IRC log of ua on 2006-12-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

18:53:45 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/12/07-ua-irc
18:54:06 [jallan]
meeting: UAWG teleconference
18:54:15 [jallan]
Chair: Jim Allan
18:54:22 [jallan]
Scribe: JR
18:56:02 [jallan]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2006OctDec/0034.html
19:00:19 [JR]
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19:00:36 [parente]
parente has joined #ua
19:01:20 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has now started
19:01:23 [Zakim]
+Jim_Allan
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+??P13
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+[IBM]
19:01:45 [JR]
Zakim, P13 is JR
19:01:45 [Zakim]
sorry, JR, I do not recognize a party named 'P13'
19:01:52 [jallan]
zakim, [IBM] is Parente
19:01:52 [Zakim]
+Parente; got it
19:01:52 [JR]
Zakim, ??P13 is JR
19:01:53 [Zakim]
+JR; got it
19:04:35 [JR]
PP: Mentions that pre-querying links can cause javascript actions these days so its problematic.
19:04:59 [JR]
JAL 10.5, 10.6, 10.7 use JA and JR messages
19:05:03 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
19:05:22 [JR]
Topic: 11.1 Current user input configuration (P1)
19:05:32 [jallan]
zakim, [IBM] is cklaws
19:05:32 [Zakim]
+cklaws; got it
19:05:40 [cklaws]
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19:06:34 [JR]
PP mentions that he can't see UA guidelines at the moment since his IP (IBM's) is temporarily banned due to high activity from W3 site
19:07:18 [JR]
CL: CL also had 10.5 comment
19:07:37 [JR]
JA: 11.1 all about browser
19:09:01 [JR]
JA: If UA allows user to change to keystrokes then does 11.1 mean updating underlining etc
19:10:20 [JR]
CL: Usually don't change accesskeys, change short cuts
19:11:07 [JR]
JR: Yes, but 11.4 seems to imply ability to change UA accesskeys
19:11:33 [JR]
CL: This whole section is a problem because documentation doesn't change
19:12:49 [JR]
JA: Right- also need ability to return keystrokes to defaults
19:13:15 [JR]
JA: 11.1 is straightforward - need ability to findout what current controls are
19:13:37 [JR]
Scribe: JR
19:14:19 [JR]
JA: But we do need to emphasize that 11.1 does cover case when Author has changed bindings + way to get back to default
19:14:53 [JR]
Action JA: Make default (doing more #2) into a normative
19:15:30 [jallan]
JA action should be for 11.3
19:16:29 [JR]
JA: ALso in 11.3, need another nom inclusdion - if user able to override, must update (meet 11.1)
19:16:48 [JR]
Action JA: in 11.3, need another nom inclusdion - if user able to override, must update (meet 11.1)
19:17:19 [JR]
Topic: 11.2 Current author input configuration (P2)
19:18:45 [JR]
JA: Likes JR's idea of "author-specified" input configuration
19:18:52 [JR]
JA: Any AJAX impact?
19:20:06 [JR]
PP: In Gmail they look for global keystrokes
19:20:43 [JR]
CL: Onkeypress actions etc.
19:21:31 [JR]
JA: IN summary, outside of accesskey other keybindings are possible with event handlers
19:22:10 [JR]
JR: 11.2 seems to cover this
19:22:25 [JR]
CL: Well function can do anything...
19:23:14 [JR]
CL: Actual keystrokes used depends on function which is called by any keypress...
19:25:05 [JR]
JR: How are keys documented?
19:25:12 [JR]
CL: Would have to go and study this
19:25:15 [jallan]
JR: so what do we do with this, accesskey has issues. There are ways with javascript for the author to provide keybindings
19:25:35 [JR]
PP: ex. Gmail just has a help page of keys
19:26:00 [jallan]
CL: this seems more of a WCAG requirement
19:26:30 [jallan]
JR: Right the author needs to supply the use with a listing of keyboard bindings
19:27:19 [JR]
CL: Unless there is a way to expose keys used in a way like accesskey...
19:27:56 [JR]
Action JA: 11.2 has an AJAX issue that keystrokes are not available.
19:28:58 [JR]
Action CL: Write message for Jim to send to PF on issue of how UA might get at AJAX keystrokes.
19:29:14 [jallan]
action: JA to write to WCAG about author keybinding in javascript functions (ala gmail)
19:30:26 [JR]
Topic: 11.3 Allow override of bindings (P2)
19:30:33 [JR]
Covered under 11.1 discussion
19:30:42 [JR]
Topic: 11.4 Single-key access (P2)
19:31:55 [JR]
JR: Phrasing of norm req #1 a bit ambiguous
19:32:50 [JR]
JR: This was new wording: ""Allow the user to override any binding in the user agent
19:32:50 [JR]
default keyboard configuration with a NEW binding to either a key plus
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modifier keys or to a single key, PROVIDED UNUSED KEYS ARE AVAILABLE."
19:32:51 [JR]
"
19:33:02 [JR]
JA: But not sure browser deal with this.
