
16:11:32 [Zakim]: agendum 3 was just opened, ChrisW
16:11:38 [ChrisW]: zakim, close item 3
16:11:38 [Zakim]: agendum 3, Liason, closed
16:11:39 [Zakim]: I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:11:39 [ChrisW]: zakim, next item
16:11:41 [Zakim]: 4. Technical Design [from ChrisW]
16:11:42 [GiorgosStoilos]: chrisW: nothing to report on liason
16:11:42 [Zakim]: agendum 4. "Technical Design" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:11:44 [Zakim]: +agiurca
16:11:52 [agiurca]: zakim, mute me
16:11:52 [csma]: q?
16:11:53 [Zakim]: agiurca should now be muted
16:12:14 [LeoraMorgenstern]: zakim, unmute me
16:12:14 [Zakim]: Leora_Morgenstern should no longer be muted
16:12:47 [ChrisW]: zakim, who is on the phone?
16:12:47 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Harold, Dave_Reynolds, ChrisW, Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), Mike_Dean, josb? (muted), csma, Allen_Ginsberg (muted), Sandro (muted), Leora_Morgenstern, AlexKozlenkov
16:12:50 [Zakim]: ... (muted), StellaMitchell (muted), Deborah_Nichols (muted), Giorgos_Stamou, MichaelKifer (muted), igor (muted), PaulaP (muted), MarkusK (muted), johnhall (muted), Gary_Hallmark,
16:12:52 [Zakim]: ... +44.208.995.aabb, agiurca (muted)
16:13:43 [csma]: zakim, aabb is markp
16:13:43 [Zakim]: +markp; got it
16:14:01 [csma]: zakim, markp is markproctor
16:14:01 [Zakim]: +markproctor; got it
16:14:05 [sandro]: markproctor, you don't need to read the Telecon docs right now. Later is fine.
16:14:13 [markproctor]: ok
16:14:17 [GiorgosStoilos]: action-186: done
16:14:21 [markproctor]: so is there anything I need to do now? or am I ok?
16:14:33 [GiorgosStoilos]: action-182: continued
16:15:04 [sandro]: You're okay now, Mark. (csma entered the line "zakim, aabb is markp", which took care of it.)
16:15:39 [GiorgosStoilos]: action-188: open
16:15:46 [GiorgosStoilos]: action-192: done
16:16:08 [GiorgosStoilos]: action-193: done
16:16:22 [DaveReynolds]: I downloaded it successfully
16:16:34 [igor]: +
16:16:36 [igor]: 1
16:17:17 [MichaelKifer]: zakim, unmute me
16:17:17 [Zakim]: MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
16:17:18 [AlexKozlenkov]: I can't read that document
16:17:19 [GiorgosStoilos]: chrisW: talk about sort in the syntax
16:18:02 [GiorgosStoilos]: chrisW: is sorted syntax clear?
16:18:04 [ChrisW]: zakim, who is on the phone?
16:18:04 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Harold, Dave_Reynolds, ChrisW, Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), Mike_Dean, josb? (muted), csma, Allen_Ginsberg (muted), Sandro (muted), Leora_Morgenstern, AlexKozlenkov
16:18:08 [Zakim]: ... (muted), StellaMitchell (muted), Deborah_Nichols (muted), Giorgos_Stamou, MichaelKifer, igor (muted), PaulaP (muted), MarkusK (muted), johnhall (muted), Gary_Hallmark,
16:18:10 [ChrisW]: zakim, who is talking?
16:18:11 [Zakim]: ... markproctor, agiurca (muted)
16:18:20 [Zakim]: ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: csma (61%), MichaelKifer (27%)
16:18:21 [GaryHallmark]: GaryHallmark has joined #rif
16:18:36 [GiorgosStoilos]: csma: michaels example not clear
16:19:07 [markproctor]: zakim, mute me
16:19:07 [Zakim]: markproctor should now be muted
16:20:10 [Harold]: Christian, sort subsumption definition could be reused from external taxonomies, e.g. out there in RDFS or OWL.
16:20:27 [GiorgosStoilos]: csma: how does it relate to hasan's paper?
