14:26:07 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:26:07 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/11/28-dawg-irc
14:26:11 <jeen> pfft. no qualified names....
14:26:32 <AndyS> I'm qualified.
14:27:07 <kendallclark> zakim, agenda+ convene, boot up
14:27:07 <Zakim> agendum 1 added
14:27:21 <kendallclark> zakim, agenda+ action items (this is prolly a no-op)
14:27:21 <Zakim> agendum 2 added
14:27:23 <AndyS> Meeting: RDF Data Access WG meeting
14:27:30 <AndyS> Chair: Kendall Clark
14:27:37 <AndyS> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0166
14:27:44 <AndyS> Scribe: Andy Seaborne
14:27:49 <AndyS> ScribeNick: AndyS
14:28:41 <LeeF> Zakim, code?
14:28:41 <Zakim> sorry, LeeF, I don't know what conference this is
14:28:47 <LeeF> zakim, this will be DAWG
14:28:47 <Zakim> ok, LeeF, I see SW_DAWG()9:30AM already started
14:28:50 <LeeF> zakim, code?
14:28:50 <Zakim> the conference code is 7333 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), LeeF
14:29:00 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:29:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P4
14:29:09 <AndyS> zakim, ??P4 is me
14:29:09 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:29:36 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:29:37 <Zakim> +[IBMCambridge]
14:29:39 <kendallclark> after 3 years, i forget the code! :)
14:29:40 <LeeF> zakim, IBMCambridge is me
14:29:40 <Zakim> +LeeF; got it
14:29:46 <jeen> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
14:29:46 <Zakim> +jeen; got it
14:29:47 <Zakim> +Kendall_Clark
14:29:49 <kendallclark> 2, 3, wahtever it's been
14:29:59 <kendallclark> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:29:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, jeen, LeeF, Kendall_Clark
14:30:14 <AndyS> It's RDFF.
14:30:19 <kendallclark> heh
14:30:23 <kendallclark> i didn't know that!
14:31:46 <Zakim> +Sandro
14:31:54 <AndyS> KC: little email traffic for 2 weeks leads to a short agenda each week
14:31:57 <ericP> zakim, Sandro is ericP
14:31:58 <Zakim> +ericP; got it
14:32:42 <kendallclark> zakim, agenda+ test suite
14:32:42 <Zakim> agendum 3 added
14:32:55 <patH> patH has joined #dawg
14:33:25 <AndyS> Also: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/rq24-algebra.html
14:33:43 <kendallclark> agenda+ duplicate answers
14:33:43 <AndyS> EricP: Q about duplictae answers and bNodes in BGPs
14:34:07 <Zakim> +PatH
14:34:16 <kendallclark> agenda+ algebra updates
14:34:44 <kendallclark> zakim, agenda?
14:34:44 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
14:34:45 <Zakim> 1. convene, boot up [from kendallclark]
14:34:46 <Zakim> 2. action items (this is prolly a no-op) [from kendallclark]
14:34:47 <Zakim> 3. test suite [from kendallclark]
14:34:48 <Zakim> 4. duplicate answers [from kendallclark]
14:34:49 <Zakim> 5. algebra updates [from kendallclark]
14:35:03 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:35:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, jeen, LeeF, Kendall_Clark, ericP, PatH
14:35:16 <AndyS> Present:  AndyS, jeen, LeeF, Kendall_Clark, ericP, PatH
14:35:25 <AndyS> Regrets: none so far
14:35:36 <kendallclark> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/att-0167/21-dawg-minutes.html
14:35:36 <AndyS> ... Elias will be along soon.
14:36:13 <AndyS> Minutes accepted.
14:36:31 <AndyS> RESOLVED to accept the minutes of Nov 21.
14:36:50 <AndyS> AndyS available.
14:36:57 <AndyS> Pat (for some of the time)
14:37:06 <AndyS> Eric notes it's during XML2006.
14:37:28 <AndyS> Scribe: EricP
14:37:35 <kendallclark> zakim, take up agendum 2
14:37:35 <Zakim> agendum 2. "action items (this is prolly a no-op)" taken up [from kendallclark]
14:37:36 <AndyS> Scribe next time: EricP
14:37:51 <kendallclark> ACTION: ericP to bring up test on bags for next meeting.
