IRC log of sweo on 2006-11-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:58:03 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #sweo
15:58:03 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/11/29-sweo-irc
15:58:08 [LeeF]
zakim, this will be SWEO
15:58:08 [Zakim]
ok, LeeF; I see SW_SWEO()11:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
15:58:20 [LeeF]
zakim, code?
15:58:20 [Zakim]
the conference code is 7936 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), LeeF
15:58:31 [davidr]
davidr has joined #sweo
15:58:39 [Zakim]
SW_SWEO()11:00AM has now started
15:58:46 [Zakim]
+[IBMCambridge]
15:58:52 [Zakim]
+??P5
15:58:57 [LeeF]
zakim, IBMCambridge is wing
15:58:57 [Zakim]
+wing; got it
15:59:33 [Zakim]
+ +1.631.205.aaaa
16:00:15 [Zakim]
+Lee_Feigenbaum
16:00:19 [LeeF]
Zakim, Lee_Feigenbaum is me
16:00:20 [Zakim]
+LeeF; got it
16:00:42 [Zakim]
+??P10
16:00:47 [LeeF]
zakim, who's on the phone?
16:00:47 [Zakim]
On the phone I see wing, ??P5, +1.631.205.aaaa, LeeF, ??P10
16:00:57 [Zakim]
+??P11
16:01:28 [Zakim]
+ +1.781.273.aabb
16:01:29 [Zakim]
+ +1.316.393.aacc
16:01:38 [kidehen]
kidehen has joined #sweo
16:01:44 [Zakim]
+??P15
16:02:01 [LeeF]
Zakim, P15 is davidr
16:02:01 [Zakim]
sorry, LeeF, I do not recognize a party named 'P15'
16:02:08 [LeeF]
Zakim, ??p15 is davidr
16:02:08 [Zakim]
+davidr; got it
16:02:26 [LeeF]
Zakim, 781 is kingsley
16:02:26 [Zakim]
sorry, LeeF, I do not recognize a party named '781'
16:02:35 [LeeF]
zakim, aabb is Kingsley
16:02:36 [Zakim]
+Kingsley; got it
16:02:43 [uldis]
uldis has joined #sweo
16:03:06 [kidehen]
Kingsley is kidehen :-)
16:03:14 [LeeF]
zakim, kingsley is kidehen
16:03:14 [Zakim]
+kidehen; got it
16:03:17 [LeeF]
sorry :-)
16:03:28 [LeeF]
Scribe: davidr
16:03:32 [LeeF]
ScribeNick: davidr
16:03:36 [LeeF]
Chair: Susie
16:03:41 [LeeF]
Meeting: SWEO Weekly
16:03:45 [Zakim]
+??P21
16:04:13 [LeeF]
zakim, ??P21 is Uldis_Bojars
16:04:13 [Zakim]
+Uldis_Bojars; got it
16:04:18 [davidr]
susie: begins meeting and summarises todays objectives
16:04:33 [LeeF]
Regrets: IvanH, Karen, Pasquale, Paul_Miller, Martiz_Dzbor
16:05:06 [LeeF]
Zakim, aacc is Jeff_Schiffel
16:05:06 [Zakim]
+Jeff_Schiffel; got it
16:05:25 [davidr]
susie: Leo joins SWEO - please introduce yourself
16:05:34 [LeeF]
Zakim, ??P11 is Sami_Bhiri
16:05:34 [Zakim]
+Sami_Bhiri; got it
16:05:49 [LeeF]
Zakim, Uldis_Bojars is uldis
16:05:49 [Zakim]
+uldis; got it
16:06:05 [LeeF]
zakim, who's on the phone?
16:06:05 [Zakim]
On the phone I see wing, ??P5, +1.631.205.aaaa, LeeF, ??P10, Sami_Bhiri, kidehen, Jeff_Schiffel, davidr, uldis
16:06:12 [LeeF]
zakim, ??P5 is Susie
16:06:13 [Zakim]
+Susie; got it
16:06:38 [davidr]
susie: main item of work is getting the questionnaire finished
16:06:38 [LeeF]
zakim, ??P10 is Ina
16:06:38 [Zakim]
+Ina; got it
16:06:49 [leobard]
leobard has joined #SWEO
16:06:51 [davidr]
susie: question have been posted to wiki for comment
16:07:12 [davidr]
susie: a few comments have been made which we need to reivew
16:07:16 [LeeF]
zakim, who's on the phone?
16:07:16 [Zakim]
On the phone I see wing, Susie, +1.631.205.aaaa, LeeF, Ina, Sami_Bhiri, kidehen, Jeff_Schiffel, davidr, uldis
16:07:34 [davidr]
susie: we need to get the questions to a point where we can send them out
16:07:55 [leobard]
LeeF: germany, DFKI phone +49 631 205 ..
16:08:11 [LeeF]
zakim, aaaa is leobard
16:08:11 [Zakim]
+leobard; got it
16:08:12 [davidr]
susie: comment 1: can we add 'what does the semantic werb mean to you?'