16:20:41 [sandro]: (I'm baffled at the idea that an abstract syntax could be readable -- only concrete syntaxes can be written down -- but I'd rather not go into it now.)
16:20:45 [GiorgosStoilos]: ...the ILOG use of sorts
16:20:50 [igor]: igor has joined #rif
16:20:51 [Hassan]: q+
16:21:00 [DaveReynolds]: +1 to Sandro
16:21:11 [GiorgosStoilos]: michael: it is almost the same, difference in the sloted syntax
16:21:46 [Hassan]: q-
16:21:47 [MichaelKifer]: zakim, mute me
16:21:47 [Zakim]: MichaelKifer should now be muted
16:21:52 [GiorgosStoilos]: hassan: there was a missunderstanding, michael will provide details about our discussion on the issue
16:22:04 [Harold]: Sandro, I think there still is a terminological confusion about abstract syntax and human-oriented syntax.
16:22:06 [MichaelKifer]: zakim, unmute me
16:22:06 [Zakim]: MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
16:22:28 [sandro]: So it would seem, Harold. :-)
16:22:38 [sandro]: (caused by WebOnt, I suspect.)
16:22:45 [GiorgosStoilos]: michael: need a syntax for specifying the sort. In XML you can do it by tricks
16:23:05 [Harold]: Your remark applies to abstract syntax, Michael meant human-oriented syntax.
16:23:09 [Hassan]: s/RIF/RIF/
16:23:14 [GiorgosStoilos]: michael: we have to work out how to do it
16:23:15 [Hassan]: s/RIG/RIF/
16:23:21 [MichaelKifer]: zakim, mute me
16:23:21 [Zakim]: MichaelKifer should now be muted
16:23:52 [GiorgosStoilos]: chrisW: is webizing of sorts clear now?
16:23:56 [sandro]: zakim, unmute me
16:23:56 [Zakim]: Sandro should no longer be muted
16:24:24 [GiorgosStoilos]: sandro: Don't understand it yet. Need to see complete document
16:25:06 [GiorgosStoilos]: sandro: it is heading to the right direction but need to see details
16:25:36 [GiorgosStoilos]: chrisW: slotted syntax
16:25:40 [MichaelKifer]: zakim, unmute me
16:25:40 [Zakim]: MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
16:26:14 [GiorgosStoilos]: michael: haven't finalized it, there was a problem out of the F2F
16:26:14 [ChrisW]: q?
16:26:16 [LeoraMorgenstern]: zakim, mute me
16:26:16 [Zakim]: Leora_Morgenstern should now be muted
16:26:23 [GiorgosStoilos]: michael: many semantics
16:26:49 [GiorgosStoilos]: michael: syntax the same but semantics are different
16:27:04 [GiorgosStoilos]: ...should identify minimal syntax, but is difficult
16:27:06 [sandro]: (To be clear about my issue on Webizing --- I don't see how webizing affects the semantics. It's just allowing identifiers to have weird characters in them.)
16:27:38 [GiorgosStoilos]: ...come out with nucleus and propose different slotted syntaxes
16:27:46 [Hassan]: q+
16:28:02 [GiorgosStoilos]: michael: we could provide options of syntax for people to use
16:28:45 [GiorgosStoilos]: ...one example is syntax in RuleML and another in Hassan's proposal
16:29:00 [GiorgosStoilos]: ...another one can be found in F-Logic
16:29:18 [GiorgosStoilos]: ...in F-Logic is only applied to atomic formulas
16:29:54 [GiorgosStoilos]: the syntaxes are similar but the meaning different
16:29:59 [MichaelKifer]: zakim, mute me
16:29:59 [Zakim]: MichaelKifer should now be muted
16:30:02 [GiorgosStoilos]: hassan: Agree with michael
16:30:08 [agiurca]: kakim, unmute me
16:30:17 [agiurca]: zakim, unmute me
16:30:17 [Zakim]: agiurca should no longer be muted
16:30:18 [GiorgosStoilos]: hassan: but common syntax could be possible
16:30:35 [agiurca]: q+
16:30:52 [MichaelKifer]: zakim, unmute me
16:30:52 [Zakim]: MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
16:31:02 [GiorgosStoilos]: hassan: we discussed about one syntax with different semantics (interpretations) we michael over main
16:31:14 [GiorgosStoilos]: s/main/mail
16:31:53 [GiorgosStoilos]: hassan: different interpretations regarding different levels (e.g. concepts vs. relations)
16:32:05 [AxelPolleres]: AxelPolleres has joined #rif
16:32:17 [sandro]: q+ to ask if the reuse-with-different semantics that Hassan is talking about applies to whole documents, or only to fragments?
