IRC log of er on 2006-12-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:39:24 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/12/06-er-irc
14:39:36 [shadi]
zakim, this will be ert
14:39:36 [Zakim]
ok, shadi; I see WAI_ERTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 21 minutes
14:39:43 [shadi]
meeting: ERT WG
14:39:46 [shadi]
chair: Shadi
14:39:55 [shadi]
regrets: CarlosV, Daniela
14:40:59 [shadi]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2006Dec/0009.html
14:42:31 [shadi]
agenda+ updated HTTP Vocabulary in RDF
14:42:45 [shadi]
agenda+ proposal for "Content" class
14:42:57 [shadi]
agenda+ addressing security/privacy in EARL
14:43:07 [shadi]
agenda+ addressing warnings in EARL
14:57:15 [JibberJim]
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14:57:55 [JibberJim]
I'm scribing :(
14:59:19 [shadi]
thx jim!
14:59:33 [Zakim]
WAI_ERTWG()10:00AM has now started
14:59:41 [Zakim]
+Klaus/Johannes/Thomas
15:00:01 [JohannesK]
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15:00:04 [Zakim]
+Shadi
15:00:15 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:00:36 [JibberJim]
Zakim, IPcaller is me
15:00:36 [Zakim]
+JibberJim; got it
15:00:44 [JibberJim]
now muted, can here you fine
15:02:23 [ChrisR]
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15:03:09 [CarlosI]
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15:03:26 [JibberJim]
No!
15:04:12 [shadi]
http://www.w3.org/2006/02/mwi-test-charter
15:04:16 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:04:33 [shadi]
zakim, ipcaller is really Chris
15:04:33 [Zakim]
+Chris; got it
15:04:52 [davidr]
davidr has joined #er
15:05:22 [Zakim]
+??P24
15:05:31 [JibberJim]
SAZ: If anyone is interested in the MWI test description area, please get in touch with Shadi
15:05:44 [shadi]
zakim, ??p24 is really David
15:05:44 [Zakim]
+David; got it
15:06:02 [shadi]
scribe: Jim
15:06:07 [shadi]
scribenick: JibberJim
15:06:21 [Zakim]
+berrueta
15:06:24 [shadi]
zakim, take up agendum 1
15:06:24 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "updated HTTP Vocabulary in RDF" taken up [from shadi]
15:07:24 [shadi]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2006Dec/0001
15:08:59 [JibberJim]
SAZ: We need a decision on to publish the doc, I suggest a week to review and then vote with an online strawpoll
15:09:11 [JibberJim]
JK: Fine with me
15:09:45 [JibberJim]
SAZ: There's a deadline by 21st December until Jan. So 1 week to review and 1 week to sort out publication.
15:09:56 [JibberJim]
s/JK/CR/
15:10:40 [JibberJim]
SAZ: Try for publication on the 20th.
15:10:55 [JibberJim]
SAZ: Get your comments in ASAP though please.
15:10:57 [shadi]
s/on the 20th/around the 20th
15:11:30 [shadi]
zakim, close agendum 1
15:11:30 [Zakim]
agendum 1, updated HTTP Vocabulary in RDF, closed
15:11:31 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:11:33 [Zakim]
2. proposal for "Content" class [from shadi]
15:11:44 [shadi]
zakim, take up agendum 2
15:11:44 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "proposal for "Content" class" taken up [from shadi]
15:11:59 [shadi]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2006Dec/0002
15:13:38 [JibberJim]
SAZ: Seperate out a super class to webcontent and content - Every exchange stored in a seperate instance of the http content class.
15:13:43 [JibberJim]
JK: Looks Good
15:14:24 [JibberJim]
JL: Looks fine, but XML validity issues
15:14:52 [JibberJim]
SAZ: Any one against it?
15:15:13 [JibberJim]
RESOLUTION: Adopt the content class into the EARL schema
15:15:30 [shadi]
zakim, close agendum 2
15:15:30 [Zakim]
agendum 2, proposal for "Content" class, closed
15:15:31 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:15:32 [Zakim]
3. addressing security/privacy in EARL [from shadi]
15:15:37 [shadi]
zakim, take up agendum 3
15:15:37 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "addressing security/privacy in EARL" taken up [from shadi]
15:16:00 [shadi]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2006Oct/0047
15:16:36 [JibberJim]
SAZ: Do we need additional properties to hide and encrypt some data that is in EARL reports
15:16:45 [JibberJim]
SAZ: For example passwords in HTTP class.
15:17:07 [JibberJim]
SAZ: Do we need to do more than make people aware of the issues in the guide?
15:18:38 [JibberJim]
CI: I think we should at least highlight the issue, if not include extra properties
15:19:24 [JibberJim]
SAZ: Are you saying we should do both and add properties as well as note it?