19:34:12 [JR]
JA: Does software usually check for keyboard conflicts.
19:34:58 [JR]
CL: Probably check when changing them
19:36:26 [JR]
CL: Prob true within override set...but alt+...would be a prob
19:36:42 [JR]
CL: So in general don't use alt+ keys for rebinding
19:37:57 [JR]
CL: Also don't allow F1 etc
19:38:50 [JR]
JA: Do we need to say check for conflicts?
19:39:03 [JR]
CL: Yes - don't assign to funvtions to the same key
19:39:55 [JR]
Action JA: Think about the check for conflicts when rebinding keys
19:40:45 [JR]
CL: Usually single key access requires a particular mode
19:41:38 [JR]
JA: In opera there are lots of letter keys for navigation etc
19:43:00 [JR]
JA: Ordering is a prob...11.5 should go first
19:44:27 [JR]
CL: Split out because one big checkpoint would be hard to meet
19:45:27 [JR]
CL: 11.4 point to 11.5 saying that the list of 11.5 things needs to be done with single key
19:46:41 [JR]
JA: OK to review...
19:47:34 [JR]
JA: Other than key conflicts on rebing anything else?
19:48:06 [JR]
Topic: 11.6 User profiles (P2)
19:49:49 [JR]
CL: Some people claim conformance on multi-user login OS
19:50:19 [JR]
CL: The user name you login as saves the profile.
19:51:05 [JR]
JA: Eudora has "different personalities"
19:52:12 [JR]
JR: There are cases of people with disabilities that change energy levels throughout day etc and who benefit from profiles they can change without logging in
19:52:38 [JR]
CL: There is a "tech" to change rapidly but it is not normative
19:53:30 [JR]
CL: Portable profiles should be a tech?
19:54:18 [JR]
ACtion JA: Add a technique on the importing, exporting of setting
19:55:12 [JR]
JR: Maybe mention Web4all type systems
19:55:26 [JR]
CL: Easier if all the AT's supported those functions
19:55:47 [JR]
Topic: 11.7 Tool bar configuration (P3)
19:57:23 [JR]
JR describes ATAG approach
19:57:43 [jallan]
JR: in ATAG what about pallets, etc. need to have user control of what is it and where it is located.
19:57:57 [JR]
JA: But what about Add on toolbars like UIllinois extension toolbar
19:58:07 [JR]
CL: Plugin would have to provide that
19:59:11 [JR]
IE and Firefox can make plugin bars in/visible
19:59:33 [JR]
PP: Some toolbars you can right click on to get more config
20:02:57 [JR]
All: Discussion of plugin toolbars (UIllinois, Google, etc.)
20:03:16 [JR]
JA: Accessibility toolbar from austalia is completely accessible
20:04:12 [JR]
Action JA: in 11.7 plugin toolbars have to provide their own accessibility functionality
20:04:36 [JR]
Topic: January meeting
20:05:04 [JR]
JA: THere is a request from PF etc. for a test case meeting on Wednesday
20:05:15 [JR]
JA: Coming from Al Gilman
20:06:25 [JR]
JA: I think it will happen
20:06:47 [JR]
JA: Even if it is just a joint meeting between PF and UA
20:07:01 [JR]
JA: Next week we will do #12
20:07:45 [JR]
JA: Charter is also due so we'll get on that too
20:07:54 [Zakim]
-Parente
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-cklaws
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-Jim_Allan
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-JR
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WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has ended
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Attendees were Jim_Allan, Parente, JR, cklaws
20:18:57 [JR]
RRSAgent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/12/07-ua-minutes.html JR
20:19:02 [JR]
RRSAgent, set logs public
20:20:03 [JR]
Zakim, bye
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Zakim has left #ua
20:20:08 [JR]
RRSAgent, bye
20:20:08 [RRSAgent]
I see 8 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/07-ua-actions.rdf :
20:20:08 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JA to Make default (doing more #2) into a normative [1]
20:20:08 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/07-ua-irc#T19-14-53
20:20:08 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JA to in 11.3, need another nom inclusdion - if user able to override, must update (meet 11.1) [2]
20:20:08 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/07-ua-irc#T19-16-48
20:20:08 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JA to 11.2 has an AJAX issue that keystrokes are not available. [3]
20:20:08 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/07-ua-irc#T19-27-56
20:20:08 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: CL to Write message for Jim to send to PF on issue of how UA might get at AJAX keystrokes. [4]
20:20:08 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/07-ua-irc#T19-28-58
20:20:08 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JA to write to WCAG about author keybinding in javascript functions (ala gmail) [5]
20:20:08 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/07-ua-irc#T19-29-14
20:20:08 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JA to Think about the check for conflicts when rebinding keys [6]
20:20:08 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/07-ua-irc#T19-39-55
20:20:08 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JA to Add a technique on the importing, exporting of setting [7]
20:20:08 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/07-ua-irc#T19-54-18
20:20:08 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JA to in 11.7 plugin toolbars have to provide their own accessibility functionality [8]
20:20:08 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/07-ua-irc#T20-04-12