14:39:24 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #er
14:39:24 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/12/06-er-irc
14:39:36 <shadi> zakim, this will be ert
14:39:36 <Zakim> ok, shadi; I see WAI_ERTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 21 minutes
14:39:43 <shadi> meeting: ERT WG
14:39:46 <shadi> chair: Shadi
14:39:55 <shadi> regrets: CarlosV, Daniela
14:40:59 <shadi> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2006Dec/0009.html
14:42:31 <shadi> agenda+ updated HTTP Vocabulary in RDF
14:42:45 <shadi> agenda+ proposal for "Content" class
14:42:57 <shadi> agenda+ addressing security/privacy in EARL
14:43:07 <shadi> agenda+ addressing warnings in EARL
14:57:15 <JibberJim> JibberJim has joined #er
14:57:55 <JibberJim> I'm scribing :(
14:59:19 <shadi> thx jim!
14:59:33 <Zakim> WAI_ERTWG()10:00AM has now started
14:59:41 <Zakim> +Klaus/Johannes/Thomas
15:00:01 <JohannesK> JohannesK has joined #er
15:00:04 <Zakim> +Shadi
15:00:15 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:00:36 <JibberJim> Zakim, IPcaller is me
15:00:36 <Zakim> +JibberJim; got it
15:00:44 <JibberJim> now muted, can here you fine
15:02:23 <ChrisR> ChrisR has joined #er
15:03:09 <CarlosI> CarlosI has joined #er
15:03:26 <JibberJim> No!
15:04:12 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/2006/02/mwi-test-charter
15:04:16 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:04:33 <shadi> zakim, ipcaller is really Chris
15:04:33 <Zakim> +Chris; got it
15:04:52 <davidr> davidr has joined #er
15:05:22 <Zakim> +??P24
15:05:31 <JibberJim> SAZ: If anyone is interested in the MWI test description area, please get in touch with Shadi
15:05:44 <shadi> zakim, ??p24 is really David
15:05:44 <Zakim> +David; got it
15:06:02 <shadi> scribe: Jim
15:06:07 <shadi> scribenick: JibberJim
15:06:21 <Zakim> +berrueta
15:06:24 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 1
15:06:24 <Zakim> agendum 1. "updated HTTP Vocabulary in RDF" taken up [from shadi]
15:07:24 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2006Dec/0001
15:08:59 <JibberJim> SAZ: We need a decision on to publish the doc, I suggest a week to review and then vote with an online strawpoll
15:09:11 <JibberJim> JK: Fine with me
15:09:45 <JibberJim> SAZ: There's a deadline by 21st December until Jan.  So 1 week to review and 1 week to sort out publication.
15:09:56 <JibberJim> s/JK/CR/
15:10:40 <JibberJim> SAZ: Try for publication on the 20th.
15:10:55 <JibberJim> SAZ: Get your comments in ASAP though please.
15:10:57 <shadi> s/on the 20th/around the 20th
15:11:30 <shadi> zakim, close agendum 1
15:11:30 <Zakim> agendum 1, updated HTTP Vocabulary in RDF, closed
15:11:31 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:11:33 <Zakim> 2. proposal for "Content" class [from shadi]
15:11:44 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 2
15:11:44 <Zakim> agendum 2. "proposal for "Content" class" taken up [from shadi]
15:11:59 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2006Dec/0002
15:13:38 <JibberJim> SAZ: Seperate out a super class to webcontent and content - Every exchange stored in a seperate instance of the http content class.
15:13:43 <JibberJim> JK: Looks Good
15:14:24 <JibberJim> JL: Looks fine, but XML validity issues
15:14:52 <JibberJim> SAZ: Any one against it?
15:15:13 <JibberJim> RESOLUTION: Adopt the content class into the EARL schema
15:15:30 <shadi> zakim, close agendum 2
15:15:30 <Zakim> agendum 2, proposal for "Content" class, closed
15:15:31 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:15:32 <Zakim> 3. addressing security/privacy in EARL [from shadi]
15:15:37 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 3
15:15:37 <Zakim> agendum 3. "addressing security/privacy in EARL" taken up [from shadi]
15:16:00 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2006Oct/0047
15:16:36 <JibberJim> SAZ: Do we need additional properties to hide and encrypt some data that is in EARL reports
15:16:45 <JibberJim> SAZ: For example passwords in HTTP class.
15:17:07 <JibberJim> SAZ: Do we need to do more than make people aware of the issues in the guide?
15:18:38 <JibberJim> CI: I think we should at least highlight the issue, if not include extra properties
15:19:24 <JibberJim> SAZ: Are you saying we should do both and add properties as well as note it?
