13:11:24 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #tsdtf
13:11:24 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/12/05-tsdtf-irc
13:11:32 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #tsdtf
13:11:44 <shadi> zakim, this will be tsdtf
13:11:44 <Zakim> ok, shadi; I see WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM scheduled to start in 19 minutes
13:11:51 <shadi> meeting: TSD TF
13:12:03 <shadi> chair: CarlosV, Christophe
13:12:30 <shadi> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2006Dec/0002.html
13:12:48 <shadi> agenda+ Linking location and techniques in TCDL 2.0
13:13:03 <shadi> agenda+ Final review of evaluation process
13:13:16 <shadi> agenda+ Templates for TCDL metadata
13:13:28 <shadi> agenda+ Uploading of test cases
13:15:33 <shadi> scribe: Michael
13:16:28 <Aihal> Aihal has joined #tsdtf
13:22:51 <Vangelis> Vangelis has joined #tsdtf
13:26:07 <ChrisR> ChrisR has joined #tsdtf
13:30:16 <Zakim> WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM has now started
13:30:17 <Zakim> +Shadi
13:30:44 <Zakim> +Cooper
13:31:00 <Christophe> Christophe has joined #tsdtf
13:31:18 <CarlosI> CarlosI has joined #tsdtf
13:31:44 <Zakim> +??P0
13:32:05 <Christophe> zakim, ??P0 is Christophe_Strobbe
13:32:05 <Zakim> +Christophe_Strobbe; got it
13:32:05 <shadi> zakim, ? is really Christophe
13:32:06 <Zakim> sorry, shadi, I do not recognize a party named '?'
13:32:09 <Zakim> +Vangelis_Karkaletsis
13:32:19 <Aihal> scribe: Michael_Cooper
13:32:22 <shadi> scribe_nick: Aihal
13:32:23 <Aihal> scribeNick: Aihal
13:32:32 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:32:48 <shadi> zakim, ipcaller is really Chris
13:32:48 <Zakim> +Chris; got it
13:33:02 <Zakim> +berrueta
13:33:35 <CarlosV> CarlosV has joined #tsdtf
13:34:15 <Zakim> -Chris
13:34:18 <shadi> agenda?
13:34:24 <Zakim> +??P4
13:34:38 <shadi> zakim, ? is really CarlosV
13:34:38 <Zakim> +CarlosV; got it
13:34:40 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:34:48 <shadi> zakim, ipcaller is really Chris
13:34:48 <Zakim> +Chris; got it
13:35:08 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
13:35:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see Shadi, Cooper, Christophe_Strobbe, Vangelis_Karkaletsis, berrueta, CarlosV, Chris
13:36:00 <shadi> regrets: Daniela
13:36:41 <Aihal> zakim, take up item 1
13:36:41 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Linking location and techniques in TCDL 2.0" taken up [from shadi]
13:37:09 <Aihal> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2006Nov/0044.html
13:37:59 <Aihal> cv: concerns expressed about mapping locations and techniques
13:38:06 <Aihal> ... proposal from Christophe
13:38:12 <Aihal> cs: prefer option A
13:38:40 <Aihal> ... most robust, minimal duplication
13:39:21 <Aihal> saz: question on A - is techref IDREF?
13:39:28 <Aihal> cs: is IDREFS
13:40:44 <Aihal> ... would like to be able to use space-separated refs
13:40:56 <Aihal> saz: was only one not liking it on list
13:41:18 <Zakim> -Chris
13:42:11 <Aihal> cv: problem with non-valid ID attribute on techinque
13:42:21 <Aihal> cs: schema updated, technique has ID
13:43:07 <Aihal> cv: Option A most error-prone, but cleaner
13:43:57 <Aihal> mc: validating processor can ensure avoidance of errors
13:45:14 <Aihal> cv: discussed with CS; scendario with techniques / locations wouldn't be caught
13:45:21 <Aihal> ... by validating processor
13:47:00 <Aihal> vk: A more processor-friendly; B more user-friendly; can live with A
13:47:17 <Aihal> cr: prefer A or B to C
13:49:19 <Aihal> ??1: agree with analysis; no preference between A & B, lean towards B, don't like C
13:49:46 <shadi> s/??1/ci
13:50:12 <Aihal> saz: point of being more machine testable compelling
13:50:31 <Aihal> ... should be able to extract IDs out of WCAG source XML
13:50:43 <Aihal> ... may be able to do a bunch of stuff with that
13:51:18 <Aihal> ci: can live iwth A
13:51:27 <Aihal> s/iwth/with
13:51:50 <CarlosV> chris, can you live with option A?
13:52:12 <Aihal> mc: prefer A
13:52:42 <Aihal> cr: can live with A
13:53:18 <Aihal> RESOLUTION: accept model A from Christophe's proposal http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2006Nov/0044.html
13:53:32 <Aihal> zakim, next item
13:53:32 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Final review of evaluation process" taken up [from shadi]
13:54:06 <Aihal> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/2006/tests/process
13:54:11 <Aihal> saz: no feedback received
13:54:20 <Aihal> cv: were some issues raised last week
13:54:52 <Aihal> cs: Shadi clarified some issues on list
13:54:59 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2006Nov/0046.html
13:55:44 <Aihal> saz: <summarizes responses at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2006Nov/0046.html>
13:56:27 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/2005/tools
13:57:46 <Aihal> cv: concern about how people contribute to lists
13:57:51 <Aihal> cs: suggest wiki
13:58:13 <Aihal> saz: wiki is available if we want
13:58:27 <Aihal> ... could also use CVS to edit a common document
13:59:07 <Aihal> mc: wiki easier for multiple contributions
13:59:23 <Aihal> saz: not concerned about concurrency but want it to be easy for people to track
13:59:30 <Zakim> + +1.202.789.aaaa
13:59:43 <Aihal> zakim, +1.202 is Tim_Boland
13:59:43 <Zakim> +Tim_Boland; got it
14:01:31 <Aihal> cv: where would wiki be hosted?