16:32:38 [Hassan]: q-
16:32:45 [Zakim]: +Axel_Polleres
16:33:19 [GiorgosStoilos]: michael: need 3 different dialects, if we use different dialects would not mean we understand each other even if syntax is the same
16:33:29 [Harold]: The issue that came up after F2F4 is, how, then, would we handle this?
16:33:31 [Harold]: p(a,b) does not unify with p(a).
16:33:35 [sandro]: q-
16:33:59 [Harold]: Hence, with our shortcut convention,
16:34:00 [Harold]: p{1->a,2->b} could not unify with p{1->a}.
16:34:42 [GiorgosStoilos]: michaerl: this could be part of the CORE document. Would be able to exchange rules
16:35:03 [agiurca]: At present we are not concerned with unification
16:35:39 [Harold]: But the subsumption semantics would make them unify.
16:36:29 [GiorgosStoilos]: hassan: might agree on normative but not on syntax
16:36:31 [sandro]: This whole "we could have multiple dialects in core" sounds wrong.
16:36:57 [sandro]: ChrisW, you have people on the queue.
16:37:29 [GiorgosStoilos]: csma: can't we agree on 1 syntax, but which can be interpreted differently
16:37:36 [Harold]: We could have 'rest' variables: p(a,b) does unify with p(a | X).
16:37:49 [Harold]: p{1->a,2->b} could unify with p{1->a | X}.
16:38:30 [GiorgosStoilos]: michael: if you agree on syntax you have to also specify semantics to exchange
16:39:52 [GiorgosStoilos]: michael: harold's example might not cover c-terms
16:40:08 [sandro]: q?
16:41:18 [GiorgosStoilos]: hassan: subsumption is too much for minimal core
16:42:46 [GiorgosStoilos]: hassan: you can close your signature and have the same semantics as individuals
16:43:03 [agiurca]: john{age->40} what is the predicate ?
16:43:08 [sandro]: ChrisW? Are you purposely ignoring the queue or not paying attention to IRC?
16:43:16 [GiorgosStoilos]: hassan: it is important for exchange
16:43:29 [Harold]: We could 'encapsulate' slotted terms into unary atoms: p({1->a,2->b}) could unify with p({1->a | X}).
16:43:56 [Harold]: So, we would not need slotted atoms, directly.
16:44:01 [GiorgosStoilos]: hassan: If I exchange with someone if we don't agree on idividuals we won't be able to exchange
16:44:55 [GiorgosStoilos]: hassan: if we want a hard core we might not want subsumption
16:45:01 [Harold]: Not building in subsumption could be expressed syntactically:
16:45:06 [ChrisW]: q?
16:45:14 [Harold]: Not allowing rest variables.
16:45:18 [sandro]: zakim, agiurca is GerdWagner
16:45:18 [Zakim]: +GerdWagner; got it
16:45:30 [ChrisW]: q?
16:45:32 [MichaelKifer]: zakim, mute me
16:45:32 [Zakim]: MichaelKifer should now be muted
16:45:33 [ChrisW]: ack
16:45:35 [ChrisW]: ack ag
16:45:36 [GiorgosStoilos]: gerd: the quetion is what is the use of a slot. It is a property value
16:45:39 [MichaelKifer]: zakim, unmute me
16:45:39 [Zakim]: MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
16:46:07 [GiorgosStoilos]: michael: so you mean like F-Logic and RDF
16:46:18 [AxelPolleres]: in some languages properties/attributes are global, in some not... does this play here?