14:38:07 <kendallclark> ACTION: ericP to seek clarification on  http://www.w3.org/mod/20061110085518567.00000002912@bmacgregor1
14:38:09 <AndyS> DONE
14:38:19 <AndyS> DONE action 1
14:38:39 <AndyS> ACTION: ericP to seek clarification on http://www.w3.org/mod/20061110085518567.00000002912@bmacgregor1
14:38:42 <AndyS> CONTINUES
14:38:52 <AndyS> (scribe will clear the mess up later :-)
14:39:12 <kendallclark> ACTION: KendallC to close formsOfDistinct issue
14:39:25 <kendallclark> ACTION: PatH to review the proposed tests in  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JulSep/0169  and say yay or nay
14:39:45 <kendallclark> PatH to draft replacement vanilla entailment section for WG consideration
14:39:51 <AndyS> ACTION: PatH to draft replacement vanilla entailment section for WG consideration
14:40:01 <AndyS> CONTINUES
14:40:27 <AndyS> Related : http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0140.html
14:40:50 <kendallclark> ACTION: KendallC to remember that the wee, lost filter tests should be put to the question (re:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0099.html  ) 
14:41:18 <kendallclark> zakim, take up next agendum
14:41:18 <Zakim> agendum 1. "convene, boot up" taken up [from kendallclark]
14:41:20 <kendallclark> zakim, take up next agendum
14:41:20 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, kendallclark
14:41:25 <kendallclark> zakim, take up agendum 3
14:41:25 <Zakim> agendum 3. "test suite" taken up [from kendallclark]
14:42:10 <AndyS> KC: An output of the WG
14:42:34 <AndyS> ... issue is now where we are in procss terms on this.  Figure out where we go next.
14:43:43 <patH> Jeen said 'eep'
14:43:55 <kendallclark> which i tried to turn into "yes"
14:45:06 <AndyS> Lee: does Eric / Andy have a timeline for the QL spec?
14:45:08 <kendallclark> EliasT: where you going to work on test suite?
14:45:56 <jeen> (dunno what's wrong) anyway, I'd be happy to spend time on test suite, particularly on isolating a set of tests specifically for use in testing a SPARQL parser implementation and a SPARQL engine implementation. Mostly that means sorting out old tests, etc.
14:46:53 <AndyS> AndyS: timeline - algebra mostly there -need integration into doc. 
14:47:17 <AndyS> ... discussion on the algebra can be now.
14:47:25 <AndyS> ... integration wil be in the new year.
14:47:56 <AndyS> ... test suite process can be done now - most tests not affected. 
14:48:34 <AndyS> KC: Need a process owner.
14:48:53 <ericP> we need a mom
14:48:58 <AndyS> ... coordinate work as the chair changes (swivels?)
14:49:01 <ericP> well, the tests do
14:49:21 <AndyS> Lee: will talk to Elias.
14:49:54 <jeen> ok, I give up.
14:50:08 <patH> Jeen might try tapping out morse. 
14:50:10 <AndyS> I've been using a test suite for the algebra and have some new corner cases (just 3)  Rest of tests went through fine.
14:50:33 <AndyS> KC: Thinks Jeen is agreeing to be the owner
14:50:41 <kendallclark> wonderful
14:50:44 <AndyS> ... Jeen agrees to take the lead.
14:50:44 <EliasT> I was working on the "protocol" test suite and be of help to jeen as I last recalled.
14:50:45 <LeeF> AndyS, when you say "rest of tests", what exactly do you mean? (considering that some tests seem to be completely broken?)
14:51:11 <AndyS> All the DAWG tests I think are valid (approved and unapproved) + my own.
14:51:23 <LeeF> I see.
14:51:26 <AndyS> ~ 500.
14:52:23 <jeen> ok but I don't know a deadline
14:52:27 <AndyS> ??? ACTION: Jeen propose test suite process.
14:52:32 <jeen> ah ok
14:52:42 <AndyS> ... does not imply "do it all"
14:52:49 <jeen> phew :)
14:52:54 <AndyS> ACTION: Jeen propose test suite process (not do it all).
14:53:00 <kendallclark> zakim, take up agendum 4
14:53:00 <Zakim> agendum 4. "duplicate answers" taken up [from kendallclark]
14:53:08 <kendallclark> zakim, agendum?
14:53:08 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, kendallclark.
