IRC log of sweo on 2006-11-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:41:39 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #sweo
15:41:39 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/11/22-sweo-irc
15:41:47 [ivan]
zakim, this will be sweo
15:41:47 [Zakim]
ok, ivan; I see SW_SWEO()11:00AM scheduled to start in 19 minutes
15:41:56 [ivan]
rrsagent, set log public
15:42:06 [ivan]
Chair: Susie
15:42:15 [ivan]
Meeting: SW Education and Outreach IG Telco
15:44:18 [ivan]
agenda+ Overview of the f2f meeting
15:44:24 [ivan]
agenda+ review of action items
15:44:31 [ivan]
agenda+ intro to IRC
15:49:32 [martind]
martind has joined #SWEO
15:53:46 [LeeF]
LeeF has joined #sweo
15:55:07 [ivan]
Hi Lee!
15:55:11 [ivan]
(and the others)
15:55:18 [LeeF]
hello, hello
15:57:13 [Zakim]
SW_SWEO()11:00AM has now started
15:57:20 [Zakim]
+ +1.781.273.aaaa
15:57:26 [Susie]
Susie has joined #sweo
15:57:42 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.970.aabb
15:58:09 [ivan]
zakim, dial ivan-home
15:58:09 [Zakim]
ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:58:10 [Zakim]
+Ivan
15:58:21 [ivan]
???
15:58:28 [ivan]
zakim does not call me:-(
15:58:33 [ivan]
zakim, drop ivan
15:58:33 [Zakim]
Ivan is being disconnected
15:58:35 [Zakim]
-Ivan
15:58:40 [ivan]
zakim, dial ivan-home
15:58:40 [Zakim]
ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:58:42 [Zakim]
+Ivan
15:59:04 [ivan]
zakim, drop ivan
15:59:04 [Zakim]
Ivan is being disconnected
15:59:05 [Zakim]
-Ivan
15:59:16 [ivan]
zakim, code?
15:59:16 [Zakim]
the conference code is 7936 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), ivan
15:59:31 [Zakim]
+??P7
15:59:58 [Zakim]
+??P8
16:00:04 [Zakim]
+??P4
16:00:06 [Zakim]
+??P5
16:00:45 [ivan]
zakim, aaaa is kidehen
16:00:58 [Zakim]
+??P14
16:01:00 [Zakim]
+kidehen; got it
16:01:24 [davidr]
davidr has joined #sweo
16:01:24 [Zakim]
+Karen
16:01:30 [ivan]
zakim, aabb is wing
16:01:30 [Zakim]
+wing; got it
16:01:42 [ivan]
zakim, P7 is ivan
16:01:42 [Zakim]
sorry, ivan, I do not recognize a party named 'P7'
16:01:48 [ivan]
zakim, ??P7 is ivan
16:01:49 [Zakim]
+ivan; got it
16:01:58 [ivan]
zakim, ??P8 is susie
16:01:58 [Zakim]
+susie; got it
16:02:24 [Zakim]
+LeeF
16:02:32 [Karen]
Karen has joined #sweo
16:02:41 [uldis]
uldis bojars
16:02:44 [ivan]
zakim, ??P4 is uldi
16:02:44 [Zakim]
+uldi; got it
16:02:45 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
16:02:52 [Karen]
Karen Myers, W3C
16:02:52 [LeeF]
zakim, mute me
16:02:52 [Zakim]
LeeF should now be muted
16:03:07 [ivan]
zakim, ??P14 is ina
16:03:07 [Zakim]
+ina; got it
16:03:16 [ivan]
zakim, who is here?
