IRC log of tsdtf on 2006-12-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:11:24 [RRSAgent]

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13:11:24 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/12/05-tsdtf-irc

13:11:32 [Zakim]

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13:11:44 [shadi]

zakim, this will be tsdtf

13:11:44 [Zakim]

ok, shadi; I see WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM scheduled to start in 19 minutes

13:11:51 [shadi]

meeting: TSD TF

13:12:03 [shadi]

chair: CarlosV, Christophe

13:12:30 [shadi]

agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2006Dec/0002.html

13:12:48 [shadi]

agenda+ Linking location and techniques in TCDL 2.0

13:13:03 [shadi]

agenda+ Final review of evaluation process

13:13:16 [shadi]

agenda+ Templates for TCDL metadata

13:13:28 [shadi]

agenda+ Uploading of test cases

13:15:33 [shadi]

scribe: Michael

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13:22:51 [Vangelis]

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13:26:07 [ChrisR]

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13:30:16 [Zakim]

WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM has now started

13:30:17 [Zakim]

+Shadi

13:30:44 [Zakim]

+Cooper

13:31:00 [Christophe]

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13:31:18 [CarlosI]

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13:31:44 [Zakim]

+??P0

13:32:05 [Christophe]

zakim, ??P0 is Christophe_Strobbe

13:32:05 [Zakim]

+Christophe_Strobbe; got it

13:32:05 [shadi]

zakim, ? is really Christophe

13:32:06 [Zakim]

sorry, shadi, I do not recognize a party named '?'

13:32:09 [Zakim]

+Vangelis_Karkaletsis

13:32:19 [Aihal]

scribe: Michael_Cooper

13:32:22 [shadi]

scribe_nick: Aihal

13:32:23 [Aihal]

scribeNick: Aihal

13:32:32 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

13:32:48 [shadi]

zakim, ipcaller is really Chris

13:32:48 [Zakim]

+Chris; got it

13:33:02 [Zakim]

+berrueta

13:33:35 [CarlosV]

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13:34:15 [Zakim]

-Chris

13:34:18 [shadi]

agenda?

13:34:24 [Zakim]

+??P4

13:34:38 [shadi]

zakim, ? is really CarlosV

13:34:38 [Zakim]

+CarlosV; got it

13:34:40 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

13:34:48 [shadi]

zakim, ipcaller is really Chris

13:34:48 [Zakim]

+Chris; got it

13:35:08 [shadi]

zakim, who is on the phone?

13:35:08 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Shadi, Cooper, Christophe_Strobbe, Vangelis_Karkaletsis, berrueta, CarlosV, Chris

13:36:00 [shadi]

regrets: Daniela

13:36:41 [Aihal]

zakim, take up item 1

13:36:41 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Linking location and techniques in TCDL 2.0" taken up [from shadi]

13:37:09 [Aihal]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2006Nov/0044.html

13:37:59 [Aihal]

cv: concerns expressed about mapping locations and techniques

13:38:06 [Aihal]

... proposal from Christophe

13:38:12 [Aihal]

cs: prefer option A

13:38:40 [Aihal]

... most robust, minimal duplication

13:39:21 [Aihal]

saz: question on A - is techref IDREF?

13:39:28 [Aihal]

cs: is IDREFS

13:40:44 [Aihal]

... would like to be able to use space-separated refs

13:40:56 [Aihal]

saz: was only one not liking it on list

13:41:18 [Zakim]

-Chris

13:42:11 [Aihal]

cv: problem with non-valid ID attribute on techinque

13:42:21 [Aihal]

cs: schema updated, technique has ID

13:43:07 [Aihal]

cv: Option A most error-prone, but cleaner

13:43:57 [Aihal]

mc: validating processor can ensure avoidance of errors

13:45:14 [Aihal]

cv: discussed with CS; scendario with techniques / locations wouldn't be caught

13:45:21 [Aihal]

... by validating processor

13:47:00 [Aihal]

vk: A more processor-friendly; B more user-friendly; can live with A

13:47:17 [Aihal]

cr: prefer A or B to C

13:49:19 [Aihal]

??1: agree with analysis; no preference between A & B, lean towards B, don't like C

13:49:46 [shadi]

s/??1/ci

13:50:12 [Aihal]

saz: point of being more machine testable compelling

13:50:31 [Aihal]

... should be able to extract IDs out of WCAG source XML

13:50:43 [Aihal]

... may be able to do a bunch of stuff with that

13:51:18 [Aihal]

ci: can live iwth A

13:51:27 [Aihal]

s/iwth/with

13:51:50 [CarlosV]

chris, can you live with option A?

13:52:12 [Aihal]

mc: prefer A

13:52:42 [Aihal]

cr: can live with A

13:53:18 [Aihal]

RESOLUTION: accept model A from Christophe's proposal http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2006Nov/0044.html

13:53:32 [Aihal]

zakim, next item

13:53:32 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "Final review of evaluation process" taken up [from shadi]

13:54:06 [Aihal]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/2006/tests/process

13:54:11 [Aihal]

saz: no feedback received

13:54:20 [Aihal]

cv: were some issues raised last week

13:54:52 [Aihal]

cs: Shadi clarified some issues on list

13:54:59 [shadi]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2006Nov/0046.html

13:55:44 [Aihal]

saz: <summarizes responses at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2006Nov/0046.html>

13:56:27 [shadi]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/2005/tools

13:57:46 [Aihal]

cv: concern about how people contribute to lists

13:57:51 [Aihal]

cs: suggest wiki

13:58:13 [Aihal]

saz: wiki is available if we want

13:58:27 [Aihal]

... could also use CVS to edit a common document

13:59:07 [Aihal]

mc: wiki easier for multiple contributions

13:59:23 [Aihal]

saz: not concerned about concurrency but want it to be easy for people to track

13:59:30 [Zakim]

+ +1.202.789.aaaa

13:59:43 [Aihal]

zakim, +1.202 is Tim_Boland

13:59:43 [Zakim]

+Tim_Boland; got it

14:01:31 [Aihal]

cv: where would wiki be hosted?