15:19:58 <JibberJim> CI: I would be happy with just the highlight note solution, if the group doesn't want to do more.
15:20:22 <JibberJim> JK: A note in the guide would be okay, but not so sure about the Schema.
15:20:59 <JibberJim> CI: I think it would be important enough for the Schema.
15:22:03 <JibberJim> CI: could be in the HTTP Vocab
15:22:46 <JibberJim> SAZ: I think JK said previously you have the same security considerations as HTTP
15:22:55 <JibberJim> SAZ: We can highlight it somewhere there.
15:23:16 <JibberJim> SAZ: Doesn't need to be too long
15:25:20 <JibberJim> SAZ: If everyone is in agreement, I'll take an action to get it into the HTTP Vocab
15:25:59 <JibberJim> JL: I don't think we should exclude the idea of having a brief statement warning that there could be sensitive data.
15:26:05 <JibberJim> JK: agree
15:26:35 <JibberJim> SAZ: Proposal is brief statement in schema and http doc and a small section in the guide?
15:26:45 <JibberJim> s/?/ any objections?/
15:27:20 <JibberJim> RESOLUTION: Include brief statement in schema and http vocab, and a small section in guide
15:27:30 <JibberJim> ACTION: SAZ to include security statement in earl schema
15:27:36 <JibberJim> ACTION: SAZ to include security statement in http vocab
15:28:25 <JibberJim> ACTION: CV and JK to include security section in the earl guide
15:28:37 <shadi> zakim, close agendum 3
15:28:37 <Zakim> agendum 3, addressing security/privacy in EARL, closed
15:28:39 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
15:28:40 <Zakim> 4. addressing warnings in EARL [from shadi]
15:28:43 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 4
15:28:43 <Zakim> agendum 4. "addressing warnings in EARL" taken up [from shadi]
15:28:51 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2006Dec/0003
15:29:56 <JibberJim> SAZ: There seems to be some agreement that there's a warning flag, rather than subclassing and creating new values - have a description or warning that leads to a text description.
15:30:31 <JibberJim> SAZ: JK had a proposal too?
15:30:44 <JibberJim> JK: My proposal was the same as CI's but with subclassing
15:31:30 <JibberJim> SAZ: but David didn't like the subclassing
15:31:54 <JibberJim> JK: I'm in favour of subclassing, a warning is similar to a test result, but not quite.  like a test result only without a validity level
15:33:13 <JibberJim> SAZ: With CI's proposal a warning was similar to test results, and in different frameworks they could easily be test results instead
15:33:33 <JibberJim> SAZ: Perhaps a different idea is to have an earl warning property that was to string
15:34:26 <JibberJim> JK: but that would mean you'd have to have test results for each and every warning, e.g. this is valid CSS but warning X repeated for every warning
15:36:10 <JibberJim> JK: It would be similar to my proposal, but the validity level would still be pass, but the warning text would be what I use in the dc:description
15:37:32 <JibberJim> JK: I'm most concerned about what happened with failed tests rather than passes, so you'd still get failed results and passes
15:38:08 <JibberJim> CI: You could have instance in test result or 
15:38:46 <JibberJim> JK: And where would you describe the error
15:39:05 <shadi> s/in test results or/in test result or warning
15:40:13 <JibberJim> JK: If you had more than one error, where would you have the warnings, in just one of the errors, or all of them, or seperate out to another testResult?
15:40:36 <JibberJim> CI: You'd have the warnings in the most appropriate testResult
15:41:12 <JibberJim> JK: Would you be able to create another proposal using the same method but when the documents have Errors and warnings rather than just Pass and warnings.
15:41:53 <JibberJim> ACTION CI Expand previous proposal to include warnings with failed tests, rather than  passed ones.
15:42:36 <JibberJim> SAZ: With the examples we have, they could easily be testResults too, so we could have the CSS validates, but note these other results.
15:42:47 <JibberJim> JK: Here it's a question of what is the test?
15:44:14 <JibberJim> SAZ: So the original test CSS, would be a past, but there'd be earl warning properties which point to test results too, which might still be failed tests, it doesn't affect the validity of the original test
15:44:51 <JibberJim> SAZ: So in the context of the tests that are being warned it's a fail, but that doesn't affect the parent result
15:46:53 <JibberJim> CI: You don't need to record the links from test results to the warnings, you have 3 test results and 2 warnings
15:47:25 <JibberJim> SAZ: My Alternative is to just link tests so even that a particular test succeeds, there are still warnings that these other 2 tests
15:48:00 <JibberJim> CI: We'd agreed not to do a test relationship language
15:48:37 <JibberJim> SAZ: My concern is that earl:warning is a hidden test result class, and tool developers will just mis-use it rather than use cannotTell etc.