16:03:16 [Zakim]
On the phone I see kidehen, wing, ivan, susie, uldi, ??P5, ina, Karen, LeeF (muted), [IPcaller]
16:03:19 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Karen, davidr, Susie, LeeF, martind, RRSAgent, Zakim, ivan, uldis, kidehen
16:03:31 [davidr]
zakim, ipcaller is davdr
16:03:32 [Zakim]
+davdr; got it
16:03:39 [ivan]
zakim, ??P5 martin
16:03:48 [Zakim]
I don't understand '??P5 martin', ivan
16:03:57 [ivan]
zakim, ??P5 is martin
16:04:03 [uldis]
zakim, ??P4 is uldis
16:04:04 [Zakim]
+martin; got it
16:04:12 [Zakim]
I already had ??P4 as uldi, uldis
16:04:17 [davidr]
zakim, davdr is really davidr
16:04:17 [Zakim]
+davidr; got it
16:04:44 [Zakim]
+ +31.30.273.aacc
16:05:13 [kidehen]
Orri Erling
16:05:32 [ivan]
zakim, aacc is orri
16:05:33 [Zakim]
+orri; got it
16:05:51 [ivan]
i am muted
16:06:00 [ivan]
so I have to shut up!
16:06:31 [Zakim]
+Sandro
16:07:20 [ivan]
Scribe: ivan
16:07:26 [ivan]
agenda?
16:07:43 [ivan]
Topic: short introduction
16:08:20 [ivan]
susie: we have a number of new people who joined us, just a brief introduction
16:08:26 [iomurchu]
iomurchu has joined #SWEO
16:08:27 [uldis]
zakim, unmute uldi
16:08:27 [Zakim]
uldi was not muted, uldis
16:08:40 [ivan]
... I do not think that kingsley done before
16:08:51 [wyung]
wyung has joined #sweo
16:09:00 [ivan]
kinksley: i work both on the entreprise and the vendor side
16:09:08 [ivan]
... typical web2.0 profile
16:09:28 [ivan]
... we see data integration with shared ontologies as a major benefit of the sw that should be projected to the community
16:09:43 [ivan]
... it is also a nice bridge to the web2.0 community
16:10:19 [ivan]
... (scribe is lost by the speed:-(
16:10:53 [ivan]
s/kingsley/kingsley/
16:11:10 [ivan]
uldi: i am from deri ireland
16:11:18 [ivan]
... i am from the sw cluster there
16:11:30 [ivan]
... we feel need for outreach and education in sw
16:11:50 [ivan]
... we need industry and people to understand it better and that it does not have to be as complex as it seems now
16:11:57 [ivan]
... i work now in sioc
16:12:17 [ivan]
... it aims at making the communities interlinked on the sw
16:12:32 [ivan]
... lots of tools come from that project for people outside
16:12:46 [ivan]
... my interest started before sw
16:13:00 [ivan]
ina: i just completed my masters at deri
16:13:10 [ivan]
... i am a researcher there
16:13:23 [ivan]
martin: i am from the open university uk,
16:13:29 [kidehen]
ivan: I called it CYOK and Uldis calls it SHOCK in both cases we are referring to Semantically-Interlined Online Communities shared Ontology :-
16:13:32 [kidehen]
:-)
16:13:49 [kidehen]
SIOC basically
16:13:55 [uldis]
interest on sw started before joining deri
16:14:16 [ivan]
(will link the intro link to the minutes)
16:14:19 [uldis]
and been on #swig as CaptSolo since 2002
16:14:31 [kidehen]
ivan: http://sioc-project.org/
16:15:12 [ivan]
karen: i am at w3c, member relations and development, i have joined this ig as a resource capacity
16:15:19 [Susie]
Regrets – Michael Wilson, Steve Harris, John Davies, Ian Davis, Pasquale Popolizio
16:15:21 [ivan]
... i have a background in communication
16:15:32 [ivan]
ori: from openlink sw
16:15:40 [ivan]
... i am a database techie by background
16:15:49 [LeeF]
s/ori/orri
16:15:54 [uldis]
LeeF: does 'shock' sound bad? (i suggested we stay on one pronounciation, but kidehen says 'shock' does not sound good in north america)
16:15:55 [ivan]
... most recently optimizing for the support of sparql
16:15:58 [kidehen]
Ivan: Orri Erling
16:16:08 [ivan]
... I have background in knowledge representation