14:53:13 <kendallclark> zakim, agenda?
14:53:13 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
14:53:14 <Zakim> 1. convene, boot up [from kendallclark]
14:53:15 <Zakim> 3. test suite [from kendallclark]
14:53:16 <Zakim> 4. duplicate answers [from kendallclark]
14:53:17 <Zakim> 5. algebra updates [from kendallclark]
14:53:41 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#rdfsemantics-bnode-type-var
14:54:01 <AndyS> EricP: bad laptop
14:54:12 <kendallclark> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0164.html
14:54:18 <patH> Im having trouble hearing Eric.
14:54:19 <kendallclark> start of the thread
14:54:41 <AndyS> q+ (after Eric finishes) to ask Pat about existentials and counting
14:54:50 <AndyS> q+ to ask Pat about existentials and counting
14:55:00 <AndyS> (after Eric finishes)
14:55:13 <patH> I can't folow the audio at this point. 
14:55:44 <kendallclark> it's hard to hear Eric today
14:55:49 <kendallclark> ack AndyS
14:55:49 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask Pat about existentials and counting
14:56:25 <AndyS> Data: { :a :p 1. :a :p 2 .}
14:56:39 <AndyS> Query: :a :p []
14:56:48 <AndyS> Query: ?a :p []
14:57:14 <AndyS> Q is whether you get one answer or two?
14:57:50 <AndyS> Query: ?a :p ?v
14:57:53 <ericP> :a   or   :a, :a
14:58:55 <ericP> (compare to (:a 1)   vs,   (:a 1),(:a 2))
14:58:57 <LeeF> What do current implementations do? (Mine treats bnodes as unprojected variables.)
14:59:10 <ericP> mine does as well
14:59:10 <jeen> That's what we do as well
14:59:17 <AndyS> ARQ can do either - but woudl like a decision :-)
14:59:27 <AndyS> Pat: instinct - get two
14:59:30 <LeeF> ARQ is so wishy-washy ;-)
15:00:59 <LeeF> I wonder who (specific orgs or general communities) will object to treating blank nodes as unprojected variables -- Will the DL community object to that?
15:01:18 <kendallclark> (I don't think it will.)
15:01:54 <AndyS> I think we are defining for simple entailment only.  DL replaces the whole of BGP matching with what it wants.  There is no overall constraints on dups.
15:01:59 <kendallclark> (well, it won't if that can be made compatible w/ sparql-dl, which doesn't exist yet except in people's heads)
15:02:04 <LeeF> Oh right, Andy, thanks. 
15:02:16 <AndyS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0140
15:03:04 <ericP> +1 on duplicates for many reasons
15:03:39 <AndyS> Pat: duplicates make no difference to semantics.
15:03:58 <AndyS> ... reports Bijan woudl be happy with that (absence of DISTINCT)
15:04:41 <AndyS> KC: hers agreement
15:04:44 <AndyS> KC: hears agreement
15:05:01 <ericP> perhaps approve the test first
15:05:19 <kendallclark> first or second, no matter, i think
15:07:12 <AndyS> This editor is informed by the consensus hear
15:07:40 <AndyS> AndyS: wil try to incorporate Jorge's style of approach: wil wait for Pat's text.
15:08:00 <ericP> PROPOSED: approve http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#rdfsemantics-bnode-type-var
15:08:33 <LeeF> Seconded.
15:08:46 <jeen> Seconded
15:08:52 <ericP> steve and andy have both tried it in their impls
15:09:41 <ericP> or at least, that's the feedback i got a while ago
15:09:46 <kendallclark> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:09:46 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, jeen, LeeF, Kendall_Clark, ericP, PatH
15:09:59 <AndyS> Goods OK to me (scanning the HTML)
15:10:12 <AndyS> RESOLVED
15:10:16 <kendallclark> 0 abstensions or objections
15:11:32 <kendallclark> zakim, agenda
15:11:32 <Zakim> I don't understand 'agenda', kendallclark
15:11:34 <kendallclark> zakim, agenda?
