IRC log of tsdtf on 2006-12-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:11:24 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #tsdtf
13:11:24 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:11:32 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #tsdtf
13:11:44 [shadi]
zakim, this will be tsdtf
13:11:44 [Zakim]
ok, shadi; I see WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM scheduled to start in 19 minutes
13:11:51 [shadi]
meeting: TSD TF
13:12:03 [shadi]
chair: CarlosV, Christophe
13:12:30 [shadi]
13:12:48 [shadi]
agenda+ Linking location and techniques in TCDL 2.0
13:13:03 [shadi]
agenda+ Final review of evaluation process
13:13:16 [shadi]
agenda+ Templates for TCDL metadata
13:13:28 [shadi]
agenda+ Uploading of test cases
13:15:33 [shadi]
scribe: Michael
13:16:28 [Aihal]
Aihal has joined #tsdtf
13:22:51 [Vangelis]
Vangelis has joined #tsdtf
13:26:07 [ChrisR]
ChrisR has joined #tsdtf
13:30:16 [Zakim]
WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM has now started
13:30:17 [Zakim]
13:30:44 [Zakim]
13:31:00 [Christophe]
Christophe has joined #tsdtf
13:31:18 [CarlosI]
CarlosI has joined #tsdtf
13:31:44 [Zakim]
13:32:05 [Christophe]
zakim, ??P0 is Christophe_Strobbe
13:32:05 [Zakim]
+Christophe_Strobbe; got it
13:32:05 [shadi]
zakim, ? is really Christophe
13:32:06 [Zakim]
sorry, shadi, I do not recognize a party named '?'
13:32:09 [Zakim]
13:32:19 [Aihal]
scribe: Michael_Cooper
13:32:22 [shadi]
scribe_nick: Aihal
13:32:23 [Aihal]
scribeNick: Aihal
13:32:32 [Zakim]
13:32:48 [shadi]
zakim, ipcaller is really Chris
13:32:48 [Zakim]
+Chris; got it
13:33:02 [Zakim]
13:33:35 [CarlosV]
CarlosV has joined #tsdtf
13:34:15 [Zakim]
13:34:18 [shadi]
13:34:24 [Zakim]
13:34:38 [shadi]
zakim, ? is really CarlosV
13:34:38 [Zakim]
+CarlosV; got it
13:34:40 [Zakim]
13:34:48 [shadi]
zakim, ipcaller is really Chris
13:34:48 [Zakim]
+Chris; got it
13:35:08 [shadi]
zakim, who is on the phone?
13:35:08 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Shadi, Cooper, Christophe_Strobbe, Vangelis_Karkaletsis, berrueta, CarlosV, Chris
13:36:00 [shadi]
regrets: Daniela
13:36:41 [Aihal]
zakim, take up item 1
13:36:41 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Linking location and techniques in TCDL 2.0" taken up [from shadi]
13:37:09 [Aihal]
13:37:59 [Aihal]
cv: concerns expressed about mapping locations and techniques
13:38:06 [Aihal]
... proposal from Christophe
13:38:12 [Aihal]
cs: prefer option A
13:38:40 [Aihal]
... most robust, minimal duplication
13:39:21 [Aihal]
saz: question on A - is techref IDREF?
13:39:28 [Aihal]
cs: is IDREFS
13:40:44 [Aihal]
... would like to be able to use space-separated refs
13:40:56 [Aihal]
saz: was only one not liking it on list
13:41:18 [Zakim]
13:42:11 [Aihal]
cv: problem with non-valid ID attribute on techinque
13:42:21 [Aihal]
cs: schema updated, technique has ID
13:43:07 [Aihal]
cv: Option A most error-prone, but cleaner
13:43:57 [Aihal]
mc: validating processor can ensure avoidance of errors
13:45:14 [Aihal]
cv: discussed with CS; scendario with techniques / locations wouldn't be caught
13:45:21 [Aihal]
... by validating processor
13:47:00 [Aihal]
vk: A more processor-friendly; B more user-friendly; can live with A
13:47:17 [Aihal]
cr: prefer A or B to C
13:49:19 [Aihal]
??1: agree with analysis; no preference between A & B, lean towards B, don't like C
13:49:46 [shadi]
13:50:12 [Aihal]
saz: point of being more machine testable compelling
13:50:31 [Aihal]
... should be able to extract IDs out of WCAG source XML
13:50:43 [Aihal]
... may be able to do a bunch of stuff with that
13:51:18 [Aihal]
ci: can live iwth A
13:51:27 [Aihal]
13:51:50 [CarlosV]
chris, can you live with option A?
13:52:12 [Aihal]
mc: prefer A
13:52:42 [Aihal]
cr: can live with A
13:53:18 [Aihal]
RESOLUTION: accept model A from Christophe's proposal
13:53:32 [Aihal]
zakim, next item
13:53:32 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Final review of evaluation process" taken up [from shadi]
13:54:06 [Aihal]
13:54:11 [Aihal]
saz: no feedback received
13:54:20 [Aihal]
cv: were some issues raised last week
13:54:52 [Aihal]
cs: Shadi clarified some issues on list
13:54:59 [shadi]
13:55:44 [Aihal]
saz: <summarizes responses at>
13:56:27 [shadi]
13:57:46 [Aihal]
cv: concern about how people contribute to lists
13:57:51 [Aihal]
cs: suggest wiki
13:58:13 [Aihal]
saz: wiki is available if we want
13:58:27 [Aihal]
... could also use CVS to edit a common document
13:59:07 [Aihal]
mc: wiki easier for multiple contributions
13:59:23 [Aihal]
saz: not concerned about concurrency but want it to be easy for people to track
13:59:30 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.789.aaaa
13:59:43 [Aihal]
zakim, +1.202 is Tim_Boland
13:59:43 [Zakim]
+Tim_Boland; got it
14:01:31 [Aihal]
cv: where would wiki be hosted?