16:16:24 [ivan]
... i am happy to combine these things in the sw which requires both types of expertise
16:16:28 [LeeF]
uldis: It's fine to my ears :-)
16:16:43 [ivan]
... i would like to have my technical background to the technical context
16:16:54 [ivan]
sandro: i work at w3c, team contact for the rif working group
16:17:06 [ivan]
... i was co team contact for the owl group
16:17:20 [ivan]
... my interest aligns with a lot of things we have already heard here
16:17:45 [ivan]
agenda 1
16:17:54 [ivan]
zakim, pick agenda 1
16:17:54 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'pick agenda 1', ivan
16:18:06 [ivan]
Topic: f2f review
16:18:18 [ivan]
susie: we had 11 people in total, we made really good progress
16:18:28 [ivan]
... next time more will come, people are still signing on
16:18:36 [ivan]
... but it was important to start
16:18:38 [uldis]
Regrets - Danny Ayers
16:18:45 [ivan]
... Lee kindly wrote the minutes
16:18:52 [LeeF]
Zakim, take up agendum 1
16:18:52 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Overview of the f2f meeting" taken up [from ivan]
16:19:01 [ivan]
... we started off by introduction
16:19:09 [ivan]
... then we moved to the charter
16:19:28 [ivan]
... we just made a recap of the info which is on the web site (which has a link to the charter)
16:19:55 [ivan]
... one highlight is that it is an ig and not a working group, so we can direct the work a bit in a direction we prefer
16:20:09 [ivan]
... we also started a bit later, but we do have a hard stop in february '08
16:20:28 [ivan]
... we are expected to interact with other group based on the charter,
16:20:41 [ivan]
... with sw groups in w3c, but also outsider
16:20:53 [ivan]
... we then moved on to how to makeup sweo
16:21:13 [ivan]
... the participants are expected, formally, to use 20% of their time
16:21:58 [uldis]
there is a lot of echo.
16:22:02 [ivan]
zakim, who is talking?
16:22:12 [Zakim]
ivan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: kidehen (14%), uldi (34%), martin (36%), Karen (4%), Sandro (50%)
16:22:56 [ivan]
susie: but lot of work will be within the framework of a task force
16:23:14 [ivan]
... each tf would last 2-3 months, 5-6 people, so it is a flexible framework
16:23:33 [ivan]
... sweo is made up from members, plus some invited expert (like Danny Ayers)
16:23:41 [ivan]
... we also discussed communication
16:23:57 [ivan]
... we have a wiki that is available for the sweo, we will use email,
16:24:21 [ivan]
... we will use the same email for all the task forces, important to use the right subject lines,
16:24:36 [uldis]
LeeF: :)
16:24:36 [ivan]
... eg, [TASKFORCENAME] bla bla bla
16:25:04 [ivan]
susie: ivan gave an overview on where we are with SW technologies on where we are
16:25:14 [ivan]
... karen gave an overview on messaging
16:25:22 [ivan]
... then we had some brainstorming sessions
16:25:42 [uldis]
focus both on enterprise and web dev. community
16:25:47 [ivan]
... one of the areas was that people felt that we have to focus both on entreprises and the web developers' communities
16:26:07 [ivan]
... the latter involve hackers, open source community, web2.0 developers, etc
16:26:26 [ivan]
... we also said that one of the issue is to understand where we are with messaging
16:26:57 [ivan]
... so we have to understand what the market feel about the market, identify the messaging that are out there, and what work and not
16:27:10 [ivan]
... we also need to understand what resources are available
16:27:29 [ivan]
... we also have to encourage people to sign up for sweo (that actually happened...)