14:01:46 [Aihal]

saz: service from W3C, need to explore details

14:02:24 [Aihal]

zakim, mute Tim

14:02:24 [Zakim]

Tim_Boland should now be muted

14:03:02 [Aihal]

cs: weren't there ease of use issues with W3C wiki?

14:04:11 [Aihal]

mc: some of the issues may be resolved because it's now supported, but not familiar with the specific software

14:05:30 [Aihal]

action: Shadi to explore wiki option

14:07:25 [Aihal]

saz: question about reviews at steps 2 and 3

14:08:07 [Aihal]

cv: perhaps steps are same

14:08:22 [Aihal]

saz: might do things asynchronously, better not to combine

14:08:47 [Aihal]

cv: prefer same person to do the steps

14:09:05 [Aihal]

saz: we could prefer same user, but not combine

14:09:55 [Aihal]

cv: need way to store results

14:10:04 [Aihal]

saz: results need to be publicly visible; wiki option

14:10:20 [Aihal]

... WBS form can be publicly viewable, but it doesn't keep history like wiki does

14:11:38 [Aihal]

... <WBS is W3C's Web-Based Survey system>

14:11:51 [Aihal]

... appropriate for straw poll (step 4) but recording evaluation results better in wiki

14:11:54 [Aihal]

cs: agree

14:13:59 [Aihal]

ci: discussed bug-tracking system earlier

14:14:32 [Aihal]

... but not user-friendly

14:14:40 [Aihal]

saz: Bugzilla is an option

14:15:06 [Aihal]

ci: could store history and store who's working on what, more consistenly than wiki

14:15:41 [Aihal]

ci: use <name> instead of Bugzilla

14:15:53 [CarlosV]

JIRA: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/

14:15:58 [Aihal]

s/<name>/JIRA

14:16:40 [Aihal]

saz: wouldn't be supported by W3C systems team, so we'd be on our own

14:17:42 [Aihal]

ci: if Bugzlilla supported by W3C, why WCAG use external?

14:17:54 [Aihal]

mc: may not have been supported at time, and needed to customize

14:18:04 [Aihal]

saz: issues with externally-hosted tools

14:18:16 [Aihal]

... prefer to go with internally-supported, low-rent tools

14:18:34 [Aihal]

ci: can ask to support JIRA?

14:18:48 [Aihal]

saz: asked a while ago, no plans to support anything else

14:19:09 [Aihal]

... there is effort to analyze WG needs, but won't be complete for a while

14:19:59 [Aihal]

ci: prefer Bugzilla stil, but may be better to use just one tool e.g. wiki

14:20:28 [Aihal]

... issue tracking in bug tracker more flexible than wiki

14:20:36 [Aihal]

s/stil/still

14:21:53 [Aihal]

... author can get automatic feedback from system about changes in status in bug tracker

14:23:49 [Aihal]

saz: issue of who configures

14:27:17 [Aihal]

mc: bug tracker still has its limitations

14:27:27 [Aihal]

saz: will use WBS in step 4 anyway

14:27:44 [Aihal]

... we have discomfort either with configuring bug tracker, or sending emails to each author

14:28:28 [Aihal]

s/ci: prefer/cv: prefer

14:28:54 [Aihal]

cv: prefer bug tracker

14:30:07 [Aihal]

ci: any bug tracker will have difficulties, but should choose what meets our needs, as simply as possible

14:30:22 [Aihal]

... that may be wiki

14:30:37 [Aihal]

... if that doesn't meet needs, than Bugzilla best next option

14:31:14 [Aihal]

saz: hear support for bug tracking, but usability an issue

14:31:26 [Zakim]

-Christophe_Strobbe

14:32:01 [Aihal]

cv: JIRA runs in Tomcat

14:32:30 [Aihal]

action: Carlos V to send question to list about software

14:32:48 [CarlosV]

KUL did not pay phone bills

14:32:50 [Aihal]

saz: request people review his responses to see if other open questions

14:33:06 [Zakim]

-Tim_Boland

14:33:08 [Zakim]

-Vangelis_Karkaletsis

14:33:11 [Zakim]

-Shadi

14:33:12 [ChrisR]

ChrisR has left #tsdtf

14:33:13 [Zakim]

-CarlosV

14:33:17 [Zakim]

-Cooper

14:33:20 [Zakim]

-berrueta

14:33:21 [Zakim]

WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM has ended

14:33:22 [Zakim]

Attendees were Shadi, Cooper, Christophe_Strobbe, Vangelis_Karkaletsis, Chris, berrueta, CarlosV, +1.202.789.aaaa, Tim_Boland

14:33:33 [shadi]

zakim, bye

14:33:33 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #tsdtf

14:33:42 [shadi]

rrsagent, make logs world

14:33:46 [shadi]

rrsagent, make minutes

14:33:46 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/12/05-tsdtf-minutes.html shadi

14:33:48 [shadi]

rrsagent, make logs world

14:33:52 [shadi]

rrsagent, bye

14:33:52 [RRSAgent]

I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/05-tsdtf-actions.rdf :

14:33:52 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Shadi to explore wiki option [1]

14:33:52 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/05-tsdtf-irc#T14-05-30

14:33:52 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Carlos V to send question to list about software [2]

14:33:52 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/05-tsdtf-irc#T14-32-30