16:08:26 [davidr]
s/werb/web
16:09:24 [Susie]
http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/TaskForces/CoreMessaging
16:09:35 [davidr]
susie: comment 2: can we add 'how do you think your organisation could benefit from semantic technologies?'
16:09:43 [Zakim]
+ +30273aadd
16:10:18 [davidr]
lee: good questions buit i dont think they are going to give us much
16:10:55 [davidr]
susie: lets stick with the initital set of questions
16:12:18 [davidr]
susie: there were some other question proposals
16:12:56 [davidr]
susie: we decided at the f2f that if we require more detailed responses we would send out a follow-up querstionnaire
16:13:09 [LeeF]
Zakim, aadd is Orri
16:13:09 [Zakim]
+Orri; got it
16:13:48 [davidr]
s/querstionnaire/questionnaire
16:14:12 [davidr]
susie: the questions we have are ready for review
16:15:23 [davidr]
susie: should we send out audience to broader audience or just vendors/w3c memebers
16:15:39 [davidr]
s/audience/questionnaire
16:16:41 [davidr]
wing: i agree that we should send to a broader audience, but we may only get responses from those passionate for sw
16:17:38 [davidr]
susie: think we need to discuss this further
16:18:16 [Ina]
Ina has joined #SWEO
16:19:17 [sami]
sami has joined #SWEO
16:19:19 [davidr]
susie: we're hoping for about 75% response rate from the questionnaires
16:21:38 [davidr]
susie: ... onto outreach to developer community
16:22:03 [leobard]
whats the name of the suggested person to lead it?
16:22:15 [davidr]
susie: was hoping that Paul Walsh would be on the call
16:22:15 [wing]
paul walsh
16:23:31 [wing]
davidr: Paul is currently the chair of BIMA (British Interactive Media Association), has a lot of Web2.0 contacts
16:26:46 [davidr]
susie: we decided during f2f that sw and web2.0 are very complimentary
16:27:44 [davidr]
lee: there is a difference between wwb developers and high level web communities
16:28:10 [davidr]
lee: there is different messaging required depending on who we are approaching
16:28:52 [davidr]
susie: we got 2 main groups, enterprise & developers/web2.0
16:29:26 [davidr]
susie: messaging should be tailored to the community we are targetting
16:30:56 [kidehen]
Susie: Link please :-)
16:31:45 [davidr]
susie: lets focus on web community for now, Paul Walsh has expressed an interest in leading this
16:31:51 [LeeF]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:31:52 [Zakim]
On the phone I see wing, Susie, leobard, LeeF, Ina, Sami_Bhiri, kidehen, Jeff_Schiffel, davidr, uldis, Orri
16:32:01 [LeeF]
zakim, Sami_Bhiri is sami
16:32:01 [Zakim]
+sami; got it
16:32:24 [davidr]
susie: Danny Ayers has offered to lead the software demo aspect
16:32:29 [leobard]
who leads "hands on"?
16:33:21 [kidehen]
LeeF: It was kidehen speaking
16:34:26 [davidr]
susie: if anyone knows of anyone who should be added to the 'key people' list then let me know
16:34:50 [davidr]
susie: when should we approach these people?
16:35:23 [davidr]
susie: PW suggested getting TBL to do some interviews with bloggers
16:36:20 [davidr]
susie: maybe we can bounce ideas off the friendly people first before sending out to community at large
16:38:05 [davidr]
kidehen: SW architecture (RDF-XML) is difficult to understand and not helping our cause. we should address this. lets get a very clear diagram of the SW.
16:38:43 [uldis]
not so much all architecture than RDF-XML in particular
16:39:11 [davidr]
susie: we're hoping that the questionnaire will help us acheive this
16:39:49 [davidr]
susie: does anyone want to draft up a 'myth busting' document?
16:39:52 [LeeF]
I think we should be wary about assuming we know why people object to SW. I've heard SW community people repeat "RDF/XML is the problem!" so often now that I'm tempted to think it's somewhat urban legend. (This is reinforced by my personal experience talking to people w/ SW reservations.)
16:40:00 [davidr]
susie: anyone?
16:40:34 [leobard]
we could show how simple rdf/xml can be, for example: http://esw.w3.org/topic/SimpleRdfXml
16:41:19 [LeeF]
e.g., I seriously doubt that Tim O'reilly's primary objections to the Semantic Web surround RDF/XML (though I'd be thrilled to be enlightened otherwise, as it's such an easy myth to dispel!)
16:41:20 [uldis]
leobard: xml serialisations are confusing in general, make one think of xml first and get stuck on this idea
16:41:24 [uldis]
N3 is better
16:41:31 [davidr]
susie: back to web outreach...
16:41:49 [kidehen]
LeeF: The RDF/XML issue is a problem because it permeates all Semantic Web Material
16:42:20 [LeeF]
is it this?
16:42:20 [LeeF]
http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/diagrams/sweb-stack/2006a.png
16:42:59 [wing]
I agree with LeeF; we should wait until we have some real responses from people, otherwise we can guess at what people don't like until we're blue in the face
16:44:44 [davidr]
who is talking?