16:46:33 [GiorgosStoilos]: michael: my understaning is that cterms do types
16:46:40 [GiorgosStoilos]: hassan: they do both
16:47:06 [GiorgosStoilos]: michael: the use of slots in RuleML is not the same
16:47:18 [csma]: q+
16:47:24 [GiorgosStoilos]: hassan: agree with Gerd
16:47:40 [GiorgosStoilos]: Gerd: that is what we should capture in CORE
16:47:50 [csma]: q?
16:48:15 [Harold]: Axel, normally slot names are local, with webizing they could be made global.
16:48:18 [csma]: q?
16:48:41 [GiorgosStoilos]: Gerd: slots have the meaning og properties
16:49:13 [GiorgosStoilos]: csma: hassan you call slots as features in your paper
16:50:02 [sandro]: (writing down the core thing I just grokked) MichaelKifer: In the relational model, the identity is established by the tuple of property values -- -unlike in F-Logic, etc.
16:51:18 [agiurca]: set valued slots in flogic john[son->>{brian, adrian}]
16:51:59 [ChrisW]: ack csma
16:52:00 [csma]: q-
16:52:01 [MichaelKifer]: zakim, mute me
16:52:01 [Zakim]: MichaelKifer should now be muted
16:52:02 [Hassan]: q-
16:52:07 [Harold]: q+
16:52:12 [GiorgosStoilos]: chrisW: I prefer a single CORE without dialects
16:53:00 [Harold]: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/charter#xml-syntax
16:53:06 [agiurca]: the syntax (Con -> Term) does not work as a slot!
16:53:11 [Hassan]: Fine with ChrisW to have a "weak" core as long as it is extensible and does not lock us in some incompatibe design
16:53:16 [Harold]: In order to allow interoperability with RDF and object-oriented systems, the syntax must support named arguments (also called "role" or "slot" names), allowing n-ary facts, rules, and queries to be provided through property/value interfaces.
16:53:17 [MichaelKifer]: zakim, unmute me
16:53:17 [Zakim]: MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
16:53:45 [GiorgosStoilos]: harold: agree with chrisW
16:54:24 [GiorgosStoilos]: michael: it is not clear to produce CORE compatible with all 3 directions
16:54:36 [GiorgosStoilos]: harold: only need the minimum not all 3
16:54:47 [Hassan]: q+
16:54:52 [GiorgosStoilos]: michael: does this mean intersection? might not be possible
16:55:24 [GiorgosStoilos]: harold: we will work on it. Send something on Monday
16:55:44 [ChrisW]: ack har
16:55:46 [ChrisW]: ack has
16:55:52 [MichaelKifer]: zakim, mute me
16:55:52 [Zakim]: MichaelKifer should now be muted
16:56:00 [agiurca]: zakim, mute me
16:56:00 [Zakim]: sorry, agiurca, I do not see a party named 'agiurca'
16:56:17 [GiorgosStoilos]: chrisW: summing up will have a new version by Monday
16:57:02 [GiorgosStoilos]: csma: how order sorted terms related to constraints?
16:57:56 [GiorgosStoilos]: hassan: want to see how to map them to constraints
16:58:27 [Harold]: Christian, order-sorted logics use a sort lattice, which could come from RDFS subClassOf taxonomies or corresponding OWL-DL ontologies.
16:59:41 [Harold]: So, RIF can reuse light-weight ontologies that are out there in RDFS and OWL.
16:59:46 [GiorgosStoilos]: csma: it does not say anything about interchanging between different datamodels
16:59:57 [GiorgosStoilos]: hassan: it shits the level of interchange
17:00:25 [GiorgosStoilos]: s/shits/shifts
17:00:36 [GiorgosStoilos]: :(
17:01:53 [GiorgosStoilos]: chrisW: we should talks about designs goals
17:02:04 [ChrisW]: zakim, next item
17:02:04 [Zakim]: agendum 5. "RIF-RAF" taken up [from ChrisW]
17:02:42 [LeoraMorgenstern]: zakim, unmute me
17:02:42 [Zakim]: Leora_Morgenstern should no longer be muted
17:02:52 [LeoraMorgenstern]: q+
17:03:18 [csma]: ack leora
17:03:22 [GiorgosStoilos]: chrisW: we have some actions from the f2f are they finished
17:03:42 [GiorgosStoilos]: leora: some progress but don't think are completed
17:04:00 [Allen]: I haven't done it
17:04:20 [GiorgosStoilos]: csma: these are low priority actions
17:04:45 [GiorgosStoilos]: chrisW: what would be a reasonable deadline?