15:19:58 [JibberJim]
CI: I would be happy with just the highlight note solution, if the group doesn't want to do more.
15:20:22 [JibberJim]
JK: A note in the guide would be okay, but not so sure about the Schema.
15:20:59 [JibberJim]
CI: I think it would be important enough for the Schema.
15:22:03 [JibberJim]
CI: could be in the HTTP Vocab
15:22:46 [JibberJim]
SAZ: I think JK said previously you have the same security considerations as HTTP
15:22:55 [JibberJim]
SAZ: We can highlight it somewhere there.
15:23:16 [JibberJim]
SAZ: Doesn't need to be too long
15:25:20 [JibberJim]
SAZ: If everyone is in agreement, I'll take an action to get it into the HTTP Vocab
15:25:59 [JibberJim]
JL: I don't think we should exclude the idea of having a brief statement warning that there could be sensitive data.
15:26:05 [JibberJim]
JK: agree
15:26:35 [JibberJim]
SAZ: Proposal is brief statement in schema and http doc and a small section in the guide?
15:26:45 [JibberJim]
s/?/ any objections?/
15:27:20 [JibberJim]
RESOLUTION: Include brief statement in schema and http vocab, and a small section in guide
15:27:30 [JibberJim]
ACTION: SAZ to include security statement in earl schema
15:27:36 [JibberJim]
ACTION: SAZ to include security statement in http vocab
15:28:25 [JibberJim]
ACTION: CV and JK to include security section in the earl guide
15:28:37 [shadi]
zakim, close agendum 3
15:28:37 [Zakim]
agendum 3, addressing security/privacy in EARL, closed
15:28:39 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
15:28:40 [Zakim]
4. addressing warnings in EARL [from shadi]
15:28:43 [shadi]
zakim, take up agendum 4
15:28:43 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "addressing warnings in EARL" taken up [from shadi]
15:28:51 [shadi]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2006Dec/0003
15:29:56 [JibberJim]
SAZ: There seems to be some agreement that there's a warning flag, rather than subclassing and creating new values - have a description or warning that leads to a text description.
15:30:31 [JibberJim]
SAZ: JK had a proposal too?
15:30:44 [JibberJim]
JK: My proposal was the same as CI's but with subclassing
15:31:30 [JibberJim]
SAZ: but David didn't like the subclassing
15:31:54 [JibberJim]
JK: I'm in favour of subclassing, a warning is similar to a test result, but not quite. like a test result only without a validity level
15:33:13 [JibberJim]
SAZ: With CI's proposal a warning was similar to test results, and in different frameworks they could easily be test results instead
15:33:33 [JibberJim]
SAZ: Perhaps a different idea is to have an earl warning property that was to string
15:34:26 [JibberJim]
JK: but that would mean you'd have to have test results for each and every warning, e.g. this is valid CSS but warning X repeated for every warning
15:36:10 [JibberJim]
JK: It would be similar to my proposal, but the validity level would still be pass, but the warning text would be what I use in the dc:description
15:37:32 [JibberJim]
JK: I'm most concerned about what happened with failed tests rather than passes, so you'd still get failed results and passes
15:38:08 [JibberJim]
CI: You could have instance in test result or
15:38:46 [JibberJim]
JK: And where would you describe the error
15:39:05 [shadi]
s/in test results or/in test result or warning
15:40:13 [JibberJim]
JK: If you had more than one error, where would you have the warnings, in just one of the errors, or all of them, or seperate out to another testResult?
15:40:36 [JibberJim]
CI: You'd have the warnings in the most appropriate testResult
15:41:12 [JibberJim]
JK: Would you be able to create another proposal using the same method but when the documents have Errors and warnings rather than just Pass and warnings.
15:41:53 [JibberJim]
ACTION CI Expand previous proposal to include warnings with failed tests, rather than passed ones.
15:42:36 [JibberJim]
SAZ: With the examples we have, they could easily be testResults too, so we could have the CSS validates, but note these other results.
15:42:47 [JibberJim]
JK: Here it's a question of what is the test?
15:44:14 [JibberJim]
SAZ: So the original test CSS, would be a past, but there'd be earl warning properties which point to test results too, which might still be failed tests, it doesn't affect the validity of the original test
15:44:51 [JibberJim]
SAZ: So in the context of the tests that are being warned it's a fail, but that doesn't affect the parent result
15:46:53 [JibberJim]
CI: You don't need to record the links from test results to the warnings, you have 3 test results and 2 warnings
15:47:25 [JibberJim]
SAZ: My Alternative is to just link tests so even that a particular test succeeds, there are still warnings that these other 2 tests
15:48:00 [JibberJim]
CI: We'd agreed not to do a test relationship language
15:48:37 [JibberJim]
SAZ: My concern is that earl:warning is a hidden test result class, and tool developers will just mis-use it rather than use cannotTell etc.