14:01:46 [Aihal]
saz: service from W3C, need to explore details
14:02:24 [Aihal]
zakim, mute Tim
14:02:24 [Zakim]
Tim_Boland should now be muted
14:03:02 [Aihal]
cs: weren't there ease of use issues with W3C wiki?
14:04:11 [Aihal]
mc: some of the issues may be resolved because it's now supported, but not familiar with the specific software
14:05:30 [Aihal]
action: Shadi to explore wiki option
14:07:25 [Aihal]
saz: question about reviews at steps 2 and 3
14:08:07 [Aihal]
cv: perhaps steps are same
14:08:22 [Aihal]
saz: might do things asynchronously, better not to combine
14:08:47 [Aihal]
cv: prefer same person to do the steps
14:09:05 [Aihal]
saz: we could prefer same user, but not combine
14:09:55 [Aihal]
cv: need way to store results
14:10:04 [Aihal]
saz: results need to be publicly visible; wiki option
14:10:20 [Aihal]
... WBS form can be publicly viewable, but it doesn't keep history like wiki does
14:11:38 [Aihal]
... <WBS is W3C's Web-Based Survey system>
14:11:51 [Aihal]
... appropriate for straw poll (step 4) but recording evaluation results better in wiki
14:11:54 [Aihal]
cs: agree
14:13:59 [Aihal]
ci: discussed bug-tracking system earlier
14:14:32 [Aihal]
... but not user-friendly
14:14:40 [Aihal]
saz: Bugzilla is an option
14:15:06 [Aihal]
ci: could store history and store who's working on what, more consistenly than wiki
14:15:41 [Aihal]
ci: use <name> instead of Bugzilla
14:15:53 [CarlosV]
14:15:58 [Aihal]
14:16:40 [Aihal]
saz: wouldn't be supported by W3C systems team, so we'd be on our own
14:17:42 [Aihal]
ci: if Bugzlilla supported by W3C, why WCAG use external?
14:17:54 [Aihal]
mc: may not have been supported at time, and needed to customize
14:18:04 [Aihal]
saz: issues with externally-hosted tools
14:18:16 [Aihal]
... prefer to go with internally-supported, low-rent tools
14:18:34 [Aihal]
ci: can ask to support JIRA?
14:18:48 [Aihal]
saz: asked a while ago, no plans to support anything else
14:19:09 [Aihal]
... there is effort to analyze WG needs, but won't be complete for a while
14:19:59 [Aihal]
ci: prefer Bugzilla stil, but may be better to use just one tool e.g. wiki
14:20:28 [Aihal]
... issue tracking in bug tracker more flexible than wiki
14:20:36 [Aihal]
14:21:53 [Aihal]
... author can get automatic feedback from system about changes in status in bug tracker
14:23:49 [Aihal]
saz: issue of who configures
14:27:17 [Aihal]
mc: bug tracker still has its limitations
14:27:27 [Aihal]
saz: will use WBS in step 4 anyway
14:27:44 [Aihal]
... we have discomfort either with configuring bug tracker, or sending emails to each author
14:28:28 [Aihal]
s/ci: prefer/cv: prefer
14:28:54 [Aihal]
cv: prefer bug tracker
14:30:07 [Aihal]
ci: any bug tracker will have difficulties, but should choose what meets our needs, as simply as possible
14:30:22 [Aihal]
... that may be wiki
14:30:37 [Aihal]
... if that doesn't meet needs, than Bugzilla best next option
14:31:14 [Aihal]
saz: hear support for bug tracking, but usability an issue
14:31:26 [Zakim]
14:32:01 [Aihal]
cv: JIRA runs in Tomcat
14:32:30 [Aihal]
action: Carlos V to send question to list about software
14:32:48 [CarlosV]
KUL did not pay phone bills
14:32:50 [Aihal]
saz: request people review his responses to see if other open questions
14:33:06 [Zakim]
14:33:08 [Zakim]
14:33:11 [Zakim]
14:33:12 [ChrisR]
ChrisR has left #tsdtf
14:33:13 [Zakim]
14:33:17 [Zakim]
14:33:20 [Zakim]
14:33:21 [Zakim]
WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM has ended
14:33:22 [Zakim]
Attendees were Shadi, Cooper, Christophe_Strobbe, Vangelis_Karkaletsis, Chris, berrueta, CarlosV, +1.202.789.aaaa, Tim_Boland
14:33:33 [shadi]
zakim, bye
14:33:33 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #tsdtf
14:33:42 [shadi]
rrsagent, make logs world
14:33:46 [shadi]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:33:46 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate shadi
14:33:48 [shadi]
rrsagent, make logs world
14:33:52 [shadi]
rrsagent, bye
14:33:52 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items saved in :
14:33:52 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Shadi to explore wiki option [1]
14:33:52 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
14:33:52 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Carlos V to send question to list about software [2]
14:33:52 [RRSAgent]
recorded in