17:05:22 [GiorgosStoilos]: chrisw: end of December for actions of axel and paula?
17:05:25 [PaulaP]: I'm not sure
17:05:26 [GiorgosStoilos]: axel: OK
17:05:29 [PaulaP]: I'll try
17:05:50 [PaulaP]: me zakim, unmute me
17:05:58 [PaulaP]: ok
17:06:22 [Hassan]: Yes - thanks ! :-)
17:06:28 [Allen]: zakim, unmute me
17:06:28 [Zakim]: Allen_Ginsberg should no longer be muted
17:06:34 [GiorgosStoilos]: chrisw: axel and leora might free hassan from rifraf
17:07:11 [AxelPolleres]: remarkfrom my side: for drafting a "document" i would really like to have all the input. I hope to have time to work for it next week. I can see how far I get and whether I can take over sec 2.
17:07:25 [AxelPolleres]: but this is no promise I want to make now.
17:07:27 [GiorgosStoilos]: chrisw: does anyone want to take ontologizing rifraf section two
17:07:48 [GiorgosStoilos]: action: chrisW to reasign rifraf actions
17:07:48 [rifbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - chrisW
17:07:50 [ChrisW]: zakim, next item
17:07:50 [Zakim]: agendum 6. "UCR" taken up [from ChrisW]
17:07:52 [csma]: action: chrisW to reassign rif-raf actions on Hassan and Frank
17:07:52 [rifbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - chrisW
17:08:06 [LeoraMorgenstern]: zakim, please mute me
17:08:06 [Zakim]: Leora_Morgenstern should now be muted
17:08:18 [johnhall]: zakim, unmute me
17:08:18 [Zakim]: johnhall should no longer be muted
17:08:50 [johnhall]: zakim, mute me
17:08:50 [Zakim]: johnhall should now be muted
17:09:07 [GiorgosStoilos]: action-144: continued
17:10:02 [GiorgosStoilos]: all should contribute to the glossary
17:10:11 [LeoraMorgenstern]: Only after the new year
17:10:24 [LeoraMorgenstern]: Once I've down with the ontology stuff, I could volunteer -- but not now
17:10:40 [GiorgosStoilos]: action-181: done
17:10:49 [csma]: action: chairs to find and editor for glossary
17:10:49 [rifbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - chairs
17:10:58 [LeoraMorgenstern]: s/down with/done with
17:11:01 [GiorgosStoilos]: chrisW: discuss about covers
17:11:15 [ChrisW]: zakim, who is on the phone?
17:11:15 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Harold, Dave_Reynolds, ChrisW, Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), Mike_Dean, josb? (muted), csma, Allen_Ginsberg, Sandro (muted), Leora_Morgenstern (muted), AlexKozlenkov
17:11:18 [Zakim]: ... (muted), StellaMitchell (muted), Deborah_Nichols (muted), Giorgos_Stamou, MichaelKifer (muted), igor (muted), PaulaP (muted), MarkusK (muted), johnhall (muted), Gary_Hallmark,
17:11:21 [Zakim]: ... markproctor (muted), GerdWagner, Axel_Polleres
17:11:58 [agiurca]: zakim, GerdWagner is really agiurca
17:11:58 [Zakim]: +agiurca; got it
17:12:05 [agiurca]: zakim, mute me
17:12:05 [Zakim]: agiurca should now be muted
17:13:01 [GiorgosStoilos]: action: allen send an email to paulV
17:13:01 [rifbot]: Created ACTION-196 - Send an email to paulV [on Allen Ginsberg - due 2006-12-19].
17:13:16 [DaveReynolds]: q+
17:14:29 [GiorgosStoilos]: allen: need to add motivation for connection to requirement
17:15:01 [GiorgosStoilos]: ..there is the issue on who to add it. Original authors or those that connected reqs to UCs?