16:44:52 [uldis]
kidehen
16:44:59 [davidr]
thanks
16:45:34 [davidr]
kidehen: getting architecture diagram right gives us a great launching pad for getting messaging right
16:46:03 [leobard]
tool-suggestion: dia (open source)
16:46:20 [davidr]
ive used dia, its not bad
16:46:33 [leobard]
http://www.gnome.org/projects/dia/
16:46:33 [uldis]
wing: first questionaires will be very generic and there's no guarantee that RDF/XML issues will appear in the answers even if people are thinking of RDF mainly as XML. There's also a possibility they are not aware that this is a misconception
16:46:59 [uldis]
followup questionaires can provide more details
16:48:04 [wing]
http://wingerz.com/semweb/layer.png
16:48:16 [LeeF]
wing: LOL
16:48:58 [davidr]
:)
16:49:05 [Susie]
http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/TaskForces/InfoGathering
16:49:52 [uldis]
wing: :D [is that a red duct tape? ;) ]
16:50:03 [Zakim]
This conference is scheduled to end in 10 minutes; all ports must be freed
16:50:19 [wing]
LeeF: Done
16:51:12 [davidr]
leo: we need to outreach to the db & dev guys differently
16:51:47 [davidr]
leo: e.g. getting started with the SW for a DB and getting started with the SW for a DEV
16:53:48 [davidr]
kidenhen: if we can we should take what we already have (tutorials, demos etc) and build on top of that
16:55:04 [Zakim]
This conference is scheduled to end in 5 minutes; all ports must be freed
16:56:01 [davidr]
susie: at f2f we decided to get the core messaging right first and then customise for different levels of the business tier, different industries etc
16:57:21 [sami]
sami has joined #SWEO
16:58:04 [Zakim]
This conference is scheduled to end in 2 minutes; all ports must be freed
16:58:38 [LeeF]
Zakim, can we have more time, please?
16:58:39 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, LeeF.
16:58:42 [LeeF]
yeah i didn't think you would
16:58:59 [davidr]
LOL
16:59:02 [Zakim]
This conference is scheduled to end in 1 minute; 8 ports must be freed
16:59:09 [LeeF]
Zakim, give it up
16:59:09 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'give it up', LeeF
16:59:25 [wing]
Zakim, LeeF
16:59:25 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'LeeF', wing
16:59:43 [leobard]
sorry, who was talking?
16:59:52 [LeeF]
That was kidehen
16:59:57 [leobard]
thx
17:00:01 [Zakim]
This conference is scheduled to end now; 8 ports must be freed immediately
17:00:07 [Zakim]
The time reserved for this conference has been exceeded. 8 ports must be freed
17:00:17 [LeeF]
Zakim, reserve more time
17:00:18 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'reserve more time', LeeF
17:00:23 [LeeF]
zakim, extend conference
17:00:23 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'extend conference', LeeF
17:00:58 [davidr]
zakim, chill out
17:01:03 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'chill out', davidr
17:01:19 [leobard]
susie: suggestion was to use del.icio.us and tags to gather links
17:01:27 [leobard]
susie: suggested tag is w3csweo
17:02:08 [Zakim]
-Susie
17:02:09 [Zakim]
-Orri
17:02:10 [Zakim]
-Ina
17:02:11 [Zakim]
-leobard
17:02:11 [Zakim]
-Jeff_Schiffel
17:02:13 [Zakim]
-sami
17:02:14 [Zakim]
-kidehen
17:02:15 [Zakim]
-LeeF
17:02:17 [Zakim]
-uldis
17:02:21 [Zakim]
-wing
17:02:22 [Zakim]
-davidr
17:02:23 [Zakim]
SW_SWEO()11:00AM has ended
17:02:25 [Zakim]
Attendees were wing, +1.631.205.aaaa, LeeF, +1.781.273.aabb, +1.316.393.aacc, davidr, kidehen, Jeff_Schiffel, uldis, Susie, Ina, leobard, +30273aadd, Orri, sami
17:02:36 [Susie]
ACTION: Susie to send questionnaires to W3C PR for review
17:03:08 [Susie]
ACTION: Susie to write cover letter for questionnaires
17:03:51 [Susie]
ACTION: Kingsley to send comments on the layer cake to mailing list
17:04:02 [wing]
wing has left #sweo
17:04:20 [Susie]
ACTION: Susie to post 'myths' to the Wiki
17:06:08 [Susie]
ACTION: Orri to draft follow up questionnaires that are targeted to application areas.
17:06:58 [Susie]
I believe that's all the new action items.
17:07:09 [uldis]
uldis has left #sweo
17:07:17 [Susie]
Lee - It'd be great if you could help make sure that the minutes are saved
17:09:08 [LeeF]
Yup
17:09:15 [LeeF]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:09:15 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/11/29-sweo-minutes.html LeeF
17:09:23 [LeeF]
RRSAgent, make logs world-access
17:09:37 [LeeF]
RRSAgent, stop logging
17:09:37 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'stop logging', LeeF. Try /msg RRSAgent help
17:09:42 [LeeF]
RRSAgent, stop