15:11:34 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
15:11:35 <Zakim> 1. convene, boot up [from kendallclark]
15:11:37 <Zakim> 3. test suite [from kendallclark]
15:11:38 <Zakim> 4. duplicate answers [from kendallclark]
15:11:39 <Zakim> 5. algebra updates [from kendallclark]
15:11:52 <ericP> zakim, take up next agendum
15:11:52 <Zakim> agendum 1. "convene, boot up" taken up [from kendallclark]
15:12:02 <kendallclark> zakim, take up agendum 5
15:12:02 <Zakim> agendum 5. "algebra updates" taken up [from kendallclark]
15:12:07 <kendallclark> eric: i hate zakim! :)
15:12:24 <ericP> andy: am hppy with structure. looking for comments on the design
15:12:25 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/rq24-algebra.html
15:13:45 <ericP> i think i can fix the last query publication CSS
15:15:06 <ericP> i"m afraid to commit
15:15:15 <AndyS> CSS changes don't change the semantics :-)
15:15:15 <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF to review http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/rq24-algebra.html
15:15:43 <jeen> uhm.... (closes eyes, takes deep breath) yes, action me.
15:16:05 <AndyS> ACTION: Jeen review rq24-algebra
15:17:08 <ericP> +1 to adjourn
15:17:17 <AndyS> ADJOURN
15:17:27 <AndyS> Meet next time - one week - Eric to scribe
15:17:30 <jeen> ok, seeya all.
15:17:34 <kendallclark> ciao
15:17:36 <Zakim> -PatH
15:17:37 <AndyS> rrsagent, please draft the minutes
15:17:37 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'please draft the minutes', AndyS.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:17:40 <Zakim> -Kendall_Clark
15:17:41 <patH> byebyee
15:17:45 <AndyS> rrsagent, draft the minutes
15:17:45 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft the minutes', AndyS.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:17:54 <Zakim> -LeeF
15:18:07 <ericP> zakim, log?
15:18:07 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, ericP.
15:18:21 <ericP> zakim, please draft minutes
15:18:21 <Zakim> I don't understand 'please draft minutes', ericP
15:18:23 <Zakim> -jeen
15:18:29 <ericP> zakim, please ...
15:18:29 <Zakim> I don't understand 'please', ericP
15:18:31 <AndyS> rrsagent, please make logs world readable
15:18:31 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'please make logs world readable', AndyS.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:18:47 <AndyS> rrsagent, please make logs world-visible
15:19:12 <AndyS> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:19:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/11/28-dawg-minutes.html AndyS
15:21:08 <AndyS> rrsagent, please leave
15:21:08 <RRSAgent> I see 10 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/28-dawg-actions.rdf :
15:21:08 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ericP to bring up test on bags for next meeting. [1]
15:21:08 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/28-dawg-irc#T14-37-51
15:21:08 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ericP to seek clarification on  http://www.w3.org/mod/20061110085518567.00000002912@bmacgregor1 [2]
15:21:08 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/28-dawg-irc#T14-38-07
15:21:08 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ericP to seek clarification on http://www.w3.org/mod/20061110085518567.00000002912@bmacgregor1 [3]
15:21:08 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/28-dawg-irc#T14-38-39
15:21:08 <RRSAgent> ACTION: KendallC to close formsOfDistinct issue [4]
15:21:08 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/28-dawg-irc#T14-39-12
15:21:08 <RRSAgent> ACTION: PatH to review the proposed tests in  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JulSep/0169  and say yay or nay [5]
15:21:08 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/28-dawg-irc#T14-39-25
15:21:08 <RRSAgent> ACTION: PatH to draft replacement vanilla entailment section for WG consideration [6]
15:21:08 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/28-dawg-irc#T14-39-51
15:21:08 <RRSAgent> ACTION: KendallC to remember that the wee, lost filter tests should be put to the question (re:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0099.html  )  [7]
15:21:08 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/28-dawg-irc#T14-40-50
15:21:08 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jeen propose test suite process (not do it all). [8]
15:21:08 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/28-dawg-irc#T14-52-54
15:21:08 <RRSAgent> ACTION: LeeF to review http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/rq24-algebra.html [9]
15:21:08 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/28-dawg-irc#T15-15-15-1
15:21:08 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jeen review rq24-algebra [10]
15:21:08 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/28-dawg-irc#T15-16-05
15:21:16 <AndyS> zakim, please leave
15:21:16 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were AndyS, LeeF, jeen, Kendall_Clark, ericP, PatH
15:21:16 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dawg
15:21:18 <ericP> cheers