17:15:40 [GiorgosStoilos]: action: allen to clean up some motivation for UCs to reqs linkage
17:15:40 [rifbot]: Created ACTION-197 - Clean up some motivation for UCs to reqs linkage [on Allen Ginsberg - due 2006-12-19].
17:15:55 [GiorgosStoilos]: chrisW: current UCs in good shape
17:16:01 [ChrisW]: q?
17:16:04 [csma]: ack dave
17:16:05 [ChrisW]: ack dave
17:16:35 [GiorgosStoilos]: Dave: section speaking about rif and semantic web languages
17:16:59 [GiorgosStoilos]: csma: action explain his potision on issue 12
17:17:57 [GiorgosStoilos]: action: csma explain his position on issue 12 via competing text
17:17:57 [rifbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - csma
17:18:25 [GiorgosStoilos]: chrisW: this explanation with go to the UC doc
17:18:25 [ChrisW]: action: christian to propose text relating to issue-12 for UCR
17:18:25 [rifbot]: Created ACTION-198 - Propose text relating to issue-12 for UCR [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2006-12-19].
17:18:47 [ChrisW]: zakim, next item
17:18:47 [Zakim]: agendum 7. "AOB" taken up [from ChrisW]
17:19:00 [GiorgosStoilos]: chrisW: no AOB
17:19:01 [Zakim]: -AlexKozlenkov
17:19:03 [Zakim]: -Hassan_Ait-Kaci
17:19:07 [Hassan]: #quit
17:19:08 [Zakim]: -MarkusK
17:19:11 [Zakim]: -igor
17:19:12 [Zakim]: -StellaMitchell
17:19:17 [Zakim]: -Deborah_Nichols
17:19:18 [sandro]: RRSAgent, make record public
17:19:19 [Zakim]: -josb?
17:19:20 [agiurca]: -agiurca
17:19:20 [Zakim]: -Allen_Ginsberg
17:19:21 [Zakim]: -Axel_Polleres
17:19:21 [ChrisW]: rrsagent, make minutes
17:19:21 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/12/12-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
17:19:22 [Zakim]: -Dave_Reynolds
17:19:22 [Zakim]: -Gary_Hallmark
17:19:23 [Zakim]: -johnhall
17:19:23 [Zakim]: -Leora_Morgenstern
17:19:25 [Zakim]: -Harold
17:19:26 [Zakim]: -MichaelKifer
17:19:34 [Zakim]: -Mike_Dean
17:19:44 [Zakim]: -markproctor
17:19:46 [Zakim]: -agiurca
17:20:02 [PaulaP]: bye
17:20:04 [Zakim]: -PaulaP
17:20:05 [ChrisW]: rrsagent, make logs public
17:21:36 [Zakim]: -ChrisW
17:21:37 [Zakim]: -Giorgos_Stamou
17:21:38 [Zakim]: -Sandro
17:21:39 [Zakim]: -csma
17:21:41 [Zakim]: SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
17:21:43 [Zakim]: Attendees were Harold, Dave_Reynolds, ChrisW, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, Mike_Dean, josb?, csma, Allen_Ginsberg, Sandro, Leora_Morgenstern, AlexKozlenkov, +1.914.769.aaaa, StellaMitchell,
17:21:47 [Zakim]: ... Deborah_Nichols, Giorgos_Stamou, MichaelKifer, PaulaP, MarkusK, igor, johnhall, Gary_Hallmark, +44.208.995.aabb, markproctor, Axel_Polleres, agiurca
17:22:13 [ChrisW]: Regrets: PaulVincent, MohamedZergaoui
17:22:17 [sandro]: RRSAgent, make minutes
17:22:17 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/12/12-rif-minutes.html sandro
17:22:19 [ChrisW]: rrsagent, make minutes
17:22:19 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/12/12-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
17:22:43 [ChrisW]: Meeting: RIF Telecon 12 Dec 06
17:22:46 [ChrisW]: rrsagent, make minutes
17:22:46 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/12/12-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
17:26:38 [PaulaP]: PaulaP has left #rif
17:57:21 [csma]: csma has left #rif
19:25:46 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #rif
20:44:03 [MoZ_]: MoZ_ has joined #rif