14:01:46 <Aihal> saz: service from W3C, need to explore details
14:02:24 <Aihal> zakim, mute Tim
14:02:24 <Zakim> Tim_Boland should now be muted
14:03:02 <Aihal> cs: weren't there ease of use issues with W3C wiki?
14:04:11 <Aihal> mc: some of the issues may be resolved because it's now supported, but not familiar with the specific software
14:05:30 <Aihal> action: Shadi to explore wiki option
14:07:25 <Aihal> saz: question about reviews at steps 2 and 3
14:08:07 <Aihal> cv: perhaps steps are same
14:08:22 <Aihal> saz: might do things asynchronously, better not to combine
14:08:47 <Aihal> cv: prefer same person to do the steps
14:09:05 <Aihal> saz: we could prefer same user, but not combine
14:09:55 <Aihal> cv: need way to store results
14:10:04 <Aihal> saz: results need to be publicly visible; wiki option
14:10:20 <Aihal> ... WBS form can be publicly viewable, but it doesn't keep history like wiki does
14:11:38 <Aihal> ... <WBS is W3C's Web-Based Survey system>
14:11:51 <Aihal> ... appropriate for straw poll (step 4) but recording evaluation results better in wiki
14:11:54 <Aihal> cs: agree
14:13:59 <Aihal> ci: discussed bug-tracking system earlier
14:14:32 <Aihal> ... but not user-friendly
14:14:40 <Aihal> saz: Bugzilla is an option
14:15:06 <Aihal> ci: could store history and store who's working on what, more consistenly than wiki
14:15:41 <Aihal> ci: use <name> instead of Bugzilla
14:15:53 <CarlosV> JIRA: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/
14:15:58 <Aihal> s/<name>/JIRA
14:16:40 <Aihal> saz: wouldn't be supported by W3C systems team, so we'd be on our own
14:17:42 <Aihal> ci: if Bugzlilla supported by W3C, why WCAG use external?
14:17:54 <Aihal> mc: may not have been supported at time, and needed to customize
14:18:04 <Aihal> saz: issues with externally-hosted tools
14:18:16 <Aihal> ... prefer to go with internally-supported, low-rent tools
14:18:34 <Aihal> ci: can ask to support JIRA?
14:18:48 <Aihal> saz: asked a while ago, no plans to support anything else
14:19:09 <Aihal> ... there is effort to analyze WG needs, but won't be complete for a while
14:19:59 <Aihal> ci: prefer Bugzilla stil, but may be better to use just one tool e.g. wiki
14:20:28 <Aihal> ... issue tracking in bug tracker more flexible than wiki
14:20:36 <Aihal> s/stil/still
14:21:53 <Aihal> ... author can get automatic feedback from system about changes in status in bug tracker
14:23:49 <Aihal> saz: issue of who configures
14:27:17 <Aihal> mc: bug tracker still has its limitations
14:27:27 <Aihal> saz: will use WBS in step 4 anyway
14:27:44 <Aihal> ... we have discomfort either with configuring bug tracker, or sending emails to each author
14:28:28 <Aihal> s/ci: prefer/cv: prefer
14:28:54 <Aihal> cv: prefer bug tracker
14:30:07 <Aihal> ci: any bug tracker will have difficulties, but should choose what meets our needs, as simply as possible
14:30:22 <Aihal> ... that may be wiki
14:30:37 <Aihal> ... if that doesn't meet needs, than Bugzilla best next option
14:31:14 <Aihal> saz: hear support for bug tracking, but usability an issue
14:31:26 <Zakim> -Christophe_Strobbe
14:32:01 <Aihal> cv: JIRA runs in Tomcat
14:32:30 <Aihal> action: Carlos V to send question to list about software
14:32:48 <CarlosV> KUL did not pay phone bills
14:32:50 <Aihal> saz: request people review his responses to see if other open questions
14:33:06 <Zakim> -Tim_Boland
14:33:08 <Zakim> -Vangelis_Karkaletsis
14:33:11 <Zakim> -Shadi
14:33:12 <ChrisR> ChrisR has left #tsdtf
14:33:13 <Zakim> -CarlosV
14:33:17 <Zakim> -Cooper
14:33:20 <Zakim> -berrueta
14:33:21 <Zakim> WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM has ended
14:33:22 <Zakim> Attendees were Shadi, Cooper, Christophe_Strobbe, Vangelis_Karkaletsis, Chris, berrueta, CarlosV, +1.202.789.aaaa, Tim_Boland
14:33:33 <shadi> zakim, bye
14:33:33 <Zakim> Zakim has left #tsdtf
14:33:42 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
14:33:46 <shadi> rrsagent, make minutes
14:33:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/12/05-tsdtf-minutes.html shadi
14:33:48 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
14:33:52 <shadi> rrsagent, bye
14:33:52 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/05-tsdtf-actions.rdf :
14:33:52 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shadi to explore wiki option [1]
14:33:52 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/05-tsdtf-irc#T14-05-30
14:33:52 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Carlos V to send question to list about software [2]
14:33:52 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/05-tsdtf-irc#T14-32-30