16:27:55 [ivan]
.. a secondary item is to have messages in particular audiences, application areas
16:28:03 [ivan]
... this begins to form a matrix
16:28:24 [ivan]
... we cannot create colletarals for all matrix cells, but we can find out where the most value is
16:28:42 [ivan]
... and we can also concentrate on areas that is in line with peoples' experiences
16:29:03 [ivan]
... the third area is to incorporate sw in undergraduate and graduate training
16:29:20 [ivan]
... this is an area that is not top priority for us
16:29:33 [ivan]
susie: on the second day we did work around identification of core messaging
16:29:45 [ivan]
... we wanted to understand what the community feels
16:30:14 [ivan]
... one group is the web developers' communtiy; we have good contacts in that community but we may not know exactly how they feel
16:30:25 [ivan]
... we identified a number of individuals we would contact
16:30:39 [ivan]
... on the entreprise level we 3 approaches
16:30:45 [ivan]
... (1) analysts
16:31:09 [ivan]
... (2) a questionnaire to vendors to understand why they have decided to enter this market
16:31:42 [ivan]
... (3) a questionnaire to entreprises who may or may not use sw technologies, we have to understand wy not
16:32:28 [ivan]
s/wy/why/
16:32:31 [Susie]
http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/TaskForces/CoreMessaging
16:32:58 [ivan]
(the questionnaires' text)
16:35:34 [ivan]
sandro: i was wondering whether this would be public, anonymous, or confidential?
16:36:02 [ivan]
susie: i was planning to do these by email, ie, we would know where the answers come from, but the compilation would be anonymized
16:36:29 [Zakim]
-LeeF
16:37:06 [ivan]
q?
16:37:11 [ivan]
ack sandro
16:37:24 [ivan]
kingsley: re the targetting the audiences
16:37:43 [ivan]
... if we start with the web developers' side, we need a bridge with the web2.0 community
16:37:58 [ivan]
... there is a tendency to see these two as mutually exclusive
16:38:01 [martind]
this might be relevant to some questions of the mentioned questionnaire: http://tinyurl.com/yl7aq7 or direct to PDF: http://tinyurl.com/ybra6h (courtesy of neon-project.org)
16:38:12 [ivan]
... it is important to show how complimentary they are
16:38:24 [ivan]
... a typical example being the blogosphere
16:38:52 [ivan]
... we have to find the key players the of the web2.0 crowd and the entreprise web2.0
16:38:57 [ivan]
... there is even office 2.0
16:39:13 [ivan]
... these latter two take the web2.0 to the entreprise
16:39:28 [ivan]
... we have to get them understand what the sw is doing
16:41:04 [Karen]
Karen has joined #sweo
16:41:22 [ivan]
ivan: we tried to identify the persons, but we were not sure they are the right names
16:41:31 [uldis]
may we set up a wiki page to list key players of the web dev community and web 2.0 and add to it?
16:41:56 [uldis]
... whom we should contact
16:43:14 [ivan]
susie: during the meeting we felt we were not good enough in identifying the names
16:43:31 [ivan]
... please by next week collect these names
16:43:48 [ivan]
kingsley: we do not have a list name on the wiki
16:44:13 [Karen]
+1 names should be internal to group
16:45:01 [uldis]
it is possible to use ACL on a wiki and make pages visible to IG members only
16:45:32 [uldis]
sandro can provide assistance in this
16:45:48 [ivan]
action: ivan to set up a ig confidential part of the wiki
16:46:52 [ivan]
action: kingsley collect names appropriate for the web2.0 world
16:48:47 [ivan]
susie: one of the action item was that I would send the questionnaire's text to the group
16:48:53 [ivan]
... i will do that
16:49:02 [ivan]
... I will have to contact the comm team of w3c on that
16:49:24 [LeeF]
zakim, code?