15:49:07 [JibberJim]
CI: The warning class has been designed to avoid this somewhat by not giving validity levels etc.
15:49:37 [JibberJim]
SAZ: I'm concerned it will be "valid WCAG 1, but then say earl:warning "check colour contrast"
15:50:02 [JibberJim]
CI: But that is a misuse, I'm not sure we can do stuff to prevent misuse.
15:50:37 [JibberJim]
SAZ: It's true we'll never succeed totally, but this has been a problem in the past, as users like to see a "pass"
15:52:01 [JibberJim]
SAZ: Am I the only one seeing it as a hidden test result.
15:52:24 [JibberJim]
JK: You could say that, but the point is what is the test?
15:54:37 [JibberJim]
CI: maybe Shadi could provide an action to how people could misuse a warning as a test result, as I can't see an example
15:54:55 [JibberJim]
ACTION: Shadi to provide misuse of warning class examples
15:55:43 [shadi]
zakim, close agendum 4
15:55:43 [Zakim]
agendum 4, addressing warnings in EARL, closed
15:55:45 [Zakim]
I see nothing remaining on the agenda
15:56:13 [shadi]
agenda+ plan upcoming face-to-face
15:56:16 [JibberJim]
ACTION: CI Expand previous proposal to include warnings with failed tests, rather than passed ones.
15:56:24 [shadi]
zakim, take up agendum 5
15:56:24 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "plan upcoming face-to-face" taken up [from shadi]
15:56:55 [JibberJim]
SAZ: We should have 2 f2f a year, we should be thinking of an upcoming one for the beginning of the year
15:57:24 [JibberJim]
SAZ: Perhaps the mini-tech at the end of Jan, but that's a bit soon perhaps?
15:57:38 [JibberJim]
SAZ: Any date/time preferences?
15:57:52 [JibberJim]
JK: There was an invitation from Chaals in Norway?
15:57:57 [JibberJim]
SAZ: and CTC in spain
15:58:08 [JibberJim]
SAZ: or to St Augustin again?
15:58:09 [CarlosI]
s/CTC/CTIC
15:58:42 [JibberJim]
CI: I like Spain :)
15:59:55 [JibberJim]
CI: There's a W3 Symposium in Spain in the first week of Feb.
16:00:23 [CarlosI]
http://w3c.es/Eventos/2007/eGov/
16:00:38 [CarlosI]
European W3C Symposium on eGovernment
16:00:45 [JibberJim]
SAZ: Any dates people can't make in Feb?
16:00:55 [JibberJim]
JK: Only weekends occupied for me
16:00:59 [CarlosI]
1-2 February
16:02:11 [JibberJim]
SAZ: End of Feb might be best to give everyone time to organise travel
16:02:52 [JibberJim]
CI: Feb is busy time for CTIC, I will check and find out more
16:04:44 [JibberJim]
Cheers!
16:04:54 [davidr]
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16:04:56 [Zakim]
-Klaus/Johannes/Thomas
16:04:57 [Zakim]
-JibberJim
16:05:00 [Zakim]
-David
16:05:01 [Zakim]
-Shadi
16:05:02 [Zakim]
-berrueta
16:06:36 [shadi]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:06:36 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Chris
16:06:42 [shadi]
zakim, drop chris
16:06:42 [Zakim]
Chris is being disconnected
16:06:43 [Zakim]
WAI_ERTWG()10:00AM has ended
16:06:45 [Zakim]
Attendees were Klaus/Johannes/Thomas, Shadi, JibberJim, Chris, David, berrueta
16:06:47 [shadi]
zakim, bye
16:06:47 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #er
16:09:35 [shadi]
rrsagent, make logs world
16:09:40 [shadi]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:09:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/12/06-er-minutes.html shadi
16:09:41 [shadi]
rrsagent, make logs world
16:09:46 [shadi]
rrsagent, bye
16:09:46 [RRSAgent]
I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/06-er-actions.rdf :
16:09:46 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: SAZ to include security statement in earl schema [1]
16:09:46 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/06-er-irc#T15-27-30
16:09:46 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: SAZ to include security statement in http vocab [2]
16:09:46 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/06-er-irc#T15-27-36
16:09:46 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: CV and JK to include security section in the earl guide [3]
16:09:46 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/06-er-irc#T15-28-25
16:09:46 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Shadi to provide misuse of warning class examples [4]
16:09:46 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/06-er-irc#T15-54-55
16:09:46 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: CI Expand previous proposal to include warnings with failed tests, rather than passed ones. [5]
16:09:46 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/06-er-irc#T15-56-16