15:49:07 <JibberJim> CI: The warning class has been designed to avoid this somewhat by not giving validity levels etc.
15:49:37 <JibberJim> SAZ: I'm concerned it will be "valid WCAG 1, but then say earl:warning "check colour contrast"
15:50:02 <JibberJim> CI: But that is a misuse, I'm not sure we can do stuff to prevent misuse.
15:50:37 <JibberJim> SAZ: It's true we'll never succeed totally, but this has been a problem in the past, as users like to see a "pass"
15:52:01 <JibberJim> SAZ: Am I the only one seeing it as a hidden test result.
15:52:24 <JibberJim> JK: You could say that, but the point is what is the test?
15:54:37 <JibberJim> CI: maybe Shadi could provide an action to how people could misuse a warning as a test result, as I can't see an example
15:54:55 <JibberJim> ACTION: Shadi to provide misuse of warning class examples
15:55:43 <shadi> zakim, close agendum 4
15:55:43 <Zakim> agendum 4, addressing warnings in EARL, closed
15:55:45 <Zakim> I see nothing remaining on the agenda
15:56:13 <shadi> agenda+ plan upcoming face-to-face
15:56:16 <JibberJim> ACTION: CI Expand previous proposal to include warnings with failed tests, rather than  passed ones.
15:56:24 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 5
15:56:24 <Zakim> agendum 5. "plan upcoming face-to-face" taken up [from shadi]
15:56:55 <JibberJim> SAZ: We should have 2 f2f a year, we should be thinking of an upcoming one for the beginning of the year
15:57:24 <JibberJim> SAZ: Perhaps the mini-tech at the end of Jan, but that's a bit soon perhaps?
15:57:38 <JibberJim> SAZ: Any date/time preferences?
15:57:52 <JibberJim> JK: There was an invitation from Chaals in Norway?
15:57:57 <JibberJim> SAZ: and CTC in spain
15:58:08 <JibberJim> SAZ: or to St Augustin again?
15:58:09 <CarlosI> s/CTC/CTIC
15:58:42 <JibberJim> CI: I like Spain :)
15:59:55 <JibberJim> CI: There's a W3 Symposium in Spain in the first week of Feb.
16:00:23 <CarlosI> http://w3c.es/Eventos/2007/eGov/
16:00:38 <CarlosI> European W3C Symposium on eGovernment
16:00:45 <JibberJim> SAZ: Any dates people can't make in Feb?
16:00:55 <JibberJim> JK: Only weekends occupied for me
16:00:59 <CarlosI> 1-2 February
16:02:11 <JibberJim> SAZ: End of Feb might be best to give everyone time to organise travel
16:02:52 <JibberJim> CI: Feb is busy time for CTIC, I will check and find out more
16:04:44 <JibberJim> Cheers!
16:04:54 <davidr> davidr has left #er
16:04:56 <Zakim> -Klaus/Johannes/Thomas
16:04:57 <Zakim> -JibberJim
16:05:00 <Zakim> -David
16:05:01 <Zakim> -Shadi
16:05:02 <Zakim> -berrueta
16:06:36 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:06:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see Chris
16:06:42 <shadi> zakim, drop chris
16:06:42 <Zakim> Chris is being disconnected
16:06:43 <Zakim> WAI_ERTWG()10:00AM has ended
16:06:45 <Zakim> Attendees were Klaus/Johannes/Thomas, Shadi, JibberJim, Chris, David, berrueta
16:06:47 <shadi> zakim, bye
16:06:47 <Zakim> Zakim has left #er
16:09:35 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
16:09:40 <shadi> rrsagent, make minutes
16:09:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/12/06-er-minutes.html shadi
16:09:41 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
16:09:46 <shadi> rrsagent, bye
16:09:46 <RRSAgent> I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/06-er-actions.rdf :
16:09:46 <RRSAgent> ACTION: SAZ to include security statement in earl schema [1]
16:09:46 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/06-er-irc#T15-27-30
16:09:46 <RRSAgent> ACTION: SAZ to include security statement in http vocab [2]
16:09:46 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/06-er-irc#T15-27-36
16:09:46 <RRSAgent> ACTION: CV and JK to include security section in the earl guide [3]
16:09:46 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/06-er-irc#T15-28-25
16:09:46 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shadi to provide misuse of warning class examples [4]
16:09:46 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/06-er-irc#T15-54-55
16:09:46 <RRSAgent> ACTION: CI Expand previous proposal to include warnings with failed tests, rather than  passed ones. [5]
16:09:46 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/06-er-irc#T15-56-16