16:49:24 [Zakim]
the conference code is 7936 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), LeeF
16:49:25 [ivan]
... another action item was that ivan to collect the contacts for companies, that is done
16:49:47 [ivan]
... yet another action item is to collect the resources that we already have
16:49:53 [Zakim]
+LeeF
16:49:55 [ivan]
... eg, frank chum will look for more books
16:50:02 [Zakim]
This conference is scheduled to end in 10 minutes; all ports must be freed
16:50:07 [ivan]
... wing will look at the tools' list to send
16:50:23 [ivan]
ack sandro
16:51:05 [ivan]
sandro: if somebody think the wording should be different, should that person modify it on the wiki, or rather on the mailing
16:51:34 [ivan]
susie: the wiki culture would require that people could modify directly
16:51:45 [ivan]
... but if there are major changes, check with the group
16:51:59 [ivan]
susie: actually, one more comment on the wiki
16:52:22 [ivan]
... on the list a lot of people have good ideas on what to do and where to go, but I am a bit afraid that these ideas would get lost
16:52:36 [ivan]
... so I started a 'wild idea' part on the wiki, for general thoughts
16:53:01 [Susie]
http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/WildIdeas
16:53:07 [ivan]
... i kept the thoughts short and added a name to it
16:53:10 [ivan]
q?
16:53:13 [Karen]
q+
16:53:23 [ivan]
ack Karen
16:53:49 [ivan]
karen: i do have some resources when I was working in market research I could probably share
16:54:01 [ivan]
... but I would like to keep it for the group
16:54:20 [uldis]
zakim, q+
16:54:20 [Zakim]
I see susie, uldis on the speaker queue
16:55:01 [Zakim]
This conference is scheduled to end in 5 minutes; all ports must be freed
16:55:52 [ivan]
ack susie
16:56:22 [ivan]
uldis: it would be group for the ig if we could use sw technologies for our own work
16:56:35 [ivan]
... although i cannot name any particular at this point
16:56:41 [ivan]
... but we could at some point
16:56:59 [ivan]
susie: one of the action items was that wing would look at semantics media wiki
16:57:06 [ivan]
... if people have additional ideas
16:57:36 [ivan]
uldis: adding wikis with blogging, for example
16:58:01 [Zakim]
This conference is scheduled to end in 2 minutes; all ports must be freed
16:58:27 [ivan]
kingsley: a lot of our technology is solved by us, plus integration, but the problem is member independence
16:59:05 [Zakim]
This conference is scheduled to end in 1 minute; all ports must be freed
16:59:26 [ivan]
... we have to find a set of clear guidelines on what we can accept and use
17:00:01 [Zakim]
This conference is scheduled to end now; all ports must be freed immediately
17:00:06 [Zakim]
The time reserved for this conference has been exceeded. 17 ports must be freed
17:00:31 [LeeF]
yes
17:00:36 [Zakim]
-uldi
17:00:37 [Zakim]
-davidr
17:00:37 [Zakim]
-orri
17:00:38 [Zakim]
-kidehen
17:00:39 [Zakim]
-Sandro
17:00:41 [Zakim]
-Karen
17:00:42 [davidr]
davidr has left #sweo
17:00:43 [Zakim]
-susie
17:00:45 [Zakim]
-ina
17:00:47 [Zakim]
-wing
17:01:17 [uldis]
agree to kidehen re. observing caution re. particular products
17:02:12 [uldis]
first thing we can start with is using already accepted SW formats
17:02:26 [uldis]
like FOAF which is already used for participants list
17:02:46 [uldis]
uldis has left #sweo
17:07:50 [Zakim]
-martin
17:07:51 [Zakim]
-LeeF
17:08:01 [ivan]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:08:01 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/11/22-sweo-minutes.html ivan
17:10:10 [ivan]
zakim, bye
17:10:10 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were +1.781.273.aaaa, +1.617.970.aabb, Ivan, kidehen, Karen, wing, susie, LeeF, uldi, ina, martin, davidr, +31.30.273.aacc, orri, Sandro
17:10:10 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #sweo
17:24:00 [kidehen]
kidehen has left #sweo
17:32:25 [martind]
martind has left #SWEO
18:06:23 [Karen]
Karen has joined #sweo